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   1 Feb 12 21:00:26 -->	ebassi (~ebassi@86.166.83.62) has joined #gtk-devel
   2 Feb 12 21:00:49 -->	tko (~tko@jumbo180.adsl.netsonic.fi) has joined #gtk-devel
   3 Feb 12 21:02:21 -->	behdad (~behdad@32.60.107.139) has joined #gtk-devel
   4 Feb 12 21:02:24 ---	ebassi has changed the topic to: meeting time :: 20:00 UTC, 2008-02-12
   5 Feb 12 21:02:50 <herz1>	meat!
   6 Feb 12 21:02:55 ---	herz1 is now known as herzi
   7 Feb 12 21:09:28 <ebassi>	or soup (in my case)
   8 Feb 12 21:13:42 -->	mclasen (~mclasen@c-24-218-44-243.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #gtk-devel
   9 Feb 12 21:13:52 <ebassi>	hi mclasen
  10 Feb 12 21:13:53 <mclasen>	sorry for being late
  11 Feb 12 21:14:05 <mclasen>	kids insisted on getting ice cream after school
  12 Feb 12 21:14:13 <mclasen>	...in the middle of winter...
  13 Feb 12 21:14:27 ---	ebassi has changed the topic to: meeting time :: 20:00 UTC, 2008-02-12 :: http://live.gnome.org/GTK+/Meetings
  14 Feb 12 21:14:32 <ebassi>	heh
  15 Feb 12 21:16:10 <mclasen>	do we have an agenda for today ?
  16 Feb 12 21:16:18 *	mclasen came unprepared
  17 Feb 12 21:16:38 <ebassi>	mclasen: yes, lemme copy and paste
  18 Feb 12 21:16:49 <ebassi>	* Remove linux-fb backend because it's unmaintained since stone age (mitch)
  19 Feb 12 21:17:00 <ebassi>	Add GRegion (see bug 508540)
  20 Feb 12 21:17:07 <ebassi>	Offscreen redirection (see bug 318807)
  21 Feb 12 21:17:14 <ebassi>	Migrating gtk.org contents to the machine that is currently cube.gtk.org (timj)
  22 Feb 12 21:17:25 <ebassi>	and the evergreen "Miscellaneous"
  23 Feb 12 21:17:42 <ebassi>	no gio api status, though :-)
  24 Feb 12 21:18:14 <mclasen>	ok, lets go then
  25 Feb 12 21:18:27 <mclasen>	the first one seems like a no-brainer
  26 Feb 12 21:18:40 <mclasen>	we haven't shipped the linux-fb backend in tarballs for quite a while already
  27 Feb 12 21:19:05 <timj>	mitch volounteers to remove it
  28 Feb 12 21:19:17 <mclasen>	there are some cleanup tasks after that, though
  29 Feb 12 21:19:26 <mclasen>	removing linux-fb stuff from the api docs
  30 Feb 12 21:19:52 <mclasen>	and some of the decorated window stuff in gtk/ could possibly also go away then ?
  31 Feb 12 21:19:56 -->	xan (~xan@a88-112-51-91.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #gtk-devel
  32 Feb 12 21:20:34 -->	Company (~company@e176107117.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #gtk-devel
  33 Feb 12 21:22:03 <timj>	mclasen: possilbly. can we make this an action item for mitch and simply list any details next to it?
