hi everyone! we have a gnome 3 user session in here in about 10 minutes hope you're all primed and ready :) <-- komputes has quit (I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.) fabio27 has quit (Remote closed the connection) jclinton has quit (Ex-Chat) aday: I see it all worked out CyBeR CyBeRino CyBeR: yep! thanks for your help --> fabio27 (~fabio@84-73-220-248.dclient.hispeed.ch) has joined #gnome looks like it's time to start anybody here for the user session? aday: hi --> nate (~nate@96.26.10.166) has joined #gnome sebsebseb: hey sebsebseb: anything you want to know about gnome 3? we were really busy earlier! maybe everyone's had their questions answered already ;) so are there logs? aday: and I was there a little before aday: KDE has a nice calender feature, that shows events and such for different counteries, would be nice if Gnome Shell had something like that in the future nate: i put them up here for now - http://live.gnome.org/ThreePointZero/UserDays/2011-02-15/ alrighty I just have one question, what about the performance with nvidia drivers? nate: they're a bit noisy. i'm hoping to summarise the most interesting bits I did not try the latest builds of gnome 3, but the old ones I tried was laggy on nvidia --> momiti (5c057796@ircip2.mibbit.com) has joined #gnome hello a3Dman: things have got a lot better of late. depends on the driver in question aday: also maybe not quite the best place for features requests for future versions, but I would love a good built in background changer slideshow, similar to what KDE has really bruce89: hi <-- rego has quit (Leaving) a3Dman: but things are much faster in general aday, the proprietary nvidia driver aday, is there any easy way to try new git snapshots? hi guys I got lost with jhbuild ;) <-- geaaru has quit (Leaving) momiti, bruce89: hi, welcome! I wonder where i can get the test live cd? a3Dman: i *hear* that the proprietary drivers aren't so good aday, it's the only way so far :/ momiti: http://www.gnome3.org/tryit.html Hi * nate has read quickly through the logs --> gd808mobile (~gd808mobi@m460436d0.tmodns.net) has joined #gnome a3Dman: things are getting better in the driver department. keep trying - we'll get there Ooops, I did try that link 2 times but it's stuck with black screen aday, I use gallium3d on my old AGP nv4a card, it's awesome, but its support for nv5x is bad fruza: hi okay, seems like we have a few people here now aday, thanks for making things clear :) I would like to know if gnome3 is going to have something like group policies in windows a3Dman: you can get better driver info in #gnome-shell I really like gnome desktop, but since ubuntu is shifting to unity! I wonder how things will go for gnome? I think I will give a try for the latest changes and then ask if I face problems Aloha from Hawaii hello! --> cygwinports (~Yaakov@S0106000cf16f58b1.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #gnome ok, something I didn't see in the earlier sessions:: what's the current status of Zeitgeist / GAJ? I see conflicting statements in individual blogs/planets ok, since we have a few people here, i'd like to make a request --- aday has changed the topic to: GNOME 3 User Day today on this channel! Please ask questions in #gnome3questions. Session times (UTC): 07:00-08:00, 15:00-16:00, 23:00-24:00 More info: http://bit.ly/iiBG59 if you have a question to ask, ask it in #gnome3questions then i can go through the list and answer each one separately ? then why are we here? nate: i'll give the answers here #gnome3questions is *just* for questions everybody ok with that? sure ;) it strikes me as complicated, but I'll play along nate: i know - things got a bit messy in the last session though ok, first up! : what's the current status of Zeitgeist / GAJ? I see conflicting statements in individual blogs/planets that's a tricky one - not sure of the answer there i know the zeitgeist people have been doing some work on gnome shell integration <-- gd808mobile has quit (AndroIRC) i haven't seen anyone in gnome shell saying 'we want this' - maybe they have their own plans? i don't know nate: so sorry about that. most of us in gnome don't know what's happening with it either <-- jjmarin (~jjmarin@84.125.142.134.dyn.user.ono.com) has left #gnome what i can tell you is that we will definitely have document search in gnome 3 at some point in the future so no telling if it will ship with 3.0? nate: not as far as i can tell ok nate: it won't oh! there we go :) fmuellner is a gnome shell developer aday: (in 3.0, no idea about 3.2) fmuellner: you know what the reason is? maybe he doesn't know... work on integrating zeitgeist into gnome-shell didn't really take off until ~3 weeks till ui freeze fmuellner: ah right - it's all coming a bit late so too little time for shell designers to actually update the (ancient) document-related designs nate: so, the answer is not 3.0, but maybe 3.2 <-- aliva has quit (Connection timed out) let's move on... next question: what should packagers look out for when first shipping 3.0 any devs want to have a go at answering that one?! <-- momiti has quit (http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) --> aliva (~aliva@94.183.164.124) has joined #gnome <-- glunardi has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) cygwinports: what i can tell you is that we have a migration guide for gtk - http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-migrating-2-to-3.html that should be useful cygwinports: are there any specific issues you're thinking of? e.g. there was some back-and-forth re. gtk-update-icon-cache cygwinports: i'd recommend #gnome-hackers or #gtk+ for that kind of information --> orak3l (~orak3l@f048170026.