18:01:36 <darci> #startmeeting
18:01:36 <tota11y> Meeting started Fri Feb  1 18:01:36 2013 CET.  The chair is darci. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:36 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:02:03 <darci> I wanted to let everyone know that I have been working to get meeting minutes up
18:02:37 <darci> https://live.gnome.org/MouseTrap/Meetings/
18:03:04 <darci> Please update anything that seems to need it
18:03:30 <darci> I included a brief agenda in the 02-01 link
18:03:36 <darci> Hi Lori
18:03:55 <Lori> Hi
18:04:00 <darci> #topic updates
18:04:25 <darci> Maybe everyone can provide an update?
18:05:04 <amber> still working with opencv, and possibly trying to find someone familiar with the api
18:05:45 <darci> any luck contacting the person whose link you posted last week?
18:05:49 <dark_rose> WNE: I got Fedora 18 successfully onto our computer, But I have been sick most of the week so I haven't got to much else. I'm going to try to grab the files later tonight when I go back into my lab for a bit and see where I get from there.
18:05:55 <amber> not yet
18:06:46 <darci> john?
18:07:06 <john> Got 18 up and running here, too. Attempted to install Mousetrap, but couldn't install the pygtk, python-pyspi and libglib2.0 as they're not in the repos. Just saw Amber's install method and will try it this weekend.
18:07:58 <darci> Great! We're all running Fedora now...that should help.
18:09:49 <darci> Now that everyone is at least a week or two into a new term, is it harder to find time for this project?
18:10:34 <john> Slowly and surely :)
18:10:55 <dark_rose> Yes and no, I don't have an extremely heavy homework load (at least not yet) but I also work in my lab helping maintain it along with other social activities, so it depends week to week on what's going on ^.^
18:11:13 <amber> doesnt seem to be too much of a problem
18:11:50 <darci> I guess I'm wondering if we should meet every week or perhaps every other week...thoughts?
18:12:13 <amber> every week is good
18:12:15 <john> I'm thinking every week. It's just a hour.
18:12:58 <dark_rose> Every week is good..but sometimes it doesn't seem like much happens in a week. On the flip side, once we get further in more is sure to happen, so in the end every week seems the best.
18:13:18 <darci> Ok...sounds good!
18:13:26 <darci> Hi Heidi!
18:13:30 <heidi> Hi Folks!
18:13:35 <heidi> Sorry to be late.
18:14:16 <darci> We were just doing updates...
18:14:19 <heidi> Ah, good!
18:14:47 <heidi> How far did we get?
18:15:16 <darci> Everyone now has Fedora installed!
18:15:34 <heidi> Yeah!
18:16:02 <darci> Are there any other updates?
18:16:53 <darci> I guess we can move on to Next Steps
18:17:03 <darci> #topic Next Steps
18:17:35 <darci> I guess I have one more update.
18:18:21 <darci> The other student from NCC had decided that he doesn't have time to be involved in the project.
18:18:32 <darci> He notified me via email this week.
18:18:47 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:18:56 <darci> I'm hoping to find someone else next week.
18:18:59 <heidi> dark_rose, what is your next step?
18:19:11 <heidi> Now that we have fedora installed
18:19:54 <john> My next step would be to try Amber's install method (she posted in my status update on the wiki).
18:20:21 <dark_rose> I am going to try to get the files onto the computer later if I can figured it out, lol. I have yet to work with Logan. I'll see how far I can't get on my own until I can get some help, maybe next week from Logan or professor Jackson.
18:20:38 <amber> I'm just going to continue looking at the opencv code and try to find a contact.
18:20:45 <heidi> Righ, you need to go forward without Logan
18:21:28 <heidi> And hang out in this channel. Amber has already downloaded and installed MouseTrap so she might be able to answer questions as well.
18:21:41 <heidi> Also, please document exactly how you downloaded and installed.
18:21:55 <heidi> So that others can follow in your footsteps :-)
18:22:13 <heidi> Amber, try to find a contact who knows something about opencv?
18:22:23 <amber> surely
18:23:36 <darci> Heidi: Any thoughts on making the changes to the project on github vs. using gnome's contribution model?
