1 10:29 < API> meeting time!
   2 10:30 < bnitz_> yay
   3 10:30 < API> anyway, lets wait a little
   4 10:30 < API> although today we are a lot of people
   5 10:30 <@joanie> bnitz_: you're in a good mood
   6 10:30 <@joanie> ;-)
   7 10:31 ::: clown [~clown@205.211.169.2] joined #a11y-meeting
   8 10:33 < API> well, some gentle minutes
   9 10:33 < API> I think that we can start
  10 10:34 < API> so looking at agenda
  11 10:34 < API> 1.
  12 10:34 < API> Women's outreach program 
  13 10:34 < API> joanie, ?
  14 10:34 < clown> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings#Agenda_for_the_Next_Meeting
  15 10:34 <@joanie> And our candidate is not here.
  16 10:34 <@joanie> Well, in a nutshell, the gnome women's outreach program is accepting applications
  17 10:34 <@joanie> with the deadline being today
  18 10:35 <@joanie> and we have someone who is officially signing up with the Documentation Team
  19 10:35 <@joanie> who is interested in doing a couple of things:
  20 10:35 <@joanie> 1. Updating our developer docs (yayayaya)
  21 10:35 <@joanie> 2. Creating a custom-widget (or several) as a means to demonstrate implementation of ATK
  22 10:35 <@joanie> She's been in touch with API and myself and also introduced herself on our list
  23 10:36 <@joanie> She indicated she'd be able to attend this meeting
  24 10:36 <@joanie> but ....
  25 10:36 <@joanie> I guess the conclusion (if there are not questions) is this:
  26 10:36 <@joanie> We might have a contributor, who's nick (I think) is alibezz (something like that anyway)
  27 10:36 <@joanie> And I've promised we'd all be supportive. :-)
  28 10:36 <@joanie> So we should be supportive
  29 10:36 < API> just a question
  30 10:37 < API> after all those mails
  31 10:37 < API> the outreach is still checking candidates
  32 10:37 < API> right?
  33 10:37 <@joanie> correct
  34 10:37 < API> or alibezz is already in?
  35 10:37 <@joanie> Aline still has to apply
  36 10:37 <@joanie> we don't know if she's in or not yet
  37 10:38 <@joanie> but we should find out soon enough
  38 10:38 <@joanie> The other conclusion -- and for a later meeting
  39 10:38 <@joanie> is that I'd like to start proposing tasks for Women's Outreach next year.
  40 10:38 <@joanie> just like GSoC, the Mass college, etc.
  41 10:39 <@joanie> and I'll volunteer to coordinate that, bug people for possible projects, etc.
  42 10:39 < API> in general "student management"
  43 10:39  >>> joanie is done with this topic unless there are questions
  44 10:39 <@joanie> yup
  45 10:39 < API> well, just a comment
  46 10:39 <@joanie> did the adjunct thang for 6 years.
  47 10:39 < API> aline is taking a look to migrate
  48 10:39 < API> accerciser doc to mallard
  49 10:39 <@joanie> potentially
  50 10:39 < API> so I guess that it would be good to ping bnitz_ 
  51 10:39 < API> bnitz_, ping
  52 10:39 <@joanie> indeed
  53 10:39 <@joanie> :-)
  54 10:39 < API> ;)
  55 10:40 <@joanie> This was one of the reasons I suggested Aline attend our meeting.
  56 10:41 < API> well, lets hope shell be there later
  57 10:41 < API> shell => she'll
  58 10:41 ::: bnitz [~bn128650@muc-ea-fw-1-imap.sun.com] joined #a11y-meeting
  59 10:41 <@joanie> aha!
  60 10:41 < API> hmmm
  61 10:41 <@joanie> speak of the devil
  62 10:41 < API> two brian nitzs
  63 10:41 < API> on the meeting
  64 10:41 < API> bnitz, and bnitz_ 
  65 10:41 <@joanie> send in the clones
  66 10:41 < bnitz> :-)
  67 10:42 < bnitz> I think the other one dropped off the network so I might have missed something.
