1 14:34:10 <API> #startmeeting
   2 14:34:10 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jun  9 14:34:10 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 14:34:10 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 14:34:22 <API> I see some new people here
   5 14:34:28 <API> so remember, the agenda is on the wiki
   6 14:34:38 <API> you can see the wiki page on the channel topic
   7 14:34:49 <API> so
   8 14:35:05 <API> #topic Results from last week's proposed response to mailing list discussion
   9 14:35:07 <API> hmm
  10 14:35:13 <API> joanie, there is a way to set "subtopics"?
  11 14:35:24 <joanie> I don't recall but I'll look
  12 14:35:27 <joanie> in the mean time
  13 14:35:29 <joanie> don't worry
  14 14:35:30 <API> well, meanwhile
  15 14:35:31 <joanie> move on
  16 14:35:56 <API> #info Piñeiro sent the minutes to release-team mailing list, without no feedback
  17 14:36:29 <API> #info Piñeiro sent a mail to Li, Matthias and Benjamin about gail-to-gtk plans towards 3.2
  18 14:36:41 <API> #info Matthias answered with a plan, good news
  19 14:36:46 <API> #info no answer from Li
  20 14:36:59 <API> so I guess that 1.1 is covered
  21 14:37:02 <API> any question?
  22 14:37:21 <clown> API, can we see the plan from Matthias?
  23 14:37:46 <clown> or, can you summarize?
  24 14:38:32 <API> clown, ok, looking for that mail
  25 14:38:33 <API> a mon
  26 14:38:36 * API looking for
  27 14:38:43 <clown> ok
  28 14:38:45 <aleiva> a bit of info would be fine
  29 14:39:10 <joanie> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-devel/2011-June/msg00009.html
  30 14:39:39 <mgorse> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-devel/2011-June/msg00009.html
  31 14:39:45 <API> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2011-June/msg00018.html
  32 14:39:58 <API> ups you were faster ;)
  33 14:40:02 <API> aleiva, is right
  34 14:40:15 <API> #info Matthias plan can be found here: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2011-June/msg00018.html
  35 14:40:50 <clown> same message, different lists.
  36 14:41:02 <API> clown, yes
  37 14:41:21 <aleiva> ok
  38 14:41:24 <aleiva> thanks
  39 14:41:31 <clown> yes, thank you.
  40 14:42:17 <mgorse> I'm vaguely concerned/unsure about #6 but need to gather my concerns into something coherent and write to the list
  41 14:42:39 <API> mgorse, yes, I also shared my doubts in a answer mail
  42 14:43:05 <API> but in summary, as #6 is the long term item on that plan
  43 14:43:21 <API> lets wait for that
  44 14:44:14 <API> mgorse, my concerned answer here
  45 14:44:17 <API> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2011-June/msg00022.html
  46 14:45:01 <API> #info in general people agrees with most steps of that plan, except #6 that can be controversial, ie: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2011-June/msg00022.html
  47 14:45:34 <API> so, moving to 1.2?
  48 14:46:26 <joanie> please
  49 14:46:35 <API> ok, testing distro
  50 14:46:37 <API> urgh
  51 14:46:40 <API> jhernandez is not here
  52 14:46:46 <API> well, summarizing
  53 14:46:58 <API> on last meeting we conclude that the plan
  54 14:46:59 <aleiva> ok
  55 14:47:04 <API> was contact Crozat and so on
  56 14:47:08 <aleiva> he is here with me
  57 14:47:12 <aleiva> true
  58 14:47:14 <API> but we forgot an action item and responsible
  59 14:47:17 <API> :P
  60 14:47:25 <joanie> API did we?
  61 14:47:26 <API> anyway, along the week he volunteered so
  62 14:47:34 <API> joanie, sorry?
  63 14:47:34 <aleiva> Crozat havent any problem
  64 14:47:51 <API> joanie, Im wrong with my conclusion?
  65 14:48:01 * clown looks up old minutes
  66 14:48:05 <joanie> Perhaps I misunderstood
  67 14:48:14 <aleiva> frederik peters and crozat with our ideas
  68 14:48:24 <aleiva> are ok with...
