1. July 28

• Jul 28 08:01:39 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Hello!

  Jul 28 08:01:45 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Welcome to the career office hours

  Jul 28 08:01:56 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Today's office hours go for 2 hours

  Jul 28 08:02:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> from now till 14:00 UTC

  Jul 28 08:02:11 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and tomorrow's are 19:00 UTC - 21:00 UTC Tuesday 29 July (3pm-5pm ET)

  Jul 28 08:03:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> In case you want something to start with: http://allowedtoapply.tumblr.com/ is not bad

  Jul 28 08:03:20 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I'm happy to give advice on job opportunities and to look at resumes/CVs

  Jul 28 08:05:14 <jlawall> hi, I don't know if you are willing to answer questions from mentors, but I was wondering if you have any advice on how to turn someone down? The person is in some sense qualified, and I don't have anyone else for the position, but I get the impression that the person's real interests are elsewhere, and it doesn't seem like a good fit.

  Jul 28 08:06:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Hi jlawall - sure I can try

  Jul 28 08:06:38 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: so, I figure that this depends on your relationship with that person

  Jul 28 08:06:58 <jlawall> i don't know them, just dsome email discussions and a phone interview

  Jul 28 08:08:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: thinking

  Jul 28 08:08:30 <jlawall> i'm also not likely t want to hire the person in the future

  Jul 28 08:08:50 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: my personal bias is that someone's real interests being elsewhere do not preclude them possibly doing a good job for you as long as they are diligent and operating in good faith and expectations are clear all around

  Jul 28 08:09:10 <jlawall> ok, it's a reasonable point of view

  Jul 28 08:09:28 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: am I right in inferring that you're sort of thinking they would likely leave as soon as a more "interesting" opportunity came along?

  Jul 28 08:09:41 <jlawall> one of my colleagues was concerned about that

  Jul 28 08:09:54 <jlawall> i am more concerned that the person will just get bored

  Jul 28 08:10:00 <jlawall> and not be very productive

  Jul 28 08:10:33 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I infer that there's not a way to - in the long run - integrate work that furthers the project's goals AND would be more challenging/interesting to this person?

  Jul 28 08:10:53 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I should get back to "how to turn them down"

  Jul 28 08:11:12 <jlawall> no, actually their real interest seems to be control theory/mechanical engineering

  Jul 28 08:11:22 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Email is okay - Thanks for talking with us about this position,

  Jul 28 08:11:24 <jlawall> it's pretty far off frfom Linux development

  Jul 28 08:11:31 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I appreciate your time and interest,

  Jul 28 08:12:12 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and say perhaps: My team would like to find someone who is particularly interested in their long-term career being in Linux development

  Jul 28 08:12:17 <jlawall> timand interest is a good suggestion

  Jul 28 08:12:38 <jlawall> ok, that seems good. thanks!

  Jul 28 08:12:43 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> And we feel it wouldn't be a good fit in the long run to work with you because your long-term career is [etc etc]

  Jul 28 08:13:12 <jlawall> it was the last point i was hesitant about

  Jul 28 08:13:26 <jlawall> in some sense, what right do i have to decide for them

  Jul 28 08:13:32 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Sure

  Jul 28 08:13:39 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I can understand that

  Jul 28 08:13:43 <jlawall> on the other hand, i need someone who will be engaged in the work

  Jul 28 08:14:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> You could try taking them on for a short-term position

  Jul 28 08:14:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> a 3-month contract

  Jul 28 08:14:32 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and see how it goes

  Jul 28 08:14:40 <jlawall> no, i don't have that flexibility

  Jul 28 08:14:51 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ah

  Jul 28 08:14:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> so I think you might want to say that

  Jul 28 08:15:18 <jlawall> (by the way, if anyone out there has a recent masters degree and wants to fix bugs in Linux code, please contact me )

  Jul 28 08:15:34 <jlawall> sorry, what are you suggesting to say?

  Jul 28 08:15:40 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (am phrasing now)

  Jul 28 08:17:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> So, this is tricky, because if the only reason that you think they would get bored is that their past career has been in something else, I think you could try to have an honest discussion with them before rejection to figure out whether that is actually the case

  Jul 28 08:18:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I mean, I was a political science major who thought I might go into politics, before I got into open source

  Jul 28 08:19:38 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: I know multiple people with advanced degrees in something OTHER than software/CS who are now very happy in various corners of the tech industry, so one has to be careful, right?

  Jul 28 08:19:43 <jlawall> ok, the person made some comments during the interview that suggested that they thought the position was beneath their exerience

  Jul 28 08:19:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oh dear

  Jul 28 08:20:00 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok, THAT right there is something you could say

  Jul 28 08:21:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> that basically since this is a full-time position without the ability to do a trial period, you want to prefer people who are interested in the position and would find it a good match with their experience

  Jul 28 08:21:31 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: is there a job description btw, so I can point interns at it?

  Jul 28 08:21:47 <jlawall> just a minute

  Jul 28 08:21:59 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Also, anyone else have any questions? I'm happy to give what answers I have

  Jul 28 08:22:02 <jlawall> the official description is in French, which might not help many people...

  Jul 28 08:23:37 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: btw you've already reached out to Sarah Sharp or the other current or past OPW Linux kernel interns to let them know of the opening?

  Jul 28 08:23:44 <jlawall> yes

  Jul 28 08:23:54 <jlawall> but it is very restricted in terms of experience

  Jul 28 08:24:10 <jlawall> one must have a asters and it must be earned in 2012, 2013, or 2014

  Jul 28 08:24:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> wow

  Jul 28 08:24:47 <jlawall> i think that it is part of a government program to stimulate employment for recent graduates, or something like that

  Jul 28 08:24:51 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> right

  Jul 28 08:25:53 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: ali_king_wikimedia_intern: shivani: jlschatz: *wave* hi. We're 1/4 through the first of the office hours this week in case you have any career stuff to discuss!

  Jul 28 08:27:30 <jlawall> ok, thanks for the suggestions sumanah. overall, do you think it is a good idea to give an explanation, or is it reasonable to just say, thanks for the time you put into your application

  Jul 28 08:29:17 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: so, this is where different countries' laws come into play and where you may want to consult people at your organisation rather than me. I live in the US and have, with rare exception, only worked for US firms. And they rarely give feedback about why they are rejecting a candidate, partly for fear of certain kinds of lawsuits

  Jul 28 08:29:29 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I honestly do not know how founded those fears are

  Jul 28 08:29:35 <jlawall> ok

  Jul 28 08:29:44 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and I certainly don't know how the relevant protections work in France

  Jul 28 08:29:54 <jlawall> ok, good point

  Jul 28 08:30:02 <jlawall> I could also just ask HR to turn the person down?

  Jul 28 08:30:08 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Yes you absolutely could

  Jul 28 08:30:38 <jlawall> ok, thanks!

  Jul 28 08:30:40 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> It's always a shame when we can't give people the feedback they need to understand and improve; I hate this tradeoff

  Jul 28 08:31:18 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thank you jlawall -- and btw if you know anyone who is on Systers and you haven't yet circulated the job posting there, consider it. There are lots of recent masters graduates there

  Jul 28 08:31:23 <jlawall> true. in this case, I think the person has other opportunities in their area of interest, so I am optimistic for them

  Jul 28 08:31:26 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> good!

  Jul 28 08:31:36 <jlawall> no, i know nothing about systers

  Jul 28 08:32:12 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> http://systers.org/ - I personally just unsubscribed but you may wish to check it out

  Jul 28 08:32:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> women-in-engineering list, has thousands of people on it

  Jul 28 08:32:44 <jlawall> ok, thanks

  Jul 28 08:32:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor>

  Jul 28 08:33:06 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hi terriyu!

  Jul 28 08:33:17 <terriyu> hi sumanah_wikimedia_mentor

  Jul 28 08:33:25 <mvolz> jlawall: you probably already know this already but many universities have jobs lists, so that might be helpful if you are looking for MS students.