  68 10:42 < API> well, we were talking about you
  69 10:42 < API> in summary:
  70 10:42 < API> <API> aline is taking a look to migrate
  71 10:42 < API> <API> accerciser doc to mallard
  72 10:42 < API> <joanie> potentially
  73 10:42 < API> <API> so I guess that it would be good to ping bnitz_ 
  74 10:42 < API> <API> bnitz_, ping
  75 10:42 < API> aline is someone who volunteer herself to help on improve a11y doc
  76 10:42 < API> bnitz, so now you are pinged
  77 10:42 < bnitz> Great!
  78 10:43 < API> further details on following weeks
  79 10:43 < API> so
  80 10:43 < API> any question or next point?
  81 10:43 <@joanie> bnitz in particular the mallardizing of your current docs
  82 10:44 < bnitz> joanie:Are there components besides Orca which have been Mallardized?  
  83 10:44 <@joanie> I believe jrocha did ocrfeeder
  84 10:45 <@joanie> I do not know about caribou but can look
  85 10:45 < bnitz> Ok.  I still have the outline you and shaun and I worked on but haven't had time to move beyond that.
  86 10:45 <@joanie> understood
  87 10:45 <@joanie> even if this initial pass is just a conversion in format, it will be a start
  88 10:45 <@joanie> and having gone through the mallard process, I can help as well
  89 10:46 < bnitz> Thank you!
  90 10:46 <@joanie> (and her mentor is one of the main Doc team guys)
  91 10:46 <@joanie> so I think we're good
  92 10:46 < API> ok
  93 10:46 < API> good
  94 10:46 < API> sooo
  95 10:46 < API> lets move next poing
  96 10:46 < API> point
  97 10:47 < API> 2 .GNOME 3.0 is out
  98 10:47 < API>     Is it working? 
  99 10:47 < bnitz> API will aline contact me directly?
 100 10:47 ::: bnitz_ [~bnitz@62.231.57.248] quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds]
 101 10:47 < API> bnitz, yes afaik, although first I guess that
 102 10:47 <@joanie> (bnitz: dunno. Let's wait and see)
 103 10:47 < API> they require to solve all the things related with the
 104 10:47 < API> women outreach
 105 10:47 < API> as we said before
 106 10:47 < API> they are still reviewing candidates
 107 10:47 < API> so, as I said
 108 10:47 < API> 2 .GNOME 3.0 is out
 109 10:48 < API> the big new on the week
 110 10:48 < API> gnome 3.0 is here
 111 10:48 < API> Is it working? 
 112 10:48 < API> well, I guess that there are still work to do
 113 10:48 < API> checking this page
 114 10:48 < API> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3
 115 10:48 < API> you still can see a lot of red things
 116 10:48  >>> joanie just updated the Orca section
 117 10:48 < API> a lot of things were included at the last moment
 118 10:49 < API> and a lot of things were rejected
 119 10:49 < API> in the last moment
 120 10:49 <@joanie> ;-)
 121 10:49 < API> anyway, as far as GNOME 3.0
 122 10:49 < API> is here
 123 10:49 < API> the good new
 124 10:49 < API> is that it would be easier to really test a GNOME 3.0 environment
 125 10:49 < API> that leads to next subitem
 126 10:49 ::: clown [~clown@205.211.169.2] quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds]
 127 10:49 < API> 2.2 Testing distro update 
 128 10:49 < API> jhernandez is not here
 129 10:49  >>> joanie has his update
 130 10:50 < API> joanie clown, any new?
 131 10:50 <@joanie> or not
 132 10:50 <@joanie> clown seems to have gone too
 133 10:50 < API> hmmm yes
 134 10:50 < API> so just joanie
 135 10:51 < API> anything new about this testing distro?