  69 14:48:25 <joanie> I thought we were going to wait until we heard from the Release Team
  70 14:48:46 <joanie> regardless, no worries
  71 14:48:49 <clown> "With respect to the Accessibility testing distro, the team would like to investigate the possibility of coordinating efforts with Frederic Crozat."
  72 14:49:11 <joanie> would like == should it be blessed by the powers that be ;-)
  73 14:49:14 <API> yes I have that idea, I missed the "wait for release team feedback" point
  74 14:49:14 <API> sorry
  75 14:49:20 <aleiva> joanie: but we got a good response from the two people involved in the building process of gnome iso
  76 14:49:27 <joanie> aleiva: awesome!
  77 14:49:44 <API> well, aleiva could you add a info point here please ;)
  78 14:51:06 <aleiva> #info jhernandez is going to discuss about how to make our iso suggestion
  79 14:51:43 <aleiva> #info jhernandez is discussing with crzat and frederik peters
  80 14:51:50 <aleiva> done
  81 14:52:00 <API> ok thanks
  82 14:52:26 <API> so next issue is "requested mod and new spin from Joseph"
  83 14:52:32 <clown> hi there...
  84 14:52:36 <API> joanie, I feel that Im missing something here
  85 14:52:41 <API> joanie, clown could you explain that?
  86 14:52:45 <clown> sure.
  87 14:53:02 <clown> there is a communication problem between orca and gs-mag on the current spin.
  88 14:53:11 <clown> joanie and I worked together to figure it out.
  89 14:53:25 <clown> I put together a patch to orca, and
  90 14:53:37 <aleiva> clown: about configuration?
  91 14:53:41 <clown> I'd like the patched version to go on another spin.
  92 14:54:01 <clown> alieva, yes, that was the "bug" that was interfering (oddly) with the dbus communication.
  93 14:54:18 <aleiva> #info jhernandez can build a new spin with clown patches
  94 14:54:29 <aleiva> ok
  95 14:54:50 <clown> #info jhernandez has said he wants to test it further
  96 14:54:55 <API> aleiva, it would be good to add some background to that info ;)
  97 14:55:04 <aleiva> like?
  98 14:55:05 <clown> #info specifcally the use of gi repository.
  99 14:55:07 <API> remember that it is for minutes sake
 100 14:55:25 <aleiva> ok
 101 14:55:49 <API> something like: this new spin is required because clown found a problem that was resolved, and has some patches available
 102 14:55:58 <clown> #info more specifically, the use of pygi
 103 14:56:10 <API> clown, is my example correct?
 104 14:56:16 <clown> yup.
 105 14:56:28 <API> #info this new spin is required because clown found a problem that was resolved, and has some patches available
 106 14:56:41 <API> ok, so it seems that the situation was explained and a action was set
 107 14:56:41 <aleiva> #info due to clown request jhernandez can build a new spin to try to fix the problem detcted
 108 14:56:44 <API> anything else?
 109 14:56:46 <aleiva> argh
 110 14:56:59 <aleiva> im in mobile, sorry
 111 14:57:21 <joanie> aleiva: It's okay. I'll clean the minutes up.
 112 14:57:31 <aleiva> joanie: thanks
 113 14:58:25 <API> well, so anything else, can we move?
 114 14:58:50 <aleiva> yes
 115 14:58:56 <clown> yes
 116 14:59:01 <API> ok
 117 14:59:11 <API> #topic Quarterly Reports, Q1
 118 14:59:22 <joanie> lol
 119 14:59:26 <joanie> good to know
 120 14:59:31 * clown thinks they are probably overdue.
 121 14:59:33 <aleiva> nice feature :P
 122 14:59:54 * joanie wonders if she has the floor
 123 14:59:58 <API> hmm, odd, tota11y didn't say anything on the previous topic
 124 15:00:05 <joanie> did not have ops before
 125 15:00:13 <API> joanie, if you want, you have the meeting scepter
 126 15:00:18 <joanie> thanks :-)
 127 15:00:34 <joanie> #info The Powers That Be have decided that quarterlies do matter and must be done
 128 15:00:54 <joanie> #info Joanie and Piñeiro have discussed if there might be a better, more efficient way to get our reports out
 129 15:01:22 <joanie> #info Joanie and Piñeiro came up with the following idea: We provide a skeleton, team fills it in, we summarize. Reports done.
