1 17:09:01 <heidi> #startmeeting
   2 17:09:02 <tota11y> Meeting started Fri Mar 29 17:09:01 2013 CET.  The chair is heidi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 17:09:02 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 17:09:19 <heidi> #topic Updates
   5 17:09:23 <heidi> So Dark_Rose, I'm not sure what you meant by you're going through slides?
   6 17:09:56 <Dark_Rose> I found slides with Stoney that discuss GNU autotools. I am reading though them to get a better understanding of the makefiles.
   7 17:10:05 <heidi> Ah, got it.
   8 17:10:14 <Stoney> We got through about 1/3 of them yesterday
   9 17:10:23 <heidi> #info Nikki is getting up to speed on GNU autotools
  10 17:10:30 <Dark_Rose> They can be found by downloading the pdf from http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~adl/autotools.html
  11 17:10:33 <Dark_Rose> #link http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~adl/autotools.html
  12 17:10:37 <heidi> :-) Super
  13 17:10:39 <heidi> Thanks.
  14 17:10:42 <Stoney> heidi have you used them before?
  15 17:10:45 <Dark_Rose> no problem :)
  16 17:10:55 <heidi> Nope. Or I should say, "not that I know of".
  17 17:10:57 <heidi> What are they?
  18 17:11:13 <Stoney> they generate config files and makefiles
  19 17:11:33 <heidi> Ah, got it.
  20 17:11:37 <Stoney> so all the .in files are generated from .am or .ac files
  21 17:11:53 <heidi> I knew that one fact, but didn't know that autotools did it.
  22 17:12:22 <Stoney> apparently there are a whole bunch of tools in the autotools set... autoconf, automake, etc
  23 17:12:29 <heidi> Ah, got it.
  24 17:12:32 <Dark_Rose> I am pretty sure that a lot of files, especially in the highest level, come from the autotools are not mousetrap specific
  25 17:13:04 <Dark_Rose> Stoney and I think that they are GNU/Gnome standards imposed on the projects for a blanket way of programing
  26 17:13:08 <heidi> Ah, good. And that would be helpful to know.
  27 17:13:26 <Stoney> but we aren't sure yet if that is true
  28 17:13:32 <heidi> That makes sense. For consistency across projects.
  29 17:14:05 <Dark_Rose> I am going to go through the slides, but then I am going to reach to Gnome information to see what they are saying and if they point us to the same information we are on a good track.
  30 17:14:43 <heidi> You're going to reach to "Gnome information"? I'm not sure I understand that.
  31 17:14:58 <Stoney> what I find strange is that there isn't a config.ac file in mousetrap... there is a config.in though... but I thought it was supposed to be generated from the .ac
  32 17:15:27 <Stoney> reach = search ?
  33 17:15:34 <Stoney> or research?
  34 17:15:39 <heidi> Ah, got it.
  35 17:15:55 <Dark_Rose> I am going to go to their site and see if I can find out if autotools is something they have information on and what they are saying about it. If nothing comes up, then autotools is probably only used by the mousetrap team and not Gnome. and yes search/research
  36 17:16:46 <heidi> OK, sure.
  37 17:16:55 <heidi> And you might also take a peek at a few other projects.
  38 17:17:02 <Dark_Rose> I plan on it
  39 17:17:07 <heidi> For instance, I know that Epiphany is installed on some of the machines in the lab.
  40 17:17:17 <Dark_Rose> oh ok
  41 17:17:24 <heidi> Brian Bartholomew or Kyle Robitaille would be able to show you where.
  42 17:17:39 <Dark_Rose> alright
  43 17:17:52 <heidi> So that would give us another data point. We could also download a few other projects, but we might not need to go that far.
  44 17:17:59 <Dark_Rose> alright sounds good
  45 17:18:53 <Stoney> Is this something that Joanie could quickly answer?
  46 17:19:00 <heidi> Stoney, do you have an update? I haven't done anything since Monday.
  47 17:19:03 <heidi> Possibly.
  48 17:19:06 * joanie scrolls back
  49 17:19:24 <Stoney> Joanie, we are wondering if GNOME requires use of autotools
  50 17:19:25 <joanie> (how far back?)
  51 17:19:26 <Stoney> ?