 136 10:51 <@joanie> avi is having problems with the build service. But he's hoping today to produce another spin which will include yesterday's release, Joseph's customizations, and Orca from the GNOME 3.0 branch which has the fixes to work with TheSwitch(tm) that were not approved in time for the official release.
 137 10:51 <@joanie> s/avi/javi/
 138 10:51 < API> so those changes
 139 10:51 < API> TheSwitch a
 140 10:51 < API> are already on orca masteR?
 141 10:51 <@joanie> heck no
 142 10:51 <@joanie> only the branch
 143 10:51 <@joanie> as they will break access to things like Ubuntu
 144 10:52 <@joanie> and everyone else who uses master but not gnome 3
 145 10:52 <@joanie> Ale and I will be sorting out what to do about this issue soon
 146 10:52 <@joanie> but right now gnome-3-specific stuff is ONLY going into the gnome-3 branch
 147 10:52 < API> you mean something that would allow to install master orca on both old and new gnome?
 148 10:52 <@joanie> Orca branched a couple of weeks ago
 149 10:52 <@joanie> correct API
 150 10:53 < API> ok, good
 151 10:53 < API> btw, it is supposed that last fedora is a "good guy" gnome 3 distro?
 152 10:53 <@joanie> we can't keep this only-gnome-3 thing up forever as we make too many changes/fixes/feature additions
 153 10:53 <@joanie> by which you mean what?
 154 10:53 < API> I mean
 155 10:53 < API> that as I said
 156 10:53 < API> one good thing of the GNOME 3.0 release
 157 10:53 < API> is that
 158 10:54 < API> it would be easier to get a distro to test things
 159 10:54 < API> having a custom a11y distro
 160 10:54 < API> is good for testing
 161 10:54 < API> but not sure if it is a long term solution
 162 10:54 <@joanie> and for demonstrating where we are as a team
 163 10:54 < API> as most people use
 164 10:54 < API> "mainstream" distros
 165 10:54 <@joanie> agreed
 166 10:54 <@joanie> but it does simplify the process for people in our team/community who don't want to deal with jhbuild
 167 10:54 < mgorse> Yeah, and I think that testing with mainstream distros will become easier as time goes on and fixes get included
 168 10:55 < API> mgorse, yeah this is my point
 169 10:55 < API> ubuntu is discarded
 170 10:55 <@joanie> and if someone like matthias comes along and says how broken things are in Fedora, and we have a working test distro
 171 10:55 <@joanie> we could point him to that
 172 10:55 < API> as natty will be still mostly gnome 2
 173 10:55 <@joanie> and use it as a way to figure out what he's done differently
 174 10:55 < API> point him to that?
 175 10:55 < bnitz> I'm working on a test tinderbox using jhernandez's a11y test distro as a starting point
 176 10:55 < API> that==?
 177 10:55 <@joanie> that == testing distro
 178 10:56 < API> joanie, ah ok
 179 10:56 <@joanie> because it could be the need for the latest at-spi
 180 10:56 <@joanie> or orca
 181 10:56 <@joanie> or atk
 182 10:56 <@joanie> or who knows
 183 10:56 <@joanie> turned out one of his issues was using gnome speech and bonobo kept tanking
 184 10:56 <@joanie> it would be nice to know if *we* think something is broken
 185 10:56 < API> last fedora still have bonobo?
