1 18:01:36 <darci> #startmeeting
   2 18:01:36 <tota11y> Meeting started Fri Feb  1 18:01:36 2013 CET.  The chair is darci. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 18:01:36 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 18:02:03 <darci> I wanted to let everyone know that I have been working to get meeting minutes up
   5 18:02:37 <darci> https://live.gnome.org/MouseTrap/Meetings/
   6 18:03:04 <darci> Please update anything that seems to need it
   7 18:03:30 <darci> I included a brief agenda in the 02-01 link
   8 18:03:36 <darci> Hi Lori
   9 18:03:55 <Lori> Hi
  10 18:04:00 <darci> #topic updates
  11 18:04:25 <darci> Maybe everyone can provide an update?
  12 18:05:04 <amber> still working with opencv, and possibly trying to find someone familiar with the api
  13 18:05:45 <darci> any luck contacting the person whose link you posted last week?
  14 18:05:49 <dark_rose> WNE: I got Fedora 18 successfully onto our computer, But I have been sick most of the week so I haven't got to much else. I'm going to try to grab the files later tonight when I go back into my lab for a bit and see where I get from there.
  15 18:05:55 <amber> not yet
  16 18:06:46 <darci> john?
  17 18:07:06 <john> Got 18 up and running here, too. Attempted to install Mousetrap, but couldn't install the pygtk, python-pyspi and libglib2.0 as they're not in the repos. Just saw Amber's install method and will try it this weekend.
  18 18:07:58 <darci> Great! We're all running Fedora now...that should help.
  19 18:09:49 <darci> Now that everyone is at least a week or two into a new term, is it harder to find time for this project?
  20 18:10:34 <john> Slowly and surely :)
  21 18:10:55 <dark_rose> Yes and no, I don't have an extremely heavy homework load (at least not yet) but I also work in my lab helping maintain it along with other social activities, so it depends week to week on what's going on ^.^
  22 18:11:13 <amber> doesnt seem to be too much of a problem
  23 18:11:50 <darci> I guess I'm wondering if we should meet every week or perhaps every other week...thoughts?
  24 18:12:13 <amber> every week is good
  25 18:12:15 <john> I'm thinking every week. It's just a hour.
  26 18:12:58 <dark_rose> Every week is good..but sometimes it doesn't seem like much happens in a week. On the flip side, once we get further in more is sure to happen, so in the end every week seems the best.
  27 18:13:18 <darci> Ok...sounds good!
  28 18:13:26 <darci> Hi Heidi!
  29 18:13:30 <heidi> Hi Folks!
  30 18:13:35 <heidi> Sorry to be late.
  31 18:14:16 <darci> We were just doing updates...
  32 18:14:19 <heidi> Ah, good!
  33 18:14:47 <heidi> How far did we get?
  34 18:15:16 <darci> Everyone now has Fedora installed!
  35 18:15:34 <heidi> Yeah!
  36 18:16:02 <darci> Are there any other updates?
  37 18:16:53 <darci> I guess we can move on to Next Steps
  38 18:17:03 <darci> #topic Next Steps
  39 18:17:35 <darci> I guess I have one more update.
  40 18:18:21 <darci> The other student from NCC had decided that he doesn't have time to be involved in the project.
  41 18:18:32 <darci> He notified me via email this week.
  42 18:18:47 <heidi> Ah, OK.
  43 18:18:56 <darci> I'm hoping to find someone else next week.
  44 18:18:59 <heidi> dark_rose, what is your next step?
  45 18:19:11 <heidi> Now that we have fedora installed
  46 18:19:54 <john> My next step would be to try Amber's install method (she posted in my status update on the wiki).
  47 18:20:21 <dark_rose> I am going to try to get the files onto the computer later if I can figured it out, lol. I have yet to work with Logan. I'll see how far I can't get on my own until I can get some help, maybe next week from Logan or professor Jackson.
  48 18:20:38 <amber> I'm just going to continue looking at the opencv code and try to find a contact.
  49 18:20:45 <heidi> Righ, you need to go forward without Logan
  50 18:21:28 <heidi> And hang out in this channel. Amber has already downloaded and installed MouseTrap so she might be able to answer questions as well.
  51 18:21:41 <heidi> Also, please document exactly how you downloaded and installed.
  52 18:21:55 <heidi> So that others can follow in your footsteps :-)
  53 18:22:13 <heidi> Amber, try to find a contact who knows something about opencv?
  54 18:22:23 <amber> surely
  55 18:23:36 <darci> Heidi: Any thoughts on making the changes to the project on github vs. using gnome's contribution model?
