19:02:37 <heidi> #startmeeting
19:02:37 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Feb 13 19:02:37 2014 CET.  The chair is heidi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:37 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:48 <heidi> And let's do updates
19:02:53 <heidi> #topic Updates
19:03:11 <heidi> Stoney, want to fill folks in on what we've been doing (Monday)?
19:03:16 <stoney> sure
19:03:36 <stoney> #info Heidi and I are reviewing/committing patches on Mondays
19:03:48 <stoney> so hopefully that will help move things along
19:04:01 <stoney> did we do something else Monday?
19:04:54 <heidi> #info We reviewed Kevin-brown's patch for GNOME 3 bug
19:05:08 <stoney> right... sorry... more specific
19:05:08 <stoney> :)
19:05:14 <heidi> Turns out that the actual review didn't get committed on Monday so I just did so today.
19:05:29 <heidi> kevin-brown and I discovered this yesterday so I fixed today.
19:05:44 <stoney> oh... ick, that's strange
19:05:55 <heidi> What?
19:06:05 <stoney> that the review didn't get posted
19:06:16 <heidi> Yes, I'm wondering if I wasn't logged in when I did it?
19:06:18 <heidi> Anyways, it is fixed.
19:06:42 <heidi> The #a11y channel just had the notice: Announcement from my owner (sysadmin): The GNOME Network will be experiencing a few minutes of downtime for finish performing the network switches we started yesterday evening, thanks for your patience
19:06:48 <stoney> we'll do a double check next time
19:07:11 <stoney> good to know
19:07:18 <heidi> Yes.
19:07:29 <stoney> where's roland?
19:07:29 <heidi> paxnovem? What are you up to?
19:07:40 <heidi> Oh, forgot to ping him. I'll do so
19:07:49 <stoney> ok, thanks
19:08:29 <heidi> done
19:08:37 <stoney> excellent :)
19:09:04 <paxnovem> I have gotten fedora 20 installed on my computer but haven't gotten around to installing mousetrap yet
19:09:13 <heidi> Ah, OK.
19:09:24 <heidi> And what is the status of the USB drives?
19:09:35 <paxnovem> I will probably do that today with the extra time that has suddenly appeared
19:10:22 <heidi> paxnovem: could you please summarize using the #info tag so it gets into the notes?
19:10:24 <paxnovem> I will do a final check but I haven't had any problems on my laptop or my roomates
19:10:44 <stoney> (research shows that productivity increases when there are winter storms... it's probably because all the programmers are stuck behind their computers :) )
19:10:45 <paxnovem> Yea sorry, I am on my phone
19:10:51 <heidi> Oh, OK. I'll summarixe
19:11:16 <heidi> #info paxnovem is doing a final check on USB drives
19:11:55 <heidi> paxnovem: Are you at the point where you're ready to try on different system?
19:13:50 <paxnovem> I think so, I am going to try on a few machines in my dorm today and see how that goes
19:14:38 <heidi> #info Check with Heidi to get some USBs that you can distribute for testing.
19:14:56 <heidi> If you can create three or four USBs, we'll each take one and try in various systems.
19:16:13 <stoney> good idea
19:16:17 <heidi> :-)
19:16:30 <heidi> paxnovem: do you need anything further from us?
19:18:01 <paxnovem> Other than more USB drives, I am good
19:18:23 <heidi> OK.
19:18:41 <heidi> kevin-brown: What have you been up to? And shall we walk through your list/
19:18:42 <heidi> ?
19:19:16 <kevin-brown> I haven't made much progress over the past week, though I plan on reviewing the patch comments
19:19:55 <heidi> OK.
19:20:11 <kevin-brown> And yeah, the list: https://gist.github.com/kevin-brown/395c9c5da3af5d8df3a0
19:20:16 * heidi looks
19:20:21 * stoney looks
19:21:41 <heidi> So the answer to should all commits be squashed before a patch is yes.
19:21:44 <heidi> In general.
19:22:36 <stoney> I wrote a longer answer to that question... at the bottom of that page
19:23:39 <heidi> Stoney, thoughts on coding style?
19:24:14 <stoney> are we on the PEP8 stuff?
19:24:27 <stoney> or the patch body question?
19:25:11 <stoney> on the PEP8... yes we should follow it
19:25:38 <stoney> and yes it would be good to have hooks for it that will check it when one tries to commit changes locally
19:25:45 <stoney> kevin-brown: is this possible?
19:25:57 <kevin-brown> stoney: Yes, I have a few that I use on other projects
19:26:02 <stoney> cool
19:26:40 <stoney> now PyLint... again yes... there seams to be some code to run pylint through autotools
19:26:47 <stoney> I'm not sure if this is working
19:27:27 <stoney> I just tried pylint on my machine (OSX not the Fed 18), and I get some errors... not sure if that has anything to do with the project or not
19:27:55 <stoney> but it would be nice if that were working too... HOWEVER...