 186 10:56 <@joanie> when we get such reports
 187 10:56 <@joanie> :-)
 188 10:56 <@joanie> matthias has removed the orca-gnome speech dependency
 189 10:56 < API> sincerely, it is time to have something without any bonobo at all
 190 10:57 <@joanie> and put speech-dispatcher in its place
 191 10:57 <@joanie> agreed
 192 10:57 < API> it has been decrepated for years
 193 10:57 <@joanie> that's what I told him
 194 10:57 <@joanie> ;-)
 195 10:57 < API> at first a lot of people blamed a11y to keep bonobo
 196 10:57 ::: korn [~Peter_Kor@75-25-140-220.lightspeed.okldca.sbcglobal.net] joined #a11y-meeting
 197 10:57 < API> but now it seems that bonobo is just here to make our lives more complex
 198 10:57 <@joanie> now they'll have to find something else to pin on us
 199 10:57 <@joanie> :-P
 200 10:58 <@joanie> btw, I just remembered a gnome 3 bug wrt the panel
 201 10:58 ::: clown [~clown@205.211.169.2] joined #a11y-meeting
 202 10:58 <@joanie> and am looking now for that issue
 203 10:58 < API> well,anyway focusing on this
 204 10:58 < API> yes, 
 205 10:58 < API> about that
 206 10:58 < API> it would be good to update our page review with that
 207 10:58 <@joanie> yup
 208 10:59 < API> and about that page
 209 10:59 < API> well, lets talk about it later
 210 10:59 < API> and move to next subitem
 211 10:59 < API> 2.3
 212 10:59 < API> Accerciser with AT-SPI2 
 213 11:00 <@joanie> So I have another Javi report
 214 11:00 < API> about accerciser?
 215 11:00 <@joanie> Javi still needs to dive into the code, but he says he's aware of some changes that will need to be made:
 216 11:00 <@joanie> migration from gconf to gsettings
 217 11:00 <@joanie> moving from pygtk to introspection
 218 11:00 <@joanie> and Javi has voluteered to do these things if bnitz is not already planning on doing so
 219 11:01 < bnitz> I would appreciate that.
 220 11:01 <@joanie> I shall pass that along. Thanks!
 221 11:01 < bnitz> I only planned to do it if no one else was.
 222 11:01 <@joanie> the other thing I'll ask/point out
 223 11:01 <@joanie> is that, unlike the Orca situation,
 224 11:01 <@joanie> I think it might make sense to maintain a couple of branches of Accerciser
 225 11:01 <@joanie> one for gnome 3 and one for gnome 2, xfce, kde, etc.
 226 11:01 < bnitz> I think that may be true.
 227 11:02 <@joanie> I think it's doable in your case bnitz 
 228 11:02 <@joanie> because your code base is stable
 229 11:02 < bnitz> Yes.
 230 11:02 <@joanie> features are in place
 231 11:02 <@joanie> and it's just occasional bug fixes
 232 11:02 <@joanie> and with all the development in all the different DE's these days
 233 11:02 <@joanie> we need to provide everyone (even those silly enough to not be using gnome 3 :-P) with Accerciser
 234 11:03 < bnitz> I haven't been using GNOME 3 until very recently but I was under the impression that some people had been using accerciser with GNOME 3.
 235 11:03 < bnitz> Did something break in the last minute?
 236 11:04 <@joanie> Last week or the week before, some people said so
 237 11:04 <@joanie> one issue Javi mentioned is that the key is not getting set correctly because it's using gconf and not gsettings
 238 11:04 < bnitz> I see.
 239 11:05 < API> bnitz, at least me and msanchez were using it on gnome3, but on a jhbuild environment
 240 11:05 < bnitz> API: but you were probably using gconf, right?
 241 11:06 < API> bnitz, on that jhbuild environment I was using gsettings
 242 11:06 < API> some time ago I was also affected by the mixed gconf-gseetings environment
 243 11:06 < API> as accerciser was using gconf via old pythong bindings
 244 11:06 < API> and other apps gsettings
 245 11:07 < API> I was affected until mgorse added a quick solution
 246 11:07 <@joanie> So the conclusions of all this is:
 247 11:07 <@joanie> Javi will do the required conversion work to Accerciser
 248 11:07 <@joanie> and most likely there will be two branches existing to support the different DE's 
 249 11:07 <@joanie> correct?
 250 11:08 < bnitz> Yes.  
 251 11:08 < API> ok, so moving to next subitem?