18:23:58 <heidi> Sorry amber, that was a question. :-) I was asking the "contact" that you referred to was someone who knows opencv.
18:24:08 <amber> yes
18:24:16 <heidi> Ah, got it.
18:24:30 <heidi> We're planning on using gnomes contribution model for the near-term.
18:24:48 * john clueless
18:24:58 <john> Can someone enlighten me on what's the difference?
18:25:03 <heidi> Sure!
18:25:45 <heidi> At one point, we had talked about using a "staging" place such as GitHub to store students code before submitting it to the gnome repository.
18:25:56 <heidi> That is the "github" model.
18:26:30 <heidi> The "gnome" model is to simply use gnome's bugzilla to submit bug reports and use Gnome's git repository to submit code to.
18:26:35 <heidi> Does this make sense?
18:27:43 <heidi> And so if we decide that we get a large enough group of students who are making a lot of changes all at the same time, we may want to use a github account for a local repository.
18:27:49 <heidi> But short term, lets use GNOME.
18:28:01 <john> I think so. :) This might not be a big deal right now since Amber's the only one really coding, but if we're eventually contributing code, shouldn't it be independent from GNOME (both so we don't make fools out of ourselves, and so we can contribute to the code without professors' approval -- the approval would come when the code is contributed to GNOME)
18:28:07 <heidi> One of the things that I have yet to do is to get a Gnome account.
18:28:31 <heidi> Ah, but this is the fun of working in the open source world!
18:28:35 <darci> Heidi: Should students refer to the Gnome Love site?
18:28:50 <heidi> And yes, we can "swap" code back and forth ourselves before we submit to gnome.
18:29:00 <heidi> Darci, yes, please!
18:29:15 <darci> #link https://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove
18:29:19 <heidi> :-)
18:29:24 <amber> so we would store everything locally until we submit it to gnome?
18:29:46 <heidi> Yes, but keep also keeping everyone apprised of your progress.
18:30:05 <heidi> When your code is ready, let us know and we'll pull from your local git repository and test.
18:30:16 <heidi> And give feedback.
18:30:41 <heidi> When we've tested to our satisfaction, we'll submit to gnome.
18:30:44 <amber> ok
18:30:48 <darci> Would it make sense to have everyone working with what amber has now?
18:31:06 <heidi> It would make sense to have everyone working on a working version of what amber has now, yes.
18:31:42 <darci> Should we make this an action item?
18:31:54 <darci> Could it be done by next week?
18:31:55 <lori> I've got to leave, have an appt with my kids.  Sorry...
18:31:58 <heidi> Amber, does your current version compile and run?
18:32:01 <heidi> Bye lori
18:32:06 <darci> Bye!
18:32:08 <amber> kindof?
18:32:09 <amber> bye
18:32:11 <heidi> :-)_
18:32:13 <heidi> :-)
18:32:22 <heidi> OK, so do you have a version that compiles and runs?
18:32:31 <amber> it crashes after a certain point
18:32:36 <heidi> Did you commit such a version to your local repository?
18:32:40 <amber> yes
18:33:00 <heidi> Excellent! Good job!
18:33:03 <heidi> Ah, and does that version have a name/number?
18:33:27 <amber> im not sure what you mean
18:33:55 <john> mousetrap-unstable? ;)
18:34:08 <amber> just mousetrap
18:34:18 <heidi> When you committed that version, did you attach some sort of ID so that if you wanted to you could revert to that version?
18:34:20 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:34:20 <amber> #link https://github.com/amberheilman/mousetrap
18:34:35 <heidi> Ah, OK, so I think what we need is "main".
18:34:47 <heidi> Got it. Sorry, I'm babbling to myself in IRC :-)
18:36:10 <heidi> So what we need are step-by-step instructions on how to pull from amber's version.
18:36:23 <dark_rose> That would be a fantastic help :)
18:36:29 <john> And how to replace a existing installation
18:36:37 <darci> ;-)) I was just going to ask for that!
18:36:52 <heidi> #action Create step-by-step instructions on how to pull the most recent committed version from Amber's github account.
18:36:58 <heidi> There, I've made it an action.
18:37:05 <darci> Thanks!
