1 15:08:29 <joanie> #startmeeting
   2 15:08:29 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Mar 22 15:08:29 2012 UTC.  The chair is joanie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 15:08:29 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 15:08:41 <joanie> #topic Outreach Program for Women
   5 15:09:01 <joanie> #info Last meeting the decision was made to reorganize the OWP a11y team section.
   6 15:09:20 <joanie> #info But the conclusion was to decide during next meeting (which is now this meeting) who would do so.
   7 15:09:37 <joanie> #info Joseph is the one with the project. So how shall we proceed?
   8 15:09:43 * joanie yields floor
   9 15:09:59 <clown> what's the url to the "OWP a11y team section"?
  10 15:10:07 <joanie> lemme look
  11 15:10:37 <joanie> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove/Mentors
  12 15:10:52 * clown looks
  13 15:11:11 <joanie> I am thinking what we want is to emphasize your current project, but leave the generic details there too
  14 15:11:29 <joanie> that way, each year, we can remove specifics and be ready
  15 15:11:42 <clown> yeah, it's kind of a sub-heading of the main 'Accessibility" heading.
  16 15:12:05 * joanie nods
  17 15:12:32 <clown> Interesting that the other headings are "apps" like "Epiphany".  Wherease "Accessibility" covers everthing...
  18 15:12:40 * joanie nods again
  19 15:12:53 <joanie> although there's Getting things GNOME!
  20 15:12:59 <joanie> oops that's an app
  21 15:13:07 <joanie> anyhoo
  22 15:13:30 <clown> maybe "module" is better than "app"
  23 15:13:31 <joanie> Joseph, since this is your project and you'd be the mentor
  24 15:13:50 <joanie> would you be willing to update the page to reflect your project?
  25 15:14:31 <clown> How about this:  I'd add a bullet that says:  Projects under the a11y category include:
  26 15:14:43 <clown> and then a sub-heading/link to my project.
  27 15:14:45 <mgorse> Ugh. Sorry for being late--I forgot all about the meeting.
  28 15:15:00 <clown> That way, if there are any others the come up, they can be added too.
  29 15:15:02 <joanie> mgorse: no worries. we started with the OWP since clown is doing that.
  30 15:15:13 <joanie> clown: how about a slight tweak
  31 15:15:27 <joanie> something that reflects active owp/gsoc possibilities
  32 15:15:28 <clown> yes?
  33 15:15:40 <joanie> because the projects include orca and at-spi and accerciser and ....
  34 15:16:02 <joanie> and as discussed a couple of meetings ago, some of those might not be appropriate for an owp candidate
  35 15:16:59 <clown> so, what would "reflect active owp/gsoc possibilities"?
  36 15:17:17 <joanie> hmmmm
  37 15:17:30 <clown> any suggested verbiage would be appreciated.
  38 15:17:34 <joanie> yeah
  39 15:17:36 <joanie> it's not easy
  40 15:17:38 <joanie> give me a sec
  41 15:18:04 <joanie> or five
  42 15:18:05 <joanie> lol
  43 15:18:17 <joanie> "current opportunities to contribute"?
  44 15:18:24 <clown> I'll give you 5 min, if you want :-)
  45 15:18:26 <joanie> or something to that effect
  46 15:18:29 <joanie> heh
  47 15:18:59 * clown mulls that over
  48 15:19:14 <joanie> or whatever distinguishes generic a11y
  49 15:19:19 <joanie> and all a11y projects
  50 15:19:24 <joanie> from "thing we can mentor now"
  51 15:20:16 <joanie> anyhoo, we don't need the language *right now*
  52 15:20:29 <joanie> so can we task you clown with this and then sort it out?
  53 15:20:48 <clown> Yeah, okay.  I'll take the action (since it sounds like a few bullets of text), and do it by end of week.
  54 15:20:56 <joanie> yay! thanks!!
  55 15:21:26 <joanie> #action Joseph will update the a11y team section of the OPW/GSOC.
  56 15:21:31 <joanie> moving on?
  57 15:21:33 * clown yah beat me
  58 15:21:37 <joanie> heh
  59 15:21:55 <joanie> #topic GNOME 3.4 - Are we all set?