 252 11:08  >>> joanie nods
 253 11:08 < API> 4. Planning for 3.2 
 254 11:09 < API> well, the first thing I would like to talk about is this:
 255 11:09 < API> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/GNOME3
 256 11:09 < API> this was a planning page toward GNOME 3
 257 11:09 < API> in fact
 258 11:09 < API> more than a planning page
 259 11:09 < API> a "list of issues page"
 260 11:09 < API> I think that we should maintain it
 261 11:09 < API> but the name is not anymore valid
 262 11:10 <@joanie> Can I propose a different option?
 263 11:10 < API> yes you can
 264 11:10 <@joanie> Namely, let's keep it around, but start a nice new fresh and clean 3.2 page
 265 11:10 <@joanie> this page will have a template
 266 11:10 <@joanie> so that every entry looks consistent
 267 11:10 <@joanie> and is easy to read
 268 11:11 <@joanie> and we only add the stuff we know are issues which can actually be addressed
 269 11:11 <@joanie> like with the JAW, we have not heard from Ke Wang
 270 11:11 <@joanie> and since he is no longer at Oracle, JAW is no longer a job duty
 271 11:11 <@joanie> until people complain and/or we hit an issue
 272 11:11 < korn> Joanie - how much work is left in JAW?  Just bug fixes?
 273 11:11 <@joanie> I believe so
 274 11:11 <@joanie> but that's just one example
 275 11:11 < API> korn, this is one of the problems
 276 11:11 <@joanie> CSPI is another
 277 11:11 < API> we don't have anyone 
 278 11:12 <@joanie> maybe we'll do it; maybe we won't
 279 11:12 < API> telling us the state of JAW
 280 11:12 <@joanie> but it's not something I think belongs on a 3.2 page
 281 11:12 <@joanie> the problem with the 3.0 page imho is that it's huge 
 282 11:12 <@joanie> tl;dr syndrome
 283 11:12 < API> korn, last jaw update: 24-Mar-2010
 284 11:12 < paul_h> I've used jaw a bit, it basically works
 285 11:13 < API> joanie, ok, it makes sense, but it would be good to have them somewhere, 
 286 11:13 <@joanie> paul_h: and we have open bugs
 287 11:13 < API> like our promised "other things page"
 288 11:13 <@joanie> API sure, let's keep the 3.0 page
 289 11:13 < API> hmmm
 290 11:13 < Pendulum> what about a separate page for 'unadressable issues' so that things like JAW aren't cluttering a 3.2 page, but there's a clear record that it is not up-to-date and may not ever be?
 291 11:13 <@joanie> i mean, we've got a perfectly (long, non-uniform) functional page already
 292 11:13 < API> joanie, well, but what I was saying is that the name of that page is not proper anymore
 293 11:14 <@joanie> Agreed
 294 11:14 < API> it would be confusing to maintain it
 295 11:14 < korn> Is the purpose of the 3.2 page to traack all that is wrong for 3.2, or to track all of the things planned to be fixed for 3.2?
 296 11:14 < API> Pendulum, yeah, I was thinking on somethink like that
 297 11:14 < korn> If the latter, you could then migrate (well, copy) content from the 3.0 page to the 3.2 page, as they get resourced.
 298 11:14 < API> in fact
 299 11:14 <@joanie> korn: exactly
 300 11:14 < API> for this "missing things" on current modules
 301 11:14 < Pendulum> yeah
 302 11:14 < API> I was thinking to avoid the 3.2 think
 303 11:15 <@joanie> although not copy because they must follow the rigid template I would like to make ;-)
 304 11:15 < API> and just a "know issues page"
 305 11:15 < API> not tied to any gnome 3 release
 306 11:15 < API> and any hypothetical "gnome 3.2" would be
 307 11:15 < API> a page
 308 11:15 < API> tied to new features or apps that we want to add
 309 11:15 < API> or fixes that we plan that will be on 3.2
 310 11:16 < API> although not sure if my proposal is also somewhat confusing
 311 11:16 < paul_h> personally I'd just refactor the gnome3 page. it's still discussing how to make gnome 3 accessible, whether it's 3.0 or 3.2
 312 11:16 < korn> One other thing to think about for the 3.2 page: highlighting the things we need from outside the GNOME a11y team -> to better bring pressure (perhaps from the release team, he says hopefully) with "fully a11y" being a goal for 3.2.
 313 11:16 < clown> good point, paul_h
 314 11:16 <@joanie> korn: And that's one of the motivators for a clean, shorter, uniform page
 315 11:16 <@joanie> the RT does look at our 3.0 page
 316 11:16 <@joanie> but my eyes glaze over when I read it
 317 11:17 < API> korn, in my opinion we can't promise a so general objetive on gnome 3.2
 318 11:17 <@joanie> so surely they are having a similar problem
 319 11:17 < API> taking into account the work to do
 320 11:17 < API> and the people we have
 321 11:17 < API> I mean "full a11y" thing
 322 11:17 <@joanie> by which you mean don't have?
 323 11:17 < API> all people want that
 324 11:17 < API> but not mather if we
 325 11:17 < API> say that it is our objetive
 326 11:17 < API> if pragmatically we can't achieve it
 327 11:18 < API> btw, about this feature thing
 328 11:18 < API> something I sent to the list
 329 11:18 < API> https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointOne/Features
 330 11:18 < API> this is the reason I proposed a features page
 331 11:18 < API> it has a accessibility section
 332 11:18 < API> soo
 333 11:18  >>> clown loading...
 334 11:18 < API> clown, is empty
 335 11:18 < API> we should fill it ;)
 336 11:18 < API> but they gave us the template
 337 11:18 < API> soooo
 338 11:18 < API> this is the reason I proposed a "feature page"
 339 11:19 < API> that will be this one
 340 11:19 < clown> API, it isn't even loading an empty page in my browser. :-)
 341 11:19 < API> and a "issue thing"
 342 11:19  >>> clown is loaded...
 343 11:19 < API> that issue page would be
 344 11:19 < API> our current gnome 3.0 page
 345 11:19 < API> but not tied to any release
 346 11:19 < API> that page represents the technical problems
 347 11:19 < API> beyond just bugs
 348 11:19 < API> that prevents a coherent a11y on gnome 3
 349 11:20 < API> and then have a page with other things
 350 11:20 < API> this is my proposal
 351 11:20 < API> anyway
 352 11:20 < clown> API,  technical problems for "GNOME 3.x"?
 353 11:20 < API> not a problem to follow joanie idea
 354 11:20 < API> clown, if you take a look to our current gnome3 page
 355 11:20 <@joanie> I'm not positive our ideas are that different API
 356 11:20 < API> it is more about things that doesn't work properly
 357 11:20 < clown> right
 358 11:20 < API> that new things that we plan to implement
 359 11:21 < API> it is more technical things
 360 11:21 < API> although some things
 361 11:21 < clown> right, I was suggesing the name GNOME 3.x
 362 11:21 < API> like your improvements on gnome -shell mag is more aligned with "features thing"
 363 11:21 < clown> to gloss over the actual release number.
 364 11:21 < API> as I say, probably my proposal is also confusing
 365 11:21 <@joanie> API so lemme propose the following
 366 11:21 <@joanie> after this meeting
 367 11:22 <@joanie> I will draft a 3.2 page
 368 11:22 <@joanie> and bounce it off of you
 369 11:22 <@joanie> you give me feedback, we discuss, bla bla bla
 370 11:22 <@joanie> and we present a concrete, demonstrable proposal
 371 11:22 <@joanie> to the team next week
 372 11:22 < API> ok, makes sense
 373 11:22 <@joanie> cool
 374 11:22 < API> and in fact we are mostly over time in this poing
 375 11:22 < clown> +1
 376 11:22 < API> point
 377 11:22 <@joanie> and then I'll do 2 weeks worth of minutes. :-P
 378 11:22 < API> so anything else from anyone else about this?