19:28:08 <stoney> would it be better to have a git hook that runs it?
19:28:17 <heidi> Ah, good idea!
19:28:34 <stoney> (that was kevin-brown's idea)
19:28:43 <kevin-brown> git hooks can get a bit... annoying, but autotools would make it easier to work around
19:28:59 <stoney> oh really...?!
19:29:15 <stoney> so you recommend auto tool solution over git hooks?!
19:29:26 <kevin-brown> at the beginning at least
19:29:36 <stoney> ok... what about PEP8?
19:29:45 <kevin-brown> For both
19:29:50 <stoney> can/should that be done through auto tools too?
19:29:51 <stoney> ok
19:29:54 <kevin-brown> At least that way developers can be notified as they go
19:30:01 <kevin-brown> Instead of right before they are going to check in code
19:30:04 <stoney> right
19:30:11 <stoney> that makes good sense
19:30:15 <stoney> I like
19:30:18 <kevin-brown> I can look into autotools to see how it could be integrated
19:30:40 <stoney> sounds good to me... heidi?
19:31:03 <heidi> I like the idea of the added rigor. I'm not familiar with the tools.
19:31:17 <heidi> Are the autotools applied before the patch is created?
19:31:18 <stoney> auto tool is that autogen.sh thinging
19:31:28 <stoney> right... its the builder
19:31:55 <stoney> so during development, every time you rebuild to test, you'll run this thing
19:32:05 <stoney> it will be built in
19:32:14 <stoney> you run ./autogen.sh and BAM
19:32:31 <heidi> Ah, got it.
19:32:32 <stoney> so this is before anyone commits a change or generates a patch
19:32:40 <heidi> I like this idea.
19:32:49 <heidi> And we should document somewhere for newbies.
19:32:59 <stoney> kevin-brown: how familiar are you with auto tools?
19:33:01 <patti> yes :-)
19:33:06 <stoney> good point :)
19:33:19 <stoney> patti: ! I didn't notice you here! hi!
19:33:35 <patti> good... I dropped in a little late
19:33:38 <kevin-brown> stoney: not very, but I don't think it will take much to figure out how they work
19:33:55 <heidi> Hi Patti! We're talking about  https://gist.github.com/kevin-brown/395c9c5da3af5d8df3a0
19:34:13 <stoney> kevin-brown: if you get stuck... stop by... I'm not expert, but I looked around a bit
19:34:14 <heidi> This is a list of things that kevin-brown has identified that need to be worked on in MouseTrap
19:34:33 <heidi> kevin-brown: do you want to take that on as a task?
19:34:46 <kevin-brown> heidi: sure
19:34:48 <heidi> Stoney, what is Roland doing?
19:35:05 <stoney> also kevin-brown: here is a walkthrough I did of mousetraps autoconfig stuff: http://stoney-jackson.blogspot.com/2013/10/mousetraps-top-level-makefileam.html
19:35:27 <stoney> heidi: he's supposed to be working on the opencv python3 thing
19:35:44 <kevin-brown> Ah yes, I need to get in contact with Roland about that
19:35:59 <heidi> Ah, right.
19:36:52 <stoney> now looking at my blog post...
19:37:01 <stoney> that should probably go into the code base :)
19:37:23 <stoney> basically I commented a bunch of stuff and then put it in a blog :)
19:37:28 <stoney> what a fool
19:38:09 <stoney> so where were we?
19:38:20 <heidi> Well, having it in both places is helpful.
19:38:52 <heidi> Are we done with coding convention and tools?
19:39:03 <stoney> I'm good
19:39:09 <heidi> btw, thank you kevin-brown for adding software engineering rigor to the project.
19:39:13 <heidi> We appreciate it!
19:39:28 <stoney> definitely
19:39:32 <heidi> List of dependencies in requirements.txt
19:39:53 <heidi> kevin-brown: are the dependencies things like libraries? Is this what you mean?
19:40:21 <kevin-brown> heidi: Anything that needs to be pip installed (or pulled in as a python dependency)
19:40:31 <heidi> Ah, OK.
19:40:39 <heidi> I have no objections. And add to the code base. Stoney?
19:40:55 <stoney> thinking
19:41:21 <kevin-brown> I'm not sure if right now there are any pip-based requirements
19:41:39 <stoney> I'm thinking that these would be part of auto tools too, no?
19:41:53 <stoney> or is this just documentation?