  60 15:22:16 <clown> whoops sorry one last isseu on the last topic, if I may.
  61 15:22:38 <joanie> #topic Outreach Program for Women
  62 15:23:27 <clown> the end of the mentoring time period is sometime in August.  I'm away for most fo that month. So,  a little concerned about the mentor suddenly disappearing at the end of it.
  63 15:23:40 <clown> is that a big deal?
  64 15:23:49 <joanie> if we have guidelines to follow, the team can help out
  65 15:24:04 <clown> okay, that's good to know.
  66 15:24:10 <joanie> if we there are a lot of doubts from us about what you'd want/expect, it's a big deal
  67 15:24:20 <joanie> if you give us a plan, it's not a big deal
  68 15:25:14 <clown> actually, since I think most of the work will be with respect to Acceciser, I'll already depend on those developers.
  69 15:25:32 * joanie nods
  70 15:25:33 <clown> but, that's part of the plan, (to be witten).
  71 15:25:38 <joanie> yeah
  72 15:25:47 <clown> okay, that satisfies my last issue.
  73 15:25:48 <joanie> takes a village to raise an intern
  74 15:25:55 <joanie> cool
  75 15:25:59 <joanie> thanks again
  76 15:26:07 <joanie> #topic GNOME 3.4 - Are we all set?
  77 15:26:09 <clown> wlcm
  78 15:26:16 <joanie> #info This is just a quick check to be sure that we're good to go, don't have any surprises, etc.
  79 15:26:34 <joanie> #info as far as Joanie is aware, everything is fine w.r.t. Orca and its users
  80 15:26:43 * joanie yields floor to mgorse
  81 15:26:51 <joanie> how's at-spi2?
  82 15:27:53 <mgorse> There's still a problem with actions according to nagappan. I need to try setting up ldtp on ubuntu to see if I can reproduce it there. If there's an AT-SPI bug, then I don' tknow if fixing that would justify a freeze break or not
  83 15:28:09 <joanie> what sort of problem?
  84 15:28:38 <mgorse> Calling doAction might time out and say that the process is hung, if it brings up a dialog
  85 15:28:56 <joanie> ah
  86 15:29:24 <joanie> LDTP is, of course, really important. But given code freeze, I have to ask.... Does this impact end users with disabilities?
  87 15:30:27 <mgorse> I don't know that it would affect Orca. As I said, if a fix is needed, I'm not sure if it justifies breaking code freeze or not, or if a fix in 2.4.1 would be sufficient
  88 15:30:38 <joanie> well that's what I'm getting at
  89 15:31:00 <joanie> if this turns out to break accessibility for end users of ATs then it might be code-freeze worthy
  90 15:31:19 <mgorse> right
  91 15:31:20 <joanie> if instead it breaks LDTP, I think we owe Naggapan an apology and we don't ask for freeze break
  92 15:31:38 <joanie> so how about this (which I shall info)
  93 15:32:03 <joanie> #info There is a possible issue in AT-SPI2 with actions, according to Nagappan.
  94 15:32:11 <joanie> #info Mike will investigate it.
  95 15:32:36 <mgorse> ok
  96 15:32:36 <joanie> #info We will determine if it is worthy of a code-freeze break request once Mike knows the scope of the problem.
  97 15:32:51 <joanie> anything to add mgorse?
  98 15:33:20 <mgorse> don't think so
  99 15:33:28 <joanie> cool beans. Thanks for the update!
 100 15:33:41 <joanie> clown: you all set w.r.t. 3.4?
 101 15:34:03 <clown> with respect to zoom options dialog:
 102 15:34:12 <clown> #info Joseph wrote the release notes for the zoom options universal access panel
 103 15:34:20 <clown> #info jjmarin incorporated them.
 104 15:34:29 <clown> with respect to brightness/contrast
 105 15:34:42 <clown> #info Joseph uploade patch to GNOME Shell incorporating the effect.
 106 15:35:02 <clown> #info but, it still suffers from a undesired transparency side effect.
 107 15:35:23 <joanie> so this is not breakage in 3.3.92
 108 15:35:24 <clown> #info Joseph is trying to debug, and has traced it back to somewhere inside clutter
 109 15:35:39 <clown> #info and it looks like *all* clutter effects show this problem.