18:37:45 <dark_rose> The instructions can probably go right under my instructions for installing fedora on the "getting started" page :)
18:37:46 <heidi> dark_rose, lets see if we (or just you depending on my schedule) can sit down with Stoney and do this on Monday.
18:38:01 <heidi> :-) Sure.
18:38:02 <dark_rose> And if I don't figure it out today, I would love that!
18:38:26 <heidi> OK, great. I'll send Stoney email and ask if he can meet with us in the morning. When are your classes?
18:38:41 <heidi> And john, if you figure this out before we do, please let us know.
18:39:24 <dark_rose> I have a 9am, a 1pm, and a 3:30pm
18:39:39 <john> Pulling from a github account? I've never used git… :/
18:39:46 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:39:58 <amber> i can help if someone needs some git advice
18:40:11 <heidi> So you're at the point where you have fedora installed. Have you downloaded and installed Mousetrap john?
18:40:20 <heidi> Amber, super!
18:40:42 <heidi> Amber, I'm assuming that you have a local git repository on your machine, yes?
18:40:47 <amber> yes
18:41:28 <john> Not yet heidi -- stuck at not being about to install pygtk, python-pysqi and libglib2.0. Amber posted under my status update with her install method and I'm going to try that.
18:41:44 <dark_rose> Don't worry john, I haven't used it either XD
18:41:46 <heidi> Would you be able to put the instructions or a link to the instructions on the "getting started" page on foss2serve?
18:42:00 <heidi> #link http://www.xcitegroup.org/foss2serve/index.php/Getting_Started
18:42:31 <darci> I think they are on the status page.
18:42:32 <amber> sure.
18:42:38 <heidi> Dark_rose and John, do feel free to set up a common irc time to work through getting Mousetrap installed.
18:42:50 <john> Should I edit the instructions to add instructions on how to make the USB stick in the first place?
18:42:53 <heidi> Ah, got it.
18:43:08 * heidi looking...
18:43:14 <darci> Yes, that would be great!
18:43:41 <dark_rose> Will do, I'll base it off of my progress tonight. And yes john that would be great. I got the flashdrive from someone else so I don't know how to make it.
18:44:16 <heidi> I didn't see the git installation in structions on the status page.
18:44:33 <heidi> So amber if you could put those on the "Getting Started" page, that would be most helpful.
18:45:03 <darci> Sorry, I thought you were talking about the instructions to install pygtk, python-pysqi, etc.
18:45:04 <amber> on it now
18:45:08 <heidi> Ah, yes.
18:45:14 <heidi> I see that. Yes, helpful.
18:45:32 <heidi> We also need instructions on how to download and install MouseTrap. Unless i'm not seeing them on the status page.
18:45:42 <heidi> Amber, did you have any trouble with the initial download and install?
18:45:44 <darci> #action put instructions on git installation on the "Getting Started" page
18:45:52 <amber> just the install
18:45:57 <amber> and the dependencies
18:46:00 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:46:52 <heidi> So when we create the download and install instructions, lets include a link to the status page for more installation information.
18:47:11 <heidi> #action include a link in the instructions to the "Status" page for install issues.
18:47:45 <heidi> OK, let me do a learning check.
18:47:50 <heidi> How is everyone feeling?
18:47:57 <heidi> How many are feeling lost?
18:48:25 <amber> just a little
18:48:51 <heidi> I want to encourage you all. I know that this feel like we're making slow progress, but we're making good progress!
18:49:06 <darci> Are you asking just the students or the professors too?
18:49:10 <heidi> This is an entirely new experience and we've all jumped into the deep end on a real project.
18:49:13 <heidi> Oh, profs too!!
18:49:15 <heidi> :-)
18:49:20 <heidi> I'm definitely feeling lost.
18:49:21 <john> If amber is feeling lost, I'm likely doomed. :)
18:49:26 <john> ha
18:49:29 <heidi> :-) Never!
18:49:32 <amber> lol i doubt it
18:49:48 <darci> Ok...then this prof is feeling lost too...although a little less lost each day!
18:49:49 <heidi> What you're feeling is the feeling of just beginning any large project.
18:49:58 <dark_rose> I'm feeling okay, slowly getting there. I think I'll feel more comfortable when everything is on the computer and I see code lol.
18:50:12 <heidi> Any project of real-world size is too big for one person to grasp. A
18:50:22 <heidi> And none of us have had that experience before.
18:50:30 <heidi> So it is natural to be feeling a bit lots.
18:50:34 <heidi> "lost"
18:50:47 <heidi> And I think we're doing a great job of figuring out how to get unlost.
18:51:16 <heidi> And finding our own way is much more difficult than having the instructor or our boss tell us, but it is also what happens in the real world.
18:51:55 <heidi> And I see everyone identifying landmarks and possible paths and letting everyone know, helping us all to lear.
18:52:12 <heidi> So in other words, you're doing great!
18:52:30 <darci> Once all these instructions are on the foss2serve wiki, I'll have our new student test them.
18:52:36 <heidi> And I can say this as I've seen multiple classes of students go through this process (although not myself).
18:52:43 <heidi> Yes, that would be great darci!
18:52:51 <darci> That should help us find out what works and what needs more detail.
18:52:56 <heidi> Yes, exactly!
18:52:58 <amber> for the instructions to install git on the getting started page, should I make them specifically for mousetrap?
18:53:29 <heidi> Umm, lets make those generic so they can be reused with other projects. Good thought amber.
18:53:38 <heidi> Amber, I have one more thought on the opencv question.
18:53:38 <amber> ok
18:53:50 <heidi> Remember that MouseTrap is an Accessibility project.
18:54:03 <heidi> Therefore there is a larger community that we can turn to. This is the A11y community.
18:54:24 <amber> hmm might be good to look into
18:54:34 <heidi> Speaking of which, has everyone signed up for the a11y (that's 'a' 'one' 'one' 'y') listserv?
18:54:45 <john> no
18:54:52 <john> only the mousetrap listserv
18:54:54 <heidi> #action All sign up for A11y list.
18:55:02 <heidi> Ah, OK.
18:55:19 <heidi> So the A11y team has many developers that might be able to solve our problem.
18:55:33 <heidi> Amber, I would suggest joining that list and posting your request there.
18:55:53 <amber> ok
18:55:54 <heidi> Introduce yourself and indicate that you're part of the academic team that is restarting the MouseTrap project.
18:56:10 <heidi> And then state where you are and your request.
18:56:12 <heidi> Hey stoney!
18:56:17 <darci> Hi Stoney!
18:56:29 <Stoney> hi
18:56:36 <Stoney> sorry i didn't make it earlier
18:56:50 <darci> That's ok...there will be minutes
18:56:50 <Stoney> it slipped my mind with so many other little items on my plate
18:57:03 <Stoney> ok thanks
18:57:05 <amber> do we have a link for a11y?
18:57:08 <heidi> #link https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
18:57:10 <heidi> :-)
18:57:17 <heidi> Great prompt amber!
18:57:23 <amber> thank you
18:57:29 <heidi> :-)
18:58:00 <heidi> So does everyone know what they're doing next?
18:58:10 <amber> ys
18:58:11 <darci> I'm thinking we might want to wrap up...sorry Stoney.
18:58:12 <john> pretty much
18:58:13 <amber> yes*
18:58:31 <Stoney> don't worry about me
18:58:42 <heidi> Stoney, Dark_rose and I might like to get together with you on Monday to walk through git, say around 10?
18:58:49 <heidi> I'll see if Logan is available.
18:59:07 <Stoney> *checking cal*
18:59:25 <Stoney> yup, 10 monday is good
18:59:28 <heidi> I think logan can meet at 10.
18:59:31 <heidi> OK, its a plan.
18:59:36 <heidi> And yes, should wrap up.
18:59:47 <darci> Ok...
18:59:53 <darci> Thank you everyone!
19:00:07 <Stoney> bye
19:00:10 <heidi> Yes, and again, great job!
19:00:25 <darci> Bye all
19:00:29 <heidi> bye
19:00:30 <amber> bye
19:00:30 <john> amber can we talk quick? I have a couple of questions
19:00:34 <amber> sure
19:00:46 <darci> #endmeeting