  Jul 28 08:33:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: how is career stuff going for you?

  Jul 28 08:33:35 <mvolz> I know http://www.wise.umich.edu/ has a mailing list they send out job offers on

  Jul 28 08:33:43 <mvolz> but that might be pretty scattershot

  Jul 28 08:34:00 <jlawall> here is an informal announcement of the position

  Jul 28 08:34:03 <jlawall> https://plus.google.com/+PeterSenna/posts/N4jBohrWaEQ

  Jul 28 08:34:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlawall: if you have an hour or 2 to put into recruiting, you can create a sort of boilerplate email you send to http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_academic_organizations_interested_in_women_in_CS

  Jul 28 08:34:05 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: well, my internship is almost over. It was a try out for a full time job but they said I was way below the level of full time Jul 28 08:34:38 * terriyu is barely awake right now

  Jul 28 08:34:52 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: :/ I won't interrogate you and try to talk with you about it if you're pretty sleepy

  Jul 28 08:34:58 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> but best wishes, and happy to talk more later

  Jul 28 08:35:12 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: don't worry, I have coffee here

  Jul 28 08:35:46 * shivani waves

  Jul 28 08:35:50 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: they said I needed to know a bit more CS and that I needed to code 4x faster

  Jul 28 08:35:58 <aruna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: hey!

  Jul 28 08:36:03 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hi shivani & aruna

  Jul 28 08:38:29 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: btw, I convinced a friend of mine here in Western Massachusetts to apply to Hacker School and she got in! She's moving down to New York right now

  Jul 28 08:38:34 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: cool! Do I know her?

  Jul 28 08:39:03 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: no. She got a PhD in linguistics from MIT and she's married to a colleague of my sister.

  Jul 28 08:39:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I hope to meet her

  Jul 28 08:39:33 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> this is one nice thing about living in NYC

  Jul 28 08:39:45 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: cool, I will tell her about you

  Jul 28 08:39:49 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor>

  Jul 28 08:39:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: aruna how is career stuff going for you?

  Jul 28 08:40:12 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: also, that Yale student I was worried about, she got into Hacker School as well, but she's deferring admission.

  Jul 28 08:40:17 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: busy in guadec and research stuff in college these days

  Jul 28 08:40:27 <shivani> Will apply for internships for next summer after I am back

  Jul 28 08:40:33 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: you are a referral machine!

  Jul 28 08:40:42 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: are you at GUADEC right now?

  Jul 28 08:40:46 <aruna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: happy with what I have currently, working on mostly open sourcey stuff.

  Jul 28 08:40:52 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: great!

  Jul 28 08:40:52 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: yes!

  Jul 28 08:41:02 <shivani> sitting right here as we speak

  Jul 28 08:41:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: oh I wish I were there so I could see you and all the other cool people

  Jul 28 08:41:20 * sumanah_wikimedia_mentor looks at https://www.guadec.org/schedule/

  Jul 28 08:41:29 <aruna> me too, how's strasbourg?

  Jul 28 08:41:45 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: me too!! would have loved to meet you

  Jul 28 08:41:55 <shivani> its a beautiful city

  Jul 28 08:42:08 <aruna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I know it's a little late but I'm starting to work at competitive programming.

  Jul 28 08:42:29 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: Why is it late?

  Jul 28 08:42:46 <aruna> because it's the sort of stuff one does in college I s'pose? Jul 28 08:43:03 * aruna rephrases

  Jul 28 08:43:06 <aruna> Is it too late>

  Jul 28 08:43:12 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I certainly don't think it's too late

  Jul 28 08:43:57 <aruna> that's reassuring.

  Jul 28 08:44:01 * sumanah_wikimedia_mentor reads http://www.gnome.org/news/2014/07/shivani-poddar-on-being-a-volunteer-at-guadec/

  Jul 28 08:44:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: what criteria do you think you ought to use to judge whether it's too late for someone to do something?

  Jul 28 08:46:00 <aruna> The amount of time you want to put into something most significantly. Jul 28 08:46:15 * terriyu watches Socratic method

  Jul 28 08:46:27 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: hehe trying to contribute my very very tiny bit

  Jul 28 08:46:42 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: Thank you - it is important work

  Jul 28 08:47:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: ah, so, I think I understand - since coding competitions require great big chunks of time, it's best to do them during periods of your life when you have big chunks of time you can spare?

  Jul 28 08:47:55 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: so the woman PhD from MIT who is at Hacker School, how should she get in touch with you?

  Jul 28 08:48:20 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I think that if the point of doing coding competitions is to win, then that might be true; but if the reason I am doing a coding competition is to use the thrill of competition to cause myself to learn, then I don't have to limit myself to only doing it in order to win

  Jul 28 08:48:43 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I can do it as much as I want and in whatever timeframe I want, as long as it helps me learn and I still get the thrill of competition

  Jul 28 08:48:53 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: Email is fine Jul 28 08:49:12 * shivani also notes that competitive programming is important to get into good SE jobs in companies

  Jul 28 08:49:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: this is just one point of view of course - I could imagine various reasons why someone does coding competitions

  Jul 28 08:49:21 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: is it? I don't think it is

  Jul 28 08:49:23 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: sounds good, your Wikimedia emaiL?

  Jul 28 08:49:26 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: sure

  Jul 28 08:49:46 <shivani> I have not seen big shots like Google et al recruiting just on the basis of developer experience

  Jul 28 08:49:53 <aruna> true, that. Just trying to make time for it now! Are any of you here applying to Ada camp Bangalore?

  Jul 28 08:49:58 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: at Wikimedia Foundation I can't recall ever hearing "oh we should hire [person] because of their coding competition scores" Jul 28 08:50:07 * aruna didn't know the SE hiring bit.

  Jul 28 08:50:16 <shivani> they necessarily give programming ques to test somebody's programming skills

  Jul 28 08:50:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: I honestly doubt what shivani is saying, a lot

  Jul 28 08:50:45 <jlawall> many people run marathons with the hope of improving their time, not to win

  Jul 28 08:51:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> so, yes, software companies do give you tasks to do, and tests, and engineering questions. But you don't have to do competitive coding challenges in order to get onto their radar, nor is it the only way to prep for those bits of the hiring process

  Jul 28 08:51:16 <aruna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: what does wikimedia foundation look for, out of curiosity?

  Jul 28 08:51:35 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Work_with_us is a start

  Jul 28 08:52:33 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: at WMF we try to be pretty clear about what we seek by stating it in the job description - http://hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs/Careers.aspx?c=qSa9VfwQ&cs=9UL9Vfwt&page=Job%20Description&j=o8jyYfwH for example

  Jul 28 08:52:54 <oiami_perl_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Hello, I have some questions

  Jul 28 08:53:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Hi oiami_perl_intern! go ahead!

  Jul 28 08:53:20 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: relevant experience and interest in the Wikimedia mission are pretty important to us

  Jul 28 08:53:35 <oiami_perl_intern> I'm going to study a master degree this Oct. I'm looking for a some kind of part time job

  Jul 28 08:53:45 <oiami_perl_intern> like work for 5 hours a day

  Jul 28 08:54:13 <oiami_perl_intern> and should be remote work since I have to stay in my university area

  Jul 28 08:54:25 <oiami_perl_intern> is it hard to find a job like that ?

  Jul 28 08:54:51 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: OK, a few initial questions. Do you have a reliable internet connection? Have you told your mentor that you are seeking a job like this?

  Jul 28 08:55:19 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: In my university everyone of the students in their final year is doing this. maybe we are not well informed but ita like a trend

  Jul 28 08:55:19 <aruna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I would be interested in something like that as well.

