Jun 10 07:56:34 * Now talking on #a11y Jun 10 07:56:34 * Topic for #a11y is: Visit us at http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility | New weekly meeting times to be announced soon | See our latest meeting summary at http://bit.ly/ctMqVI | Follow us on Twitter: @gnome_a11y | Subscribe to our mailing list at http://is.gd/bmcWR Jun 10 07:56:34 * Topic for #a11y set by Bryen at Sat Apr 10 00:34:07 2010 Jun 10 07:56:34 * morbo gives channel operator status to API Jun 10 07:58:28 * fer (~fer@218.229.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #a11y Jun 10 07:58:56 morning Jun 10 08:00:04 * mgorse (mgorse@192.94.73.30) has joined #a11y Jun 10 08:00:04 * morbo gives channel operator status to mgorse Jun 10 08:01:42 morning Jun 10 08:02:09 morning is a relative term ;-) Jun 10 08:02:39 * raywang has quit (Leaving) Jun 10 08:02:59 so lets say Jun 10 08:03:00 hia Jun 10 08:03:02 hi Jun 10 08:03:19 :-) thank you. Jun 10 08:03:49 API btw, my connection has been uber flakey. So if I come and go.... Well, my apologies in advance. Jun 10 08:04:07 * TheMuso waves Jun 10 08:04:08 you come and go... Jun 10 08:04:18 wasn't it the karma chamaleon lyrics? Jun 10 08:04:36 fer: yes, I believe it was. ;-) Jun 10 08:04:45 lovely! Jun 10 08:05:08 easy come, easy go Jun 10 08:05:16 queen! Jun 10 08:05:16 also Bohemian Rhapsody lyrics Jun 10 08:05:18 anyway Jun 10 08:05:23 * li_afk is now known as li Jun 10 08:05:29 love Bohemian Rhapsody! Jun 10 08:05:39 we have used already 5 minutes of the meeting Jun 10 08:05:46 I think that we can start Jun 10 08:06:09 yesterday I sent the rough agenda in a rush Jun 10 08:06:44 peter korn sent a mail saying that he is not coming Jun 10 08:06:56 but we can talk about AEGIS anyway Jun 10 08:07:10 fer, anything new about CENATIC funding? Jun 10 08:07:27 today they publish the official tender Jun 10 08:07:28 * joanie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 10 08:07:30 let me check Jun 10 08:07:42 I was talking with chema, and they pretend to ask this help also for GUADEC-ES Jun 10 08:07:48 not online yet Jun 10 08:07:50 as he said in the mail list Jun 10 08:08:09 yeah, we need to clarify if the same organization can ask for 2 separate sponsorships Jun 10 08:08:28 if not, we should try to get it through another organization Jun 10 08:08:34 any ideas for this? Jun 10 08:08:42 (Spanish organization) Jun 10 08:08:49 * joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y Jun 10 08:08:50 * morbo gives channel operator status to joanie Jun 10 08:09:18 the issue is that a organization like GNOME hispano is the ideal Jun 10 08:09:20 imho Jun 10 08:09:27 to ask for this funding Jun 10 08:09:44 let me check previous organizations granted with funds Jun 10 08:09:53 anyway, chema told me that shouldn't be a problem to ask for 2 separate sponsorships Jun 10 08:10:35 a company can ask for it also Jun 10 08:10:39 so ir could be a backup Jun 10 08:11:12 fer, is juanje here? I dont know his nick Jun 10 08:11:15 anyway I think we should prepare the paperwork regardless who is going to finally ask for it Jun 10 08:11:26 nop, he had to take a train at 7am Jun 10 08:12:42 a paperwork with "insert organization here" holes Jun 10 08:12:57 ok, you are volunteering ? Jun 10 08:13:05 ok, I can do it Jun 10 08:13:24 * rmunoz_ (~rmunoz@83.51.225.7) has joined #a11y Jun 10 08:13:57 ok awesome Jun 10 08:14:03 hmm Bryen is not here Jun 10 08:14:19 * slee (~chatzilla@84.12.245.245) has joined #a11y Jun 10 08:14:20 joanie, you know if he couldn't assist? Jun 10 08:14:38 assist whom with what? Jun 10 08:14:44 ups Jun 10 08:14:46 I mean Jun 10 08:14:48 attend Jun 10 08:14:49 :) Jun 10 08:14:54 yeah :P Jun 10 08:15:08 I had forgotten about that until now but I think he said he wouldn't be here Jun 10 08:15:15 ok Jun 10 08:15:15 * slee sorry