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #gnome glunardi (~glunardi@130.57.22.201) has joined #gnome i'm sure there will be more documentation in the future cygwinports: gtk3 has an option to not build gtk-update-icon-cache that was the final conclusion? --> barcode_ (~ollo@123.118.86.38) has joined #gnome cygwinports: i'll leave you to follow that one up, if that's ok next question! Gnome 3 Performance?? it's gonna be fast as gnome2 ? virusuy: so, a lot of our tech has had performance enhancements for gnome 3 so you should see things like faster application startup and better graphics performance and we've opened the door for more optimisation in the future but performance is complicated, and we're doing more, and it comes down to hardware and graphics --> gd808mobile (~gd808mobi@m460436d0.tmodns.net) has joined #gnome but you should certainly see some improvements next! what's the rationale for zooming-in-and-cropping-off the "current app" icon in the top-panel? it makes many icons hard to distinguish from each other i don't know this one for certain, but i've got a pretty good idea is it "because we can"? i suspect that one reason is to soften the appearance of the icon no ;) riiiiight ... :) one thing that we've tried to do with the panel is to style it so that it sits in the background you see that with the colour of it, for example so when you have your windows, you focus on the windows and not and the decoration around them having a full icon would really stand out there seriously, then why do we need it at all? nate: because you need a consistent way to access parts of the system, and you need a visual anchor for the different views we've got going on I find that logic tenuous at best; the notification / menu icons aren't "softened" there has to be one thing that is always there - otherwise users get lost nate: no, but they're small and use a limited colour palette <-- aliva has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) imagine if you replaced them with big solid icons that have different colours and how about the *actual* windows? an icon is more distracting than they are? <-- highvoltage has quit (leaving) Claudinux has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) nate: i'm not following you. the whole point is to let people focus on the windows even if I found that convincing, which I don't, the fact cropping out 40% of the icon makes it visually confusing nate: that's a valid argument - file a bug and we can discuss it there --> keret (d83a388c@ircip3.mibbit.com) has joined #gnome you're suggesting that having a blurry, cropped-out 24px icon is *more* distracting than a full icon of the same size nate: for what it's worth, we used to have a smaller non-cropped icon there aday, I'll be happy to - just wanted to ask about it "live" first nate: i speculated that that is the design rationale. i personally didn't design that I couldn't find discussion of it in the docs.... feel free to file the bug - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/ . that would be a really useful contribution can-do :) nate: i don't recall exactly what problems the designers had, i think it had to do with the icon being disconnected from the application menu --> aliva (~aliva@94.183.164.124) has joined #gnome aday: jeremy perry did nate: great :) fmuellner: thanks! moving on... I would like to know if gnome3 is going to have something like group policies in windows. Something to limit features to users fruza: you thinking about administration stuff? yes, of course fruza: i'm not aware of any particular changes there --> cornair (~chris@dslb-088-073-132-123.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #gnome fruza: i should imagine that shell extensions will give you some useful possibilities though <-- orospakr has quit (Coyote finally caught me) I have implemented linux terminals based on LTSP in my work with gnome and this is something I'm very interested. To be able to restrict the user to see/modify things in the desktop <-- virusuy has quit (Saliendo) fruza: i'd recommend asking on #gnome-hackers or gnome list if you want to take that further i'm sure someone will help you out ok, thanks very much aday fruza: sorry i don't have anything more specific to tell you :) another question: what scripting languages can be used to write GTK+ 3 / Gnome Apps? lithpr: hi again :) (sorry, lots of questions) lithpr: that's good :) the good news is that bindings for our scripting languages have been improved for gnome 3 gobject-introspection means that bindings are almost automatic the other thing is that we're using javascript more and more on the desktop so you can write gnome shell extensions in javascript, which is pretty cool <-- nacho has quit (Remote closed the connection) armin has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) what's the roadmap for gnome-shell extensions? that's a good one there will be basic support in 3.0 - just the foundations really --> Pranav_rcmas (~prp_rcmas@117.193.198.38) has joined #gnome and there have already been discussions about how we want distribution and installation to happen the rough idea at the moment is to have a firefox-style website where you can browse and install extensions asking when something will happen is always a tricky one i would be suprised if you didn't see some developments here in 3.2 though right. well, is there an API defined, for instance? <-- Affix has quit (Remote closed the connection) fmuellner can probably tell you more my understanding is that the basics are there, but there are few more nuts and bolts --> dj11 (bea60572@ircip3.mibbit.com) has joined #gnome nate: no, at least not yet Does Gnome shell work on both open source drivers (like nouveau) and proprietary drivers (from Nvidia, ATI, Intel)? On which drivers does it work best on? and is 3D acceleration required (like thorugh Opengl)? I know these are a lot of questions but I am always interested about the graphics stuff. nate: hooks are added on demand, really nate: (note