 110 15:36:00 <joanie> oh, so it is breakage in 3.3.92?
 111 15:36:02 <clown> #info Joseph has just finished some demo test code to show the problem just using Clutter
 112 15:36:20 <clown> #info and needs to confirm his test code is valid.
 113 15:36:41 <clown> #info if he does, then he will be contacting ebassi to discuss.
 114 15:36:57 <clown> #info i.e. it's possilbe this is a general bug in clutter.
 115 15:37:05 <clown> (done)
 116 15:37:32 <joanie> so in terms of 3.4 going out the door, and end users: do we have a 3.4 problem and possible need to request freeze break?
 117 15:37:39 <clown> s/possilbe/likely/
 118 15:38:09 <clown> there are two ways to parse that question:
 119 15:38:35 <clown> 1.  is there an a11y issue?  No, it means the effect will not be included in gs-mag for 3.4 (it doesn't work).
 120 15:38:50 <clown> 2.  is there a general clutter effects issue?  Yes.
 121 15:39:10 <joanie> okay, so in light of that....
 122 15:39:10 <clown> does that mean that clutter is not released until the problem is fixed?
 123 15:39:58 <joanie> follow-up question: If the clutter devs get a code freeze break for this issue, what is the likelihood of it breaking something for magnification users?
 124 15:40:50 <joanie> in other words, at this stage in the game, my concern is: Will 3.4 go out the door with a potentially accessibility breakage which we might could fix/prevent now?
 125 15:40:53 <clown> it won't break anything since the current magnifier doesn't do it.  It isn't a regression, It's a lack of a new feature.
 126 15:41:01 <joanie> ok
 127 15:41:03 <clown> or a delay in the release of that feature.
 128 15:41:08 <joanie> that makes it a 3.6 problem
 129 15:41:36 <joanie> (not any less of a problem; merely something we cannot deal with this week or next)
 130 15:41:38 <clown> right.  but, outside a11y, if people are using clutter effect elsewhere, and they make things transparent, that isn't good...
 131 15:41:45 <joanie> deal with == fix in time for release
 132 15:41:58 <joanie> oh, yeah, I get the isn't good bit :)
 133 15:42:11 <joanie> but we have our hands beyond full with just a11y
 134 15:42:37 <clown> on the other, if it turns out that I'm doing something trivially wrong, then maybe the fix is easy, and b/c could be included in 3.4
 135 15:42:49 * clown is ever hopeful
 136 15:42:56 <joanie> :)
 137 15:43:27 <clown> so, any more info's needed here?
 138 15:43:32 <joanie> okay, so anything else from anyone else about 3.4, code freeze, and breakage?
 139 15:43:39 <joanie> clown: I don't think so
 140 15:43:48 * clown yields the conch
 141 15:43:49 <joanie> this was just meant to be a sanity check thing
 142 15:44:02 * joanie hates surprises
 143 15:45:02 <joanie> okay, I'll take the silence to mean it's time to move on
 144 15:45:15 <joanie> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
 145 15:45:31 <joanie> #info Juanjo isn't present and Joanie has not seen any report from him.
 146 15:45:55 <joanie> #info Release notes were drafted by the team, submitted by Juanjo, reworded by Allan Day.
 147 15:46:33 <joanie> #info Joanie has not been following the day-to-day chances of the FoG campaign, but according to www.gnome.org:  Friends of GNOME
 148 15:46:36 <joanie> $10,631 - $9,369 to go
 149 15:46:47 <joanie> I bet that won't get info'ed
 150 15:46:55 <joanie> #info $10,631 - $9,369 to go
 151 15:47:09 <joanie> anything else marketing and fundraising wize?
 152 15:47:13 * joanie yields floor
 153 15:48:34 * joanie assumes that means no
 154 15:48:43 <joanie> #topic Miscellaneous Time
 155 15:48:49 * joanie re-yields floor
 156 15:51:22 <joanie> I knew it would be a short meeting.
 157 15:51:41 <clown> well, off by only 10 min
 158 15:51:51 * joanie raises gavel and looks for fingers
 159 15:52:01 <joanie> #endmeeting