late - connectivity Jun 10 08:15:31 Bryen wanted to talk about funding Jun 10 08:15:49 trying to get funds elsewhere, although I don't remember Jun 10 08:15:54 exactly his idea Jun 10 08:16:54 yeah, he also wanted some local people from Seville to try to help with the location Jun 10 08:17:25 fer, afaik right now you are living in Madrid Jun 10 08:17:41 have you talked with juanje? Jun 10 08:17:51 Hi Jun 10 08:17:52 yeah, Bryen sent an email to Peter K. saying danigm and me were in Seville Jun 10 08:17:54 sorry I'm late Jun 10 08:18:03 in my case that is not correct :) Jun 10 08:19:03 yes, this is the reason I wanted to confirm that Jun 10 08:19:27 so who people in this meeting is living in Seville? Jun 10 08:19:31 aleiva, danigm ? Jun 10 08:19:43 o/ Jun 10 08:20:01 AFAIK danigm, Juanje and me Jun 10 08:21:16 ok, so paraphrasing fer words: Jun 10 08:21:39 yeah, he also wanted some local people from Seville to try to help with the location Jun 10 08:22:04 no problem with that Jun 10 08:23:11 ok, so you are volunteering I guess Jun 10 08:23:19 yes Jun 10 08:23:23 try to get in contact with peter korn as he already Jun 10 08:23:25 I think that Juanje too Jun 10 08:23:36 has coordinating a lot of stuff Jun 10 08:23:49 like the place to run the hackfest and so on Jun 10 08:24:02 the first thing could be confirm the place ;) Jun 10 08:24:15 here http://www.aegis-project.eu/ Jun 10 08:24:17 just says Jun 10 08:24:20 "Seville" Jun 10 08:24:55 ok, we'll get in touch with Peter Korn Jun 10 08:25:45 ok, we have talked about funding and about local involvement Jun 10 08:25:45 * joanie thanks aleiva and juanje for being willing to help with this Jun 10 08:25:55 anything else about AEGIS hackfest? Jun 10 08:26:21 API: we need to figure out a schedule, but we can do that when you and I have some time Jun 10 08:27:05 yeah its true, the agenda Jun 10 08:27:06 * joanie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 10 08:27:10 we could try to Jun 10 08:27:11 ups Jun 10 08:27:22 easy go Jun 10 08:27:46 well, my idea, for the ones listening could try to create an agenda Jun 10 08:27:54 fill live.gnome.org Jun 10 08:28:02 and ask people about it Jun 10 08:28:17 * joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y Jun 10 08:28:17 * morbo gives channel operator status to joanie Jun 10 08:28:23 an easy come Jun 10 08:28:24 * joanie sighs Jun 10 08:28:29 sorry Jun 10 08:29:08 API: umh, we know how many people will assist to hackfest? Jun 10 08:29:08 np, we haven't advance too much Jun 10 08:29:22 aleiva, there are a Jun 10 08:29:29 "hope to attend" section on Jun 10 08:29:32 http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/HackfestAEGIS2010 Jun 10 08:29:48 BTW: all people, if you hope to attend, please write down your name here Jun 10 08:30:00 API: yeah, I know, but if we published this thing maybe some people assit without sign at l.g.o Jun 10 08:30:04 ups, you already know ;) Jun 10 08:30:23 has anyone blogged on p.g.o about it? Jun 10 08:30:33 fer, Jun 10 08:30:34 http://blogs.igalia.com/apinheiro/2010/06/04/would-you-like-to-go-a-gnome-accessibility-hackfest-in-seville/ Jun 10 08:31:17 * fer goes for pizza Jun 10 08:31:31 fer API tends to be very on top of things :-) Jun 10 08:32:31 * API hmm, pizza for breakfast Jun 10 08:32:45 If cold, its excellent for breakfast. Jun 10 08:32:48 Also depends on the topping. Jun 10 08:32:57 well, anything else about AEGIS/GNOME hackfest? Jun 10 08:35:55 three minutes, no answer Jun 10 08:35:57 lets move Jun 10 08:36:26 slee, anything new about OUTREACH or HFOSS? Jun 10 08:36:54 nothing to report this week Jun 10 08:37:55 * slee just spotter hackfest clashes with AAATE workshop - rats Jun 10 08:39:23 w.r.t. HFOSS.... Jun 10 08:39:27 * juanje (~juanje@77.229.151.68) has joined #a11y Jun 10 08:39:30 are we doing it for sure? Jun 