19:42:48 * stoney checking gnome maintainers corner
19:42:48 <kevin-brown> It's common for python projects to have `requirements.txt` files that hold a list of pip dependencies, as pip makes it relatively simple to install from them
19:43:02 <stoney> oops ... can't get to it
19:43:23 * stoney using google's cached version
19:43:39 <heidi> ah, so a python convention.
19:44:00 <kevin-brown> yes, it makes it easier for people to get set up with a project
19:44:06 <stoney> I don't mind that... but I'm wondering if there is a GNOME project requirement
19:44:28 <stoney> if so, one should be generated from the other so we don't have the same thing in two places... more to maintain
19:44:35 <kevin-brown> Yes, I agree
19:45:05 <stoney> I can't easily browse GNOME's site right now
19:45:10 <stoney> so I  can't get an answer
19:45:20 <heidi> Right.
19:45:24 <stoney> shall we bug j o a n i.e ?
19:45:33 <heidi> Sure!
19:45:46 * stoney forming question
19:46:08 <stoney> joanie: is there a standard place to list dependencies in a GNOME project?
19:46:08 <LoganH> Hey.. Sorry I'm late. Lost track of time shoveling
19:46:13 <heidi> :-)
19:46:17 <stoney> joanie: BTW hi again :)
19:46:21 <joanie> hey
19:46:28 * joanie mentally shifts gears
19:46:32 <stoney> sorry
19:46:38 <joanie> i need more context
19:46:50 <stoney> we are thinking of adding a requirements.txt
19:46:55 <joanie> readme
19:46:57 * joanie looks
19:46:59 <stoney> that will list python dependencies
19:47:19 <joanie> https://git.gnome.org/browse/orca/tree/README#n26
19:47:24 <joanie> is what I did
19:47:35 <stoney> cool... kevin-brown ?
19:47:51 <stoney> is that what you wanted?
19:47:59 <kevin-brown> Yeah, that works as well
19:48:03 <joanie> and I see I need to denit my text
19:48:10 <joanie> e.g. "following error" with no error
19:48:12 <joanie> mefail
19:48:14 <stoney> lol
19:48:16 <joanie> anyhoo, use the idea
19:48:21 <joanie> not the exact text
19:48:22 <joanie> ;)
19:48:24 <stoney> glad we could help you review your text :)
19:48:25 * joanie is human
19:48:28 <joanie> ha!
19:48:33 <stoney> thanks
19:49:00 <stoney> so are we good there?
19:49:10 * joanie wanders off ping me by name if you re-need me
19:49:17 <stoney> thanks joanie ! :)
19:49:19 <kevin-brown> I believe so
19:49:28 <stoney> ok next item?
19:49:51 <kevin-brown> Fedora 20 has been covered, so I believe the next item is triaging of bugs
19:50:05 <stoney> ok
19:50:31 <stoney> heidi: i think this is an "us" issue
19:50:45 <heidi> :-)The bugs?
19:50:48 <stoney> we haven't been able to hand out authority for the issue tracker
19:51:05 <stoney> can you/we get that authority?
19:51:08 <heidi> Yes, I can assign bugs to people.
19:51:19 <heidi> But I can't give those people the ability to edit a bug.
19:51:42 <stoney> I was thinking we should get ourselves out of the loop...
19:51:52 <stoney> can we set it up so they can assign themselves?
19:51:56 <heidi> Yes, right.
19:52:02 <stoney> then if they want to work on a bug...
19:52:03 <heidi> I think I need a permission.
19:52:06 <stoney> they claim it and go
19:52:16 <stoney> is that what you wanted kevin-brown ?
19:52:33 <heidi> Yes, am I correct in assuming that folks can't now "claim" a bug? that I have to assign them?
19:52:43 <kevin-brown> That would work (it's what I'm used to)
19:53:09 <stoney> and to heidi's question? you're not able to assign yourself now?
19:53:16 <kevin-brown> Right now people can't assign themselves to bugs without the correct permission (I'm pretty sure that's the case?)
19:53:46 * stoney trying
19:54:36 <kevin-brown> I'm honestly more used to open Trac instances, so Bugzilla is uncharted territory for me
19:54:49 <heidi> And I can't Right.
19:54:51 <stoney> I don't think I can
19:56:01 <stoney> is this another quick question for j o a n i e?
19:56:05 <heidi> So what specifically do we need?
19:56:17 <heidi> Yes, I think so. Just want to make it clear exactly what we need.
19:56:25 <heidi> So we need permission for folks to assign themselves bugs.
19:56:28 <stoney> we would like to be able to give developers the authority to assign themselves to a bug
19:56:39 <stoney> right
19:56:56 <heidi> Are there different edit permissions? I don't know.
19:57:22 <paxnovem> That link that I sent awhile ago addressed this.
19:57:30 <stoney> I don't fully understand the bugzlila terminology  either
19:57:33 <paxnovem> Let me get that link....
