Attachment '20080108.txt'
Download 1 <ebassi> we can begin, then
2 <mclasen> wrt to "next gio release"
3 <mclasen> err, next glib release
4 <mclasen> that has happened yesterday
5 <mclasen> partly because I was confused about stable vs devel deadlines...
6 <mclasen> and I think it should have all of the major api changes for gio at this point
7 <ebassi> mclasen: a question about gio usage - is it safe to start using gio in gtk+ trunk? I have a patch for getting the mime types for the recent files on unix/win32 using gio and I wanted to start using the file monitor as well for reducing power consumption
8 <mclasen> I think it is safe, certainly
9 <mclasen> the file monitor api did change in 2.15.1
10 <mclasen> but it should be final now
11 <ebassi> okay, thanks
12 <chpe> what about the filesystem backend? is that ready for libgnomeui (feature freeze for 2.22 is next week) ?
13 <mclasen> we have had it it in rawhide for some weeks now, and it seems to work as well as the rest of the file chooser...
14 <pbor> I do not think it's a major issue, but note that a gio backend for for the filechooser is a bit of a regression for apps still using gnome-vfs
15 <pbor> (since it cannot browser ftp etc)
16 <garnacho> chpe: mostly I think, I cant cook a patch today or tomorrow
17 <chpe> garnacho: can or can't ? :)
18 <alex_> pbor: Thats more of a general regression
19 <garnacho> chpe: argh, can :)
20 <chpe> garnacho: that's be great
21 <alex_> pbor: At the moment it looks likely that we won't get an ftp backend for 2.22
22 <alex_> I would love it if someone wanted to work on onw
23 <alex_> one
24 <pbor> alex_: sure, but an apt can "opt in" to use gio as a lib, while the filechooser is what it gets from gtk
25 <pbor> app*
26 <alex_> pbor: sure, but the file manager (and thus the "desktop") uses gio
27 <danw> alex_: would a generic wrap-a-gnome-vfs-backend-into-a-gvfs-backend backend be easier?
28 <tbf> so the ftp regression is general
29 <pbor> alex_: anyway as I told you the other day I don't think it's a big problem, just something to be aware of
30 <alex_> danw: I'm not sure really.
31 <alex_> An ftp backend shouldn't be to much work
32 <alex_> I think getting a gnome-vfs mapping backend going is easy
33 <alex_> but getting it to work well in the corner cases will be quite hard
34 <mclasen> alex_: what are the other major "missing-backend" regressions at this point ?
35 <alex_> computer:, network:, burn:, http/dav, obex-ftp
36 <tielie> dont want to interrput the discussion but I checked the gvfs base class for some days ago and found that it has an callbackfunc named *delete isnt this a reserved word in some languages like c++? Could this give problems when write bindings?
37 <alex_> I'll probably finish computer tomorrow
38 <tielie> alex_, webdav/http is importtant backend
39 * jdahlin reserves tickets to the berlin hackfest
40 <alex_> then i'll do network and burn
41 <alex_> gicmo/danw is working on http/dav
42 <alex_> danw: status?
43 <tielie> is there no one working on http/webdav backends?
44 <tielie> hupps
45 <danw> alex_: i still wasn't working on it. i was looking for gicmo on irc this morning but he wasn't around
46 <alex_> rhult started on obex-ftp but had to stop due to lack of time
47 <hpj> alex_: confirm the ftp backend non-availability, i haven't had time to work on it
48 <alex_> danw: yeah, he's been away during xmas
49 <alex_> danw: but was around yesterday a bit
50 <alex_> danw: He seems busy
51 <danw> alex_: so i don't know what the state is, or even where the code is
52 <danw> alex_: busy-with-http-backend or too busy to work on it?
53 <alex_> danw: Maybe you can mail him and ask about the status
54 <danw> yeah
55 <alex_> danw: maybe he needs some help with it
56 <alex_> danw: busy-with-life as i read it
57 <danw> mailed
58 <alex_> tielie: So, i'm no c++ expert
59 <alex_> tielie: but being a keyword seems sort of bad
60 <alex_> anyone know c++ details like that?
61 <chpe> alex_: C++ keyword in header is definitely a problem. we had that in gtk+ a few times, there's a test for it now to avoid them
62 <chpe> or at least I thought there was a test, can't seem to find it now
63 <behdad> alex_: pango has a test to compile all headers with c++. check pango/cxx-test.C. I remember tbf doing something similar in glib?
64 <behdad> maybe it was gtk
65 <tbf> behdad: gtk, afair
66 <behdad> nah, glib/tests/cxx-test is there
67 <behdad> alex_: just hook up gio into it
68 <behdad> and gthread probably
69 <behdad> (and gio-unix.h)
70 <mclasen> coming back to the filechooser backend
71 <alex_> seems to work..
72 <mclasen> putting it in libgnomeui in _addition_ to the gnome-vfs one shouldn't block on the regressions, right ?