  34 Feb 12 21:22:17 <mclasen>	sure
  35 Feb 12 21:22:17 <timj>	and then move on...
  36 Feb 12 21:23:02 <ebassi>	next item is GRegion and relative bug
  37 Feb 12 21:23:26 <Company>	i think this is pretty much solved by now
  38 Feb 12 21:23:52 <mclasen>	oh, it is ?
  39 Feb 12 21:24:07 <Company>	i asked various people about their opinion
  40 Feb 12 21:24:24 <timj>	heh, haven't seen the code yet and like to review it first
  41 Feb 12 21:24:30 <herzi>	"various"?
  42 Feb 12 21:24:31 <Company>	and i the general consensus seemed to be that it's very graphics related
  43 Feb 12 21:24:31 <timj>	(am i not on CC on that bug?)
  44 Feb 12 21:24:49 <Company>	and not really applicable to glib
  45 Feb 12 21:25:57 <Company>	herzi: people interested in gregion and glib maintainers - want a list? ;)
  46 Feb 12 21:26:41 <Company>	so unless people have a strong opinion for putting gregion into glib, i'd suggest closing it as wontfix
  47 Feb 12 21:27:31 <mclasen>	still not nice to copy this stuff around so much 
  48 Feb 12 21:27:41 <Company>	yeah
  49 Feb 12 21:27:42 <mclasen>	without ever improving it
  50 Feb 12 21:28:11 <Company>	i think it'd be best to put it into cairo or use pixman's version
  51 Feb 12 21:28:56 <timj>	ah, i thought this was a pled to get GRegion in...
  52 Feb 12 21:29:03 <Company>	it's pretty useless without other graphics-related stuff (like rectangles)
  53 Feb 12 21:29:18 <Company>	timj: it was - but i changed my opinion after hearing the feedback :)
  54 Feb 12 21:29:36 <mclasen>	yeah, that doesn't help people who need 64bit or double versions, but anyway, lets move on then
  55 Feb 12 21:30:03 <timj>	mclasen: the rapicorn version is "improved", it maintaines 64bt regions
  56 Feb 12 21:30:07 <timj>	64bit
  57 Feb 12 21:30:25 -->	Lievenh (~lieven@209.80-203-35.nextgentel.com) has joined #gtk-devel
  58 Feb 12 21:32:14 <mclasen>	next point was offscreen redirection
  59 Feb 12 21:33:01 *	mclasen must admit that he didn't follow the latest activity on that bug
  60 Feb 12 21:33:05 <ebassi>	things have been moving on that front
  61 Feb 12 21:33:39 <timj>	mclasen: there are some issues to straighten out and the we should be able to get at least the pixmap redirection in soon.
  62 Feb 12 21:34:01 <timj>	the remaining issues are mentioned in a recent comment on the report and in an email to gtk-devel-list awaiting feedback from alex
  63 Feb 12 21:34:23 <timj>	after that, we'll start tackling event handling
  64 Feb 12 21:34:26 <mclasen>	I'll poke him tomorrow
  65 Feb 12 21:34:36 <ebassi>	mclasen: thanks
  66 Feb 12 21:34:46 <timj>	ebassi: the WindowImpl you mentioned suitable for an extra bug report, is that something that you could start in parallel?
  67 Feb 12 21:35:12 <ebassi>	timj: yes - I already have that broken down. I'll send a mail to gtk-devel and open a new bug
  68 Feb 12 21:35:17 <mclasen>	you say "getting it in soon", that brings me to a point I wanted to bring up
  69 Feb 12 21:35:18 <timj>	great.
  70 Feb 12 21:35:28 <mclasen>	I feel that we've gone without a devel snapshot too long
  71 Feb 12 21:35:38 <mclasen>	and wonder if we should do one soon
  72 Feb 12 21:35:54 <timj>	mclasen: a devel snapshot at any point in time would be good as far as i'm concerned
  73 Feb 12 21:35:54 <mclasen>	e.g. before landing pixmap redirection 
  74 Feb 12 21:36:03 <kris>	about devel snapshots
  75 Feb 12 21:36:08 <mclasen>	I'll look at doing one 
  76 Feb 12 21:36:12 <kris>	with which version number are we going to go now?
  77 Feb 12 21:36:16 <kris>	still with synching with glib?
  78 Feb 12 21:36:26 <timj>	i don't think the exact feature set matters too much as long as we have semi-frequent releaes again ;)
  79 Feb 12 21:36:36 <--	artista_frustrado has quit (Leaving)
  80 Feb 12 21:38:17 <mclasen>	kris: would you consider it very bad if I do a 2.15.x devel snapshot now and we re-bump to 2.17.x later on to sync up with glib ?
