Aug 13 16:01:32 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Welcome to the "What's there to Learn?" session

Aug 13 16:02:09 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I'm running this to help you understand your career options better -- to understand the big picture of how software development organizations work, and what various job titles/skills mean. Aug 13 16:02:10 * pidge is now known as pidge_yoctoproject_mentor

Aug 13 16:02:39 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> We'll be doing this as 3 minipresentations from 3 people who work in open source

Aug 13 16:02:54 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> 1st: pidge_yoctoproject_mentor who is an OPW mentor in this round Aug 13 16:03:14 * pidge_yoctoproject_mentor waves hi!

Aug 13 16:03:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> She'll speak for about 5 minutes about how engineering works at her org and then we'll have 5-10 min for Q&A

Aug 13 16:03:31 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> then, someone from New York Public Library Labs, whom I need to ping to get into the channel

Aug 13 16:03:50 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> same deal - 5 min about how the engineering side of NYPL Labs works and what jobs people do, and then 10 min Q&A

Aug 13 16:04:05 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and then shauna from OpenHatch will talk about the software-making side of OpenHatch

Aug 13 16:04:12 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> again, 5 minutes of "lecture" and 10 min of Q&A

Aug 13 16:04:22 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> it's okay if things run over a little bit, and we take an hour

Aug 13 16:04:35 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> if it turns out we run on time, then the last 15 min will be me talking about Wikimedia

Aug 13 16:05:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I hope everything is pretty clear! Here you have a range of people doing a range of jobs at different kinds of organizations - a for-profit, a governmental agency, a small nonprofit

Aug 13 16:05:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> any questions before we get started?

Aug 13 16:05:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I'll wait a minute

Aug 13 16:07:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and, change of plan, shauna, ok if you're on second? the other speaker is having trouble with connecting

Aug 13 16:07:17 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok, pidge_yoctoproject_mentor go ahead!

Aug 13 16:07:38 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> thank you sumanah_wikimedia_mentor

Aug 13 16:07:52 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> Hi all. My name is Beth Flanagan. I'm the Build and Release Engineer for the Yocto Project. I'm in charge of the yocto-autobuilder, release engineering and FLOSS license compliance subsystems for the project.

Aug 13 16:08:56 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> In the release engineering part of my job I generally build about 140+ different image types across 17 different arches (x86, arm, ppc, mips etc) in a little over 5 hours.

Aug 13 16:09:08 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> I'm employed by the Intel Open Source Technology Center but the Yocto Project is actually a Linux Foundation project with a lot of companies contributing both in time and money.

Aug 13 16:09:24 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> You can find out who contributes here: https://www.yoctoproject.org/ecosystem/member-organizations

Aug 13 16:09:39 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> The Yocto Project is, in part, a Linux distribution builder and ecosystem for embedded devices. It utilizes a few subprojects in order to build, from scratch, a linux distribution/images that are specific to hardware.

Aug 13 16:10:19 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> We are the build system behind Angstrom, WebOS, Enea Linux, Mentor Embedded Linux, and Wind River Linux.

Aug 13 16:10:52 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> Generally, how things work on the YP, is we have one main architect who is a Linux Foundation fellow (Richard Purdie, aka RP) and a bunch of people in charge of various subspecialties. We have a kernel architect, a user space architect, a documentation head, a release engineer, a UX designer, and a lot of just general purpose developers. Most everyone who works on the project after a while gets their hands dirty on different area

Aug 13 16:10:52 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> s.

Aug 13 16:12:13 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> The people in charge of subsystems are generally very senior folks, who have either been hired by the various Yocto Project members to work on specific things, or, they're people who started out as general purpose devs, found something that they really liked doing and just started to own more and more of it. We also have a community manager (Jefro, who is the OPW wrangler for the YP), a project managager, marketing folks.... whil

Aug 13 16:12:13 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> e we're a dev heavy project not everyone who contributes is a developer!

Aug 13 16:12:51 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> At the beginning of our 6 month major release cycle we will generally pick off a few hot topic items, like usablility, systemd integration, etc. What generally happens (and each subspecialty has slightly different processes) is that community members will submit patches to the mailing list.

Aug 13 16:13:30 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> Sometimes these pick off bugs that are in our bugzilla, sometimes they are specific to openembedded layers, sometimes they're just an itch someone wants to scratch. What happens is that either our lead architect, RP will review and pull them or our user space architect Saul Wold will consolidate them, put them through an autobuilder run and then send a consolidated pull request to RP if things look ok.

Aug 13 16:14:54 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> We generally like to have things go through an autobuilder run first, especially if it's something very low level that has the ability to break stuff (gcc, eglibc, etc) which is why the part of the project I work on is key. It does a lot of out testing and when you're building for many different arches, testing is key.