  Jul 28 08:55:25 <shivani> the reason why i thought so too

  Jul 28 08:55:26 <oiami_perl_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Yes, I have sure

  Jul 28 08:55:37 <oiami_perl_intern> but I haven't ask my mentor about that

  Jul 28 08:56:21 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: I think the students in your university are not the best informed. There's nothing wrong with doing competitive coding but you may wish to try to counter the rumor that it is The Way to get on the recruiting lists for various companies

  Jul 28 08:56:39 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: so I think the first step is for you to tell your mentor what you want

  Jul 28 08:57:05 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: yes, i should probably look more

  Jul 28 08:57:25 <shivani> i would not like to believe that only competitive coding is the way to get a good job too

  Jul 28 08:57:37 <oiami_perl_intern> ok, it was just some thing like I never thought about that before

  Jul 28 08:57:51 <oiami_perl_intern> since the project I'm working on and the my foundation

  Jul 28 08:58:02 <oiami_perl_intern> no one work full time as far as I know

  Jul 28 08:58:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: Your mentor probably has professional connections and can recommend you to their peers in other organizations

  Jul 28 08:58:43 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: It is somewhat harder to find part-time jobs like this than it is to find employment for 40 hours/week -- this is why asking your mentor to ask around for you, and recommend you to their professional networks, is so useful

  Jul 28 08:58:57 <oiami_perl_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: that's good suggestion , I'll try to do that

  Jul 28 08:59:18 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sometimes, if a good person (you) is available, other people create new opportunities to suit them -- opportunities that never got advertised before

  Jul 28 09:00:13 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> also oiami_perl_intern aruna check out https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Opportunities

  Jul 28 09:00:29 <oiami_perl_intern> ok, so how about if I'm looking for the full time work , am I look reliable if I'm study and work 40 hours/week in the point of view of employer ?

  Jul 28 09:01:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: Can you rephrase that in proper English? (good English is going to help you a LOT if you are working remotely as a software engineer)

  Jul 28 09:01:31 <oiami_perl_intern> lol, sorry I will improve that

  Jul 28 09:01:54 <oiami_perl_intern> I meant I think I can work 40 hours/week and study in the same time

  Jul 28 09:01:59 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: does wikimedia foundation take summer interns ?

  Jul 28 09:02:07 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: We do, via GSoC and OPW

  Jul 28 09:02:18 <oiami_perl_intern> but I think employers will not believe me that I can do that or manage my time

  Jul 28 09:02:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: and our non-engineering departments, such as the Legal department, take interns as well

  Jul 28 09:02:43 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: Have you already done that in the past (worked 40 hours/week while studying)?

  Jul 28 09:03:04 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: but they are remote internships, I mean interns who get to work in the office , since that gives one a lot different experience that just remotely working

  Jul 28 09:03:06 <shivani> IMHO

  Jul 28 09:03:44 <oiami_perl_intern> I'm done like worked 40 weeks and part-time job about 15-20 hrs/weeks in the meanwhile

  Jul 28 09:04:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> shivani: You're right; it is a different experience. Right now we do not have any engineering interns who work in the office (we only have 1 office, which is in San Francisco). We may change this at some point in the future, but right now we only have engineering interns via GSoC/OPW/Facebook Open Academy. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs

  Jul 28 09:04:41 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: OK, and what was your courseload during that time?

  Jul 28 09:05:07 <shivani> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I see, havent heard of facebook academy before ! Jul 28 09:05:10 * shivani looks

  Jul 28 09:05:25 <oiami_perl_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: sorry, I'm not sure yet about the course load

  Jul 28 09:06:08 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: I think I misunderstood you then - "I'm done like worked 40 weeks and part-time job about 15-20 hrs/weeks in the meanwhile" - that was in the past tense. How many courses were you taking? how many hours each week were you studying?

  Jul 28 09:07:53 <oiami_perl_intern> ohh, sorry, you meant it the past , I never had full time + study before , but I used work (40 hrs) + part-time (15-20 hrs)

  Jul 28 09:08:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: I strongly suggest you work on your English writing and comprehension skills. It will help you a lot when you seek work.

  Jul 28 09:08:35 <jlawall> in my former university, most of the students worked, maybe 15-20 hours per week

  Jul 28 09:09:04 <jlawall> on the other hand, our department had the worst on-time completion rate in the entire country (around 3%, to my recollection)

  Jul 28 09:09:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> wow!

  Jul 28 09:09:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: Do you have a personal website, with a résumé available where potential employers can look at it?

  Jul 28 09:10:04 <jlawall> working is good because it gives complementary skills, but to get something out of your studies, you have to have time to actually study too, not just be present for class time

  Jul 28 09:10:06 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: that résumé, or accompanying material, would be a good place to mention that you have worked 55-60 hours/week in the past

  Jul 28 09:10:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I agree with jlawall re making time to actually study

  Jul 28 09:10:41 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Listen to her http://www.linux.com/news/special-feature/linux-developers/628861-30-linux-kernel-developers-in-30-weeks-julia-lawall

  Jul 28 09:10:50 <oiami_perl_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I have linkedin and stackoverflow

  Jul 28 09:11:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: do you have a website of your own?

  Jul 28 09:11:49 <oiami_perl_intern> no, I just have a blog

  Jul 28 09:13:50 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I'm awake now, so I can talk about my career if you have time

  Jul 28 09:14:06 * sumanah_wikimedia_mentor looks at http://oiami.blogspot.com/

  Jul 28 09:14:49 <oiami_perl_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: yes , that's mine

  Jul 28 09:16:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: I think often on Blogspot blogs you can add a sort of "about" page/link, right? you may want to do that, or to add more information to your Google+ About page, saying that you are open to offers of part-time work

  Jul 28 09:17:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> also oiami_perl_intern on your LinkedIn can you link to the work you've done? like, link to your commit history?

  Jul 28 09:18:11 <oiami_perl_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: ok, I'll do that

  Jul 28 09:18:54 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: basically I am making suggestions that make it easier for other people to discover your talents and discover that you are available for part-time work and that you would be able to do it even during your academic term

  Jul 28 09:19:31 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: and I suggest you ask your mentor to ask around about part-time Perl work that someone needs someone to do

  Jul 28 09:19:39 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: I can talk now or during tomorrow's Office Hours

  Jul 28 09:20:51 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I can talk now, though since this is a public channel, I should "fuzzify" some of the details

  Jul 28 09:21:09 <oiami_perl_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: thanks for your suggestion, I just have second thought that maybe I should just go ahead to study to improve my English instead

  Jul 28 09:21:47 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I mean, that I would have to discuss the details of working at a private company

  Jul 28 09:22:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> terriyu: I can also private-msg

  Jul 28 09:23:15 <terriyu> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: ok, private msg might be better then

  Jul 28 09:23:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok

  Jul 28 09:36:55 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> OK, 25 min left in the office hours

  Jul 28 09:36:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> for today

  Jul 28 09:37:03 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> tomorrow's are 19:00 UTC - 21:00 UTC Tuesday 29 July (3pm-5pm ET)

  Jul 28 09:43:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I was just reminded of http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FiveWorlds.html

  Jul 28 09:43:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> "we may not have the same goals and requirements. In fact there are several different worlds of software development, and different rules apply to different worlds."

  Jul 28 09:44:00 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> this is 12 years old so I think the world of web apps is super different than Joel portrayed it then but I think there are still useful lessons

  Jul 28 09:45:53 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I have 15 min left today for questions go ahead and ask

  Jul 28 09:49:58 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hey terrrydactyl - you've caught the last 10 min of career office hours!

  Jul 28 09:50:00 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> tomorrow's are 19:00 UTC - 21:00 UTC Tuesday 29 July (3pm-5pm ET)

  Jul 28 09:50:37 <terrrydactyl> ah!

  Jul 28 09:50:43 <terrrydactyl> about to have a meeting

  Jul 28 09:50:43 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> Jobswise I'm thinking of applying for local startup and contract work in the immediate term, and maybe going for something more open source later (after I've had a while longer doing OS).