19:58:03 <stoney> ah yes... that was another authority question (the link paxnovem is getting)
19:58:07 <stoney> we should as for that too
19:58:18 <stoney> (at least for you Heidi :) )
19:58:22 <heidi> It looks like bugzilla can be customized to support different permissions. Now to see what gnome does.
19:58:31 <heidi> This is going to take a bit of time.
19:58:39 <heidi> Let me do this offline and report on the list.
19:58:43 <stoney> ok
19:58:53 <stoney> next item?
19:58:57 <heidi> Since it is close to 2:00.
19:59:35 <heidi> Before we go on, patti, what can we do for you?
20:01:00 <heidi> OK, let's go on.
20:01:05 <heidi> Fedora 20 update is next.
20:01:26 <heidi> Mostly we haven't done this because we stabilized on Fedora 18. I believe that paxnovem was going to try the upgrade.
20:01:34 <heidi> kevin-brown: Have you tried it?
20:02:02 <kevin-brown> heidi: Not yet, that was mostly a general set of questions aimed at anyone who could answer them
20:03:33 <heidi> Ah, OK. So paxnovem is trying it.
20:03:48 <heidi> loganh can we try this on one of the machines in the lab?
20:03:54 <heidi> And do we have cameras in yet?
20:04:02 <LoganH> heidi, Yes and yes
20:04:22 <stoney> sweet!
20:04:22 <LoganH> I will have someone get Fedora 20 installed this coming up week, and I'll do the install
20:04:31 <LoganH> of mousetrap
20:05:17 <heidi> OK, thanks. Feel free to have lab folks help with that as well.
20:05:18 <paxnovem> I will try fedora 20 today
20:05:29 <heidi> #action Heidi will check on bugzilla permissions
20:05:40 <heidi> #action loganh will install fedora 20 and mousetrap in the lb
20:06:19 <stoney> #action roland will continue to investigate opencv+python3
20:06:35 <heidi> kevin-brown: do you want to say anything specific about the list of bugs you've got listed on git-hub?
20:06:41 <stoney> #action paxnovem will continue working on USB
20:07:18 <kevin-brown> heidi: Most of the outdated ones can probably be dropped
20:07:28 <kevin-brown> Er, closed
20:07:33 <heidi> :-)
20:08:18 <heidi> Closed on bugzilla?
20:09:02 <kevin-brown> Yes, most of them are more than a year old
20:09:05 <kevin-brown> And do not apply any more
20:09:25 <heidi> Right.  OK. So we should add bug triaging to the list of things to do.
20:09:38 <stoney> for monday?
20:09:40 <heidi> We're already almost 10 minutes over. Do folks have time to talk testing?
20:09:45 <heidi> Ah, good idea!
20:09:59 <stoney> #action heidi and stoney will work on bug triaging
20:10:28 <kevin-brown> We can easily come back to the list, I have plans on updating it as we go along anyway
20:10:32 <heidi> Right.
20:11:00 <heidi> So we have no concrete plans for testing. And I haven't seen any test cases or infrastructure for mousetrap.
20:11:23 <stoney> kevin-brown: love the list
20:11:37 <heidi> Yes, good list!
20:11:42 <stoney> on testing...
20:11:54 <stoney> nikki tried to get this going a bit
20:12:08 <stoney> she was trying to introduce some unit testing
20:12:24 <stoney> but since she was working mostly on GUI stuff at the time...
20:12:27 <stoney> that was difficult
20:12:37 <stoney> we might have better luck...
20:12:51 <stoney> establishing a unit testing policy....
20:12:54 <stoney> and grow into it...
20:13:01 <stoney> rather than trying to do it all at once
20:13:46 <heidi> Yes, good idea.
20:13:47 <stoney> thoughts?
20:13:53 <kevin-brown> With the size of the project, I'd have to agree that doing it over time would work best
20:14:06 <heidi> I like it! Sounds like we need a policy on this as well.
20:14:35 <stoney> well...
20:14:40 <stoney> someone once said...
20:14:53 <stoney> a few bad tests are better than no tests
20:15:06 <stoney> (not sure if that is exact or who said it)
20:15:10 <stoney> but there you go :)
20:15:21 <stoney> but yes... something easy to follow
20:15:38 <stoney> it should help with debugging too... so I think it would be great
20:15:51 <stoney> whose going to work on it? :)
20:16:27 <heidi> Stoney, let's you and I talk on Monday about how to organize this.
20:16:32 <stoney> ok
20:16:50 <heidi> We're about 15 minutes over. Does anyone have anything else?
20:16:56 <stoney> i'm good
20:17:10 <heidi> OK, let's end the formal meeting.
20:17:20 <heidi> #endmeeting