  52 17:19:29 <joanie> yay!
  53 17:19:30 <joanie> yes
  54 17:19:35 <Stoney> thanks!
  55 17:19:37 <Stoney> that was easy
  56 17:19:37 <joanie> you bet
  57 17:19:40 <heidi> :-)
  58 17:19:40 <joanie> thanks for the repeat
  59 17:19:42 <Dark_Rose> awesome :)
  60 17:19:53 <heidi> Joanie, did you get my message about the MouseTrap sprint?
  61 17:20:00 <joanie> I did
  62 17:20:03 <heidi> A week from today the WNE crew is going to hack all day.
  63 17:20:04 <joanie> which campus?
  64 17:20:07 <heidi> WNE
  65 17:20:11 <joanie> cool
  66 17:20:19 <joanie> I *may* be able to come, but I dunno yet
  67 17:20:20 <heidi> I'm hoping that the Drexel and NCC folks will hack virtually as well.
  68 17:20:27 <heidi> :-) YOu are always very welcome!
  69 17:20:29 <heidi> Sure, let us know.
  70 17:20:42 <joanie> being there virtually is almost a guarantee
  71 17:20:46 <heidi> Have you seen our new lab? I don't know if you've been down since we moved to the new building?
  72 17:20:50 <heidi> Great!
  73 17:20:55 <joanie> and if it's during the "week off" I plan to take, I can definitely come
  74 17:21:10 <joanie> I need a week to sleep, vegetate and work on fun stuff
  75 17:21:16 <joanie> and this constitutes fun
  76 17:21:26 <joanie> it's a break for MustDos i need
  77 17:21:28 <heidi> Ah, cool!
  78 17:21:29 <joanie> but I'm rambling
  79 17:21:38 * heidi wonders at hacking on one's week off :-)
  80 17:21:41 <joanie> so I'll let you resume.
  81 17:21:48 <heidi> :-)
  82 17:21:50 <joanie> heidi: at my former job I took vacation to hack
  83 17:21:58 <joanie> not enough hours in the day
  84 17:22:10 <heidi> I get it. :-) But I'm thinking that many non-coding folks wouldn't.
  85 17:22:11 <heidi> Right.
  86 17:22:13 <heidi> :-)
  87 17:22:13 <joanie> anyhoo, /me waves and says "ping me if you need me"
  88 17:22:15 <joanie> :)
  89 17:22:23 <Stoney> #info GNOME projects are required to use autotool
  90 17:22:31 <heidi> Tbye
  91 17:22:35 <heidi> Thanks Stoney
  92 17:22:36 <joanie> Stoney: well....
  93 17:22:37 <Stoney> thanks !
  94 17:22:45 <joanie> Most GNOME projects use autotool
  95 17:22:46 <Stoney> ?
  96 17:22:56 <Stoney> I see... it's a good idea
  97 17:22:58 <joanie> I don't think we have a "requirement" that thou shalt use autotool
  98 17:23:09 <joanie> but folks do, so you probably should too
  99 17:23:21 <Stoney> got it
 100 17:23:23 <Dark_Rose> I love the wording of that joanie, lol
 101 17:23:24 <joanie> k
 102 17:23:30 <heidi> Sounds like a "best practice"
 103 17:23:35 <joanie> Dark_Rose: I'm old and political ;)
 104 17:23:44 <heidi> :-) You're mature and wise!
 105 17:23:45 * joanie waves for realz this time
 106 17:23:48 <heidi> bye
 107 17:23:55 <Dark_Rose> bye!
 108 17:23:57 <Stoney> #info GNOME projects typically use autotool... it's a best practice
 109 17:25:14 <heidi> :-)
 110 17:25:22 <Stoney> Now the fun part will be trying to understand how autotools is being used in mousetrap
 111 17:25:41 <heidi> So my report is that I haven't done anything since we met Monday.
 112 17:25:49 <Stoney> I already found a few @var@ placeholders in some files
 113 17:26:01 <heidi> I haven't had a chance to reverse engineer the design on the ocvfw.
 114 17:26:20 <Dark_Rose> I haven't done much either so no worries lol
 115 17:26:35 <Stoney> actually, you have Dark_Rose
 116 17:26:43 <heidi> Right!