  Jul 28 09:50:47 <terrrydactyl> maybe tomorow!

  Jul 28 09:50:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: sounds cool! A reasonable plan

  Jul 28 09:51:24 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> also thinking about attending Wikimania, SMWCon and AdaCamp

  Jul 28 09:51:52 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: Yay!

  Jul 28 09:52:09 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> is there a ticket discount for interns at Wikimania?

  Jul 28 09:53:13 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: I don't know. I haven't heard of one. You could ask the organizers.

  Jul 28 09:54:06 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> by the way, for people who are interested in going to conferences - http://jvns.ca/blog/2014/07/25/fork-my-talks/ "if you want to give a talk about how to do data analysis with Python, you too can reuse these materials in any way you see fit!"

  Jul 28 09:54:32 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> Thanks - the timing's a bit tricky with the work I'm doing, but then again it could be a great chance to pick people's brains...

  Jul 28 09:55:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: one always has to balance focus and opportunity .... it is okay to say "I will go next year" if going to a lot of conferences causes more blockage than opportunity

  Jul 28 09:56:28 <terriyu> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: I really enjoyed PyCon, if you like Python

  Jul 28 09:56:56 * sumanah_wikimedia_mentor also liked PyCon a lot

  Jul 28 09:57:26 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: it sounds like you have some conferences in mind because you want to learn more/meet people in some specific communities?

  Jul 28 09:57:32 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> terriyu: One of the companies I'm thinking of applying to uses Python (though also has PHP legacy code), so it's something I might get more into

  Jul 28 09:58:35 <terriyu> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: the Python community is amazing

  Jul 28 09:59:02 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: it is largely about the learning/networking for me. Wikimania's in the UK this year, OTOH I still have lots of work to do

  Jul 28 09:59:10 <terriyu> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: I like the Python language, but I wouldn't call myself a zealot about it. But for me, it's worth sticking with the language because of the community.

  Jul 28 09:59:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> so I'm about to wrap up for today - https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Opportunities is a good thing to look at

  Jul 28 10:00:09 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> terriyu: there's a PyLadies chapter just started up in Edinburgh, which I think I'll go to. Also a few people at the learn programming group I help out at are learning it

  Jul 28 10:02:07 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: you and your mentor are of course the people to decide how to balance focus and opportunity here whatever you choose, I wish you well

  Jul 28 10:02:53 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I will remind people that applications are now open for AdaCamp Berlin & AdaCamp Bangalore http://adainitiative.org/2014/07/applications-open-for-adacamp-berlin-and-adacamp-bangalore/

  Jul 28 10:03:03 <terriyu> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: there were lots of companies recruiting at PyCon

  Jul 28 10:03:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> AdaCamp Berlin will be in Berlin, Germany at the offices of Wikimedia Deutschland on Saturday October 11 and Sunday October 12, 2014.

  Jul 28 10:03:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> AdaCamp Bangalore will be in Bangalore, India at the offices of Red Hat on Saturday November 22 and Sunday November 23, 2014.

  Jul 28 10:03:15 <terriyu> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: but that's the PyCon in North America

  Jul 28 10:03:41 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> any OPW intern has a good shot at getting into AdaCamp

  Jul 28 10:04:00 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> AdaCamp is a conference dedicated to increasing women’s participation in open technology and culture: open source software, Wikipedia and other wiki-related projects, open knowledge and education, open government and open data, open hardware and appropriate technology, library technology, creative fan culture, remix culture, translation/localization/internationalization, and more.

  Jul 28 10:04:08 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> AdaCamp brings women together to build community, share skills, discuss problems with open tech/culture communities that affect women, and find ways to address them.

  Jul 28 10:04:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I've been to 2 AdaCamps and they were great. I was really happy to get to share skills and stories.

  Jul 28 10:04:38 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> There will be more AdaCamps in 2015.

  Jul 28 10:05:36 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: jlawall aruna shivani mvolz I think all of you have heard about AdaCamp? ^

  Jul 28 10:06:55 <jpich> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: I met Becky, the person starting up the PyLadies Edinburgh chapter, at EuroPython last week. She's lovely, I encourage you to go and attend! I'm happy to introduce you to her beforehand if you'd like, too

  Jul 28 10:07:29 <jpich> It'd be cool to share your own OPW experience with the group too, not everyone is aware of the program

  Jul 28 10:08:21 <aruna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: yes I read about it on my local LUG's mailing list, and you were nice enough to send me an email about it as well.

  Jul 28 10:08:23 <terriyu> jpich: apparently, they are really advertising OPW in the Bay Area now. The Women Who Code meetup group there has a four part series on open source, leading up to applying to OPW

  Jul 28 10:08:25 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> jpich: that would be very cool. I'm involved in a few things it would be quite good to link up

  Jul 28 10:08:40 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> aruna: yes, I realized I was being redundant

  Jul 28 10:08:56 <jpich> terriyu: That's pretty cool!

  Jul 28 10:09:07 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I think terrrydactyl has been part of this promotion

  Jul 28 10:09:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (of OPW in the Bay Area)

  Jul 28 10:09:33 <terriyu> I learned of OPW from the Google Open Source manager in Mountain View

  Jul 28 10:09:56 <terrrydactyl> terriyu, i was on the panel!

  Jul 28 10:09:57 <oiami_perl_intern> I'm so happy that AdaCamp happens in the time that I'm in Germany but it happens in the same day with Perl Workshop that I also want to join

  Jul 28 10:10:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oiami_perl_intern: maybe you should try to go to the Bangalore one

  Jul 28 10:10:14 <jpich> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: Sweet! If you'd like to give me your email address in a PM I'll do the introduction

  Jul 28 10:10:21 <terriyu> terrrydactyl: oops, somehow we never met and now I'm in Western Massachusetts

  Jul 28 10:12:01 <terriyu> I have to go back to work on the bug I've been procrastinating on and working in horrible Java

  Jul 28 10:12:14 <terriyu> nice to talk to everyone and I'll be back soon

  Jul 28 10:12:21 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Bye!

  Jul 28 10:12:34 <terriyu> o/

  Jul 28 10:14:29 <aruna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: bye!

  Jul 28 10:14:37 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> See ya aruna!

  Jul 28 10:14:39 <aruna> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: and thanks for the email.

  Jul 28 10:14:41 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor>

2. July 29

• Jul 29 15:00:03 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Hi everyone! welcome to career guidance office hours

  Jul 29 15:00:09 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> which are open for the next 2 hours

  Jul 29 15:00:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Hi, I'm Sumana Harihareswara. I'm @brainwane on Twitter & Identi.ca and I blog at http://www.harihareswara.net/ces.shtml in case you want to see me babble about tech and Star Trek and hiking.

  Jul 29 15:00:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I work at the Wikimedia Foundation and am a mentor in this round.

  Jul 29 15:00:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I'm really interested in helping you, the OPW interns, think about your post-OPW career choices. Apply for a job? Start a business or nonprofit? Seek a grant? Go to Hacker School? Get a degree? Take some time off?

  Jul 29 15:00:10 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> If you don't know what to do after the internship ends, I want to help you think about that and decide.

  Jul 29 15:00:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Here's a good place to start: https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Opportunities

  Jul 29 15:04:25 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern> Hi Sumanah

  Jul 29 15:04:34 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hi there ingrid Queeniebee thepwnco_wikimedia_intern *wave*

  Jul 29 15:04:36 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hi sandaru_Wikimedia_intern!

  Jul 29 15:04:46 <Queeniebee> Hi sumanah_wikimedia_mentor!

  Jul 29 15:04:53 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern> I am an undergraduate in my final year

  Jul 29 15:05:02 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> hello sumanah_wikimedia_mentor!

  Jul 29 15:05:12 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern> I am studying computer science and engineering

  Jul 29 15:05:29 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> cool!