10 08:39:53 the one thing I'm concerned about is that if we seem flakey and disorganized, we might lose this connection Jun 10 08:41:20 That's a valid concern - I don't know. When is Bryen back in contact? Jun 10 08:41:55 probably you should ask Bryen about it Jun 10 08:42:13 "you" == me? Jun 10 08:42:24 if so, yeah. Probably so... Jun 10 08:44:17 * joanie is done asking questions (sorry) Jun 10 08:45:56 slee, you have already tried the second Outreach meeting? Jun 10 08:46:09 afaik, you just made one, and trying to organize a second one Jun 10 08:48:48 well, no answer ;) just 10 minutes left Jun 10 08:48:59 API yes - we need to arrange a date - I'm swamped with a conference at the mo but will ping Jun 10 08:48:59 lets try to move Jun 10 08:49:01 ups Jun 10 08:49:13 ok Jun 10 08:49:20 so lets move Jun 10 08:49:35 we can try a quick review for any topics of "the list" Jun 10 08:49:47 but if anyone has a better idea Jun 10 08:50:22 mgorse, are you here Jun 10 08:50:29 did you read last comment in this bug? Jun 10 08:50:32 I'm here Jun 10 08:50:37 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=619946#c8 Jun 10 08:53:41 mgorse, ? Jun 10 08:55:10 li, you also answered my original mail about this issue Jun 10 08:55:17 do you have any opinion? Jun 10 08:55:39 when I said my original mail, I mean this old mail Jun 10 08:55:40 * joanie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 10 08:55:51 http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2009-August/msg00019.html Jun 10 08:56:45 * joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y Jun 10 08:56:45 * morbo gives channel operator status to joanie Jun 10 08:56:51 Seems we have two separate problems: the location of the module, and that the way the AtkUtil class is implemented/used can cause problems Jun 10 08:57:00
  • API, I am not in the cc list of this bug Jun 10 08:57:18 mgorse, yeah, this is what doffm sumarizes in his answer Jun 10 08:57:26
  • API, let me see the bug first Jun 10 08:57:34 li, yeah, just gently asking to read the comment and give any opinion ;) Jun 10 08:57:35 thanks Jun 10 08:57:55 mgorse, anyway, apart from AtkUtil issues Jun 10 08:58:08 being able to find the bridge Jun 10 08:58:14 easily could help things Jun 10 08:58:38 as I said in the bug, I really doubt that we could manage Jun 10 08:58:45 due manpower, and time constraints Jun 10 08:58:51 a revision of the current ATK Jun 10 08:58:52 * joanie has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 10 08:59:19 But surely for example, when QT comes along, they will have their own module/hook that will talk to at-spi over dbus, so why is this even an issue? Jun 10 08:59:29 * TheMuso hasn't read the full bug yet. Jun 10 08:59:40 Would having it in, say, $libdir/atspi make things easier than having it i the gtk directory? Jun 10 09:00:01 * joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y Jun 10 09:00:01 * morbo gives channel operator status to joanie Jun 10 09:00:42 mgorse, not sure, this is one of the reasons I'm asking for opinions ;) Jun 10 09:00:43 * joanie has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 10 09:01:12 the issue is that we need a proper and easy to find place to find the module Jun 10 09:01:23 Seems like we're depending either way on the prefix at build time Jun 10 09:01:43 TheMuso, I don't understand your reasoning Jun 10 09:02:20 API: As I said, I haven't read the full bug. I am just wondering why we are considering moving the at kinterface from the GTK modules directory, especially since QT will likely have their own hook Jun 10 09:02:26 * joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y Jun 10 09:02:26 * morbo gives channel operator status to joanie Jun 10 09:02:53 hmm, sorry I'm somewhat disconnected from how Qt is implementing a11y support Jun 10 09:02:54 * joanie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 10 09:03:06 I suppose that this means that they will not implement ATK Jun 10 09:03:19 and one of the reasons of at-spi split into core and atk, right? Jun 10 09:03:33 TheMuso: atk toolkits other than GAIL (cally, UiaAtkBridge, FF, need to load the module manually and need to be able to find it Jun 10 09:03:57 mgorse: ah ok that makes sense Jun 10 09:03:58 API: yeah, QT has its own bridge, that doffm has worked on Jun 10 09:04:52 or, I should say, it is bridging directly to at-spi Jun 10 09:06:17 well, mgorse, li if you conclude something, or want to add extra information, Jun 10 09:06:29 I would be very grateful if you add something in the bug Jun 10 09:06:39 any idea is welcome Jun 10 09:06:40
  • API, have you tried the GTK_PATH? Jun 10 09:06:41 Anyway, we are out of time. Jun 10 09:06:51 li, this is other option Jun 10 09:07:02 but you don't have always GTK_PATH set Jun 10 09:07:44 in fact Jun 10 09:07:51 one of the advantages of use gtk_find_modules Jun 10 09:08:03 is that this method already tries GTK_PATH Jun 10 09:08:17 I mean that if you want to search for a gtk module Jun 10 09:08:21 this method is the ideal one Jun 10 09:08:37 * slee has quit (ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]) Jun 10 09:08:45
  • java-atk-wrapper has the similar problem Jun 10 09:09:01
  • the same problem Jun 10 09:09:28 * jrocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y Jun 10 09:09:35 * jrocha has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 10 09:09:37 * j-rocha (~JRocha@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com) has joined #a11y Jun 10 09:09:49 * j-rocha is now known as jrocha Jun 10 09:10:09 li, it also need to load by hand atk-bridge, guessing where it is? Jun 10 09:10:35
  • yes, currently it gets the location from GTK_PATH Jun 10 09:10:38 BTW: people, I can conclude that the meeting is over (10 minutes over time) Jun 10 09:10:59 li, so you need to be sure that the environment has set the proper GTK_PATH? Jun 10 09:11:34
  • for now it works for us Jun 10 09:12:09 We could set a g_settings key for the location of atk-bridge perhaps Jun 10 09:12:11
  • have you found and exception? Jun 10 09:12:33 exception? what do you mean? Jun 10 09:12:44
  • I mean GTK_PATH is not working Jun 10 09:12:51 GTK_PATH is unset by default, for me at least, so gtk reverts to using some kind of predefined logic to look for modules Jun 10 09:13:32 yeah, this is what I mean Jun 10 09:13:40 by default I don't have a GTK_PATH Jun 10 09:13:56 we should ensure to set that Jun 10 09:14:33 * joanie (~jd@c-98-217-239-60.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #a11y Jun 10 09:14:34 * morbo gives channel operator status to joanie Jun 10 09:15:29 here http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/gtk-running.html Jun 10 09:15:31 the policy Jun 10 09:15:37 (on GTK_PATH description) Jun 10 09:16:52 li, you manually set GTK_PATH in your environment? Jun 10 09:17:16
  • no, seems it works on OpenSolaris Jun 10 09:18:39 hmm, odd Jun 10 09:18:45 anyway, thanks for the hint Jun 10 09:18:55 I will try it, Jun 10 09:19:08 although as mgorse said, afaik, it is unset by default Jun 10 09:19:26
  • I will check if I modified something... Jun 10 09:20:05 * juanje (~juanje@77.229.151.68) has left #a11y Jun 10 09:20:20
  • maybe a g_settings key as mgorse said? Jun 10 09:21:51 li, yes, this is another option Jun 10 09:22:38 * rmunoz_ has quit (leaving) Jun 10 09:23:34 * sshaw has quit (Ex-Chat) Jun 10 09:24:16 well, just another reminder: the meeting is over Jun 10 09:24:23 I will try to summarize all this soon Jun 10 09:24:32 and uplad it to the minutes section Jun 10 09:24:43 thanks all Jun 10 09:24:44 thanks API! Jun 10 09:26:03
  • thanks API Jun 10 09:26:13 * li is now known as li_afk