 117 17:26:51 <Stoney> I think you're a long way towards understanding the makefile stuff
 118 17:26:57 <Stoney> it is more than makefiles though
 119 17:27:08 <Dark_Rose> I just meant hours wise lol, I am picking back up on reading stuff today before I go home for the weekend :)
 120 17:27:34 <Stoney> I won't have time to look at it again until next week.
 121 17:27:44 <heidi> OK, I might get to it tomorrow.
 122 17:27:47 <heidi> Need more time!!!
 123 17:27:49 <heidi> :-)
 124 17:28:00 <Stoney> Need to clone myself
 125 17:28:21 <Dark_Rose> lol, I might get a chance this weekend to look a little more, but my essay and two assignments for next week plus family time comes first :)
 126 17:29:18 <Stoney> So next Friday is the sprint... what do we need to do to be ready for it?
 127 17:29:23 <Stoney> can one be ready for a sprint?
 128 17:30:01 <heidi> Umm, we do need to do a bit of prep.
 129 17:30:11 <heidi> Would be good to get the current design outlined by then.
 130 17:30:32 <heidi> One task we could do is review the design at the beginning.
 131 17:30:52 <heidi> We could identify anything that we think needs to be changed.
 132 17:30:53 <heidi> We then need the latest update from Amber.
 133 17:31:00 <Dark_Rose> I can try to get the understanding of makefiles and autotools done by then unless I hit a bump.
 134 17:31:27 <heidi> Ah, that would be good.
 135 17:31:51 <Stoney> so Amber's copy will be our starting point?
 136 17:32:23 <Dark_Rose> I'm guessing yes since a lot will already be fixed?
 137 17:32:47 <heidi> As long as it is consistent with the design and any changes we might decide are needed.
 138 17:33:40 <Stoney> OK, so, pull a design together... and beef up on autotools
 139 17:33:42 <Dark_Rose> We can always look back at the original if we need to.
 140 17:33:52 <Stoney> Get a copy of ambers stuff
 141 17:34:02 <heidi> Yes, right.
 142 17:34:22 <heidi> I've started a page for logistics and plan: http://foss2serve.org/index.php/MouseTrap_Sprint
 143 17:34:39 <heidi> #info Sprint on April 5 at WNE and virtually, 9:00-5:00
 144 17:34:41 <heidi> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/MouseTrap_Sprint
 145 17:35:21 <Dark_Rose> Should I add info their about the autotools as a starting point? and it would be good to have it there for when I am not with you during the sprint.
 146 17:35:47 * heidi is editing...
 147 17:37:40 <heidi> Sure, why don't you add a "Resources" section at the end and add link(s) there.
 148 17:37:43 <heidi> :-)
 149 17:37:54 <Dark_Rose> alright :)
 150 17:37:59 <Stoney> I stuffed it into the preparation
 151 17:38:10 <Stoney> Feel free to move it
 152 17:38:30 <heidi> Sure, :-)
 153 17:38:46 <Stoney> so we have a plan
 154 17:38:54 <Stoney> anything else?
 155 17:38:59 <heidi> Yes. We should probably announce this on the MouseTrap list.
 156 17:39:18 <heidi> We've been too quiet there and we need to be more vocal in case there are others on the list.
 157 17:40:03 <Dark_Rose> good point
 158 17:40:03 <heidi> #action Heidi send introduction and notification of sprint to MouseTrap list
 159 17:40:50 <heidi> OK, I'll do so.
 160 17:41:04 <heidi> #action Heidi post "redesign" enhancement on Bugzilla
 161 17:41:27 * heidi thinks I should stop giving myself more things to do!!!
 162 17:41:57 <Stoney> I would say give me something to do, but I'm behind in so many things at this point that I'm not sure I want to add more
 163 17:43:19 <heidi> RIght, I understand.
 164 17:43:37 <heidi> Anything else?
 165 17:43:47 <Stoney> That's it for me
 166 17:43:48 <heidi> Please feel free to keep adding to the sprint list.
 167 17:43:52 <Stoney> Yup
 168 17:44:03 <heidi> Dark_Rose? Anything else?
 169 17:44:43 <heidi> OK, I'm going to end the meeting.
 170 17:44:45 <heidi> #endmeeting