  Jul 29 15:06:04 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> Hello!

  Jul 29 15:06:11 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Hey jlschatz_wikim_intern

  Jul 29 15:07:32 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hi sandaru_Wikimedia_intern sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1 - internet problems?

  Jul 29 15:07:39 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> yeah

  Jul 29 15:07:52 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> My plan A for after my intership was to attend Ada Developers Academy, a year-long software school here in Seattle, WA. Got my rejection letter today. I'm now solidifying my plans B-L.

  Jul 29 15:08:06 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> I think it's ok now

  Jul 29 15:08:07 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlschatz_wikim_intern: my sympathies on the rejection

  Jul 29 15:08:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlschatz_wikim_intern: you've probably heard me talk about http://hackerschool.com/

  Jul 29 15:09:05 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1 - when will you be graduating with your bachelor's degree?

  Jul 29 15:09:14 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> 2014 April

  Jul 29 15:09:24 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> sorry

  Jul 29 15:09:26 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> 2015 April

  Jul 29 15:09:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: What have you enjoyed so far in your internship? What would you like to do more of?

  Jul 29 15:10:06 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: thanks. I thought I was a pretty good candidate but I got a generic rejection letter talking about how much technical apptitude and "characteristics of a successful software developer" the other candidates had. Starting to think my imposter syndrome isn't imposter syndrome but is self-awreness. :/

  Jul 29 15:10:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlschatz_wikim_intern: wtf that is a really weird letter for them to send

  Jul 29 15:10:51 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> would you mind forwarding that to me jlschatz_wikim_intern? sumanah at wikimedia dot org?

  Jul 29 15:10:57 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Yeah, Hackershcool lots so awsome! I've listened to some alums from their on the ruby rogues podcast. It sounds great! :0

  Jul 29 15:11:09 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlschatz_wikim_intern: I learned a lot, and I learned a lot of confidence especially

  Jul 29 15:11:19 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: sure. It's a form letter.

  Jul 29 15:11:38 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> My internship project is also a documentation project. So I love the overall project. It contains communication with others and I like that too.

  Jul 29 15:12:01 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: what have you specifically liked doing?

  Jul 29 15:12:30 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> Even in the university My favourite part was writing the report

  Jul 29 15:13:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (hi fureigh!)

  Jul 29 15:13:11 <fureigh> (hi sumanah_wikimedia_mentor!)

  Jul 29 15:13:25 <fureigh> (thanks for letting me eavesdrop. i’ll speak entirely in parentheticals.)

  Jul 29 15:13:25 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> I specifically like understanding the projects and write about them

  Jul 29 15:14:02 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: sent

  Jul 29 15:14:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Thanks

  Jul 29 15:14:10 <Queeniebee> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: is there a queue or should we just submit questions?

  Jul 29 15:14:17 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: for now, go ahead and ask questions

  Jul 29 15:14:23 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> if I get overwhelmed I will set up a queue

  Jul 29 15:14:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thank you for asking!

  Jul 29 15:14:32 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> (hi fureigh! I follow see you on twitter )

  Jul 29 15:15:33 <Queeniebee> I'm about to start my second year of grad school and want to do another internship before I graduate, in user experience and/or user research

  Jul 29 15:15:37 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlschatz_wikim_intern: fureigh is also talking with me in another medium and they were like "aaaah accidentally quit"

  Jul 29 15:15:59 <fureigh> didn’t mean to run away in response to being twitter discovered!

  Jul 29 15:16:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hahahaha

  Jul 29 15:16:10 * jlschatz_wikim_intern giggles and UNDERSTANDS

  Jul 29 15:16:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: so have you told your mentors about your future interests/goals?

  Jul 29 15:16:18 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> that's a good step to take

  Jul 29 15:16:40 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> also sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1 if you want to work as a technical writer, it's very very important to write proper English

  Jul 29 15:17:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: what timeframe, then - January-May or so?

  Jul 29 15:17:07 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> not yet. but I hope to continue my project even after the internship

  Jul 29 15:17:22 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: have you told your mentor that you want to continue the project after the internship?

  Jul 29 15:17:27 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> yes

  Jul 29 15:17:51 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: great! so, in my opinion, you should also tell your mentors what kind of career you are interested in and ask for their advice as well

  Jul 29 15:18:36 <Queeniebee> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I had been thinking January - May, but after the email Terri sent I am interested in Fall and Winter opportunities as well

  Jul 29 15:18:44 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: does your university offer any career guidance? do they have a career or jobs office or something like that?

  Jul 29 15:18:55 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> there is a career fair

  Jul 29 15:19:21 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: but is there any *ongoing* support, for instance, do they give you practice in interviewing by doing mock interviews?

  Jul 29 15:19:45 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> But the career fair is only for Computer science undergrauates such that the careers they offer is only for developers

  Jul 29 15:20:11 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> there are several modules where they focus on our soft skills

  Jul 29 15:20:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: I think that your university is making a poor choice.

  Jul 29 15:20:18 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> there are mock interviews as well

  Jul 29 15:20:37 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: good, that's good. Do they offer any help with improving your written English?

  Jul 29 15:20:49 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: are there any particular firms or organizations you're interested in?

  Jul 29 15:20:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: or perhaps you're sort of at sea figuring that out as well?

  Jul 29 15:21:41 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: I did a web search for "hci internships" and got http://www.sigchi.org/resources/education/2011-education-project-1/internships which might help you out

  Jul 29 15:21:47 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> there was a technical writing , report writing modules as well. I have completed them in my previous years. They don't let you gradiuate without completing all the soft skill modules.

  Jul 29 15:23:27 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> *graduate

  Jul 29 15:23:36 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> But I think they are not enough

  Jul 29 15:23:41 <Queeniebee> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: not particularly. Looking back at previous participants in OPW I don't want to close myself off to any companies

  Jul 29 15:23:44 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1: your English needs additional work, so I suggest you seek out additional opportunities for improvement, either at your college/university or outside of it. If you can, find someone who will give you very detailed criticism of every sentence you write until you are making < 1 grammatical error per 200 words

  Jul 29 15:23:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> this is a general idea, I am not stating a particular rule

  Jul 29 15:24:10 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> wow that's great

  Jul 29 15:24:27 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> I can use some mentoring on that aspect

  Jul 29 15:25:00 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: so, I am pretty sure Yahoo! Labs in New York City takes interns http://labs.yahoo.com/careers/?section=internship

  Jul 29 15:25:38 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: looks like you can email them to ask them about opportunities

  Jul 29 15:25:54 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: jumping in...let me know if it's queue time :P

  Jul 29 15:26:07 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: I think it is, I'll ping you in 10 min when I am ready - thank you!

  Jul 29 15:26:21 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> ok, sure thing!

  Jul 29 15:26:48 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: and I also suggest you take a look at https://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/opendesign and ask there about what you are looking for Jul 29 15:27:01 * mvolz is now known as mvolz_wikimedia_intern

  Jul 29 15:27:22 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> also Queeniebee https://twitter.com/SecureUsers

  Jul 29 15:28:28 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: check out https://openitp.org/sup/

  Jul 29 15:29:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: OpenITP in New York City is interested in user experience research and testing specifically for privacy tools

  Jul 29 15:29:31 <Queeniebee> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: That is great to know!

  Jul 29 15:30:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> it's worth reading their work, seeing if it is something you would be interested in, and reaching out to them - go to https://wiki.openitp.org/events:techno-activism_3rd_mondays if you can

  Jul 29 15:30:05 <Queeniebee> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I have a question about experience and employment

  Jul 29 15:30:20 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: ok, go ahead

  Jul 29 15:31:07 <Queeniebee> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Do you know for UX and user research positions if it is a big hurdle to get hired if most of your experience is from internships?

