1 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 17 09:29:25 2006
   2 
   3 Aug 17 09:29:25 <pbor>	pingety ping
   4 Aug 17 09:46:46 <pbor>	(it's about the soc mail paolo sent... he told me official soc ends Aug 21)
   5 Aug 17 09:47:56 <pbor>	I'd like to speak frankly with you... which is youe point of view on this gsv soc thing?
   6 Aug 17 09:48:26 <pbor>	[1] it still needs work, but you had some stuff preventing you to work on it
   7 Aug 17 09:48:46 <pbor>	[2] you are blocked waiting feedback from paolo
   8 Aug 17 09:49:32 <pbor>	[3] you gave up because you think gsv2 is crap that will never work and you will not use it in medit anyway
   9 Aug 17 09:49:46 <pbor>	[4] None of the above
  10 Aug 17 12:20:08 <muntyan>	hi there
  11 Aug 17 12:20:12 <muntyan>	still here?
  12 Aug 17 12:21:27 <pbor>	hey muntyan
  13 Aug 17 12:21:29 <pbor>	yes
  14 Aug 17 12:21:43 <muntyan>	so, serious talk, huh?
  15 Aug 17 12:22:12 <pbor>	well, I'd like to have a clear understanding of how are things
  16 Aug 17 12:23:06 <muntyan>	all right, so, [1] and [2]
  17 Aug 17 12:23:14 <muntyan>	[1] before now, [2] now
  18 Aug 17 12:23:24 <muntyan>	oops, vice versa
  19 Aug 17 12:23:42 <muntyan>	first, about highlighting
  20 Aug 17 12:24:28 <muntyan>	it basically works, as it worked in the beginning. i.e. it needs to be tested in something real. without that it's pointless to try to fix it up, things like responsiveness, for instance
  21 Aug 17 12:24:36 <muntyan>	e.g. see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348289
  22 Aug 17 12:24:56 <muntyan>	about [3], no!
  23 Aug 17 12:25:07 <muntyan>	i put too much blood into this to throw it away
  24 Aug 17 12:25:13 <muntyan>	i actually like the regex thing
  25 Aug 17 12:25:36 <muntyan>	i can't put it into medit because i need to get a release first
  26 Aug 17 12:25:42 <muntyan>	now, about whole thing
  27 Aug 17 12:25:56 <muntyan>	it pretty much ended up being a work on highlighting
  28 Aug 17 12:25:58 <muntyan>	it sucks
  29 Aug 17 12:26:12 <muntyan>	though i want to get printing too
  30 Aug 17 12:26:33 <muntyan>	highlighting and printing are the most important things, which can actually be done in meantime
  31 Aug 17 12:26:49 <pbor>	ok, awesome
  32 Aug 17 12:27:13 <muntyan>	exactly that word, "awesome" ;)
  33 Aug 17 12:27:24 <pbor>	I was actually scared of [3] becuase your commit pattern go like this
  34 Aug 17 12:27:39 <pbor>	100 commits in non stop 48 hours
  35 Aug 17 12:27:46 <pbor>	no commits in 15 days
  36 Aug 17 12:27:47 <pbor>	:)
  37 Aug 17 12:27:50 <muntyan>	yeah
  38 Aug 17 12:28:11 <muntyan>	it was like, i did everything i could with test-widget
  39 Aug 17 12:28:22 <muntyan>	there is no point in polishing things now
  40 Aug 17 12:28:34 <pbor>	ok
  41 Aug 17 12:28:44 <muntyan>	there is no point in rewriting sloppy parts of code (e.g. update_syntax) because it's not clear if it's really gonna stay as it is
  42 Aug 17 12:29:01 <muntyan>	i'm basically stuck with this highlighting thing
  43 Aug 17 12:29:07 <pbor>	and yes, I know it sucks that the project turned out to be redo hl, but...
  44 Aug 17 12:29:19 <muntyan>	no feedback from outside, and i can't to use it here because of other things
  45 Aug 17 12:29:30 <pbor>	ok
  46 Aug 17 12:29:52 <pbor>	so we need to get paolo to provide proper feedback on the hl work
  47 Aug 17 12:30:00 <muntyan>	absolutely
  48 Aug 17 12:30:31 <pbor>	is the theming part done?
  49 Aug 17 12:30:33 <muntyan>	off-topic: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347569
  50 Aug 17 12:30:41 <muntyan>	http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347568
  51 Aug 17 12:30:45 <muntyan>	http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=347567
  52 Aug 17 12:30:53 <muntyan>	theming part - yes and no
  53 Aug 17 12:31:02 <muntyan>	it does work, i use kde styles with test-widget
  54 Aug 17 12:31:17 <muntyan>	but there is about zero api since i have no idea what api is needed
  55 Aug 17 12:31:24 <pbor>	ok
  56 Aug 17 12:32:04 <muntyan>	http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340092 - this is related to highlighting
  57 Aug 17 12:32:21 <muntyan>	i wanted to do some trickery about responsiveness, but it all went to this bug
  58 Aug 17 12:32:27 <muntyan>	since *i* was doing it :)
  59 Aug 17 12:32:28 <pbor>	what about givinga shot at adapting your undo stuff? that was one of the orthogonal parts of the possible gsv2 enanchements
  60 Aug 17 12:32:44 <muntyan>	i am all for this, of course
  61 Aug 17 12:32:55 <muntyan>	but i need heavy feedback and heavy discussions
  62 Aug 17 12:33:04 <muntyan>	my undo code uses lot of in-buffer stuff
  63 Aug 17 12:33:06 <pbor>	about those printing bugs: I agree that it sucks.
  64 Aug 17 12:33:19 <muntyan>	err, the buffer does lot of fancy stuff about undo
  65 Aug 17 12:33:26 <muntyan>	like interactive-not-interactive
  66 Aug 17 12:33:27 <pbor>	ok
  67 Aug 17 12:33:33 <muntyan>	and i still didn't get it right
  68 Aug 17 12:33:47 <muntyan>	the UndoManager thing itself is easy, i guess, but, you know :)
  69 Aug 17 12:33:54 <pbor>	yeah
  70 Aug 17 12:35:16 <pbor>	ok, if you feel like replying to paolo's mail with all your doubts/questions/bugzilla pointers etc I think it would help
  71 Aug 17 12:35:47 <muntyan>	i don't feel like doing that :)
  72 Aug 17 12:35:50 <muntyan>	but i guess i have to
  73 Aug 17 12:35:55 <pbor>	yeah
  74 Aug 17 12:36:06 <pbor>	otherwise it'll get stuck forever
  75 Aug 17 12:36:32 <pbor>	and it will be great to take advantage of the fact that paolo is not so busy right now
  76 Aug 17 12:37:09 <muntyan>	he's not?
  77 Aug 17 12:38:05 <pbor>	he just came back from the holydays and according to his mail he said he wants to work on gnome stuff for some days
  78 Aug 17 12:38:24 <pbor>	well s/gnome/gsv&gedit
  79 Aug 17 12:39:20 <muntyan>	it's cool
  80 Aug 17 12:42:45 <muntyan>	err, about printing
  81 Aug 17 12:42:54 <muntyan>	those bugs, are they fine for gedit?
  82 Aug 17 12:43:04 <pbor>	no, they suck
  83 Aug 17 12:43:30 <pbor>	as it suck the whole preview business
  84 Aug 17 12:43:43 <pbor>	and the fact that you can't specify line ranges
  85 Aug 17 12:44:07 <pbor>	I haven't really looked into the details yet
  86 Aug 17 12:44:26 <muntyan>	okay, so it's not of top priority for gtksourceview?
  87 Aug 17 12:44:49 <muntyan>	i.e. with these bugs and preview business, gedit is not going to use gtk printing?
  88 Aug 17 12:45:18 <pbor>	since it basically looked clear that as of now it wasn't going to cut it we knew that we couldn't get in gedit 2.16 I really haven't thought about it much...
  89 Aug 17 12:45:35 <pbor>	well, I have no idea
  90 Aug 17 12:45:47 <pbor>	sticking with gnomeprint is not an option either
  91 Aug 17 12:45:49 <muntyan>	maybe you could add comment on those bugs though
  92 Aug 17 12:46:08 <muntyan>	it'd increase probability of fix
  93 Aug 17 12:46:19 <pbor>	I can comment
  94 Aug 17 12:46:30 <muntyan>	"gedit can't use gtk printing because it sucks" is much stronger argument than "muntyan can't use it"
  95 Aug 17 12:46:31 <pbor>	but I don't like "me too" comment
  96 Aug 17 12:46:34 <muntyan>	:)
  97 Aug 17 12:46:48 <pbor>	so I'll CC myself and add something where I have something to say
  98 Aug 17 12:46:52 <muntyan>	well, "me too" is stupid, but
  99 Aug 17 12:46:59 <muntyan>	they need to get to know printing sucks
 100 Aug 17 12:47:17 <muntyan>	it's really stupid that there was such a rush before release, and then it stopped
 101 Aug 17 12:47:26 <muntyan>	"because it's good enough" (?)
 102 Aug 17 12:47:39 <pbor>	yes, but we already pointed it out i part on the gtk-devel thread
 103 Aug 17 12:47:52 <muntyan>	not really
 104 Aug 17 12:47:59 <muntyan>	you were talking about design, preview and stuff
 105 Aug 17 12:48:11 <muntyan>	and since macosx does what gtk does, nobody cares ;)
 106 Aug 17 12:48:20 <pbor>	yes, but it was clear that the whole printing stuff was rushed
 107 Aug 17 12:48:22 <muntyan>	but bugs which are silly bugs should be fixed
 108 Aug 17 12:48:44 <pbor>	yeah
 109 Aug 17 12:48:53 <pbor>	I agree
 110 Aug 17 12:49:05 <muntyan>	you will be forced to use gtk printing anyway, right?
 111 Aug 17 12:49:13 <muntyan>	by god, or devil, or whoever
 112 Aug 17 12:49:23 <pbor>	yes I guess :/
 113 Aug 17 12:49:40 <pbor>	unless we want to maintain a separate printing stack ourselves
 114 Aug 17 12:49:59 <muntyan>	what do gnomeprint guys thing? do they give up on the lib?
 115 Aug 17 12:50:04 <muntyan>	are there gnomeprint guys at all?
 116 Aug 17 12:50:13 <pbor>	no, not really
 117 Aug 17 12:50:29 <pbor>	it's pretty much abandoned
 118 Aug 17 12:50:50 <pbor>	last maintainer was jody of gnumeric fame
 119 Aug 17 12:51:11 <pbor>	but now novell moved him to work on OO calc :/
 120 Aug 17 12:51:37 <muntyan>	freaking evil corporations
 121 Aug 17 12:51:44 <muntyan>	and the most evil is redhat
 122 Aug 17 12:52:00 <muntyan>	well, i'll try to write a nice letter
 123 Aug 17 12:52:09 <pbor>	ok, thanks
 124 Aug 17 12:52:18 <muntyan>	you are welcome :)
 125 Aug 17 12:52:40 <pbor>	bring up also the printing stuff in the mail
 126 Aug 17 12:52:49 <pbor>	so we see what paolo thinks
 127 Aug 17 12:53:08 <muntyan>	okay
 128 Aug 17 12:53:16 <pbor>	I am not even sure it makes sense to have it in sourceview at all at this point
 129 Aug 17 12:55:03 *	muntyan would love to move it to gtksourceview :)
 130 Aug 17 12:55:24 <muntyan>	it would make sense only as part of general move to new gtk stuff
 131 Aug 17 12:55:28 <muntyan>	i guess
 132 Aug 17 12:55:41 <muntyan>	i.e. if gtksourceview is going to use printing eventually, then why not?
 133 Aug 17 12:55:49 <muntyan>	i am doing printing anyway
 134 Aug 17 12:56:01 <muntyan>	s/to use printing/to use gtk printing/
 135 Aug 17 13:02:45 <pbor>	well, I'd prefer it to move to gtktextview :P
 136 Aug 17 13:03:06 <pbor>	anyway yes, I think the plan is to have it in sourceview
 137 Aug 17 13:03:52 <muntyan>	having it in gtk would be cool, indeed
 138 Aug 17 13:04:03 <muntyan>	but i am not going to advocate it
 139 Aug 17 13:04:10 <muntyan>	i have enough of undo :)
 140 Aug 17 13:05:25 <pbor>	hehe