that extensions can basically access everything already, there's just no guarantee on API stability) keret: hey! i'll answer that question once we've got through the others (questions can be asked in #gnome3questions - we'll answer them here) fmuellner, do you know of anybody working on actual extensions yet? nate: there are some out there - the shell mailing list has details k nate: got a particular extension in mind? nate: as we lack a better place to collect them atm, there's a repository at http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell-extensions aday, not really; just wondering cool ok :) Does gnome 3 have special support for tablets? Like tap gestures that replace mouse buttons. yep, good question <-- JPohlmann has quit (JPohlmann) we have some improvements which are a step in the direction of multitouch and gnome shell is designed to be touch-friendly gd808mobile: but we don't have actual touch support in gnome yet will gnome be good to control via keyboard (remote control)? though i know ubuntu have some gnome apps working with touch dj11: i'll answer that in a sec next up - Will Gconf be used for keeping configuration for gnome shell? keret: no, dconf will! :D keret: unfortunately, right now we use both (gconf for keybinding configuration, which is shared with metacity - which has not been ported to dconf yet, so ...) that's the more complicated answer! so gconf will still be present in gnome 3? <-- feuloren has quit (Ex-Chat) fabio27: at least in 3.0, but certainly not the whole 3.x lifetime we're making good progress there, but it's a big job getting close to the end now! <-- dj11 has quit (http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) When do you think most Desktop Linux distros that use Gnome, will be doing Gnome 3 by default? and why? ha! --> dj11 (ba061f5a@ircip2.mibbit.com) has joined #gnome <-- ignacius has quit (Ex-Chat) that's a big question to answer on irc! true... sebsebseb: i don't think anybody knows the answer to that question right now will there be a possibility to control the keyboard via http? <-- Silverfish has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) I think quite a few will provide Gnome 2.32.2 for a while yet sebsebseb: yes, you're probably right --> Silverfish (~Silverfis@c-3071e353.5664428--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #gnome gnome 3 is a big technology shift. it's natural that there will be a delay for some distros I think ArchLinux will do it right there will be options to use it though <-- gusnan has quit (Lämnar) maybe a year or so after the Gnome 3 release, before most of the popular ones use it instead of Gnome 2 by default, the popular ones at least, but intersting times coming up and Gnome 3 is one of the reasons why :) personally, i think gnome 3 is very compelling - so i think that distros *should* make the switch as soon as they're able but i can't predict what they'll do <-- uv_ has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) a3Dman: I think Fedora will do Gnome 3 right sebsebseb: yes, we know that. there will be others too yep :) ok, we're pretty much at the end now dj11 had some questions about keyboards, and then i think i'll have to call it a night thanks for coming everyone; i hope this was interesting and useful Thanks aday and the rest of you! <-- Pranav_rcmas has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) yeah, thanks for taking the time everybody Thanks aday and others invovled with this :) <-- nixoeen has quit (nixoeen) yep, and feel free to come by again :) and thanks to the Gnome 3 developers as well :) thanks aday for making things clear <-- gd808mobile has quit (AndroIRC) dj11: so, about keyboards... dj11: i don't know anything about the communication side - i mainly do design djcb dj11 oh ok but one question dj11: was it mainly the connection stuff you're interested in+ ? yes i would like to control the entire gnome system only via keyboard because sometimes my mouse gets stuck and i found some good remote programms for j2me dj11: work on keyboard navigation is not complete yet, but it is getting there ok thx for the answer :) On the subject of keyboards, I assume there will be a easy way to change keyboard language layout, like Gnome 2 :) --> Company (~Company@e177067098.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #gnome yeah theres one thing i'm interested to in gnome 3 the unity thin i mean sebsebseb: works on my machine for example will you be able to costumize it? i mean if the USER will be able to custumize it, i wanted to say. aday: I still haven't tried later/latest Gnome Shell, but will soonish :) sebsebseb: you should! aday: indeed! <-- nate (~nate@96.26.10.166) has left #gnome dj11: there'll be some options for customisation, and the extensions stuff will be pretty powerful when it comes online <-- zelvosaur has quit (Leaving.) --> orospakr (~orospakr@mahoromatic.orospakr.ca) has joined #gnome cool, extensions :) i didn't know about this it's a secret :D it won't properly happen until after 3.0. but it will happen dj11: also there are ways to theme Gnome Shell, some themes already out there, that should work with later ones sebsebseb: yeah, the gnome 3 deviant art group is awesome aday: yep that's the one I meant :) dj11: you should check it out <-- king313 has quit (.) in the repository? howdy sorry, was a little late. dj11: http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/ dj11: tron! http://half-left.deviantart.com/art/GS-Tron-Legacy-Git-192557812 and the awn compatibility will be the same? dj11: i haven't tried that, myself... oh ok dj11: have a go. you might not need awn with it okay, i'm calling it a night. good chatting with you all ok thx for all the information night aday: Ok good night cheers aday and thanks again for doing Gnome 3 User Day :) <-- aliva has quit (Connection timed out) Users Day