 379 11:23  >>> joanie is so behind
 380 11:23 < API> ok, so last poin
 381 11:23 < API> t
 382 11:24 < API> 4.Updating the project's outdated pages (incl. GNOME Developer Guide) 
 383 11:24 < API> hmm, in fact 3.
 384 11:24 < API> this is related to aline work, or unrelated?
 385 11:24 < API> joanie?
 386 11:24 <@joanie> both
 387 11:24 <@joanie> you and I had already been talking about it
 388 11:24 <@joanie> and then Aline came along
 389 11:24 <@joanie> given the time, let's table it for now
 390 11:24 <@joanie> and see how Aline's application progresses
 391 11:26 < API> joanie, ok
 392 11:26 < API> well
 393 11:27 < API> 3 minutes til the end
 394 11:27 < API> miscellaneous time
 395 11:27 < API> someone want to say something sensible
 396 11:27 < API> not included on the agenda?
 397 11:27 < korn> Dunno if this is sensible or not...
 398 11:27 <@joanie> heh
 399 11:27 < korn> Just curious: any sense of when the next a11y spin will come out?
 400 11:27 < clown> I want to say something sensible that was in the agenda, but go ahead korn.
 401 11:27 < korn> Hmmm... a sensible clown.  What is the world coming to?
 402 11:28 < clown> up is down...
 403 11:28 <@joanie> korn: you missed that
 404 11:28 < API> a11y spin?
 405 11:28 < korn> Sorry...  I was a bit late.
 406 11:28 <@joanie> the executive summary is that Javi was having problems with the build server/system
 407 11:28 < clown> yeah, I missed it too, due to network outage.
 408 11:28 <@joanie> but he plans to do it tonight if possible
 409 11:28 < korn> Awesoem!
 410 11:29 <@joanie> incorporating some things which didn't make it into gnome 3 officially
 411 11:29 <@joanie> due to time constraints
 412 11:29 < clown> it already is late there where Javi is, right?  It's almost "tonight".
 413 11:29 <@joanie> They stay up crazy late, these Sevilla guys
 414 11:29 < korn> And then they go out and have dinner...
 415 11:30 <@joanie> exactly
 416 11:30 < clown> I don't see him here, nor in #a11y.  How can I get in touch with him?
 417 11:30 <@joanie> email
 418 11:30 <@joanie> clown: he's at a release party in Granada
 419 11:30 <@joanie> hence my reporting for him
 420 11:30 < clown> his email is (so I don't have to use google)?
 421 11:30 <@joanie> jhernandez@emergya.es
 422 11:30 < korn> Tapas, with garlic & tomatos on toasted bread...  (getting hungry)
 423 11:30 < clown> thanks!
 424 11:31 <@joanie> korn: It's sensible that you get hungry (hopes API approves)
 425 11:31 <@joanie> ;-)
 426 11:31  >>> clown misses that square in Seville, *sigh*.
 427 11:31  >>> joanie is going back
 428 11:31  >>> clown is jealous
 429 11:31 <@joanie> and staying near there I believe
 430 11:31 <@joanie> Juanje helped me find a place
 431 11:32  >>> clown wonders if a hungry clown is a sensible clown
 432 11:32  >>> joanie wonders at what point boris and natasha are going to feel the wrath of fearless leasder
 433 11:32 < korn> Meanwhile the next AEGIS conference (this year, this Nov.) is in Brussels.  Not a great place for Tapas...  Good Crêpes Flambé though...
 434 11:32 <@joanie> leader even
 435 11:32 < mgorse> You're going to Seville?
 436 11:33 <@joanie> mgorse: Yeah, Orca team work plus vacation time
 437 11:33 <@joanie> GNOME 3 nearly killed me and I need a break
 438 11:33  >>> mgorse nods
 439 11:33 < API> miscellaneous time became really miscellaneous
 440 11:33 < API> ok folks
 441 11:33 < API> meeting over
 442 11:33 < API> see you
 443 11:33 <@joanie> hehe
 444 11:33 < clown> thanks API!