Aug 13 16:15:09 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> So, as we go through our release cycle we will hit a milestone. We usually have 4 or 5 of these. From there, we'll pick a place in master that is *hopefully* stable and then it's off to QA.

Aug 13 16:16:04 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> We spend a LOT of time on QA. One of the things we look for in QA developers are software developers who have an interest in automation, both test and process automation. We have folks working on automated hardware testing, which is very exciting stuff, building linux images from scratch, automatically loading them to a board and then testing.

Aug 13 16:16:41 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> Embedded development is difficult and we try to make it as easy as possible. One of the ways we're able to do that is we try to document as much stuff as possible. We have a full time documentation person whose job is solely documentation with community members contributing to that effort. One of them is out OPW intern LCyrin who has been working on yocto-autobuilder documentation.

Aug 13 16:17:06 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> I think that's the basics. Questions?

Aug 13 16:17:38 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Thank you pidge_yoctoproject_mentor!

Aug 13 16:18:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> pidge_yoctoproject_mentor: I'll start: did you start at Intel/Yocto as a build and release engineer?

Aug 13 16:19:53 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> So, I've been a sw dev for the past 22 years (give or take) and about 5 years ago really got into build and release. I have an embedded linux background already and the YP needed an embedded linux build and release engineer (there aren't many of us). So they called me up and asked me to join.

Aug 13 16:20:44 <Queeniebee> pidge_yoctoproject_mentor: Could you describe the role of a user space architect? Does it relate to a UX role in any way? Aug 13 16:22:25 * LCyrin is now known as LCyrin_Yocto_Intern

Aug 13 16:22:43 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> Queeniebee: Sure. So the user space architect deals with all the packages that get built for userspace. basically if it's anything but the kernel, sgw deals with it. This could be anything from trying to upgrade gcc (and tracking down what fails as a result) to implementing a new image type (like build-appliance a yocto generated image that runs the yocto build system. recursion!)

Aug 13 16:22:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (next up will be leonardr, Leonard Richardson, speaking to you about his job in a very different organization!)

Aug 13 16:23:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> If you don't mind, I'd like to keep things moving because leonardr mentioned a time issue

Aug 13 16:23:20 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> as for the UX role, we have a UX designer who spends a lot of her time on our developer experience.

Aug 13 16:23:30 <jlawall> pidge_yoctoproject_mentor: how many people in Intel work with you on the project?

Aug 13 16:23:37 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor, sure. folks can feel free to PM me questions.

Aug 13 16:24:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Cool. and pidge_yoctoproject_mentor I personally think you could blog what you wrote and people would enjoy that

Aug 13 16:24:28 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: heh. thanks.

Aug 13 16:24:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> leonardr: take it away! also pidge_yoctoproject_mentor if you can stick around to the end of the hour there may be more time for general Q&A

Aug 13 16:24:39 <leonardr> hello, everyone

Aug 13 16:24:48 <leonardr> i'm a software developer at the new york public library

Aug 13 16:25:08 <leonardr> i work in a division called Digital Library and Labs, colloquially known as "NYPL Labs"

Aug 13 16:25:46 <leonardr> to simplify a bit, the "Digital Library" portion is in charge of digitizing items from our collection

Aug 13 16:26:01 <leonardr> and the "Labs" portion is in charge of making those items available to the public in useful and interesting ways

Aug 13 16:26:23 <leonardr> i'll give a couple examples which will also illustrate our project-driven work style

Aug 13 16:26:34 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> http://www.nypl.org/collections/labs

Aug 13 16:26:36 <leonardr> http://stereo.nypl.org/ is a small project

Aug 13 16:27:08 <leonardr> we had some nineteenth-century stereographs, we digitized them, and we turned them into animated gifs

Aug 13 16:27:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> blog: http://www.nypl.org/voices/blogs/blog-channels/nypl-labs

Aug 13 16:27:33 <leonardr> allowing patrons (including you) to see the 3d effects without needing special tools

Aug 13 16:27:46 <leonardr> here's a more complex project: http://menus.nypl.org/

Aug 13 16:28:02 <leonardr> we have a very large collection of menus from new york city from the later 19th and early 20th centuries

Aug 13 16:28:31 <leonardr> we've digitized the collection, but digitization alone doesn't give us a lot of useful information

Aug 13 16:28:42 <leonardr> so we started a crowdsourcing project to turn the digitized menus into data Aug 13 16:28:49 * Queeniebee is now known as queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern

Aug 13 16:29:12 <leonardr> this collection is interesting in its own right, but it's also very useful to scholars and novelists doing research