  81 Feb 12 21:39:00 <kris>	me personally no, but I (and some others have also raised this concern) don't really see the need to sync up with glib
  82 Feb 12 21:40:03 <timj>	well, there's no technical need either way, but keeping versions in sync is definitely less confusing for most people
  83 Feb 12 21:40:20 -->	herz1 (~herzi@p578EBB4D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #gtk-devel
  84 Feb 12 21:41:46 *	timj has seen people on several meetings go off on being confused at the exact versions glib and gtk are at
  85 Feb 12 21:42:50 *	mclasen goes back to pixmap redirection
  86 Feb 12 21:43:24 <mclasen>	timj: so the next step is to read your gtk-devel mail and review the pixmap redirection patch, I guess ?
  87 Feb 12 21:44:22 <--	herzi has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  88 Feb 12 21:44:33 -->	leio (~leio@88-196-18-85-dsl.hps.estpak.ee) has joined #gtk-devel
  89 Feb 12 21:44:39 *	behdad catches up
  90 Feb 12 21:44:44 <behdad>	any hackfest discussion yet?
  91 Feb 12 21:44:54 <mclasen>	not yet
  92 Feb 12 21:45:23 <behdad>	timj: please, no version catchup.  I think it's common expectation by now that glib has more frequent releases than gtk+
  93 Feb 12 21:45:42 <behdad>	unless the rule would be "gtk+ will be always released with the version number of current stable glib"
  94 Feb 12 21:46:07 <timj>	behdad: yep, the basic point is to make things *simple* and not more complicated
  95 Feb 12 21:46:38 <behdad>	and afterall, people can't tell the latest stable version of all the hundreds of components in a GNU/Linux system by heart.  how is GKT+ different?
  96 Feb 12 21:47:01 <behdad>	(GTK+ of course..)
  97 Feb 12 21:47:05 *	mclasen feels that we won't be able to resolve this issue 
  98 Feb 12 21:47:14 <behdad>	sorry.  lets move on.
  99 Feb 12 21:47:16 <mclasen>	I'll just pick a number at release time...
 100 Feb 12 21:47:27 <mclasen>	another version -related topic that came up in the past
 101 Feb 12 21:47:36 <mclasen>	is double bumping
 102 Feb 12 21:47:44 <mclasen>	ie pre-release and post-release
 103 Feb 12 21:48:01 <ebassi>	that would be helpful
 104 Feb 12 21:48:01 <mclasen>	to have a version number that clearly identifies svn content between releases
 105 Feb 12 21:48:05 *	behdad supports that
 106 Feb 12 21:48:09 <timj>	mclasen: if you want to review the recent pixmap redirection patch, that'd be good. (no idea how thorough your initial read through alex' patch was)
 107 Feb 12 21:48:10 <mclasen>	is anybody opposed to that ?
 108 Feb 12 21:48:36 <mclasen>	timj: not very thorough, I mostly enjoyed the screencast...
 109 Feb 12 21:48:37 <timj>	mclasen: not, opposed. i think version inflations are fine if they help people ;)
 110 Feb 12 21:48:41 <behdad>	I reviewed alex' previously.  will look into the git tree
 111 Feb 12 21:49:27 <mclasen>	time to move on
 112 Feb 12 21:49:30 <timj>	mclasen: my last comment & email should be fairly self-explanatory wrt whats missing
 113 Feb 12 21:49:37 <mclasen>	timj: cube.gtk.org ?
 114 Feb 12 21:50:25 <timj>	yeah, i'm basically waiting for Snorfle to setup apache and copy over ftp. then i can move the web and we could switch DNS. he's unfortunately not here though...