73 <chpe> yes, I assumed it wouldn't _replace_ the gnome-vfs one, just be parallel to it
74 <pbor> mclasen: well, as far as I understand you can have just one default backend... so if the gio backend is used you'll see the regressions even if the gnome-vfs backend is there... or am I misunderstanding?
75 <alex_> still, how does an app pick the backend?
76 <mclasen> pbor: right
77 <mclasen> alex_: there is a gconf key
78 <mclasen> apps can override it when constructing the file chooser, but they rarely do
79 <alex_> i though it was just a "can use uris" or not
80 <mclasen> thats a separate thing
81 <tbf> can we check, that gnome-vfs is initialized?
82 <tielie> One wierd thiong i notivced in the gtkfilechooserbackend was that the sftp mount didnt showup in the backend even if the volume code was exactly the same as in nautilus?
83 <alex_> I commited the updated cxx-test. Works fine with gio.
84 <tbf> in that case load the gnome-vfs backend, otherwise gvfs?
85 <tbf> (i know: whack idea)
86 <alex_> kinda hard to do without linking to gnome-vfs, isn't it?
87 <alex_> Also, doesn't e.g. libgnomeui init gnome-vfs?
88 <danw> i thought libgnomeui set gtk to use the gnome-vfs backend rather than the default backend?
89 <chpe> it does, yes
90 <chpe> danw: g-s-d does, via the libgnome schema entry for it
91 <behdad> alex_: should the toplevel gio include be gio.h instead of gio/gio.h?
92 <behdad> I mean:
93 <behdad> #include <glib.h>
94 <behdad> #include <gmodule.h>
95 <behdad> #include <glib-object.h>
96 <behdad> #include <gio/gio.h>
97 <behdad> doesn't look right
98 <alex_> behdad: it was discussed on the list
99 <alex_> we're not really consistent in the stack
100 <chpe> how about making the gio backend opt-in for 2.22? ie. the schema stays at gnome-vfs backend, and apps that are gio-aware explicitly set the gtksetting to "gio" ?
101 <alex_> with e.g. gtk being gtk/gtk.h
102 <behdad> right, but in the same module at least...
103 <behdad> but if you already discussed, fine.
104 <alex_> I kinda like the subdir thing
105 <mclasen> behdad: between glib and gtk+, the damage is already done
106 <alex_> seems less namespace polluting
107 <mclasen> in terms of consistency
108 <behdad> maybe make the old ones also work like new ones. that is, make glib/glib.h work
109 <alex_> more obvious that the thing is some library rather than a local include
110 <behdad> yes
111 <mclasen> chpe: I don't really think apps should do anything special; having the opt-in be a user decision is fine for me
112 <mclasen> until we are ready to do the switch
113 <alex_> mclasen: Its really an app decision though
114 <alex_> mclasen: its the app that loads the file returned by the file selector
115 <alex_> and if it loads with gnome-vfs, it should get a gnome-vfs uri
116 <alex_> and vice versa
117 <alex_> Now, in practice the uris are the same
118 <mclasen> I don't think the file chooser returns anything gnome-vfs specific, does it ?
119 <alex_> so its mostly a problem with regressions in gvfs backend support
120 <garnacho> btw, as for gtk+ 2.16, are there any plans wrt the filechooser backend?
121 <alex_> mclasen: one could imagine a gio backend that gnome-vfs doesn't support
122 <alex_> mclasen: kinda surprising for the app
123 <alex_> But, in practice, probably not an issue
124 <mclasen> alex_: I guess apps have to always be prepared for errors when loading from uris anyway, no ?
125 <alex_> yeah
126 <alex_> garnacho: i'd assume that for gtk 2.16 we'd drop the file selector backend and just use gio
127 <alex_> its already a vfs abstraction
128 <garnacho> alex_: yeah, makes completely sense :)
129 <mclasen> alex_: there is a bit of a compatibility question though
130 <mclasen> since people might have custom backends that stop to work at that point
131 <mclasen> not a common thing to do though
132 <alex_> i guess... Do we care about that? the filesystem api is only partially api/abi stable, and we already changed it
133 <alex_> Anyway, are there more gio questions?
134 <mclasen> not from me, at least
135 <mclasen> except for one
136 <tielie> mclasen, alex_ , if there is people have custom backend that breaks then we should help them fixit. Atleast me will be glad to replace it :-D
137 <mclasen> what api additions do you foresee before gnome 2.22 ?
138 <alex_> davidz had a few things
139 <alex_> I think the major one is a way to get some sort of identifier for the backing object for GVolume/GDrive/GMount
140 <alex_> so you can go e.g. from a GVolume for a gphoto:/// mount to something you can feed to libgphoto and do more stuff
141 <alex_> There was also some talk about having a content type for mounts (i.e. music or photos) but thats probably gonna be prototyped in nautilus first
142 <mclasen> ok
143 <mclasen> what was the next topic ?
144 <alex_> I was also thinking today if we want defines for e.g. "standard::*" file attribute matchers?