Aug 13 16:29:35 <leonardr> another similar project: http://buildinginspector.nypl.org/

Aug 13 16:30:06 <leonardr> i'd say we have a couple different types of projects

Aug 13 16:30:28 <leonardr> one type is the type I've been showing you: improving our collections and making them useful to the public

Aug 13 16:30:48 <leonardr> the other is a more focused "infrastructure" type of project

Aug 13 16:31:07 <leonardr> one example of an infrastructure project is our digital collections portal itself: http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/

Aug 13 16:31:12 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok leonardr I'm gonna slightly start the Q&A time... at the bottom of http://www.nypl.org/collections/labs you can see the team -- there's a product manager, various developers including a designer/developer & an interaction designer/developer

Aug 13 16:31:19 <leonardr> sure

Aug 13 16:31:31 <leonardr> another infrastructure project is "Library Simplified", the project i'm working on now

Aug 13 16:31:35 <leonardr> it's described in this news article:

Aug 13 16:31:37 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> leonardr: and I see y'all are also hiring for https://jobs-nypl.icims.com/jobs/7986/department-coordinator-and-analyst%2c-digital-library-%2b-labs/job "Department Coordinator and Analyst, Digital Library + Labs"

Aug 13 16:31:39 <leonardr> http://www.thedigitalshift.com/2014/07/ebooks/library-simplified-works-three-click-access-library-ebooks-ala-2014/

Aug 13 16:32:00 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> leonardr: and you specifically are working a lot with backend, right? python & databases & APIs?

Aug 13 16:32:11 <leonardr> yes, i am a backend developer

Aug 13 16:32:16 <leonardr> we do rails and python

Aug 13 16:32:22 <leonardr> postgresql

Aug 13 16:32:31 <leonardr> i create apis, and i also write clients for a lot of apis that provide information about books

Aug 13 16:32:50 <leonardr> at the moment i am doing a lot with Project Gutenberg data and OCLC Linked Data

Aug 13 16:33:01 <leonardr> my main partner on the Library Simplified project is an iOS develoepr

Aug 13 16:33:37 <leonardr> my job involves integrating a whole lot of different sources of information in a way that presents a seamless user experience to patrons

Aug 13 16:33:37 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: terriyu lyndsey jlawall mvolz_wikimedia_intern and others, please feel free to ask questions of leonardr

Aug 13 16:33:45 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> leonardr: Do you have a degree in library science

Aug 13 16:33:58 <leonardr> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: no, my degree is in computer science

Aug 13 16:34:16 <leonardr> that's pretty typical for this department. there are about 8 of us and only two have a background in library science

Aug 13 16:34:35 <terriyu> leonardr: is NYPL considered a government agency? Aug 13 16:34:47 * sumanah_wikimedia_mentor called it a government agency in the intro and that may be kinda incorrect

Aug 13 16:35:01 <leonardr> terriyu: no, it's not a government agency, but i can see how people might say that

Aug 13 16:35:06 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (such as me)

Aug 13 16:35:13 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> leonardr: would you say that people in other libraries in a similar position have a degree in library science?

Aug 13 16:35:14 <leonardr> it gets some support from the government, and the hiring process is very similar to government hiring

Aug 13 16:35:34 <leonardr> we also get some benefits (like pension plan) designed for government employees

Aug 13 16:35:58 <leonardr> yes, i would say most people in a similar position came into programming from library science

Aug 13 16:36:01 <leonardr> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: -^

Aug 13 16:36:06 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> litac_: mindy riecatnor terrrydactyl thepwnco_wikimedia_intern - just wanted to give you a heads-up in case you want to ask questions of leonardr from NYPL Labs

Aug 13 16:36:09 <leonardr> but that's just a guess

Aug 13 16:36:13 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> leonardr: very cool work! does NYPL Labs share code/publish open source or have a policy of doing so?

Aug 13 16:36:26 <lyndsey> good question

Aug 13 16:36:44 <leonardr> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: yes, you can see our code releases here: https://github.com/NYPL/

Aug 13 16:36:52 <terriyu> leonardr: what are the similarities and differences between working at NYPL vs working at a typical software-focused company?

Aug 13 16:37:09 <leonardr> however, we tend to release code once a project is publically announced, rather than doing the development in public

Aug 13 16:37:42 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> so after leonardr finishes with the existing questions I think we should move on to shauna

Aug 13 16:37:46 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> leonardr: realistically, are there a lot of technical positions opening up in large state/city/academic libraries?