  Jul 29 15:31:37 <Queeniebee> I mean relevant employment experience in general

  Jul 29 15:32:07 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: That, I don't know. I'm sorry

  Jul 29 15:32:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: do you have professors you can ask about that?

  Jul 29 15:32:36 <Queeniebee> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Yes I will ask them.

  Jul 29 15:33:09 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: You might also try reaching out to http://people.redhat.com/duffy/ and http://georgiabullen.com/ designers who have worked on OPW stuff before

  Jul 29 15:33:42 <Queeniebee> Okay, I will

  Jul 29 15:33:51 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: and if you find stuff out, report back to the OPW list? others may find your info helpful!

  Jul 29 15:34:17 <Queeniebee> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Yes I will. It is so helpful

  Jul 29 15:34:23 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok, Queeniebee I wish you luck and hope these resources are helpful - please do also check with your university's career office, as they may have information especially about internships

  Jul 29 15:34:37 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and they will probably give you experience with mock interviews, which can be really useful

  Jul 29 15:34:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok thepwnco_wikimedia_intern I think I'm ready for you! ( sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1 please speak up if you are still unsure about a next step to take)

  Jul 29 15:35:20 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> great

  Jul 29 15:35:52 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> so I've really enjoyed my internship and the type of work I've been doing - but I do have a job in a different sector lined up for after the program. It's setting up a small special library for a nonprofit and I'm really excited about it but wondering how to keep a foot in the door with open source?

  Jul 29 15:35:57 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> (especially with a busy schedule)

  Jul 29 15:36:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: nod nod nod. Well first off congrats on having a job lined up!

  Jul 29 15:36:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: what specifically have you enjoyed about your internship?

  Jul 29 15:36:33 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> thanks!

  Jul 29 15:37:22 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> hmm, well a lot of things. I guess the dynamic of working with a large community of volunteers has been really interesting (and novel) - so maybe community management

  Jul 29 15:37:44 <sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1> I get that my next step would be focussing on my English. For that your idea is great. Thank You very much

  Jul 29 15:37:50 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thanks sandaru_Wikimedia_intern1

  Jul 29 15:37:52 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> although writing/improving documentation, and figuring out how things fit together has also been great

  Jul 29 15:39:35 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: ok, and are there specific people you have really loved working with?

  Jul 29 15:39:37 <liangent> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: hi here

  Jul 29 15:39:40 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hi liangent

  Jul 29 15:40:11 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> liangent asked basically: how does an employer determine whether to hire someone? and especially how does Wikimedia Foundation decide?

  Jul 29 15:40:25 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I cannot speak officially for all hiring decisions and I am not Wikimedia Foundation's human resources department

  Jul 29 15:40:42 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> but here's my thinking: there are a bunch of factors

  Jul 29 15:41:05 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> what specific tasks need doing, and how confident are we that this person will be able to do them -- and how much training will they need in order to do them?

  Jul 29 15:41:50 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Does the candidate already know how to collaborate with us and work in our kind of environment, either because we know them as a volunteer, or they've contracted with us before, or have they already worked in a similar environment before -- for example, are they comfortable in videochats and onwiki and in code review and IRC and mailing lists and occasional in-person meetings?

  Jul 29 15:42:19 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Work_with_us - the job openings get more specific about what each job requires

  Jul 29 15:42:45 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> not really specific people - I guess more qualities of communication style and creativity in what they want to do or seen get done

  Jul 29 15:43:12 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> one tricky thing is, when it comes to more junior roles, it's very helpful for the junior person to live in the Bay Area, so they can come into the office every day and learn more effectively, and it's easier for other people to see when they need help and give them quick advice

  Jul 29 15:43:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (or for the junior people to be willing to move to the Bay Area - San Francisco or nearby)

  Jul 29 15:44:44 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: cool! so, what do you think your time availability will be, once you start the new job? will you be available in little bits and bobs throughout the day and throughout the week? do you think you might want to be away from the computer entirely on weekends?

  Jul 29 15:45:46 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> it's hard to say - it's a new job, new city, lots of new. But I like to think there will be bits and bobs throughout the day; likely will want to be screenfree on the weekends

  Jul 29 15:46:07 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> to continue answering liangent -- I am sure I have not been complete in talking about reasons we choose to hire or not hire someone. But has what I said been useful?

  Jul 29 15:46:28 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> I am hoping to use FOSS options for whatever technology I get to make decisions about - and know I'll be working with Drupal for the library's web presence too

  Jul 29 15:46:29 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: so, if you're setting up a small library, then I think you might especially like to look into http://code4lib.org/

  Jul 29 15:47:15 <liangent> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: yeah haven't thought about locations previously. though I'm personally open to relocationing. I like to experience new stuff :p

  Jul 29 15:47:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: there's an IRC channel, a mailing list, a few regional conferences and a yearly conference

  Jul 29 15:47:42 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> liangent: if you're open to relocating it's important to always say that in your job applications

  Jul 29 15:47:54 <Queeniebee> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: congratulations on the position! Just curious are you a librarian?

  Jul 29 15:47:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> because so many people are not open to relocating; the people reading applications do not assume

  Jul 29 15:48:00 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> thanks. I'm familiar with code4lib - and know you gave the keynote last conference

  Jul 29 15:48:13 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: I'm sorry, as soon as I said it I realized you already knew about it

  Jul 29 15:48:33 <liangent> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: hmm as long as I can get a visa :p

  Jul 29 15:48:45 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> right

  Jul 29 15:48:46 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> Queeniebee: thanks! I just graduated from library school... I suppose I am with this new job!

  Jul 29 15:48:56 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Queeniebee: maybe you saw https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Thepwnco she's been published in CHI

  Jul 29 15:50:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: so, using FOSS options wherever you can definitely counts as still keeping a foot in the door with open source. Where physically will you be? I may be able to recommend monthly events or similar things that you could also use to keep in the loop

  Jul 29 15:50:29 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: no problem, it's nice to know non libfolks are a fan. I guess I'm more wondering if I wanted to make a move from libraries to FOSS at some point...would simply using FOSS in an organization count for much? And would not having a huge track record of FOSS contributions count against me?

  Jul 29 15:50:42 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> heh, just what I was thinking

  Jul 29 15:50:47 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> I'll be in Ottawa, ON

  Jul 29 15:51:00 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: there's a yearly Ottawa open source conference

  Jul 29 15:51:08 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> which is not super far from Montreal/Toronto for an occasional meetup

  Jul 29 15:51:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> http://oclug.on.ca/

  Jul 29 15:51:16 <liangent> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: and regarding https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Opportunities and some other collections, I guess a working visa is always something annoying?

  Jul 29 15:51:22 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2014/

  Jul 29 15:51:32 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> liangent: I'm sorry, I don't quite get what you mean?

  Jul 29 15:51:49 <Queeniebee> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: I have the same question re: FOSS contributions

  Jul 29 15:52:15 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: oh, great! thanks for this

  Jul 29 15:52:41 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: yeah, do a few searches on the web and on Lanyrd and meetup.com for "linux" or "open source" for the cities you can easily get to

  Jul 29 15:52:54 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: many FOSS organizations end up hiring people who do not have open source/open culture experience. Wikimedia has hired people who had basically no open stuff experience. So while it definitely helps to have more FOSS experience, you are already ahead of a lot of people

  Jul 29 15:53:03 <liangent> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: sometimes I don't even bother to look into some aboard and non-remote positions because of working visa, even if I can accept relocating

  Jul 29 15:53:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> liangent: well, I think it's worth asking and checking

  Jul 29 15:53:21 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I know it can be tedious.

  Jul 29 15:54:44 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: I think there's a ladder -- using FOSS gives you more experience than not using FOSS, and then participating in online discussion spaces where you talk about it and help other people (like the Drupal forums) "counts" for more, and writing scripts or modifications that you share with others, or filing bugs, "counts" for even more than that, and running trainings or other events - or writing docs ...