  56 18:23:58 <heidi> Sorry amber, that was a question. :-) I was asking the "contact" that you referred to was someone who knows opencv.
  57 18:24:08 <amber> yes
  58 18:24:16 <heidi> Ah, got it.
  59 18:24:30 <heidi> We're planning on using gnomes contribution model for the near-term.
  60 18:24:48 * john clueless
  61 18:24:58 <john> Can someone enlighten me on what's the difference?
  62 18:25:03 <heidi> Sure!
  63 18:25:45 <heidi> At one point, we had talked about using a "staging" place such as GitHub to store students code before submitting it to the gnome repository.
  64 18:25:56 <heidi> That is the "github" model.
  65 18:26:30 <heidi> The "gnome" model is to simply use gnome's bugzilla to submit bug reports and use Gnome's git repository to submit code to.
  66 18:26:35 <heidi> Does this make sense?
  67 18:27:43 <heidi> And so if we decide that we get a large enough group of students who are making a lot of changes all at the same time, we may want to use a github account for a local repository.
  68 18:27:49 <heidi> But short term, lets use GNOME.
  69 18:28:01 <john> I think so. :) This might not be a big deal right now since Amber's the only one really coding, but if we're eventually contributing code, shouldn't it be independent from GNOME (both so we don't make fools out of ourselves, and so we can contribute to the code without professors' approval -- the approval would come when the code is contributed to GNOME)
  70 18:28:07 <heidi> One of the things that I have yet to do is to get a Gnome account.
  71 18:28:31 <heidi> Ah, but this is the fun of working in the open source world!
  72 18:28:35 <darci> Heidi: Should students refer to the Gnome Love site?
  73 18:28:50 <heidi> And yes, we can "swap" code back and forth ourselves before we submit to gnome.
  74 18:29:00 <heidi> Darci, yes, please!
  75 18:29:15 <darci> #link https://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove
  76 18:29:19 <heidi> :-)
  77 18:29:24 <amber> so we would store everything locally until we submit it to gnome?
  78 18:29:46 <heidi> Yes, but keep also keeping everyone apprised of your progress.
  79 18:30:05 <heidi> When your code is ready, let us know and we'll pull from your local git repository and test.
  80 18:30:16 <heidi> And give feedback.
  81 18:30:41 <heidi> When we've tested to our satisfaction, we'll submit to gnome.
  82 18:30:44 <amber> ok
  83 18:30:48 <darci> Would it make sense to have everyone working with what amber has now?
  84 18:31:06 <heidi> It would make sense to have everyone working on a working version of what amber has now, yes.
  85 18:31:42 <darci> Should we make this an action item?
  86 18:31:54 <darci> Could it be done by next week?
  87 18:31:55 <lori> I've got to leave, have an appt with my kids.  Sorry...
  88 18:31:58 <heidi> Amber, does your current version compile and run?
  89 18:32:01 <heidi> Bye lori
  90 18:32:06 <darci> Bye!
  91 18:32:08 <amber> kindof?
  92 18:32:09 <amber> bye
  93 18:32:11 <heidi> :-)_
  94 18:32:13 <heidi> :-)
  95 18:32:22 <heidi> OK, so do you have a version that compiles and runs?
  96 18:32:31 <amber> it crashes after a certain point
  97 18:32:36 <heidi> Did you commit such a version to your local repository?
  98 18:32:40 <amber> yes
  99 18:33:00 <heidi> Excellent! Good job!
 100 18:33:03 <heidi> Ah, and does that version have a name/number?
 101 18:33:27 <amber> im not sure what you mean
 102 18:33:55 <john> mousetrap-unstable? ;)
 103 18:34:08 <amber> just mousetrap
 104 18:34:18 <heidi> When you committed that version, did you attach some sort of ID so that if you wanted to you could revert to that version?
 105 18:34:20 <heidi> Ah, OK.
 106 18:34:20 <amber> #link https://github.com/amberheilman/mousetrap
 107 18:34:35 <heidi> Ah, OK, so I think what we need is "main".
 108 18:34:47 <heidi> Got it. Sorry, I'm babbling to myself in IRC :-)
 109 18:36:10 <heidi> So what we need are step-by-step instructions on how to pull from amber's version.
 110 18:36:23 <dark_rose> That would be a fantastic help :)
 111 18:36:29 <john> And how to replace a existing installation
 112 18:36:37 <darci> ;-)) I was just going to ask for that!
 113 18:36:52 <heidi> #action Create step-by-step instructions on how to pull the most recent committed version from Amber's github account.
 114 18:36:58 <heidi> There, I've made it an action.
 115 18:37:05 <darci> Thanks!