Aug 13 16:37:57 <leonardr> terriyu: i need a moment to think about your excellent question

Aug 13 16:38:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I can answer that queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern - yes! http://jobs.code4lib.org/

Aug 13 16:38:16 <leonardr> thanks sumanah_wikimedia_mentor

Aug 13 16:38:41 <leonardr> terriyu: the main difference is that the software products are only a small part of what the organization does

Aug 13 16:39:00 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I will take a moment to publicize the awesome code4lib community http://www.code4lib.org/ - they have a mailing list, conferences, and a women-in-library-tech subgroup that is very friendly and has a Freenode IRC channel

Aug 13 16:39:11 <leonardr> our main goal is to serve researchers and the general public, and only a small part of that is delivering information (which is mostly what we focus on with our software)

Aug 13 16:39:21 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> http://code4lib.org/about 'code4lib isn't entirely about code or libraries. It is a volunteer-driven collective of hackers, designers, architects, curators, catalogers, artists and instigators from around the world, who largely work for and with libraries, archives and museums on technology "stuff."'

Aug 13 16:40:06 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: so it's not just for those with an MLS degree?

Aug 13 16:40:20 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> correct queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern - and thepwnco_wikimedia_intern is a good person to talk to about this

Aug 13 16:41:11 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> leonardr: is it ok to move on to Shauna?

Aug 13 16:41:19 <leonardr> yes, absolutely

Aug 13 16:41:22 <leonardr> i yield the floor

Aug 13 16:41:23 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> OK. Thank you leonardr!

Aug 13 16:41:27 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shauna: go ahead

Aug 13 16:41:28 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: I'd definitely recommend subscribing to the code4lib mailing list - the diversity of projects people are working on is very interesting and enlightening

Aug 13 16:41:43 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: okay i will, thanks

Aug 13 16:41:44 <shauna> Hi all. I'm Shauna Gordon-McKeon and I'm the Program Director for OpenHatch, which is a small non-profit that tries to help people get involved in the free/open source community.

Aug 13 16:41:47 <terriyu> thank you leonardr !

Aug 13 16:42:02 <shauna> The main program I develop there is Open Source Comes to Campus, which is actually an outreach event series, but I do a lot of things in order to run the events successfully, including building software, usually websites. OpenHatch itself also has a popular website, at openhatch.org, and I occasionally contribute to it and can speak a bit about how it works.

Aug 13 16:42:33 <shauna> Because our main focus is on welcoming newcomers, we do our software development with accessibility in mind. Our software projects are built for newcomers to contribute to. The main websites has over 100 contributors (https://github.com/openhatch/oh-mainline). Anyway, this means that sometimes we'll make decisions based on what's easy to understand as opposed to what's most efficient or most elegant or uses the fewest lines of code.

Aug 13 16:42:54 <shauna> We also have a strong culture of documenting, asking and answering questions, and pair programming. For the main website, we have a fairly large team of regular contributors with the ability to make changes. When someone submits a pull request, anyone from that team can suggest changes and/or decide to merge it in.

Aug 13 16:43:29 <shauna> Another thing worth noting is how small we are. OpenHatch was first founded as a start up but changed to a non-profit back in 2012. Right now, I work part time for the organization, and everyone else is a volunteer. There are many other open source non-profits that are significantly bigger than that, in terms of amount of paid people-hours. The result for us is that we're a bit haphazard - we build things as we need them and fix problems as they come up

Aug 13 16:43:29 <shauna> without a lot of long term planning. It's worked so far.

Aug 13 16:44:51 <shauna> The main OpenHatch website is built with Django. Some of the smaller sites use a mixture of Django, Python, Javascript, and of course HTML/CSS.

Aug 13 16:45:01 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> http://openhatch.org/

Aug 13 16:45:19 <shauna> Thanks, sumanah_wikimedia_mentor.

Aug 13 16:45:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor>

Aug 13 16:45:36 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (a reminder! even though you already linked.)

Aug 13 16:45:37 <shauna> I'm not sure what else to say, so I'm happy to switch to Q&A.

Aug 13 16:45:43 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shauna: how long have you been there?

Aug 13 16:45:50 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Since 2012?

Aug 13 16:45:54 <shauna> I joined Openhatch in Jan 2013.

Aug 13 16:46:13 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I really like this blog post about how Shauna structures her job http://www.shaunagm.net/blog/2014/07/its-my-time/

Aug 13 16:46:16 <shauna> So about a year and a half?

Aug 13 16:46:20 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> shauna: how did you learn about OpenHatch?

Aug 13 16:46:59 <shauna> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: I actually used to live with Asheesh Laroia, one of OpenHatch's cofounders, in a co-op house in Boston.

Aug 13 16:47:33 <shauna> I was not directly involved in open source before this job, which has been interesting. I started teaching people how to use git, IRC, issue trackers, etc as I was learning all those things myself.

