IRC Log for Mar 14 2010 Snowy Planning Meeting

   1 09:03 <@sandy> okay, who is here for the meeting?
   2 09:03 <@sandy> I know we've got raywang, leonh, and brad
   3 09:03 <@sandy> pcutler is unfortunately sick today
   4 09:04 <@sandy> dj_kstra: if you're around, you're welcome to participate, too :-)
   5 09:04 < dj_kstra> yep I am here :)
   6 09:04 <@sandy> it's about 5 after, so I think we'll just go ahead and start
   7 09:05 <@brad> sounds good
   8 09:05 <@sandy> Thanks for coming, folks
   9 09:05 <@sandy> we don't have an agenda for this meeting
  10 09:05 <@sandy> we're just trying to arrange regular times to get together and chat about snowy and Tomboy Online
  11 09:05 <@sandy> let me give a brief update on where we are
  12 09:05 <@sandy> leonh and sanderd have been helping out a lot lately with patches
  13 09:05 <@sandy> leonh got the unit tests all passing and fix a bunch of related bugs
  14 09:06 <@sandy> last week I sent an email to gnome-infrastructure list (the gnome sysadmin team) to start a conversation about deploying Snowy on GNOME servers
  15 09:06 <@sandy> from what I understand, raywang will be working on that on the GNOME side
  16 09:07 <@sandy> now that he is an official member of the sysadmin team
  17 09:07  * brad high-fives raywang 
  18 09:07 < raywang> thanks dudes :)
  19 09:07 <@sandy> raywang and SEJeff are, I think, waiting on us at this time
  20 09:07 <@sandy> so we can chat with raywang about what he needs
  21 09:07 <@sandy> the only other thing going on
  22 09:07 <@sandy> is that I emailed the marketing-list about the name and domain
  23 09:08 <@sandy> they have all sorts of neat ideas about the future of GNOME web services
  24 09:08 <@sandy> but on the whole, they agree that we should just start with calling it "Tomboy Online"
  25 09:08 <@sandy> and that using tomboy-online.org is fine from their point of view (it's a domain I already own)
  26 09:08 <@brad> cool
  27 09:08 <@sandy> in the future we may move to something like online.gnome.org/notes, or something else
  28 09:08 <@sandy> one other thing that came out of talking to the marketing guys is that we should probably use OpenID for authentication
  29 09:09 <@sandy> it will allow us to be more flexible in the future, with regard to user accounts and GNOME web services
  30 09:09 <@sandy> so that's all I have to say, to catch everyone up
  31 09:09 <@sandy> before we get started just chatting
  32 09:09 <@sandy> did anyone have any issues they wanted to make sure we discuss today?
  33 09:10 <@sandy> okay, feel free to speak up if you have anything you feel we need to cover
  34 09:10 <@sandy> and I'd like to remind folks that unfortunately I need to leave in 21 minutes
  35 09:10 <@sandy> okay, well, raywang, since you're here...
  36 09:10 <@brad> leonh: do you have any patches you'd like me to review?
  37 09:11  * sandy waits for brad/leonh
  38 09:11 < leonh> I would appreciate if we get a more straight-forward TODO list. I personally feel a lot more comfortable to do a few smaller tasks rather than one huge  "This feature would be nice"
  39 09:11 <@brad> leonh: yeah, that's understandable
  40 09:11 <@sandy> leonh: do you think it makes sense to expand http://live.gnome.org/Snowy/TomboyOnlineRoadmap ?
  41 09:11 <@sandy> or to just file more bugs?
  42 09:11 <@sandy> I don't like having three different places for TODO items right now...
  43 09:12 < dj_kstra> I may have a little suggestion based on snowy getting on the gnome infrastructure
  44 09:12 < dj_kstra> I guess that encryption (client side) is kinda mandatory if you want users to feel comfortable with it
  45 09:12 <@sandy> dj_kstra: yes, we need to use HTTPS
  46 09:12 < dj_kstra> just my two cents, it was something I was thinking about
  47 09:12 < dj_kstra> nope
  48 09:13 < dj_kstra> more than that
  49 09:13 <@sandy> oh?
  50 09:13 < leonh> brad: The sidebar search patch is still in bugzilla, sanderd took a look at it and made some suggestions as well, it would be great if you could comment on them because at the moment I am not sure how the patch should look like
  51 09:13 < dj_kstra> I emant notes stored encrypted and decrypted on the client by means of javascript
  52 09:13 <@brad> leonh: do you have a link to the bug you're talking about?
  53 09:13 <@brad> dj_kstra: hmm, I don't know if that's easily accomplishable
  54 09:13 <@sandy> dj_kstra: what do you mean by "client" right now?
