22:34 < brunobol> Hello!
22:34 < brunobol> Just in time!
22:34 < av> hey Bruno!!
22:35 < pedro> hola brunobol!
22:35 < brunobol> pedro, hola, my friend!
22:35  * pedro hugs brunobol
22:35 < pedro> so are we just missing tobias?
22:35 < av> exactly
22:36 < av> we are 4 members around now, which is enough for the quorum anyway
22:36 < brunobol> yeah.
22:36 < av> Susana: still around?
22:36 < Susana> yap
22:36 < av> as a note, my irssi will log the meeting and I'll post the logs on our wiki pages
22:36 < Susana> hi brunobol 
22:37 < av> the agenda at: http://live.gnome.org/MembershipCommittee/Agenda
22:37 < brunobol> Olá! Susana!
22:39 < av> brunobol: as the current chairman feel free to start the meeting anytime, the items are into the wiki page (if someone wanna add more items, just do it! :) 
22:39 < pedro> just wondering, is Lionel Dricot (ploum) still active?
22:39 < brunobol> First, I'd like to thank you, Andrea. Thanks to get into the team, start to organize things and propose the meeting.
22:39 < pedro> haven't seen him for a while
22:40 < av> brunobol: no problem really, I'm glad to help out and see things going great :)
22:40 < av> pedro: no, he is not active anymore
22:40 < av> together with Izabel
22:40 < av> I didnt see any post / member processed from him since ages
22:40 < brunobol> They offered help, but never get their accounts.
22:41 < av> brunobol: they never cared to ask for one :)
22:41 < av> the account was up and running since ages
22:41 < av> I checked some weeks ago
22:41 < av> but anyway I think 5 members are enough to have everything working properly
22:42 < brunobol> Anyway... it was a little lack of interest from them.
22:42 < pedro> oh well that was a big issue, for me was a pain to get the access, but they give up on that 
22:42 < pedro> will update the wiki page then, because  7 members are listed there
22:42 < av> brunobol: exactly, they had no interest
22:42 < av> pedro: yes, thanks
22:42 < av> one of the items was about the active / inactive members
22:42 < av> we currently have pedro, bruno, susana, muelli and me active
22:43 < pedro> updated
22:43 < brunobol> It's good to have a member of Accounts team aboard.
22:43 < av> thanks
22:43 < pedro> Susana: you are all set with the accounts ?
22:43 < av> brunobol: ehehe :)
22:43 < av> I fixed susana's account the other day
22:43 < av> and she is ready to go now
22:43 < pedro> awesome so we're all good?
22:43 < Susana> yes
22:43 < brunobol> So... we are a real team now.
22:43 < av> yep :)
22:43  * pedro hugs you all
22:44 < brunobol> Let's start to discuss the agenda?
22:44 < pedro> sure!
22:44 < av> sure 
22:44 < brunobol> The first item is: checking up membership guidelines 
22:45 < av> yep, do you guys think our current policy is still fine or do we need to adjust something?
22:45 < brunobol> I always found the process to become a member a little disorganized.
22:46 < brunobol> Many times people don't give us any contact of them.
22:46 < brunobol> I think that point out one or two contacts need to be mandatory.
22:47 < brunobol> It's really hard decide anything without other's opinion.
22:47 < av> yes, +1 for me. Would be nice if we could set up a 2-3 contacts limit before accepting someone
22:48 < pedro> yup, so far it doesn't require anything it just says :"Beware that applications without contacts take relatively longer to process."
22:48 < pedro> as per http://foundation.gnome.org/membership/application.php
22:48 < av> we should start checking a member also for his work and then for his contacts
22:49 < av> so would become something like 1. you check his work around grabbing some infos from bugzilla etc 2. you see what contacts say about him / her
22:49 < pedro> but yeah for me at least being part of the gnome foundation also imply to be known be the community or at least by more than 1 person 
22:49 < pedro> s/be/by
22:49 < av> yes, do you think 2-3 members would be enough?
22:50 < av> e.g as the minimum number 
22:50 < brunobol> pedro, I agree.
22:50 < brunobol> At least 2, I think
22:50 < pedro> 2 might be ok
22:51 < pedro> oh well anything is better than 0, really
22:51 < av> 3 would be the best, but not everyone can have more than 2 advocates
22:51 < av> so 2 should be fine
22:51 < brunobol> Form letters must be more clear... "Request information from contacts" sometimes returns with "Bob is doing things on X company that is GNOME related".
22:52 < pedro> oh yes, i've seen some emails asking for more info with things like
22:53 < pedro> "but do you think his work is enough to be part of the gnome foundation", etc
22:53 < brunobol> We need to get from contacts a reply on this way: "Bob deserves be a Foundation member"
22:53 < pedro> most of people just say "yeah he's doing blah hacking"
22:53 < pedro> so agreed with that brunobol
22:53 < av> pedro: yep, asked that one time cause the contact didnt say anything apart "X works for the Y company, which contributes indirectly to GNOME"
22:54 < brunobol> In fact, we have to reformulate all the form letters.
22:54 < av> yep
22:54 < pedro> av: if we get that information from the beginning that'd make our work easier 
22:54 < pedro> same for description of your contributions and resume of the person
22:55 < av> pedro: yep
22:55 < pedro> i've seen some, "i hack on blah" and that's it
22:55 < brunobol> pedro, yep!