Aug 13 16:48:01 <shauna> (I say "not directly involved" because I was doing some open government and open science activism before Jan 2013.)

Aug 13 16:48:11 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shauna: can you talk about the role of design and user interface/user experience? you don't have a fulltime designer on the staff so how do you make sure you're designing things well, in terms of interaction design and visual?

Aug 13 16:48:22 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> shauna: we met at AdaCamp in Portland - hello again! Did you have previous experience working for nonprofits before? Anything surprising about it?

Aug 13 16:49:04 <shauna> Hi thepwnco_wikimedia_intern! Nice to "see" you again. I used to work in academia, so it wasn't that much of a culture shift for me...

Aug 13 16:49:23 <shauna> Casual atmosphere, mission-not-profit-driven, etc.

Aug 13 16:49:48 <shauna> Working remotely has been more of a shift, and took a while to figure out -- something that perhaps OPW interns are used to dealing with.

Aug 13 16:50:07 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> ha. Yes..

Aug 13 16:50:16 <shauna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: our design is improved by the fact that we've got some great volunteers who help with it.

Aug 13 16:50:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> BTW right now I am gonna open up questions for pidge_yoctoproject_mentor as well

Aug 13 16:50:42 <shauna> Karen Rustad for instance did a lot of the early design, and made our beloved penguin mascot. (http://littlegreenriver.com/)

Aug 13 16:51:07 <shauna> Britta Gustafson has also helped a ton (http://jeweledplatypus.org/).

Aug 13 16:51:19 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> shauna: I love your mascot and I love the OH wiki!

Aug 13 16:51:23 <terriyu> shauna: what is the funding situation like for open source "community-oriented" projects? (I'm puirposely excluding open source software development, which industry clearly has a lot of interest in.)

Aug 13 16:51:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> so if you want to ask questions of pidge_yoctoproject_mentor from Yocto/Intel, or shauna from OpenHatch, please go ahead.

Aug 13 16:51:44 <shauna> A lot of times folks will report design/UX problems and we'll fix them as they come up. Occasionally though we'll do a big overhaul and in that case we tend to set aside time for a "sprint", whether remote or in person or at a conf.

Aug 13 16:51:57 <shauna> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: Yay!

Aug 13 16:52:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (I am specifically pinging maxa_qemu_intern: mindy riecatnor sandaru_Wikimedia_intern terrrydactyl because I think I haven't seen questions from you yet, in case you have any.)

Aug 13 16:52:06 <shauna> Anyone can contribute to the wiki, FYI.

Aug 13 16:52:34 <shauna> terriyu: Pretty much all of OpenHatch's funding goes towards outreach.

Aug 13 16:52:36 <fhocutt> shauna, are you hiring anyone else?

Aug 13 16:53:45 <shauna> terriyu: We get all our funding from a mix of individual and organizational donors. Right now there's about enough to pay me for my part time work, and cover things like server costs, and the occasional event (though most events use school funding to cover pizza, etc.)

Aug 13 16:54:17 <shauna> We've talked about trying to grow but it's not clear how we'd do that or if we could find the sort of bigger sources of funding (grants, a bigger corporate sponsor, etc) to do so.

Aug 13 16:54:19 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> hi pidge_yoctoproject_mentor do members of the UX team need to know embedded linux as a hiring requirement?

Aug 13 16:54:52 <shauna> fhocutt: not at the moment. We'd like to, but we haven't figured out a growth plan that would allow it.

Aug 13 16:55:11 <fhocutt> shauna: growth is a hard problem!

Aug 13 16:55:11 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> LCyrin_Yocto_Intern: upasana_perl_alum and marina - about 5 min left for questions, because I would like to wrap up soon in case people need to leave

Aug 13 16:55:31 <shauna> fhocutt: One thing I'd like to do at some point is have an OPW intern whose project would be extended Open Source Comes to Campus to communities we're not yet reaching.

Aug 13 16:55:38 <shauna> (Ideally this intern would be from said community.)

Aug 13 16:55:55 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shauna: you're thinking demographic communities here, right?

Aug 13 16:55:59 <shauna> We've done a fair amount of gender-diversity focused outreach, including women-only events, but not a lot of any other type of outreach.

Aug 13 16:56:10 <shauna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: yes.

Aug 13 16:56:40 <shauna> although as a scientist and a fan of open government I'd be happy to work on discipline/subject specific outreach as well.

Aug 13 16:56:55 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor>

Aug 13 16:57:07 <marina> no questions, but many thanks to sumanah_wikimedia_mentor, pidge_yoctoproject_mentor, leonardr, and shauna for putting this together :)!