  55 09:13 < leonh> brad: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603615
  56 09:14 <@brad> leonh: thanks
  57 09:14 < dj_kstra> brad: it doesnt look impossibl,e especially because it may be enforced on tomboy itself, storing notes encrypted and decrypted on the fly
  58 09:14 < dj_kstra> client is the browser or tomboyonline plugin
  59 09:14 <@sandy> dj_kstra: I'm not sure I understand why HTTPS is not enough
  60 09:15 < dj_kstra> assume the notes are stored in two places (snowy or hard drive)
  61 09:15 <@sandy> we make a request, it goes over HTTPS, it's all encrypted, right?
  62 09:15 < dj_kstra> because the server has the ability to inspect the notes content
  63 09:15 <@sandy> oh, so you mean server-side encryption
  64 09:15 < dj_kstra> and if the server is administered by a third party
  65 09:15 <@sandy> dj_kstra: so, we have already decided that we are not making that a priority at this time
  66 09:15 < dj_kstra> well, I may have notes about sensitive things
  67 09:15 <@sandy> dj_kstra: I know a lot of people are going to care, and it is going to keep them from using Tomboy Online
  68 09:16 <@sandy> but I think right now we have too many other things to worry about
  69 09:16 < dj_kstra> ok
  70 09:16 < dj_kstra> just a suggestion if snowy was going to be deployed aas part of gnome web services :)
  71 09:16 <@sandy> dj_kstra: if you wanted to work on it, that is cool
  72 09:16 <@brad>  dj_kstra: I think it would be useful if someone, possibly yourself, could investigate the best way to do it
  73 09:17 <@sandy> dj_kstra: I agree with you that it is a feature we will need in the future
  74 09:17 < dj_kstra> I am going to look for it, I am not really python savvy, but I can try to see the best way to implement it
  75 09:17 < raywang> or maybe user could be able to select what notes sync and what not?
  76 09:17 <@sandy> raywang: yes, that is another thing we need to do
  77 09:17 < leonh> sandy: Maybe the Roadmap would be a good thing to expand. E.g. there is a task "Create a NoteManager to handle permissions in one place and unit test". I don't really know where to start there. Maybe detailing what has to be done (permission model per not, what does it look like, maybe even a framework file for the NoteManager to work on, etc...) would be great
  78 09:17 <@sandy> leonh: I have no idea what that note means, either...it is copied from TODO
  79 09:18 <@brad> leonh: I'm pretty sure I did that actually
  80 09:18  * brad looks at snowy source
  81 09:18 <@sandy> raywang: next cycle in Tomboy, I want to work on more fine grained sync preferences
  82 09:18 < raywang> nice
  83 09:18 <@brad> leonh: http://git.gnome.org/browse/snowy/tree/notes/managers.py
  84 09:18 <@brad> leonh: so that can be removed from the TODO
  85 09:18 <@sandy> brad: should we delete TODO and just use the wiki page (or another wiki page, or bugzilla)?
  86 09:19 <@brad> sandy: let's blank out TODO but put a link to the wiki
  87 09:19 <@sandy> brad: great idea
  88 09:19 <@sandy> ACTION ITEM!
  89 09:20 < leonh> Another thing on the Roadmap: Revert to old notes. I really don't know where to start, how to do the UI, etc...
  90 09:21 < leonh> In other words, just give me something specific to do and I'll do it  :)
  91 09:21 <@brad> leonh: we need a UI to expose the versions stored by django-reversion
  92 09:21 <@brad> and allow you to revert
  93 09:23 <@sandy> raywang: before I go, I want to chat with you a bit
  94 09:23 < raywang> sandy, sure
  95 09:23 <@sandy> have you started at all on getting snowy on GNOME servers?
  96 09:23 <@sandy> if not, what do you need from us to get started?
  97 09:23 < dj_kstra> I know it is a meeting and not a bug solving day :) So, after the meeting, if someone syncronization-savvy is available for 5 minuts that would be great :)
  98 09:24 <@sandy> dj_kstra: I will be available tomorrow, but in a few minutes I'll be out for the day, sorry :-)
  99 09:24 <@sandy> but I did see your bug
 100 09:24 < dj_kstra> sandy: ok :)
 101 09:24 < raywang> sandy, yeah I‘ve tried. I started to deploy it on my computer step by step from INSTALL
 102 09:25 < raywang> sandy, and the dependencies there is based on RH/Fedora, I'm just building pytz on OBS, and give it a try very soon. 