 130 15:01:31 <joanie> #info the template lives here: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/QuarterlyReports/2011/Q1
 131 15:02:02 <joanie> #info Joanie already made a couple of entries, but we need the details from the rest of the team. Assuming, of course, the team agrees with this new approach to quarterlies.
 132 15:02:04 <joanie> (done)
 133 15:02:59 <API> and remember, it is a skeleton
 134 15:03:06 <API> so if you feel that something is missing
 135 15:03:07 <API> add it
 136 15:03:10 <API> after all
 137 15:03:10 <API> we
 138 15:03:16 * API in fact joanie ...
 139 15:03:21 <API> would require to post-edit it
 140 15:03:32 <joanie> ;-)
 141 15:04:14 <API> so, joanie made a good exposition
 142 15:04:22 <API> questions, doubts, blabla?
 143 15:04:55 <joanie> assuming not....
 144 15:05:19 <joanie> #action The team needs to fill out the skeleton quarterly report available at https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/QuarterlyReports/2011/Q1
 145 15:05:26 <clown> deadline?
 146 15:05:35 <joanie> clown: excellent question
 147 15:05:42 <clown> why, thank you.
 148 15:05:57 <joanie> I shall look, but in the meantime note that the Board assigned an action item to someone to hunt us all down
 149 15:06:00 <joanie> so they want them now
 150 15:06:11 * clown looks warily over his shoulder
 151 15:06:25 <joanie> clown: you won't be hunted down. API and I on the other hand....
 152 15:06:37 * joanie tosses API a bullet-proof vest
 153 15:06:40 * clown resolves to have his done by Mon.
 154 15:07:01 <joanie> API: anyhoo, let's move on. I'll look up the date
 155 15:07:09 <joanie> and post add it to the minutes
 156 15:07:33 <API> :P
 157 15:07:41 <API> well, anyway, in summary it is not clear
 158 15:07:43 <API> we can as
 159 15:07:44 <joanie> actually hold on
 160 15:07:46 <API> ask in fact
 161 15:07:50 * API holding on
 162 15:08:16 <joanie> #info Normally the team putting together the GNOME quarterlies specifies the target due date on the page
 163 15:08:31 <joanie> #info The current Q1 page seems to lack this date, however. https://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/QuarterlyReports/2011/Q1
 164 15:08:35 <joanie> (done)
 165 15:08:39 <clown> #info Note:  last quarterly report, Q4 2010, is here: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/QuarterlyReports/2010/Q4
 166 15:08:57 <clown> (done)
 167 15:08:58 <joanie> clown: We're not doing that style any more
 168 15:09:07 <joanie> brave new quarterly world
 169 15:09:15 <clown> joanie, sure, but I want to know what I said last time...
 170 15:09:22 <joanie> much less asked for from individual team members
 171 15:09:24 * joanie nods
 172 15:09:31 <joanie> moving on?
 173 15:09:32 <API> ok, so moving on now?
 174 15:09:37 <aleiva> yup
 175 15:09:38 <joanie> :-)
 176 15:09:43 <clown> ok
 177 15:09:43 <API> well, just 20 minutes til the end
 178 15:09:52 <API> and three topics ...
 179 15:10:03 <API> so
 180 15:10:06 <joanie> API hold on
 181 15:10:11 <joanie> do the plugin one first
 182 15:10:13 <joanie> should be fast
 183 15:10:20 <alibezz> it is
 184 15:10:24 <alibezz> :)
 185 15:10:34 <API> ok, my next comment was "can we prioritize"
 186 15:10:34 <API> so
 187 15:10:44 <API> #topic Plugin Possibilities for Accerciser
 188 15:10:57 <alibezz> I'm finishing the new topic-based mallardized docs for Accerciser
 189 15:11:24 <alibezz> and I was wondering that it would be interesting to work on its code after that, maybe writing plugins if you have any needs
 190 15:11:38 <aleiva> great
 191 15:11:43 <alibezz> I may talk to jhernandez in more detail about it
 192 15:11:49 <aleiva> alibezz: you rocks
 193 15:12:00 <alibezz> but if you have any ideas, a little brainstorm would be cool ;)
 194 15:12:30 <joanie> alibezz: Would it make sense to #info that you are looking for ideas and that team members with suggestions can ping you in #a11y?
 195 15:12:41 <alibezz> yeah awesome
 196 15:12:45 <aleiva> please, do
 197 15:12:46 <API> hmm, alibezz but as your work is more about documentation
 198 15:13:05 <API> I guess that you also want to write a "how to create a plugin" doc, right?
 199 15:13:20 <alibezz> I already found a great doc about it
 200 15:13:20 <aleiva> accerciser is the key software to test a11y in gnome software
 201 15:13:22 <alibezz> and adaped it
 202 15:13:23 <alibezz> ;)
 203 15:13:32 <joanie> way to go alibezz :-)
 204 15:13:34 <alibezz> about how to write plugins
 205 15:14:10 <alibezz> API: yeah, I'm more dedicated to documentation, but I want to keep collaborating
 206 15:14:16 <aleiva> API: nice question
 207 15:14:20 <alibezz> after the internship, so we can plan a little
 208 15:14:43 <alibezz> another idea with accerciser is to move it to gnome 3
 209 15:14:56 <alibezz> so whichever is the priority, I'm up to it
 210 15:14:56 <API> ok
 211 15:15:19 <API> as joanie said, could you summarize the data that you already commented with some #info tags, please
 212 15:15:29 <alibezz> oh sorry!
 213 15:15:35 <joanie> no worries
 214 15:16:04 <alibezz> #info Aline is looking for plugin ideas for accerciser. If anyone has an idea, please ping her at #a11y
 215 15:16:32 <API> #info Aline already found some doc about write plugins, and adapted it
 216 15:16:56 <API> anything else?
 217 15:17:08 <API> sorry, for the hurry, we don't have too much time now ;)
 218 15:17:25 <alibezz> the mallardized topic-based version of accerciser docs are almost done (beta version for your analysis, of course)
 219 15:17:36 <alibezz> I guess it could be launched in the new accerciser release
 220 15:17:41 <joanie> awesome
 221 15:18:02 <joanie> The sooner we get it committed, the sooner the translators get at it.
 222 15:18:02 <alibezz> don't know if it deserves an info. but that's it.
 223 15:18:19 <API> yes, I think that it deseves it, please
 224 15:18:22 <alibezz> joanie: great
 225 15:18:27 * joanie agrees with API
 226 15:19:06 <alibezz> #info the mallardized topic-based version of accerciser docs is almost done and should be released with the next accerciser release
 227 15:19:30 <API> alibezz, ok thanks ;)
 228 15:19:36 <API> so if nothing else is required
 229 15:19:38 <API> moving on?
 230 15:19:40 <alibezz> yes
 231 15:19:41 <joanie> please
 232 15:19:50 <API> #topic Action Items - What's done, what needs doing, what is obsolete?
 233 15:20:00 <API> well, we already talked briefly about some of them
 234 15:20:08 <API> rt and li, matthias ben one
 235 15:20:32 <API> so joanie something to add?
 236 15:20:39 <joanie> #info The majority of the current "New" action items have been completed by Joanie and Piñeiro.
 237 15:21:17 <joanie> #info Of the "ongoing ones": We need to ping Brian about his testing proposal
 238 15:21:28 <joanie> #Action Joanie will ping Brian about his testing proposal AI
 239 15:21:36 <joanie> clown: You have an ai
 240 15:21:46 <joanie> Joseph will investigate if it is feasible to call libatspi using javascript (ie: on gnome-shell)
 241 15:21:48 <clown> yes I do.
 242 15:21:53 <joanie> update please?
 243 15:21:56 <clown> sure
 244 15:22:46 <clown> #info very preliminary looking into JS binding to libatspi revealed little.  Joseph will do a more thorough investigation in the coming week.
 245 15:23:14 <joanie> Thanks clown!
 246 15:23:17 <clown> in short, I haven't had much time for this, but now there are other tasks on my plate that require that I solve it.
 247 15:23:25 <joanie> clown: Of course
 248 15:23:34 <clown> "necessity is the mother of invention"
 249 15:23:35 <joanie> the problem is that I don't know what people have done always
 250 15:23:42 <clown> sure, joanie
 251 15:23:44 <joanie> and we need to stay on top of this stuff as best we can
 252 15:24:23 <joanie> #info Piñeiro and Joanie are working on (and hopefully almost done with) the ATK Hackfest prioritization -- or rather the draft thereof for the team's consideration
 253 15:24:44 <joanie> #Action Joanie will ping Javi about his AIs
 254 15:24:55 <API> #info Piñeiro contacted Dan Winship, keyboard stuff will be done by another gsoc intership, but still not details about themes
 255 15:25:05 <aleiva> AI?
 256 15:25:16 <joanie> aleiva: and you're working on the Orca Summit blog entry, right?
 257 15:25:17 <clown> "action itin"
 258 15:25:20 <API> AI == action item
 259 15:25:21 <clown> "item"
 260 15:25:21 <aleiva> AI?s
 261 15:25:23 <aleiva> ok
 262 15:25:25 <joanie> sorry
 263 15:25:54 <joanie> #Action Joanie will update the action item list.
 264 15:25:55 <API> aleiva, it seems that joanie is asking you another info item ;)
 265 15:26:24 <joanie> #Action In the future it would be helpful if the team keeps their individual items updated, removing them upon completion.
 266 15:26:25 <aleiva> I say yes
 267 15:26:39 <joanie> #info Ale is working on the Orca Summit blog entry
 268 15:26:45 <joanie> (done)
 269 15:26:49 <joanie> moving on?
 270 15:27:05 <API> yes
 271 15:27:06 <API> well
 272 15:27:08 <API> no time for
 273 15:27:15 <API> GNOME 3.2 progress:
 274 15:27:18 <API> and after all
 275 15:27:23 <API> we mentioned a lot of it sooo
 276 15:27:35 <joanie> And we had a three hour meeting last week.
 277 15:27:39 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 278 15:27:49 <clown> well, joanie and I had a long meeting about crosshairs with the design team.
 279 15:27:52 <API> someone wants to add something quick to the meeting?
 280 15:28:04 <joanie> clown: info it as appropriate please
 281 15:28:08 <clown> maybe I could summarize the result in an email to the a11y list?
 282 15:28:18 * clown starts an info...
 283 15:29:00 <clown> #info joanie and clown met with the gnome design team in the gnome-design chat room to discuss control center's zoom options dialog
 284 15:29:17 <clown> #info spent most of the time discussing the crosshairs preferences and how to simplify
 285 15:29:53 <clown> #info net result:  not much can be simplified, but there was a proposal about cross hair colour, which Joseph is consulting about with his coworker
 286 15:30:05 <clown> anything else joanie?  or does that cover it?
 287 15:30:28 <joanie> I think that covers it. Thanks
 288 15:30:40 <API> well, we are over meeting time
 289 15:30:42 <clown> one more thing...
 290 15:30:49 <joanie> two
 291 15:30:50 <API> plese go on
 292 15:30:59 <clown> #info for the record, the zoom options dialog proposal is here:  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=643086#c11
 293 15:30:59 <tota11y> 04Bug 643086: normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Universal access:  add dialog for zoom options
 294 15:31:01 <clown> (done)
 295 15:31:15 <joanie> #info Joanie had a great conversation with Allan Day about some of the past issues between the design team and the a11y team
 296 15:31:54 <joanie> #info Joanie will try to remain present in #gnome-design and further our new, hopefully really positive, relation between our teams
 297 15:31:58 <joanie> (done)
 298 15:32:42 <API> ok,so closing the meeting
 299 15:32:43 <API> !
 300 15:32:59 <API> #endmeeting