Aug 13 16:57:26 <mindy> I'd like to echo marina

Aug 13 16:57:42 <shauna> Folks should feel free to come by #openhatch on Freenode.

Aug 13 16:57:43 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> if there's anything in particular people learned here that was valuable to them, I'd love to know

Aug 13 16:57:45 <fhocutt> likewise!

Aug 13 16:57:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> specifics are fun

Aug 13 16:57:51 <shauna> It's a pretty active, and I like to think welcoming, channel.

Aug 13 16:58:21 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: thepwnco_wikimedia_intern - #libtechwomen on Freenode is a cool place to hang out with women who do library tech (I think it's open to all genders)

Aug 13 16:58:25 <shauna> Thanks for inviting me, sumanah_wikimedia_mentor.

Aug 13 16:59:04 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> It was really helpful to learn that even the Yocto Project has UX people since that's my interest

Aug 13 16:59:58 <marina> I'd like to mention a few opportunities, applications for which are currently open: 1) Hacker School in NY!! 2) 5 travel scholarships to Open Hardware Summit in Rome 3) 18 free admissions and some travel assistance for PuppetConf in SF!

Aug 13 17:00:12 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: It was good thinking to invite leonardr because I didn't know software developers worked at NYPL

Aug 13 17:00:23 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Yay!

Aug 13 17:00:46 <shauna> Also you can browse: https://openhatch.org/wiki/Opportunities

Aug 13 17:00:55 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: also, a bit weird since I met him in person before

Aug 13 17:01:01 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor>

Aug 13 17:01:02 <marina> https://www.hackerschool.com/apply

Aug 13 17:01:30 <marina> https://adainitiative.org/category/getting-involved-in-open-tech-and-culture/scholarships-and-grants/

Aug 13 17:01:57 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I would like to see more discussion of what is a good environment for a junior developer. There are lots of places to work, but I have no clue which of them is good for a junior dev.

Aug 13 17:02:12 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: Cool. shauna & pidge_yoctoproject_mentor do you want to speak to that?

Aug 13 17:02:16 <terriyu> or junior doc person, etc

Aug 13 17:02:27 <terriyu> (sorry, didn't mean to discriminate)

Aug 13 17:02:59 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Nightrose: jesstess marina: maybe you have some thoughts re Terri's question above?

Aug 13 17:03:07 <marina> also Open Technology Institute, which participates in OPW, is looking for a systems analyst in DC: http://oti.newamerica.net/node/118012

Aug 13 17:03:17 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> terriyu: So, I pick the projects I work on VERY carefully. I have a list of things I check off.

Aug 13 17:04:11 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> Is it funded? Is it interesting? If I objectively look at it, is it going anywhere? Who is working on it? What does the demographic look like? Is there room for advancement?

Aug 13 17:04:51 <marina> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor, terriyu: I'm not sure at this point - it'd be a great question for recent OPW alums - terriyu just suggested to me that we can ask more alums to talk about their experiences on the mailing list

Aug 13 17:06:01 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> marina sumanah_wikimedia_mentor That's a great suggestion terriyu! It's good to hear experiences from alums at different orgs

Aug 13 17:07:01 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sarahsharp1: terriyu just asked: "I would like to see more discussion of what is a good environment for a junior developer. There are lots of places to work, but I have no clue which of them is good for a junior dev" (or doc person etc)

Aug 13 17:07:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> any ideas?

Aug 13 17:07:24 <terriyu> intern alums tend to be junior so they have a valuable, particularly relevant perspective

Aug 13 17:08:08 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> pidge_yoctoproject_mentor: I like your questions a lot

Aug 13 17:08:30 <terriyu> guess I ask hard questions

Aug 13 17:08:34 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> that's good!

Aug 13 17:08:34 <terriyu> thanks for the ideas, pidge_yoctoproject_mentor !

Aug 13 17:08:50 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: some job descriptions actually say "junior" in them

Aug 13 17:08:58 <marina> any alums in a channel are welcome to share

Aug 13 17:09:18 <marina> upasana_perl_alum recently blogged about her path to a first job: http://upasana.me/2014/08/11/back-with-a-bang/

Aug 13 17:09:37 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: thanks. I think the relevant thing for junior folks is the "who else is working on this?" I totally internet hunt for folks to see how they interact on email lists when I'm thinking about a job.

Aug 13 17:10:19 <sarahsharp1> Intel is a good place for junior developers, if you can find the right group. I'm rather fond of my Open Source Technology Center (OTC) group.

Aug 13 17:10:37 <sarahsharp1> Um, trying to think what other good companies I know.

Aug 13 17:10:50 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> Are they helpful? Are they competent? How do they interact with folks. PROTIP: Find out when their releases are and check their email list behavior the month prior. It'll tell you how folks act under pressure.