 103 09:25 <@sandy> raywang: here is what we currently think is the best way to do it: http://live.gnome.org/Snowy/WSGI
 104 09:25 <@sandy> (it depends on reading INSTALL, too)
 105 09:25 <@sandy> raywang: I think the deps are all available in devel:langs:python
 106 09:26 <@sandy> I have them all from package
 107 09:26 <@sandy> let me search
 108 09:26 < leonh> brad: OK, so something like a "History" button next to the note where you can select an older revision and revert to it?
 109 09:26 <@brad> leonh: yeah, basically
 110 09:26 <@brad> leonh: there should be a revision for every time tomboy has synced to snowy
 111 09:26 <@sandy> raywang: I have python-pytz from home:pablomarti
 112 09:26 <@brad> we may need to do things like make sure that we don't have duplicate revisions in there, etc, but it should mostly work
 113 09:27 < raywang> sandy, great! actually, I've learned you and other guys talked about WSGI, next step, I'm going to have a try
 114 09:27 <@sandy> raywang: okay, great
 115 09:27 <@sandy> well, please bug us on snowy-list, or here in #snowy if you need anything :-)
 116 09:27 < raywang> that's for sure. 
 117 09:28 <@sandy> leonh: dj_kstra: brad: (and sanderd): if anyone is interested in working on switching us to OpenID, I think that is pretty high priority right now
 118 09:28 <@sandy> I may work on it next weekend if nobody else is interestd
 119 09:28 < leonh> I can do that
 120 09:28 <@sandy> leonh: cool
 121 09:28 <@sandy> there are a ton of different django libs for it
 122 09:28 < leonh> As I said, give me something to do and I'll do it :)
 123 09:28 <@sandy> http://github.com/uswaretech/Django-Socialauth
 124 09:28 < raywang> sandy, btw, the package that pablomarti packed is pretty old, i'm not sure it's okay or not, I'm packaging the latest, 2010e. 
 125 09:29 < dj_kstra> I have no enough exp with code to start doing it with a deadline... I ll have a look for sure anyway
 126 09:29 <@sandy> leonh: umm, I thought I had more tabs open but I guess I closed them...anyway you'll see if you google that there are a lot, and some are abandoned, etc etc
 127 09:29 <@sandy> raywang: good point
 128 09:29 <@sandy> dj_kstra: we have no real deadlines
 129 09:29 <@sandy> OH
 130 09:29 <@sandy> ONE MORE THING
 131 09:30 <@sandy> Guys, I'd like us to switch to the GNOME release cycle along with the 2.31.x cycle
 132 09:30 <@sandy> we'll need to figure out what it means for us to have a "release"
 133 09:30 <@sandy> see http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointThirtyone for the schedule
 134 09:30 <@sandy> first tarball date is May 3rd
 135 09:30 <@brad> sandy: ok, sounds good
 136 09:30 <@sandy> these don't need to be stable releases
 137 09:31 <@sandy> but it's good to get us on the same cycle as the rest of GNOME
 138 09:31 <@sandy> and I think we can start putting together goals for certain releases, and it will help us
 139 09:31 <@sandy> anyway, sorry for having to run so early
 140 09:31 <@sandy> and thanks everybody for coming
 141 09:31 <@brad> thanks sandy!
 142 09:31 <@sandy> brad: I leave things in your hands if folks want to hang out a bit longer ;-)
 143 09:32 < leonh> sandy: Thank's for moderating :)
 144 09:32 < leonh> Actually I have to leave ASAP as well...
 145 09:32 < raywang> thanks sandy, see you 
 146 09:32 < leonh> meeting at 18:00 that takes about 1h to get to from here
 147 09:32 < leonh> 18:00 being in 30min...
 148 09:33 < raywang> brad, I may be not that familiar with snowy like you guys, so I might bother you from time to time on deployment, configurations etc. :)
 149 09:34 < raywang> thanks in advance! 
 150 09:34 <@brad> raywang: not a problem.  happy to help
 151 09:36 < raywang> sorry, time to sleep, catch you guys later.
 152 09:36 <@brad> good night!
 153 09:36 < dj_kstra> 'night
 154 09:36 < raywang> thanks
 155 09:36 < leonh> raywang: I tried the guide on the wiki, it's very straightforward. I have no idea about apache configuration, I just did what the tutorial said, so I don't know about the security of this method...
 156 09:36 < leonh> good night!
 157 09:36 < dj_kstra> if you need some help w.r.t apache I am kinda into it
 158 09:36 < raywang> leonh, alright, i got it
 159 09:37 < raywang> dj_kstra, super, thanks a lot :)
 160 09:37 < raywang> bye

Projects/Snowy/Meetings/14Mar2010/Log (last edited 2013-11-22 20:53:50 by WilliamJonMcCann)