 116 18:37:45 <dark_rose> The instructions can probably go right under my instructions for installing fedora on the "getting started" page :)
 117 18:37:46 <heidi> dark_rose, lets see if we (or just you depending on my schedule) can sit down with Stoney and do this on Monday.
 118 18:38:01 <heidi> :-) Sure.
 119 18:38:02 <dark_rose> And if I don't figure it out today, I would love that!
 120 18:38:26 <heidi> OK, great. I'll send Stoney email and ask if he can meet with us in the morning. When are your classes?
 121 18:38:41 <heidi> And john, if you figure this out before we do, please let us know.
 122 18:39:24 <dark_rose> I have a 9am, a 1pm, and a 3:30pm
 123 18:39:39 <john> Pulling from a github account? I've never used git… :/
 124 18:39:46 <heidi> Ah, OK.
 125 18:39:58 <amber> i can help if someone needs some git advice
 126 18:40:11 <heidi> So you're at the point where you have fedora installed. Have you downloaded and installed Mousetrap john?
 127 18:40:20 <heidi> Amber, super!
 128 18:40:42 <heidi> Amber, I'm assuming that you have a local git repository on your machine, yes?
 129 18:40:47 <amber> yes
 130 18:41:28 <john> Not yet heidi -- stuck at not being about to install pygtk, python-pysqi and libglib2.0. Amber posted under my status update with her install method and I'm going to try that.
 131 18:41:44 <dark_rose> Don't worry john, I haven't used it either XD
 132 18:41:46 <heidi> Would you be able to put the instructions or a link to the instructions on the "getting started" page on foss2serve?
 133 18:42:00 <heidi> #link http://www.xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Getting_Started
 134 18:42:31 <darci> I think they are on the status page.
 135 18:42:32 <amber> sure.
 136 18:42:38 <heidi> Dark_rose and John, do feel free to set up a common irc time to work through getting Mousetrap installed.
 137 18:42:50 <john> Should I edit the instructions to add instructions on how to make the USB stick in the first place?
 138 18:42:53 <heidi> Ah, got it.
 139 18:43:08 * heidi looking...
 140 18:43:14 <darci> Yes, that would be great!
 141 18:43:41 <dark_rose> Will do, I'll base it off of my progress tonight. And yes john that would be great. I got the flashdrive from someone else so I don't know how to make it.
 142 18:44:16 <heidi> I didn't see the git installation in structions on the status page.
 143 18:44:33 <heidi> So amber if you could put those on the "Getting Started" page, that would be most helpful.
 144 18:45:03 <darci> Sorry, I thought you were talking about the instructions to install pygtk, python-pysqi, etc.
 145 18:45:04 <amber> on it now
 146 18:45:08 <heidi> Ah, yes.
 147 18:45:14 <heidi> I see that. Yes, helpful.
 148 18:45:32 <heidi> We also need instructions on how to download and install MouseTrap. Unless i'm not seeing them on the status page.
 149 18:45:42 <heidi> Amber, did you have any trouble with the initial download and install?
 150 18:45:44 <darci> #action put instructions on git installation on the "Getting Started" page
 151 18:45:52 <amber> just the install
 152 18:45:57 <amber> and the dependencies
 153 18:46:00 <heidi> Ah, OK.
 154 18:46:52 <heidi> So when we create the download and install instructions, lets include a link to the status page for more installation information.
 155 18:47:11 <heidi> #action include a link in the instructions to the "Status" page for install issues.
 156 18:47:45 <heidi> OK, let me do a learning check.
 157 18:47:50 <heidi> How is everyone feeling?
 158 18:47:57 <heidi> How many are feeling lost?
 159 18:48:25 <amber> just a little
 160 18:48:51 <heidi> I want to encourage you all. I know that this feel like we're making slow progress, but we're making good progress!
 161 18:49:06 <darci> Are you asking just the students or the professors too?
 162 18:49:10 <heidi> This is an entirely new experience and we've all jumped into the deep end on a real project.
 163 18:49:13 <heidi> Oh, profs too!!
 164 18:49:15 <heidi> :-)
 165 18:49:20 <heidi> I'm definitely feeling lost.
 166 18:49:21 <john> If amber is feeling lost, I'm likely doomed. :)
 167 18:49:26 <john> ha
 168 18:49:29 <heidi> :-) Never!
 169 18:49:32 <amber> lol i doubt it
 170 18:49:48 <darci> Ok...then this prof is feeling lost too...although a little less lost each day!
 171 18:49:49 <heidi> What you're feeling is the feeling of just beginning any large project.