Aug 13 17:10:50 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> pidge_yoctoproject_mentor: that's such a good point. A great way to see how friendly/hospitable that community/team is

Aug 13 17:11:38 <sarahsharp1> I would also ask specifically about mentorship. Do they have a structured program where everyone gets a mentor when they're new?

Aug 13 17:11:47 <pidge_yoctoproject_mentor> And yes, obligitory Intel thing. I've got lots of good things to say about OTC and that not just because I get coffee breaks with sarahsharp1

Aug 13 17:11:57 <sarahsharp1> What mentorship programs do they have for mid-level and senior technical women?

Aug 13 17:12:53 <sarahsharp1> Ask about resources as well. Has the team expanded in the last couple of years? Do they get to go to conferences? What is their cycle for new hardware or laptops?

Aug 13 17:13:04 <sarahsharp1> Basically if the group is growing or shrinking.

Aug 13 17:13:53 <fhocutt> sarahsharp1, are there any remote opportunities with OTC?

Aug 13 17:14:23 <terriyu> I attended this PyCon talk "Technical on-boarding, training, and mentoring", and both ArcTanSusan and I liked it: http://pyvideo.org/video/2661/technical-on-boarding-training-and-mentoring

Aug 13 17:14:48 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern> I was gonna ask the same question. How about the remote opportunities?

Aug 13 17:14:55 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> OTC also has a UK office I think?

Aug 13 17:15:17 <terriyu> thanks for the great thoughts, pidge_yoctoproject_mentor and sarahsharp1 !

Aug 13 17:15:39 <marina> people might also like to look at the opportunities at https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Opportunities

Aug 13 17:16:22 <sarahsharp1> fhocutt: unfortunately not for junior engineers. They like to have junior engineers on site for one on one mentorship.

Aug 13 17:16:38 <fhocutt> makes sense.

Aug 13 17:17:03 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> Does anyone have advice on how to find out about non-developer/engineer positions?

Aug 13 17:17:20 <sarahsharp1> But OTC is a geographically diverse group, so there are many different sites to choose from.

Aug 13 17:17:23 <marina> Automattic, the company which develops WordPress, hires everyone remotely

Aug 13 17:17:39 <terriyu> just saw this map of OTC locations: https://01.org/about

Aug 13 17:17:46 <sarahsharp1> yep

Aug 13 17:17:50 <marina> though for junior positions, being on-site can be really helpful

Aug 13 17:18:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: getting more specific about the discipline you want to work in will help us answer you - UX, right?

Aug 13 17:18:17 <marina> I'd encourage people to consider moving if possible for a good junior position

Aug 13 17:18:27 <sarahsharp1> OTC is gearing up to add a Guadalajara site too

Aug 13 17:18:35 <fhocutt> neat!

Aug 13 17:18:48 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor Yes, does anyone have advice about finding info about UX positions?

Aug 13 17:19:09 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: so, what have you already tried?

Aug 13 17:19:39 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> I've looked at https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Opportunities

Aug 13 17:20:43 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> but I am wondering if there are other job boards devoted to ppl interested in open source but are not software engineers?

Aug 13 17:20:48 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: did you follow up on the conversation we had https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Meetings/201407Career ?

Aug 13 17:20:51 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> cod4lib is one

Aug 13 17:21:01 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> for instance when I said "I did a web search for "hci internships" and got http://www.sigchi.org/resources/education/2011-education-project-1/internships which might help you out "

Aug 13 17:21:43 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> & "You might also try reaching out to http://people.redhat.com/duffy/ and http://georgiabullen.com/ designers who have worked on OPW stuff before "

Aug 13 17:21:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> did you do that already?

Aug 13 17:22:08 <marina> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: here are some resources for open design:

Aug 13 17:22:09 <marina> http://design.okfn.org

Aug 13 17:22:10 <marina> http://libregraphicsworld.org

Aug 13 17:22:10 <marina> http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2014

Aug 13 17:22:24 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor No I wanted to reach out to them after Wikimania

Aug 13 17:23:06 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: ok. if you tell us what else you've also been waiting to do then we'll get a better picture of what advice might be redundant

Aug 13 17:24:26 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I also wanted to speak with my mentor and other classmates from my program about resume

Aug 13 17:24:45 <marina> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: none of them seem to have a jobs board, but following their blogs or going to some events might help you learn about the existing opportunities

Aug 13 17:24:54 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (I bet there were several OPW people at Wikimania and it was rockin'! Wish I could have been there and hung out with y'all)

Aug 13 17:25:19 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: yeah! were there any opw wikimedia interns?

