1 16:00:12 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:00:12 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Dec 12 16:00:12 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:00:12 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:00:20 <API> #topic 5-min waiting time
   5 16:00:45 <API> wow, a big party, just joanie and tota11y around
   6 16:00:49 <API> tota11y party!!
   7 16:00:49 <tota11y> API: Error: "party!!" is not a valid command.
   8 16:02:05 * clown waves to the crowd of two.
   9 16:02:33 <API> of finally
  10 16:02:35 <API> someone else
  11 16:02:47 <API> totally don't want to party
  12 16:02:57 <API> tota11y, do you want to party?
  13 16:02:57 <tota11y> API: Error: "do" is not a valid command.
  14 16:03:02 <API> yo see?
  15 16:05:25 <API> well, is meeting time
  16 16:05:30 <API> and just tree people
  17 16:05:32 <API> *three
  18 16:06:10 <API> not sure if we should cancel this one
  19 16:06:15 <API> joanie, clown opinions?
  20 16:06:45 <clown> I have nothing of great importance to say today, so I could skip it.
  21 16:07:10 * clown looks over ongoing action items.
  22 16:08:03 <joanie> I'm sick, I'm just coming out of the webkit hackfest, I have an all-day meeting tomorrow, etc.
  23 16:08:07 <joanie> so I could totally skip
  24 16:10:21 <API> well, three people appeared
  25 16:10:30 <API> so I think that now we have enough people for the meeting
  26 16:10:33 <API> so lets start
  27 16:11:04 <API> agenda is showing dec5, but in any case the topics are the same
  28 16:11:07 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.12
  29 16:11:30 <API> #info API sent a proposal about some API changes on ATK in order to fix the problem
  30 16:11:40 <API> #info of gnome-shell not accessible at all under Wayland
  31 16:11:52 <API> #info probably it was too thick, as no answers at all
  32 16:12:29 <API> #action API will create bugs and patches, hoping that gtk, clutter and gnome-shell developers would be more active looking at patches
  33 16:12:50 <API> #info API sent some mails to the wayland list, this time small mails
  34 16:12:59 <API> #info this time it seems that there are real discussions
  35 16:13:11 <API> #action API will follow up with the discussion
  36 16:13:17 <mgorse> Thanks for letting me know. I guess I should subscribe there.
  37 16:13:45 <API> mgorse, well, I mentioned that some weeks ago
  38 16:13:52 <API> my original mail was sent weeks ago
  39 16:13:56 <API> mgorse, http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/
  40 16:14:01 * API resuming his summary
  41 16:14:34 <API> #info API attended this week webkitgtk hackfest, due feedback there, he added some new stuff on ATK, that would be available for 3.12
  42 16:14:37 <API> done
  43 16:15:13 <jjmarin> yes, it is an important issue, or GNOME 3.12 will be a big failure. Thanks API for caring on this :-)
  44 16:15:18 <clown> "thick"?  do you mean too many details?  Creating bugs/patches is a good way to focus in on specific problems — good idea.
  45 16:15:31 <API> clown, yes, details and long
  46 16:15:36 <mgorse> Yeah. Thanks for sending the email, anyway
  47 16:15:58 <API> anyway, anyone else want to share 3.12 stuff?
  48 16:18:15 <API> well, three minutes and nobody talked
  49 16:18:24 <API> so I think that I will move to next topic
  50 16:18:36 <API> #topic W3C updates
  51 16:18:42 <API> clown?
  52 16:18:45 * clown gathers his thoughts.
  53 16:19:32 <clown> #info the formal request to publsih version 1.0 of the ARIA User Agent Implementation Guide was made this last Mon:
  54 16:19:40 <clown> #info http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Dec/0009.html
  55 16:20:45 <clown> #info the timeline is now:  final "candidate recommendation" status by Jan 17, 2014; "proposed recommendation" status by Jan 28, 2014, and all of ARIA 1.0  as "recommendation" in time for CSUN (Mar?).
  56 16:21:50 <clown> #info Also, there is a planned face to face meeting to kick off ARIA 1.1 work late in January:  23 − 25th in Toronto:
  57 16:21:59 <clown> #info http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Dec/0024.html
  58 16:22:05 <clown> done.  questions?
  59 16:22:25 <API> last week
  60 16:22:29 <API> if my memory serves me
  61 16:22:43 <API> I think that we mentioned something about 1.1
  62 16:22:59 <API> something about some of the stuff that joanie reviewed to be included there
  63 16:23:30 <API> so I think that I don't get the fully view here
  64 16:24:00 <API> so 1.0 will be finished on january, but approved as recommendation for CSUN
  65 16:24:01 <clown> I think you are talking about when her suggested changes to the role mappings will be included.
  66 16:24:07 <API> but at the same time 1.1 will be started on Jan
  67 16:24:29 <clown> Yes, 1.1 will have "draft" status in Jan.
  68 16:24:32 <API> so that means that the committe will work on extend 1.0 and extend 1.1 since january at the same time?
  69 16:24:47 <clown> Meaning all the stake holders will debate the changes to the spec.
  70 16:25:18 <API> well, is just probably because I'm too used to "finish one version"
  71 16:25:25 <API> and if we are working on the following
  72 16:25:32 <API> just being working on the following
  73 16:25:50 <API> just wanted to confirm that the committee could be doing changes on different versions at the same time
  74 16:25:52 <clown> I''m not sure what you mean by "extend".  As of now, 1.0 is locked and frozen forever, unless someone higher up on W3C, or one of its members objects strongly to something in there.
  75 16:26:00 <API> ah ok
  76 16:26:11 <API> well, as you put three different deadlines for 1.0
  77 16:26:23 <API> I assumed that that would mean that some changes could occur on it
  78 16:26:53 <clown> The number of deadlines has to do with the "red tape" of publishing a spec that the W3C fully endorses.
  79 16:27:23 <clown> Regarding changes:  there are two types.
  80 16:27:40 <clown> Editorial changes (better language, better spelling, etc.) can be made at any time.
  81 16:28:52 <clown> Substantive changes, or "normative" changes, where some aspect of the specification is changed are another type of change.
  82 16:29:10 <clown> At this point, if there are any substantive changes, the document reverts back to "working draft" status, and must go back to "last call" for comments, which is what we just went through last month.
  83 16:29:49 <clown> That will delay the progress to "recommendation" upwards of six months from now.
  84 16:30:09 <clown> In other words, substantive changes are deadly for a 1.0 release as this point of the process.
  85 16:30:28 <API> ok, thanks for the explanation
  86 16:30:50 <API> 1.0 frozen as a wisdom source, grammar typos can be still corrected
  87 16:30:57 <clown> That's why we asked the gnome a11y group that, while we acknowledge that there at better roles not in ATK/AT-SPI, we won't change until 1.1
  88 16:31:19 <clown> *now in ATK/AT-SPI.
  89 16:31:39 <API> ok
  90 16:31:51 <API> so, more questions, doubts, comments?
  91 16:32:03 <jjmarin> nop
  92 16:32:20 <clown> in summary, the process now is for "higher ups" in the W3C to do a last double check.
  93 16:32:39 <API> ok
  94 16:32:49 <jjmarin> they are waiting for pressing the publish button :-)
  95 16:32:58 <clown> right jjmarin.
  96 16:33:07 <API> red button
  97 16:33:14 <API> anyway, not still in misc time
  98 16:33:15 <jjmarin> :-)
  99 16:33:21 <API> ok if I move to next topic?
 100 16:33:33 <clown> also, there are some sections in the UAIG currently marked "at risk", because we don't have 2 implementations yet.
 101 16:34:08 <clown> But, we might by Jan 17.  If not, those section will be removed, and can be removed because we warned the "higher ups" of the problem.
 102 16:34:40 <API> ok
 103 16:35:17 <clown> i'm done now.
 104 16:35:29 <API> ok
 105 16:35:32 <API> so moving
 106 16:35:43 <API> #topic Marketing
 107 16:35:47 <API> jjmarin, ?
 108 16:35:47 <jjmarin> #info No news from the marketing front this week
 109 16:35:52 <jjmarin> :-)
 110 16:36:21 <API> then moving again
 111 16:36:30 <jjmarin> ok
 112 16:36:33 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
 113 16:36:40 <API> so something not scheduled to mention?
 114 16:37:02 <jjmarin> API, do you mind to be invited in a podcast ?
 115 16:37:59 <API> uh
 116 16:38:09 <API> could you elaborate that?
 117 16:38:23 <jjmarin> just to tald about a11y, gnome, webkit, igalia
 118 16:39:12 <jjmarin> I'm talking about a Spanish podcast about linux
 119 16:39:23 <API> but is a webpage, gnome hispano?
 120 16:39:39 <jjmarin> http://www.daboblog.com/2013/11/22/daboblog-podcast-kernel-panic-numero-41/
 121 16:40:12 <jjmarin> they talked about Debian temporary decision and I reply in the comments
 122 16:40:47 <jjmarin> This is the only Linux podcast I know in Spanish
 123 16:40:48 <API> well, ok, I guess that I could do it
 124 16:40:59 <API> lets talk about the details later off-meeting
 125 16:41:04 * clown likes jjmarin's avatar.
 126 16:41:08 <jjmarin> ok
 127 16:41:11 <jjmarin> :-)
 128 16:41:42 <API> so having said so
 129 16:41:47 <API> more miscellaneous stuff?
 130 16:43:11 <jjmarin> Have the Webkit haskfest finished, or are you and joanie still in the after hackfest  ?
 131 16:43:23 <clown> good question.
 132 16:43:26 <clown> Any meeting notes?
 133 16:43:32 <clown> blogs?
 134 16:44:08 <jjmarin> I usually note the post about the hackfest here https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/WebKitGTK2013
 135 16:44:21 <API> well, the hackfest finished yesterday
 136 16:44:24 <API> hmm
 137 16:44:32 <API> probably a topic for that would be relevant
 138 16:44:34 <API> I will do it now
 139 16:44:45 <API> #info This week was webkitgtk hackfest
 140 16:45:07 <API> #info this year people working on a11y stuff were as usually joannmarie, Mario Sanchez and Alejandro Piñeiro
 141 16:45:32 <API> #info Joanmarie working on improving the testing/layout testing, giving feedback to Mario and others
 142 16:45:57 <API> #info Mario was working on getting more notifications when an accessible child appear/disapper and also improved the role support
 143 16:46:04 <API> #info no more ROLE_UNKNOWN!!
 144 16:46:40 <API> #info API was the ATK guy, adding some stuff on ATK and also talking about the new stuff on ATK that could be added to WebkitGTK
 145 16:46:48 <API> and I think that this is enough
 146 16:46:53 <API> so, questions, doubts?
 147 16:47:02 <clown> Does "no more ROLE_UNKNOWN" mean (1) ROLE_UNKNOWN is deprecated in ATK and AT-SPI or (2) WebKitGTK will NOT use ROLE_UNKNOWN anywhere?
 148 16:47:16 <API> clown, means that in several places of webkitgtk
 149 16:47:20 <API> role_unknown was used
 150 16:47:25 <API> role_unknown is not deprecated
 151 16:47:27 <API> but in general
 152 16:47:40 <API> a browser should know what they have in hands
 153 16:48:00 <API> so now, all objects has a role with meaning
 154 16:48:42 <API> dududa
 155 16:48:42 <clown> thanks for the explanation, API.
 156 16:48:48 <API> clown, you are welcome
 157 16:48:56 <API> so, more questions or doubts?
 158 16:49:04 <clown> dududa mapst to ROLE_UNKNOWN  :-)
 159 16:49:16 <jjmarin> :-)
 160 16:49:36 <API> I will take that as "no"
 161 16:49:39 <API> .P
 162 16:49:41 <jjmarin> so we're done :-)
 163 16:49:42 <API> so closing meeting
 164 16:49:47 <API> thanks everybody
 165 16:49:49 <clown> thanks API
 166 16:49:51 <API> #endmeeting