 172 18:49:58 <dark_rose> I'm feeling okay, slowly getting there. I think I'll feel more comfortable when everything is on the computer and I see code lol.
 173 18:50:12 <heidi> Any project of real-world size is too big for one person to grasp. A
 174 18:50:22 <heidi> And none of us have had that experience before.
 175 18:50:30 <heidi> So it is natural to be feeling a bit lots.
 176 18:50:34 <heidi> "lost"
 177 18:50:47 <heidi> And I think we're doing a great job of figuring out how to get unlost.
 178 18:51:16 <heidi> And finding our own way is much more difficult than having the instructor or our boss tell us, but it is also what happens in the real world.
 179 18:51:55 <heidi> And I see everyone identifying landmarks and possible paths and letting everyone know, helping us all to lear.
 180 18:52:12 <heidi> So in other words, you're doing great!
 181 18:52:30 <darci> Once all these instructions are on the foss2serve wiki, I'll have our new student test them.
 182 18:52:36 <heidi> And I can say this as I've seen multiple classes of students go through this process (although not myself).
 183 18:52:43 <heidi> Yes, that would be great darci!
 184 18:52:51 <darci> That should help us find out what works and what needs more detail.
 185 18:52:56 <heidi> Yes, exactly!
 186 18:52:58 <amber> for the instructions to install git on the getting started page, should I make them specifically for mousetrap?
 187 18:53:29 <heidi> Umm, lets make those generic so they can be reused with other projects. Good thought amber.
 188 18:53:38 <heidi> Amber, I have one more thought on the opencv question.
 189 18:53:38 <amber> ok
 190 18:53:50 <heidi> Remember that MouseTrap is an Accessibility project.
 191 18:54:03 <heidi> Therefore there is a larger community that we can turn to. This is the A11y community.
 192 18:54:24 <amber> hmm might be good to look into
 193 18:54:34 <heidi> Speaking of which, has everyone signed up for the a11y (that's 'a' 'one' 'one' 'y') listserv?
 194 18:54:45 <john> no
 195 18:54:52 <john> only the mousetrap listserv
 196 18:54:54 <heidi> #action All sign up for A11y list.
 197 18:55:02 <heidi> Ah, OK.
 198 18:55:19 <heidi> So the A11y team has many developers that might be able to solve our problem.
 199 18:55:33 <heidi> Amber, I would suggest joining that list and posting your request there.
 200 18:55:53 <amber> ok
 201 18:55:54 <heidi> Introduce yourself and indicate that you're part of the academic team that is restarting the MouseTrap project.
 202 18:56:10 <heidi> And then state where you are and your request.
 203 18:56:12 <heidi> Hey stoney!
 204 18:56:17 <darci> Hi Stoney!
 205 18:56:29 <Stoney> hi
 206 18:56:36 <Stoney> sorry i didn't make it earlier
 207 18:56:50 <darci> That's ok...there will be minutes
 208 18:56:50 <Stoney> it slipped my mind with so many other little items on my plate
 209 18:57:03 <Stoney> ok thanks
 210 18:57:05 <amber> do we have a link for a11y?
 211 18:57:08 <heidi> #link https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
 212 18:57:10 <heidi> :-)
 213 18:57:17 <heidi> Great prompt amber!
 214 18:57:23 <amber> thank you
 215 18:57:29 <heidi> :-)
 216 18:58:00 <heidi> So does everyone know what they're doing next?
 217 18:58:10 <amber> ys
 218 18:58:11 <darci> I'm thinking we might want to wrap up...sorry Stoney.
 219 18:58:12 <john> pretty much
 220 18:58:13 <amber> yes*
 221 18:58:31 <Stoney> don't worry about me
 222 18:58:42 <heidi> Stoney, Dark_rose and I might like to get together with you on Monday to walk through git, say around 10?
 223 18:58:49 <heidi> I'll see if Logan is available.
 224 18:59:07 <Stoney> *checking cal*
 225 18:59:25 <Stoney> yup, 10 monday is good
 226 18:59:28 <heidi> I think logan can meet at 10.
 227 18:59:31 <heidi> OK, its a plan.
 228 18:59:36 <heidi> And yes, should wrap up.
 229 18:59:47 <darci> Ok...
 230 18:59:53 <darci> Thank you everyone!
 231 19:00:07 <Stoney> bye
 232 19:00:10 <heidi> Yes, and again, great job!
 233 19:00:25 <darci> Bye all
 234 19:00:29 <heidi> bye
 235 19:00:30 <amber> bye
 236 19:00:30 <john> amber can we talk quick? I have a couple of questions
 237 19:00:34 <amber> sure
 238 19:00:46 <darci> #endmeeting