Aug 13 17:25:30 <mvolz_wikimedia_intern> I was there!

Aug 13 17:25:53 <mvolz_wikimedia_intern> I asked in this channel if anyone was going to be there but it was at some random time :P

Aug 13 17:26:17 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> mvolz_wikimedia_intern: I should have sent a note to the email list

Aug 13 17:26:28 <mvolz_wikimedia_intern> yeah me too :/

Aug 13 17:26:47 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> lesson learned.

Aug 13 17:28:14 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I asked the question because I would have no idea that a few open source projects have UX people, so I was wondering if there is a job board about non-engineering positions

Aug 13 17:28:27 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> nod

Aug 13 17:28:52 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok, yeah, I see, your second question said that

Aug 13 17:28:53 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: also reading job descriptions helps me write my resumes and cover letters

Aug 13 17:29:24 <terriyu> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern, mvolz_wikimedia_intern : good point, there isn't much activity on the opw mailing lists, so I never think about writing to them. I only wrote once a couple weeks ago because sumanah_wikimedia_mentor suggested it.

Aug 13 17:30:15 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern> learnt lot of things about the structure and work in software companies from today's session. Thanks sumanah_wikimedia_mentor for organizing this. Got to go now. (It's 3.00 AM in Sri lanka).

Aug 13 17:30:24 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> terriyu: as alums we'll encourage the next round of OPW interns to use the list more often

Aug 13 17:30:36 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> bye sandaru_Wikimedia_intern

Aug 13 17:30:42 <marina> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: this collection of articles can also serve as a resource: http://opensource.com/tags/user-experience

Aug 13 17:30:56 <marina> no jobs board unfortunately

Aug 13 17:32:09 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: I really strongly thoroughly encourage you to reach out to people who are currently working fulltime in design/UX in open source. If there are job boards around this stuff then they will know about it

Aug 13 17:33:14 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern> By the way if there are any  BS, MS and PhD students expecting to graduate in Spring or Summer 2015 who hope for a software engineering career at Google there is a chance for you. https://code.google.com/codejam/apactest

Aug 13 17:36:08 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I did a few searches for "design" on the web and on geekfeminism.org and the Geek Feminism wiki queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern

Aug 13 17:36:51 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Zoe_Gillenwater http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Femke_Snelting http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Celeste_Lyn_Paul https://twitter.com/amyhoy

Aug 13 17:37:06 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> http://geekfeminism.org/2012/11/28/wednesday-geek-woman-heather-walls-designing-for-connection-on-wikipedia/ Aug 13 17:38:13 * terriyu forgot to identify herself as an Openstack OPW intern alum

Aug 13 17:39:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> And there's Crystal Beasley http://skinnywhitegirl.com/blog/code-talks-and-designers-dont-speak-the-language/930/ - Mozillian

Aug 13 17:39:51 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor I'm more on the user research end of UX

Aug 13 17:39:54 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: I just skimmed http://skinnywhitegirl.com/blog/chief-experience-officer-at-mozilla-in-2012/707/ and I think you might like it

Aug 13 17:40:36 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> we have a new head of user research at Wikimedia Foundation https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:ARipstra_%28WMF%29

Aug 13 17:41:17 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: how do you feel about danah boyd's work?

Aug 13 17:42:05 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I spoke with Abigail at Wikimania!

Aug 13 17:43:47 <marina> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: Jim Hall recently did user testing for GNOME and has slides and write-ups about it on his blog http://opensource-usability.blogspot.co.uk/

Aug 13 17:44:28 <marina> he also has a blog post about a video from UX presentation an OPW alum Karen Tang did recently at Flock

Aug 13 17:45:20 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern: remind me have you already read my Code4Lib speech? http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/2014_Keynote_by_Sumana_Harihareswara it has some links about user research you might like

Aug 13 17:45:43 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> marina: thanks!

Aug 13 17:45:57 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: No, I haven't!

Aug 13 17:48:31 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I *must* have filed this away in some hackpad and it slipped out of my memory

Aug 13 17:49:01 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> nod

Aug 13 17:49:02 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: interesting speech, I'm one of those horrible Keurig people

Aug 13 17:49:34 <terriyu> I'll have to read it more in depth

Aug 13 18:02:00 <queeniebee_mozillaWiki_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I'm marking the people you mentioned in your keyonote

Aug 13 18:02:09 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Cool!

Aug 13 18:02:28 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I know it's annoying that there is no one giant centralized job board of FOSS that has all the jobs including all disciplines

Aug 13 18:02:56 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I know it is also annoying that we don't know of any specific job boards of design in FOSS

Aug 13 18:06:31 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> people interested in the intersection of libraries and open tech may be into GLAM https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM