Attachment '04-05-2011-meeting.log'
Download**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 4 13:54:41 2011 May 04 13:54:41 * Now talking on #membership May 04 13:54:41 * Topic for #membership is: GNOME Membership Committee's Home - Wiki: http://live.gnome.org/MembershipCommittee - Queue: http://www.gnome.org/rt3-stats/membership.html - Homepage: http://foundation.gnome.org/membership - Mailing List: http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/membership-committee May 04 13:54:41 * Topic for #membership set by av at Sun Mar 13 18:13:41 2011 May 04 13:55:26 <muelli> hey av :-) May 04 13:55:29 <muelli> brilliant May 04 13:55:40 <av> heya :) May 04 13:56:03 <av> pedro, you around? May 04 13:56:22 <pedro> av, hola, yes, how's going? May 04 13:56:44 <av> pedro, we are having a membership committee meeting in 5 minutes, did you see the mail? :) May 04 13:56:59 <av> let's wait some more minutes for Bruno to appear May 04 13:57:03 <pedro> av, just saw it :-) May 04 13:57:14 <pedro> hello brunobol May 04 13:57:14 <brunobol> Hey! May 04 13:57:14 <av> cool, hope you can stay with us a bit then :) May 04 13:57:17 <muelli> *yay* May 04 13:57:39 <brunobol> Hola, pedro ! May 04 13:57:40 <av> awesome, 4 members out of 5, quorum :) May 04 13:57:43 <av> hey brunobol! May 04 13:58:08 <brunobol> av, muelli Hey, guys! May 04 13:58:46 <av> should we start? :) May 04 13:59:11 <muelli> nah. gimme 5 minutes... gtg somewhere quickly ;-) May 04 13:59:24 <av> sure, ping when back May 04 13:59:41 <brunobol> I'm ready! May 04 14:00:51 <brunobol> pedro, It seems we'll have another GNOME Forum at Lationware (aka CataratasConf) May 04 14:01:10 <pedro> brunobol, cool, when is it ? May 04 14:01:20 <brunobol> pedro, Maybe you can join us... May 04 14:01:47 <pedro> brunobol, i'd try! last time it was *awesome* ;-) May 04 14:02:03 <brunobol> pedro, CataratasConf is always on the end of year (October, I think). May 04 14:02:34 <pedro> brunobol, ah good, i'll save some holidays then :-) May 04 14:02:41 <brunobol> pedro, http://www.latinoware.org/ May 04 14:03:15 <muelli> k. I'm kinda ready May 04 14:03:42 <av> cool, let's start then May 04 14:03:46 <pedro> lets start! May 04 14:04:03 <brunobol> pedro, Try to keep in touch with Izabel and Og Maciel (from the board) May 04 14:04:13 <brunobol> Let's rock! May 04 14:04:18 <pedro> brunobol, will do it! May 04 14:04:35 <av> I would like to first discuss some reports I've been sending over these weeks to Bruno about our current policy / procedures May 04 14:05:21 <av> one of the things I would like to avoid is to review every application we get to see if guidelines are followed by the committee's members May 04 14:06:00 <av> Bruno, specifically what scared me most is the 'reject' ticket you sent without even filing out the fields May 04 14:06:15 <av> that means two things: May 04 14:06:27 <muelli> av: which ticket? May 04 14:06:34 <av> let me grab it, sec May 04 14:07:15 <brunobol> It was a horrible mistake, I know. May 04 14:07:19 <av> muelli, https://rt.gnome.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=11830 May 04 14:07:29 <av> that might mean two things May 04 14:08:14 <av> 1. you don't care about the committee and you just take a ticket and fill it out with the form letter available on the wiki and that's it May 04 14:08:44 <av> 2. you are distracted and you process the queue without taking the needed attention May 04 14:09:13 <av> as said, I simply don't have the time to review every ticket we have on our queue May 04 14:09:32 <av> and at the same time I can't see those mistakes going out May 04 14:09:51 <brunobol> It was because our previous Rejected Form Letter had no field do fill. May 04 14:10:24 <av> *every* application needs to be as personalized as much as we can May 04 14:10:44 <av> every application has it own story behind it and every applicant do have his contributions May 04 14:10:45 <muelli> well. it can also mean that our process is not good enough yet. And well, maybe kind of a web based thingy would do a much better job than having to c&p and searching and replacing the necessary information May 04 14:10:54 <brunobol> brunobol, I used to much the form without fields. May 04 14:11:18 <av> muelli, sure thing, but since this is what we have now, we need to pay attention on how we do things May 04 14:11:36 <pedro> i have a question, was that membership approved? May 04 14:11:41 <av> nope May 04 14:11:48 <pedro> so what's the big deal then? May 04 14:11:59 <av> did you see the ticket? May 04 14:12:02 <pedro> i'd be more worried if that gets approved May 04 14:12:09 <pedro> yes i did May 04 14:12:34 <av> no, the problem here is: an mc member sending out a form letter without even filing out the correct fields May 04 14:12:41 <muelli> av: sure. But I don't see much things being screwed up. So I wouldn't bother too much. But yeah, we do have to pay attention. May 04 14:12:42 <av> we are not doing a P&C work May 04 14:12:56 <pedro> i don't really see the big issue... May 04 14:13:01 * brunobol promises don't do it again. May 04 14:13:09 <av> brunobol, I've been mailing you several times now May 04 14:13:22 <av> since that wasnt the only issue I saw during these weeks May 04 14:13:57 <pedro> muelli, indeed May 04 14:14:02 <muelli> another interesting question I'd have is how we check whether some people we ask for vouchers are indeed foundation members. It doesn't make much sense to ask outsiders. May 04 14:14:18 <av> good point as well May 04 14:14:34 <av> brunobol, is something not yet clear about our new policy? May 04 14:14:37 <av> please say so now May 04 14:15:03 <muelli> av: can you link it here? (for reference) May 04 14:15:17 <av> muelli, yes, sec May 04 14:15:31 <brunobol> av, After your mails everything is ok May 04 14:17:38 <brunobol> av, Though I don't like to keep sending mails for MC-list asking the rest of us to give some feedback about the tickets. May 04 14:18:31 <av> muelli, mmm..thought we had a resume of the new policy on the list May 04 14:18:36 <av> but /me can't find it May 04 14:18:43 <av> maybe on foundation-lis May 04 14:18:48 <muelli> I thought it's in the wiki but I can't find it either May 04 14:19:37 <av> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2011-January/msg00009.html May 04 14:19:52 <av> point 4 May 04 14:20:10 <brunobol> https://rt.gnome.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=11821 May 04 14:20:38 <av> ah yes, that application got approved with one ack only May 04 14:20:54 <brunobol> I had to approve this ticket with one ack. May 04 14:21:52 <av> yes, that's fine, I didnt have the time to look into at it May 04 14:21:52 <brunobol> Since nobody gave some love on it. May 04 14:22:10 <av> pedro, will you have some time to help us a bit? May 04 14:22:32 <av> like 10 mins per day to have a look at what we have in the queue May 04 14:22:45 <brunobol> av, I think we can avoid the two acks if the sponsors highly recommend the approve of applicant. May 04 14:23:15 <av> brunobol, usually sponsoring someone means highly recommending the applicant :) May 04 14:23:19 <pedro> av, yup, since the release i'm having time to help May 04 14:23:37 <brunobol> pedro, If not, I'll kill you! :-) May 04 14:23:49 <av> pedro, great, the procedure is the same as alwais, but two acks are needed from two MC members May 04 14:23:52 <pedro> brunobol, haha i can always hide :-P May 04 14:24:04 <av> pedro, and two sponsors are needed for an application to be accepted May 04 14:24:08 <pedro> av, ack May 04 14:24:20 <av> brunobol, also please ping the sponsors if the don't answer within a week May 04 14:24:21 <pedro> av, yeah i remember that policy May 04 14:24:30 <av> s/the/they May 04 14:24:37 <brunobol> av, ok May 04 14:24:50 <brunobol> pedro, You can run, but you can't hide. May 04 14:24:58 <av> and after the second mail, just ignore and tell the applicant we didnt receive any response / reject the application if no one sent a mail to us May 04 14:25:15 <av> but don't let too much time to pass May 04 14:25:36 <av> ~1 week is usually fine for the second/last ping May 04 14:25:43 <av> muelli, do you agree? May 04 14:25:43 <brunobol> av, Ok, then. May 04 14:26:28 <muelli> yes. Although -as a general remark- a fixed number is weird in combination with a non-fixed sized team. But that nothing really important... May 04 14:27:11 <pedro> that's ok if they don't answer is probably (90% of the times ) because they don't care about the new applicant May 04 14:27:11 <av> muelli, that would mean we need some more help? May 04 14:27:20 <av> pedro, yep May 04 14:27:45 <av> brunobol, anyway please try to personalize the application as much as you can May 04 14:27:55 <muelli> av: No. Just saying that a fixed quorum, as opposed to a dynamic one (i.e. 10%) is generally a bit weird. May 04 14:27:55 <av> please just don't paste© a form letter and send May 04 14:28:26 <brunobol> av, I'll do it. May 04 14:28:33 <av> awesome May 04 14:28:52 <av> I would like to thank muelli for setting up the dudle May 04 14:29:10 <muelli> what you usually want to do is to have a certain level of agreement. But if the team is 1000 members, then 2 out of them is almost nothing. But as I've said: That's just a general, theoretical remark and I wouldn't want to change anything. May 04 14:29:45 <av> muelli, I would say having 3 out of 5 members are good enough to reach the quorum May 04 14:29:54 <brunobol> Sometimes (before you join the team) I was alone doing the work and I had dreams of a team with 7 members. May 04 14:30:20 <muelli> :) May 04 14:30:29 <av> brunobol, if any of us would spend 10 mins per day to clean the queue, there won't be ticket with more than a week of age May 04 14:30:38 <av> s/ticket/tickets May 04 14:30:44 <brunobol> av, certainly May 04 14:30:59 <av> but we are going pretty nice at the moment, so... May 04 14:32:00 <brunobol> we have 335 Foundation members now. May 04 14:32:16 <av> yup May 04 14:32:41 <av> ok, we're done with the first point of our agenda May 04 14:32:54 <av> muelli, should we move talking about elections? May 04 14:33:03 <brunobol> Normally people always have one "rockstar" as contact. May 04 14:33:20 <av> yeah May 04 14:33:21 <muelli> yeah. elections sounds nice. May 04 14:34:29 <muelli> so we do need a timeline first, I presume May 04 14:34:55 <av> exactly, when we need the next board to be ready? May 04 14:35:00 <muelli> unfortunately, I didn't prepare one as I wanted to. But that's not too complicated May 04 14:35:01 <av> first days of june? May 04 14:35:09 <muelli> juli IIRC May 04 14:35:12 <brunobol> muelli, I'd like to thank you to run almost the whole elections when I was alone. Without you it would not happen. May 04 14:35:12 <muelli> july May 04 14:35:43 <av> muelli, then we might use the timelines used in the latest elections May 04 14:35:46 <muelli> or august even May 04 14:35:57 <muelli> yeah av. pretty much. That's certainly possible May 04 14:36:16 <av> http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2010/rules.html May 04 14:36:19 <pedro> do we have any instructions on how to do it? May 04 14:36:19 <av> as a reference May 04 14:36:36 <av> pedro, we plan to make a good wiki page coming out after this elections May 04 14:36:38 <pedro> how to do it = prepare the elections, run the whole thing May 04 14:36:38 <brunobol> The board needs get elected before Guadec. May 04 14:36:45 <pedro> cool May 04 14:36:51 <muelli> yeah, well. Look at mkical.py. It has dates in it. One just need to adapt it. In this case, shift by one day. May 04 14:37:42 <av> muelli, I plan to propose myself for this coming elections so unfortunately I won't be able to help out organizing everything as I expected May 04 14:37:49 <muelli> I searched my archives but I couldn't find the mail that I sent to the board the last times May 04 14:37:55 <muelli> oh, interesting May 04 14:38:42 <av> I can help you with the basic stuff, but I can't work on the voting stuff :) May 04 14:39:07 <muelli> yeah. So we might want to propose a timeline to the board. So we need to figure out the necessary dates May 04 14:40:53 <av> yup, the last day of elections was the 22 of june May 04 14:40:55 <muelli> yeah, quite easy it seems. Just shift everything more or less by one day. May 04 14:41:07 <av> yep May 04 14:41:15 <av> we can go with that schedule from now on May 04 14:41:21 <muelli> we need an announcement, too. For f-a and f-l. May 04 14:42:18 <av> yes, definitely May 04 14:42:31 <av> we can send it out whenver we want actually within the next as wekk May 04 14:42:47 <av> so that everyone can prepare himself and start the renew process May 04 14:42:51 <av> s/wekk/week May 04 14:43:01 <brunobol> muelli, av I can help if I have access to the important things May 04 14:43:28 <av> muelli, is the whole process done on window? May 04 14:44:00 <av> or menubar where the db is stored? May 04 14:44:09 <muelli> av: well. very much is git and email. It also involves a bit SQL and Python on a machine with access to the SQL server, i.e. window. May 04 14:44:49 <av> muelli, please, let's make a *good* wiki page coming out from this elections May 04 14:45:02 <av> with very detailed instructions May 04 14:45:09 <av> i.e to fully reproduce elections if you can't May 04 14:45:48 <brunobol> yes... In 2009 we have no idea of how to do it. May 04 14:46:15 <av> I know, the current wiki page is a mess May 04 14:46:16 <av> :)) May 04 14:46:37 <muelli> yep. That's the goal. So we can start off by requiring foundatoin-web to be cloned May 04 14:47:04 <av> yup, that's the git repo where all the elections stuff is stored May 04 14:47:48 <muelli> hm. is anyone kinda writing this? May 04 14:47:56 <brunobol> muelli, can't we create a branch or tag? May 04 14:48:24 <muelli> brunobol: what do you mean? We probably could. May 04 14:48:53 <av> muelli, I can, but not before one month or more, exams incoming and I have really no time : / May 04 14:49:32 <brunobol> muelli, what do you mean with "requiring foundatoin-web to be cloned"? :-) May 04 14:49:32 <av> you might take some notes while you are at it May 04 14:49:47 <av> and then we can setup a wiki page from your notes :) May 04 14:50:04 <muelli> brunobol: cloning git.gnome.org/foundation-web (or whatever it's URL is). May 04 14:50:05 <av> brunobol, git clone git://...foundation-web May 04 14:50:19 <brunobol> muelli, ahh... May 04 14:50:31 <muelli> k. So are we going through this now, then? we might as well collect the proper URL now and I put it in my list. May 04 14:51:27 <av> sure, let me grab it May 04 14:51:49 <av> muelli, ssh://USERNAME@git.gnome.org/git/foundation-web May 04 14:51:53 <av> git clone ssh://USERNAME@git.gnome.org/git/foundation-web May 04 14:52:04 <av> to commit May 04 14:52:13 <av> for read-only git clone git://git.gnome.org/foundation-web May 04 14:52:33 <muelli> very good. Now, the old directory, i.e. 2010 can be copied over to, say, 2011 May 04 14:53:52 <brunobol> http://git.gnome.org/browse/foundation-web/tree/foundation.gnome.org/elections/2010/mkical.py May 04 14:54:15 <brunobol> It suggesting that we have no much time. May 04 14:54:18 <av> muelli, mv 2010 2011 and git add 2011 May 04 14:54:26 <brunobol> s/It/It's/ May 04 14:54:27 <av> * cp May 04 14:54:53 <av> ** cp -rf 2010 2011 && git add 2011 May 04 14:55:25 <av> then we move to change stuff over the 2011 dir May 04 14:55:36 <muelli> nice. With that, one has to add 2011 to the Makefile.am May 04 14:56:53 <av> muelli, as a reference http://git.gnome.org/browse/foundation-web/tree/foundation.gnome.org/elections/Makefile.am May 04 14:57:02 <av> so that no one miss the file :) May 04 14:57:14 <brunobol> muelli, av, I can update the 2011 files if you want. May 04 14:57:45 <muelli> av: I sent that EtherPad with the instructions, no? Do you have the address? Then we can work in there... May 04 14:57:54 <av> ah yes May 04 14:58:08 <av> let me see if I can find it somewhere May 04 14:58:20 <av> http://ep.mafiasi.de/gnome-elections-howto May 04 14:58:23 <av> here it is May 04 14:58:27 <muelli> brunobol: yeah, one moment. I am fixing up bug 629334 and tampering with the tree... Everything will be in /vote/. In a couple of minutes I'm ready to push my changes May 04 14:58:36 <muelli> ah, brilliant. May 04 14:58:49 <muelli> so I propose to start writing kind of a kind there. May 04 14:58:49 <brunobol> muelli, av, another thing: I'll be in vacations (traveling, I mean) from May 16 to May 22 May 04 14:58:57 <av> brunobol, not a problem :) May 04 14:59:07 <muelli> brunobol: I hope you're enjoying it :) May 04 15:04:58 <muelli> but yeah, one could already quickly fix up all that typos and cruft, i.e. "board gets elected every november" May 04 15:05:29 <muelli> i.e. here: http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2010/ -.- May 04 15:06:07 <av> ^^ May 04 15:06:15 <brunobol> "each year before GUADEC." May 04 15:06:20 <brunobol> sounds good? May 04 15:06:55 <av> yep, May 04 15:07:00 <muelli> hm. well. for now it does have a 12 month period fixed by dates May 04 15:07:18 <av> let's say board gets elected every one year May 04 15:07:23 <muelli> i.e. 01.07 (or 01.08) until 30.06 or whatever it is May 04 15:07:36 <muelli> yeah, that's right for now. May 04 15:07:38 <av> and the current period is from july to end of june May 04 15:08:01 <brunobol> av, ok May 04 15:08:18 <av> "board gets elected every one year" is ok :) May 04 15:08:51 <av> muelli, http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2011 should go live soon? May 04 15:09:04 <brunobol> av, Are you going to put this log on wiki? May 04 15:09:35 <av> brunobol, yup, I usually setup a wiki page for every meeting May 04 15:09:54 <av> brunobol, i.e https://live.gnome.org/MembershipCommittee/Meetings May 04 15:09:57 <muelli> av: I hope. Problem is that something's really slow atm and I am pulling updates from the git repo (which I need in order to push) very slowly. May 04 15:09:59 <av> so, yes May 04 15:10:04 <muelli> Receiving objects: 32% (40/122), 26.40 MiB | 58 KiB/s May 04 15:10:08 <av> aww May 04 15:11:12 <av> brunobol, don't know when May 04 15:11:19 <av> I'll publish that page though :) May 04 15:11:28 <av> if you need the log, i can just mail it to you directly May 04 15:13:10 <av> muelli, brunobol: I'm off, do you need anything else from me? May 04 15:13:37 <av> we've decided pretty much everything, what needs to be done is just preparing the elections and the wiki page May 04 15:13:41 <muelli> av: hm. don't know right now. May 04 15:13:47 <av> but that's not something we gonna cover on the meeting :) May 04 15:13:59 <muelli> we might want to send a mail to board-list tonight asking for a quick approval May 04 15:14:07 <av> agreed May 04 15:14:09 <brunobol> av, No, thanks for all. After muelli's commit I'll give some love to 2011 folder. May 04 15:14:16 <av> awesome May 04 15:14:22 <muelli> and we need an announcement for f-a and f-l somewhere. We might want to type that in the EtherPad to be copied to the Wiki later on May 04 15:14:37 <brunobol> av, muelli we need the timeline May 04 15:15:01 <av> brunobol, the timeline is available at http://foundation.gnome.org/elections/2010/rules.html May 04 15:15:10 <av> look at the bottom of that page May 04 15:15:23 <av> that will be the timeline, it will change by one or two days May 04 15:15:25 <av> but that's it May 04 15:15:48 <brunobol> av, with the same dates? May 04 15:15:49 <muelli> yeah, we'll align the days by sundays again. Hence we'll have a shift by one day May 04 15:16:00 <muelli> all days are one day earlier now May 04 15:16:04 <brunobol> muelli, ok, then May 04 15:16:21 <brunobol> av, muelli Are we done? May 04 15:16:40 <av> yes, I'll deal with muelli about the announcements mails May 04 15:16:46 <muelli> :-) May 04 15:17:05 <muelli> hmpf. git is stupid... May 04 15:17:12 <av> muelli, I can try to have something done for saturday/sunday morning May 04 15:17:14 <av> is that too late? May 04 15:17:32 <av> or if you want to take care of the announcements mails, feel free to :) May 04 15:17:35 <muelli> hm. probably. But no worries. Everything will kinda work. May 04 15:18:28 <av> muelli, feel free to mail me if it's getting too late for those May 04 15:18:44 <muelli> k May 04 15:18:47 <brunobol> Next year we can start earlier. May 04 15:18:59 <av> and I'll try to find an hour to deal with them May 04 15:19:01 <muelli> maybe we even prepare for next year :o0 May 04 15:19:08 <av> :D May 04 15:19:18 <muelli> like right now prepare two instead of one election :o) May 04 15:20:07 <brunobol> muelli, av, yes... let's prepare everything till 2050! May 04 15:20:14 <brunobol> muelli, av See'ya! May 04 15:20:21 <brunobol> pedro, Hasta la vista! May 04 15:20:25 <av> lol May 04 15:20:35 <av> brunobol, take care! cheers and have fun! May 04 15:20:36 <pedro> brunobol, see you soon my friend! May 04 15:20:46 <brunobol> av, Thanks! May 04 15:20:59 <av> muelli, see you soon and feel free to mail me if you need anything :) May 04 15:21:02 <brunobol> muelli, Again, thank you for all the work on elections. May 04 15:21:11 <av> cya all! May 04 15:21:20 <av> Meeting over May 04 15:21:25 <brunobol> muelli, av I'm ready for e-mails too! May 04 15:21:25 <muelli> :) May 04 15:21:49 <muelli> k. I'm ready to push.. finally. May 04 15:21:52 <av> brunobol, I hope you won't receive any mail from me in the future cause that will mean you did something bad! May 04 15:21:54 <av> ehehe May 04 15:22:16 * brunobol bad!!!! May 04 15:22:24 <brunobol> heheh May 04 15:22:28 <av> :) May 04 15:22:37 <av> cya all! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 4 15:22:44 2011
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