 115 Feb 12 21:51:20 <mclasen>	that is going to take over www.gtk.org and ftp.gtk.org ?
 116 Feb 12 21:51:26 <timj>	yes.
 117 Feb 12 21:51:45 <timj>	and finally remedy the shoratge on disk space
 118 Feb 12 21:51:46 <mclasen>	looking forward to it
 119 Feb 12 21:51:59 <timj>	once moved, i plan to also upload some historical versions, etc
 120 Feb 12 21:53:05 <mclasen>	will the ftp directory structure be the same as before ?
 121 Feb 12 21:53:12 <behdad>	timj: disk space fix would be quite welcome
 122 Feb 12 21:53:44 <behdad>	a relevant question I guess is, why do we not use gnome's infrastructure again?
 123 Feb 12 21:54:19 *	behdad also points out /home/behdad/fetch-module that can fetch and install new pango/glib/gtk+ releases on gtk.org ftp
 124 Feb 12 21:55:42 <mclasen>	how will accounts be managed on cube ?
 125 Feb 12 21:56:46 <timj>	mclasen: i think snorfle plans to simply rsync ftp and home/ over
 126 Feb 12 21:56:58 <mclasen>	ah, ok
 127 Feb 12 21:58:32 <timj>	behdad: i have no idea what "moving to gnome's infrastructure" would involve. moving to cube is a simple and safe copy. and from what i understand, bkor is quite loaded with other gnome admin tasks anyway
 128 Feb 12 22:00:29 <mclasen>	timj: whats the timeframe for the move ? as soon as dns switches over ?
 129 Feb 12 22:01:03 <timj>	mclasen: no idea. i'm waiting for snorfle atm
 130 Feb 12 22:01:21 <mclasen>	ah, ok
 131 Feb 12 22:01:37 <mclasen>	I guess you'll let us know when it happens
 132 Feb 12 22:01:49 <timj>	sure
 133 Feb 12 22:02:29 <mclasen>	last point was "misc"
 134 Feb 12 22:02:41 <mclasen>	behdad: you wanted to talk about the hackfest ?
 135 Feb 12 22:03:22 <behdad>	mclasen: was going to reply to timj's mail.  can still do that given that not many people seem to be here
 136 Feb 12 22:03:40 <behdad>	re putting together a schedule basically.
 137 Feb 12 22:03:49 <timj>	30 lurkers ;)
 138 Feb 12 22:03:55 <behdad>	heh
 139 Feb 12 22:04:21 <behdad>	for now, "EVERYONE PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU BOUGHT YOUR TIX" is all I have to say :)