  Jul 29 15:54:44 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> . and so on

  Jul 29 15:54:47 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and so on

  Jul 29 15:55:01 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I am not specifying a hierarchy and writing it in stone!

  Jul 29 15:56:03 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: got it, thank you again. All reassuring to know. I realize there is some overlap with library/open tech stuff but sometimes it does feel like I'm being pulled in two directions

  Jul 29 15:56:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: maybe one way to think of it is -- you have many good options

  Jul 29 15:56:32 <maxa_qemu_intern> Hello there.

  Jul 29 15:56:35 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Hi maxa_qemu_intern

  Jul 29 15:56:53 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: so for instance, in your area, you could do what fureigh did and run a Drupal Ladder series of events http://opensourcebridge.org/sessions/1340

  Jul 29 15:57:39 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thepwnco_wikimedia_intern: the code4lib list would actually be a really good place to ask the question you have asked me and they will have interesting answers I bet

  Jul 29 15:58:08 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I hope I will not inerrupt you if ask you to review my cv.

  Jul 29 15:58:34 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> liangent: btw did you notice Mozilla has a Beijing office? https://careers.mozilla.org

  Jul 29 15:59:02 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor fureigh whoa, this looks great.

  Jul 29 15:59:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: I appreciate your concern! I'll check - Queeniebee thepwnco_wikimedia_intern liangent do you have more thoughts/questions/follow-ups?

  Jul 29 15:59:36 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hi sara_mansouri! good to see you!

  Jul 29 15:59:36 <thepwnco_wikimedia_intern> I am good for now thank you

  Jul 29 15:59:39 <sara_mansouri> Hi Sumana, How are you?. I am also thinking about holding a Mozilla event

  Jul 29 15:59:43 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sweet!

  Jul 29 16:01:14 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlschatz_wikim_intern: btw I think they could have worded that rejection better a bit - I think they did not mean to imply that you have NO aptitude/successish characteristics

  Jul 29 16:01:32 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> jlschatz_wikim_intern: have you ever checked out the Felder-Silverman Engineering learning styles? http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/ILSdir/styles.htm

  Jul 29 16:01:48 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I think they may help you think about what to do next in your personal learning journey

  Jul 29 16:01:53 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok maxa_qemu_intern I think I'm ready for you!

  Jul 29 16:02:36 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Thanks for your attention.

  Jul 29 16:02:40 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Sure!

  Jul 29 16:02:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thank you for contributing to free and open source software!

  Jul 29 16:03:24 <sara_mansouri> jlschatz_wikim_intern: this is really helpful to know your learning styles

  Jul 29 16:04:01 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sara_mansouri: I'm doing pretty well. I've been enjoying reading http://planeteria.org/wfs/

  Jul 29 16:04:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: ok, are you ok publicly sharing your CV?

  Jul 29 16:04:23 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I've never been hired directly to international companies, so I have a pilot cv version for this purpose. I would appreciate any feedback that can make this version less clumsy

  Jul 29 16:04:53 <liangent> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: yeah

  Jul 29 16:05:17 <liangent> though I don't like what they produce .. some Firefox China version

  Jul 29 16:05:18 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I don't mind, but I have no place for it, but Google Drive

  Jul 29 16:05:26 <liangent> a firefox with a bunch of strange extensions....

  Jul 29 16:06:05 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: I'm ok with Google Drive. Eventually you will want to put it on your site.

  Jul 29 16:06:45 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Only when I will be sure, that it's readable.

  Jul 29 16:06:54 <maxa_qemu_intern> I will share it in a moment

  Jul 29 16:07:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok!

  Jul 29 16:08:29 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> hiya mindy

  Jul 29 16:08:44 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> liangent: might be worth trying to get an interview anyway

  Jul 29 16:08:46 <mindy> ahoy!

  Jul 29 16:09:51 <sara_mansouri> Hi mindy, how are you doing?

  Jul 29 16:09:54 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Career guidance office hours - 50 min left in today's session

  Jul 29 16:10:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I'm really interested in helping you, the OPW interns, think about your post-OPW career choices. Apply for a job? Start a business or nonprofit? Seek a grant? Go to Hacker School? Get a degree? Take some time off? If you don't know what to do after the internship ends, I want to help you think about that and decide.

  Jul 29 16:10:39 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Thanks for running this! Great info

  Jul 29 16:10:48 <mindy> hi sara_mansouri! doing great, how about you?

  Jul 29 16:11:31 <mindy> sumanah - I'd like to get in the queue? if it's a priority queue, I can be maximally preemptable.

  Jul 29 16:11:53 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: very kind. I say go ahead now, as I think it's taking maxa_qemu_intern a moment to polish her resume so I can look at it

  Jul 29 16:12:44 <mindy> I'm having trouble thinking about what I want to do next and realizing, in the last few conversations with friends that I've had, that it's largely because so many work environments that I've been in have been virulently toxic.

  Jul 29 16:13:01 <sara_mansouri> mindy I'm fine, I've read your blog after OPW

  Jul 29 16:13:05 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> nod nod nod Jul 29 16:13:08 * sumanah_wikimedia_mentor listens to mindy

  Jul 29 16:13:20 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Here it is: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73Fz-156_OcWHR2QVB3YWlJM2s

  Jul 29 16:14:13 <mindy> I've been thinking for a while about hanging out my own shingle, but the kind of programming that I've been doing is a little less amenable to that than (say) web design/programming, and I'm not sure how transferrable my other skills are to consultancy/contracting.

  Jul 29 16:14:49 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok maxa_qemu_intern taking a look now

  Jul 29 16:14:51 <mindy> Basically I want to avoid the situation where I start on a team and slowly realize that it's awful, but feel like I need to stay there for $longtime because $reasons

  Jul 29 16:15:23 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: first off I want to say that overall this is reasonably good

  Jul 29 16:15:30 <jlschatz_wikim_intern> mindy: +1 :/

  Jul 29 16:15:48 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: are you interested in founding a product company/nonprofit?

  Jul 29 16:15:50 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Thank you.

  Jul 29 16:16:20 <mindy> sumanah - I am interested but I guess I feel like I need someone to give me permission or something

  Jul 29 16:16:42 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: I give you permission.

  Jul 29 16:17:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> You're smart, you're a savvy hacker, you have a reasonably good network that will only get better

  Jul 29 16:17:24 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: you can get funding if you want it

  Jul 29 16:17:41 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> you will never have fewer responsibilities and a better appetite for risk than you do now (I am guessing)

  Jul 29 16:18:13 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> you would not be the first founder who said "well I guess if I want a good work env I have to make it myself"

  Jul 29 16:18:18 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> <roll up sleeves>

  Jul 29 16:18:32 <mindy> that is pretty much 100% how I feel about it

  Jul 29 16:19:38 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: My friend Rachel Chalmers http://ignitionpartners.com/team/#/team_member/rachel-chalmers/ wrote this http://modelviewculture.com/pieces/five-reasons-not-to-raise-venture-capital

  Jul 29 16:20:08 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: she's a VC and interested in meeting potential founders if I understand correctly

  Jul 29 16:20:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> feel free to reach out to her and mention I mentioned her

  Jul 29 16:20:25 <mindy> wow, thank you sumanah

  Jul 29 16:20:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Sure! Jul 29 16:20:32 * mindy is looking at her page now

  Jul 29 16:21:03 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ("vc" means "venture capitalist" for those who do not know -- someone who invests early money into a startup)

  Jul 29 16:21:18 <liangent> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: http://www.firefox.com.cn/about/career/#jobs : "familiar with graphical softwares such as illustrator and photoshop" (translated) << they don't use free softwares themselved...

  Jul 29 16:21:34 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> liangent: ORRRRRR they use them internally but do not want to scare off people who have never heard of it

  Jul 29 16:21:55 <liangent>

  Jul 29 16:22:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: also one reason I think you might make a good founder is that you are pretty independent, from my chats with you

  Jul 29 16:22:22 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: you could talk with Sonali about this also

  Jul 29 16:22:26 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: ok, sorry for the delay!

  Jul 29 16:22:58 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: It's okey, I was reading other exciting #opw threads

  Jul 29 16:22:59 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> so first maxa_qemu_intern are you interested in working remotely, relocating, or either/both?

  Jul 29 16:23:11 <mindy> sumanah - yeah, I've been thinking about that too. I've just finally gotten to the point where I can think about career stuff w/o burying face in hands and yelling "NO"

  Jul 29 16:23:23 <mindy> thanks for the advice/encouragement

  Jul 29 16:23:27 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mindy: got it. *sympathy*

  Jul 29 16:23:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> absolutely!

  Jul 29 16:24:47 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Remotely as the first priority, but if I will be offered by a full dish of cookies, I can agree on relocation

  Jul 29 16:25:02 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> oh one more thing mindy if you want to be doing security work and you maybe want to try more contracting-y stuff for a while, https://openitp.org/grants.html is something to keep in mind

  Jul 29 16:25:39 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: you should probably say something in your Summary about that. "full dish of cookies" - you mean, a very good offer?

  Jul 29 16:26:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> "Quality assurance engineer experienced in testing several types of software, including embedded systems and web applications. Skilled in testing automation. Available to relocate or work remotely."

  Jul 29 16:26:59 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: are you going to add your OPW internship to your resume?

  Jul 29 16:27:23 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Sorry, I don't know how to define it better. Like the tasks I will going to do are very interesting.

  Jul 29 16:27:46 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> That's ok maxa_qemu_intern - ok, so, for a very interesting job, you would be interested in relocating. I understand.

  Jul 29 16:27:53 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Yes, when my project will be ready

  Jul 29 16:27:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: Why not now?

  Jul 29 16:29:29 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Well, I didn't use to show something unfinished, usually it's not a good self advertisment.

  Jul 29 16:29:56 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: So, here is a rhetorical question. Is Linux finished?

  Jul 29 16:30:08 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: At least, my previous experience says so

  Jul 29 16:30:42 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: can you talk more about your previous experience in this? I am curious and I think maybe the work culture where you live and the work culture that I am used to are different in this regard.

  Jul 29 16:30:43 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: You caught me.

  Jul 29 16:33:25 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: What I met, it's not appropriate to show some unfinished projects because it shows htat you're too lazy or too unqulified to finish them.

  Jul 29 16:34:29 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I can't say that I have cloudless past

  Jul 29 16:34:37 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: ah I see. OK. I think that it would be bad to show ONLY unfinished projects and give no indication that you are still working on them. But, for example, in the US, I often see CVs or resumes where people talk about something they are currently working on, or say that they are partway through a degree, and give an estimated completion date

  Jul 29 16:35:48 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: so I think it is fine to say, on your CV, that you are partway through a particular project, and to give an estimated completion date, and mention what you have already done

  Jul 29 16:35:58 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> and then update it frequently as you add more achievements

  Jul 29 16:36:36 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Thanks for the advice, I will add that point to my cv.

  Jul 29 16:36:56 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I think giving an estimated completion date makes it look a lot less lazy

  Jul 29 16:37:08 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Sure

  Jul 29 16:37:28 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: are you interested in working again at any of the places you have worked in the past?

  Jul 29 16:38:07 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Well, no, despite that I chances to.

  Jul 29 16:38:18 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: I'm sorry but I do not understand what you said

  Jul 29 16:38:59 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Sorry, I mean, I have chances to return to any of my past job, but I don't want to.

  Jul 29 16:39:04 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Ah okay.

  Jul 29 16:39:10 <maxa_qemu_intern> s/job/jobs/

  Jul 29 16:39:29 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> What are you looking for in your next job, maxa_qemu_intern? I especially want to understand what you want in a next job that you could not get by going back to the old employers

  Jul 29 16:40:20 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Ability to grow as a specialist.

  Jul 29 16:41:04 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: I don't want to bounce to the ceil of needs from my skills after a year or two

  Jul 29 16:41:26 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: do you ever speak at QA conferences?

  Jul 29 16:41:54 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> that's a good way to get discovered as someone who can grow

  Jul 29 16:42:02 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: No, all my conferences were related to image processing and etc

  Jul 29 16:42:16 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: I think you should submit talks to open source conferences and QA/testing conferences

  Jul 29 16:43:03 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> also maxa_qemu_intern if you have spoken at conferences in the past, even if it was about image processing, I think you should put one or two of your favorite or best talks on your CV

  Jul 29 16:43:08 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> or papers you have written

  Jul 29 16:44:20 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: My papers are on Russian, but I can try to translate them for this purpose.

  Jul 29 16:44:39 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: you do not have to translate the entire papers - you can just translate the title and give a link

  Jul 29 16:45:57 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: are you interested in agile testing? http://www.agiletestingdays.com/

  Jul 29 16:46:42 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> so, we have 15 min left and I can probably talk to 1 or 2 more people

  Jul 29 16:46:51 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Do you mean this event or agile as technique?

  Jul 29 16:47:13 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: I meant, are you interested in agile technique. But I also wanted to point you to that event in case you want to go.

  Jul 29 16:48:28 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Thanks for notification. And I have experience in the agile and waterfall both.

  Jul 29 16:49:13 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Yet another point for cv, right?

  Jul 29 16:49:32 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> maxa_qemu_intern: yup!

  Jul 29 16:50:57 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Thans a lot for your review and your help.

  Jul 29 16:51:05 <maxa_qemu_intern> s/thans/thanks/

  Jul 29 16:51:09 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> mindy: avoiding toxic work environments +∞

  Jul 29 16:51:22 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor>

  Jul 29 16:51:25 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Sorry, it's late night in St.Petersburg

  Jul 29 16:51:29 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> it's ok maxa_qemu_intern

  Jul 29 16:51:36 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> Zhelaiu udachi

  Jul 29 16:52:00 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Just thank you one more time.

  Jul 29 16:52:22 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> mnye nravitsya pomozh!

  Jul 29 16:52:27 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> if that makes any sense

  Jul 29 16:52:33 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> (it pleases me to help)

  Jul 29 16:53:02 <maxa_qemu_intern> sumanah_wikimedia_mentor: Your transliteral skills are amazing! Jul 29 16:53:15 * sumanah_wikimedia_mentor laughs happily

  Jul 29 16:53:32 <mindy> ali_king: thanks. it's good to take these issues out of the background imo

  Jul 29 16:55:56 <mindy> also, hi mort

  Jul 29 16:55:58 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> I remind all of you of https://wiki.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Opportunities

  Jul 29 16:55:59 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> mindy: I've just come out of a bad startup situation which has certainly given me a list of things to avoid in future

  Jul 29 16:56:15 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: if you feel comfortable sharing that list, here or on the opw list, that would help some folks

  Jul 29 16:56:50 <mindy> ali_king: ugh, I'm sorry that you had to discover those things that way

  Jul 29 16:57:25 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> the toxic environment red flag list... could be a blogpost too

  Jul 29 16:57:30 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> yesSsSsssSSs

  Jul 29 16:57:36 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> sorry, I mean, emphatic yet

  Jul 29 16:57:38 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> yes*

  Jul 29 16:58:06 <ali_king_wikimedia_intern> would be good to compile it collaboratively

  Jul 29 16:58:29 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ali_king_wikimedia_intern: it's also ok to just post yours and then update with links to other people's posts

  Jul 29 16:59:33 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> ok, I'm heading off

  Jul 29 16:59:35 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> thanks everyone!

  Jul 29 16:59:40 <mindy> thanks for your time, sumanah!

  Jul 29 16:59:44 <sumanah_wikimedia_mentor> will be posting the transcripts on the wiki.