145 <mclasen> what would that be ? just some define to say ALL_IJN
146 <mclasen> ALL_STANDARD_ATTRIBUTES ?
147 <alex_> G_FILE_ATTRIBUTE_STANDARD_ALL ?
148 <alex_> Maybe it just complicates stuff
149 <mclasen> alternatively, you could do defines for the namespaces
150 <mclasen> and teach the matcher to treat "standard" like "standard::*" ?
151 <mclasen> alex_: did you want to add the size-in-bytes attribute, btw ?
152 <alex_> I wonder if it doesn't do that actually
153 <alex_> mclasen: oh, yeah. Maybe we should do that
154 <alex_> I dunno how important it is though
155 <mclasen> not very, I think
156 <tbf> hmm.... your little loop is some master piece
157 <alex_> anyway, lets move on
158 <mclasen> ok, before we leave glib
159 <mclasen> does anybody have urgent api additions in the queue ?
160 <mclasen> otherwise, I'd like to do an api frozen release as soon as the last gio additions are in
161 <mclasen> probably next wewek
162 * pbor has a gthread api which would like to see in... but I need a bit of time to get back to it
163 <pbor> well gthreadpool
164 <chpe> mclasen: not really urgent, bug #449565 would be nice to have
165 <behdad> note that we need release team permission now for api changes
166 <behdad> better to keep them to a minimum
167 <ebassi> mclasen: I'd like for someone to comment on g_format_time_for_display() (bug 325064)
168 <mclasen> chpe: you need to track down tjafk for that one
169 <chpe> ok
170 <tbf> tim seems to be quite busy those days...
171 <xan> chpe: and G_DEFINE_INTERFACE ;)
172 <tbf> and G_DEFINE_QUARK
173 <mclasen> tbf: I think he was sick
174 <tbf> mclasen: ah, ok.
175 <pbor> the gthreadpool one I was referring to: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=456182
176 <behdad> yes please to both those G_DEFINE_* macros
177 <mclasen> ebassi: I'll look at it again
178 <chpe> xan: the INTERFACE variant has its own bug, #320482
179 <xan> chpe, yep, I remember
180 <xan> and we need to comment there because in ephy we use it in the way that it would break with the proposed impl iirc
181 <mclasen> ok we are over time already
182 <danw> the G_DEFINE_INTERFACE patch probably should be updated for the latest in g_once goodness too
183 <mclasen> anything else we need to discuss today ?
184 <tbf> guess extended layout also can be discussed on list?
185 <mclasen> tbf: what is the latest news on that ?
186 <mclasen> did you get it to work with size groups ?
187 <alex_> oh, wrt to #defines
188 <tbf> mclasen: sent patches with implement something similiar to havoc's api for gtklabel and gtkhbox
189 <alex_> i had to make my own for a G_IMPLEMENT_INTERFACE for dynamic modules
190 <tbf> mclasen: and got behdads natural size allocation right now
191 <tbf> mclasen: for size-groups vs. natural size i'd still like to hear some opinions
192 <alex_> G_IMPLEMENT_INTERFACE_DYNAMIC
193 <behdad> alex_: file a bug so we don't lose them
194 <tbf> behdad: just replacing minimum-size with natural-size in size groups breaks your distribution goals
195 <tbf> behdad for natural size aware containers
196 <behdad> honestly I don't quite know how size groups interact with allocation
197 <behdad> maybe I should study them a bit
198 <tbf> behdad: basically they just figure out the minimum size for all attached widget, and tweak the size-request each widget reports accordingly
199 <mclasen> tbf: currently size groups use the max of the min-sizes right ?
200 <tbf> behdad: well, plus some graph coloring and such to deal with widgets attached to multiple size groups
201 <tbf> mclasen: yup
202 <behdad> right
203 <mclasen> and the question is what to do with the natural sizes ?
204 <behdad> so, the individual widgets report the group's desired sizes, right?
205 <mclasen> like max or some kind of average
206 <alex_> behdad: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=508157
207 <tbf> yup
208 <behdad> so, natural size for group should be max natural size of children
209 <tbf> 'cause otherwise natural size aware allocation breaks size groups
210 <behdad> min size for group should be max min size of children
211 <behdad> how does that work?
212 <tbf> size groups work with the assumtion, that widgets without expand flags will never get expanded over the minimum size
213 <behdad> humm, I see
214 <behdad> ok I see where the problem is now
215 <behdad> probably make widgets in a size group always get their natural size or something, no stretch.
216 <tbf> s/their size/their size groups natural size/
217 <behdad> right
218 <tbf> which is the max. natural size of all widgets
219 <behdad> we can improve it later
220 <tbf> behdad: at least that would look somewhat correctly
221 <behdad> yeah
222 * mclasen needs to pay attention to the washing machine repair man
223 <mclasen> later
Attached Files
To refer to attachments on a page, use attachment:filename, as shown below in the list of files. Do NOT use the URL of the [get] link, since this is subject to change and can break easily.You are not allowed to attach a file to this page.