 140 Feb 12 22:04:26 <ebassi>	also, there's the problem of on-site boxes for people without laptop
 141 Feb 12 22:04:30 <mclasen>	except for me :-(
 142 Feb 12 22:04:59 <behdad>	ebassi: right.  guess that's one box only.
 143 Feb 12 22:05:13 <timj>	mclasen: couldn't you even partially attend?
 144 Feb 12 22:05:17 <mclasen>	behdad: might also caution people about not bringing secret stuff on laptops :-)
 145 Feb 12 22:05:30 <mclasen>	timj: unfortunately, it is not working out
 146 Feb 12 22:05:34 <mclasen>	l
 147 Feb 12 22:05:34 <behdad>	mclasen: why's that again?
 148 Feb 12 22:05:38 <herz1>	behdad: I will buy the tickets later, there's no advantage in advance buying
 149 Feb 12 22:05:53 <kris>	I will buy like this or next week
 150 Feb 12 22:06:00 <mclasen>	behdad: unless you want TSA/customs to read it...
 151 Feb 12 22:06:13 <kris>	since they are only train tickets
 152 Feb 12 22:06:20 *	behdad bought a half-price train ticket for frankfurt<->berlin
 153 Feb 12 22:06:20 <bratsche>	Oh, I just realized this is happening now.
 154 Feb 12 22:06:57 <behdad>	mclasen: humm, the US has opened the lid on my laptop before, but never the europeans
 155 Feb 12 22:06:58 <kris>	nice
 156 Feb 12 22:07:10 <kris>	apparently there is a direct train amsterdam->berlin so that should be productive
 157 Feb 12 22:07:19 <kris>	behdad: I think the lids of my laptops have been opened in sweden once
 158 Feb 12 22:07:23 <behdad>	kris: coming from amsterdam? :-D
 159 Feb 12 22:07:24 <herz1>	kris: ice? that should work
 160 Feb 12 22:07:38 <kris>	behdad: well, first need to do leiden->amsterdam which is like 30mins
 161 Feb 12 22:07:41 <kris>	herz1: no, IC
 162 Feb 12 22:07:41 *	behdad always makes sure gnome-screensaver is running
 163 Feb 12 22:07:47 <herz1>	will be okay, too
 164 Feb 12 22:07:53 <kris>	herz1:  for ICE you need to transfer somewhere
 165 Feb 12 22:07:54 <behdad>	kris: do you stop in amsterdam? :P
 166 Feb 12 22:08:09 <kris>	behdad: to transfer for 10 mins or so, why? ;)
 167 Feb 12 22:08:23 <behdad>	kris: wondering ;)
 168 Feb 12 22:08:23 <bratsche>	mclasen: Do you know when you are planning to make another 2.12 release yet?
 169 Feb 12 22:08:31 <timj>	mclasen: how would customs read out laptop HDs?
 170 Feb 12 22:08:37 <mclasen>	bratsche: writing NEWS right now...
 171 Feb 12 22:08:44 <bratsche>	Uh..
 172 Feb 12 22:08:50 <bratsche>	Do I have time to get a change in?
 173 Feb 12 22:09:04 <bratsche>	Err.. patch
 174 Feb 12 22:09:18 <mclasen>	timj: by forcing you to hand over passwords, etc... between the airplane door and customs, you are pretty much in legal limbo...
 175 Feb 12 22:09:49 <kris>	what are they looking for in laptops then?
 176 Feb 12 22:09:55 <timj>	mclasen: that has happened to you?
 177 Feb 12 22:10:01 <mclasen>	no
 178 Feb 12 22:10:11 <herz1>	kris: ┬╗the terrorist handbook┬ź ;-)
 179 Feb 12 22:10:37 <timj>	herz1: tzzz, now you triggered the echolon word detector...
 180 Feb 12 22:11:21 <behdad>	I had my stack of cd's taken for inspection once.  they had like family photos and home video on them.  the guy just took them to another officer, talked to him for 2 mins and returned them.  no idea what they could do with it but I never carry cd/dvds anymore
 181 Feb 12 22:11:34 <behdad>	will put everything on an ext2 partition on an external drive worst case
 182 Feb 12 22:11:44 <behdad>	(and sure have a dummy fat32 partition on it too)
 183 Feb 12 22:11:56 <kris>	herz1: :P
 184 Feb 12 22:12:07 <kris>	actually the EU is looking into this stupid fingerprinting madness too
 185 Feb 12 22:12:13 <kris>	+starting
 186 Feb 12 22:13:09 <mclasen>	anything else for "misc" ?
 187 Feb 12 22:14:02 <mclasen>	ok then, see you all when ebassi writes another invitation...
 188 Feb 12 22:14:10 *	mclasen goes back to releasing gtk
 189 Feb 12 22:14:11 <kris>	alrighty
 190 Feb 12 22:14:18 <herz1>	have  nice evening
 191 Feb 12 22:14:31 <mclasen>	bratsche: if you have the patch in in the next 2-3 hours, I'll wait
 192 Feb 12 22:14:33 *	kris goes back to this rbtree hacking madness
 193 Feb 12 22:14:44 <bratsche>	mclasen: Yeah, I can do it.
 194 Feb 12 22:15:13 <ebassi>	have a nice evening everyone :-)
 195 Feb 12 22:15:20 <bratsche>	mclasen: It's all committed to trunk, and tml asked me to wait until the next 2.12 release before committing to gtk-2-12 branch.
 196 Feb 12 22:15:44 <mclasen>	oh, so you want to commit _after_ the release ?
 197 Feb 12 22:15:58 <bratsche>	No, I want to commit before.
 198 Feb 12 22:16:06 <mclasen>	go ahead, then
 199 Feb 12 22:16:12 <bratsche>	Okay.
 200 Feb 12 22:16:25 <bratsche>	Let me just get it all together and I'll commit within the next hour.

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  • [get | view] (2008-02-14 13:38:27, 13.2 KB) [[attachment:20080108.txt]]
  • [get | view] (2008-02-14 12:31:10, 14.9 KB) [[attachment:20080212.txt]]
  • [get | view] (2008-05-13 21:08:25, 8.5 KB) [[attachment:20080513.txt]]
  • [get | view] (2008-06-03 22:01:20, 22.1 KB) [[attachment:20080603.txt]]
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