22:55 < pedro> is like getting words from a little kid
22:55 < brunobol> pedro, ahahaha
22:56 < av> we should set up a form letter that asks for a small resume of the applicant, then we should ask if the advocate really thinks that the applicant deserves the foundation membership
22:56 < pedro> i'm not saying that i want a resume of 500 words of what the candidate is doing but a least more than 30 words
22:56 < pedro> av and update the requested info at the application page to ask for that resume too
22:57 < av> exactly
22:57 < av> pedro: a great example is: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/membership-committee/2010-March/msg00015.html
22:57 < av> in fact, he said nothing
22:57 < pedro> http://foundation.gnome.org/membership/application.php 
22:57 < pedro> haha yeah
22:58 < pedro> so what work, for how many time, what's he doing right now, etc
22:58 < av> exactly
22:58 < brunobol> Another thing: we have so many fields on http://foundation.gnome.org/membership/application.php 
22:58 < pedro> i'm not saying that the process should be harder for the candidates, more info is always welcome, specially if we need to send that information to the foundation list
22:59 < pedro> that page is pretty confused to me, too many text on that
23:00 < av> yep, we need to make it more readable
23:00 < pedro> maybe we can talk with the website/art team to help us to redesign that?
23:00 < av> yeah, I just hope it won't take months
23:00 < av> we have access to that page
23:00 < brunobol> I think we need just name, mail, nickname, git and bugzilla username (if there is), contacts and another filed to descriptions (only one)
23:00 < av> so we can modify it whenever we wants
23:01 < av> yep
23:01 < brunobol> It's really horrible!
23:02 < av> also the other comments thing is useless
23:02 < pedro> yeah terrible...
23:02 < av> someone wrote " I love ice cream " today
23:02 < av> -.-
23:02 < pedro> does anybody got any comments there?
23:02 < pedro> i haven't 
23:02 < brunobol> pedro, Na....
23:02 < Susana> +1
23:03 < av> to resume:
23:03 < av> 1. check and modify form letters
23:03 < Susana> i just don't know if we can change the contacts to be mandatory or not
23:03 < av> 2. modify the applicant.php page to make it more readable and friendly
23:03 < brunobol> Susana, I think we should do it
23:03 < Susana> can we decide that or should we propose that to the foundation/board
23:03 < av> 3. require 2 min advocates for an application
23:04 < Susana> ?
23:04 < pedro> let's ask to the board about it
23:04 < pedro> our recommendation is to have that as mandatory
23:04 < Susana> what i mean is are we allowed to make such a change?
23:04 < pedro> let's see what they think about that
23:04 < av> yes, let's mail them and see what they think
23:04 < av> if they agree, we gonna set up the change
23:05 < pedro> yup yup
23:05 < brunobol> So... lets get another point: ZERO: check with the board if MC have autonomy to change these things.
23:05 < Susana> yep, i think that's better because there might be a reason for that to be the way it is
23:05 < pedro> brunobol: good idea
23:06 < av> Susana: the reason is that in the beginning everything was organised this way
23:06 < av> so there isnt a specific reason I think
23:07 < av> but the board will let us know :)
23:07 < av> who gonna mail them?
23:07 < pedro> the good brunobol? ;-)
23:07 < brunobol> Yeah.
23:07 < brunobol> I can do that.
23:07 < pedro> super!
23:07 < av> perfect
23:08 < brunobol> I'll write the letter and show it to you first.
23:08 < brunobol> On MC-list
23:08 < av> perfect
23:08 < av> points are to resume:
23:08 < av> ZERO: check with the board if MC have autonomy to change these things.
23:08 < brunobol> If there is something to change, you can tell me.
23:08 < av> 1. check and modify form letters
23:08 < av> 2. modify the applicant.php page to make it more readable and friendly
23:09 < pedro> and hopefully all the foundation.gnome that looks awful
23:09 < av> this 3 things to be done as soon as we know what the board thinks
23:09 < pedro> compared to the design on www.gnome.org
23:09 < av> yep
23:09 < pedro> soo out of date
23:09 < pedro> cool, anything else on that agenda item?
23:09 < av> should we set up a CMS istance?
23:10 < av> or html + php?
23:10 < brunobol> av, I really don't know anything about this.
23:10 < brunobol> I think the entire code of the website is on git.
23:10 < av> yep
23:10 < pedro> not sure yet, let's see what the website/art team says to us
23:10 < av> yeah, we need their opinion first
23:11 < av> gonna mail them tomorrow 
23:11 < pedro> they're doing amazing things, and we don't need a lot to be honest
23:12 < brunobol> I think it covers the third and the last items of our agenda.
23:12 < av> exactly, about the last item we need to had something on the accepted membership mail on Mango
23:13 < brunobol> 1, 3 and 6 are related.
23:13 < av> like, "it's nice if you could send an introduction to the foundation-list mailing list to introduce yourself and your work to the other Foundation members and GNOME contributors"
23:13 < pedro> about that, are we going to send the introduction our let the members theirself to do that or both?
23:13 < brunobol> Actually, Mango have a copy from Form Letters.
23:13 < av> I think members themselves should introduce them
23:13 < brunobol> av, agreed.
23:14 < av> on the list
23:14 < av> so I gonna commit the fix to the Mango branch
23:14 < av> adding something like above
23:14 < pedro> yup, and we just need to send a list of people with a small resume, right?
23:14 < av> yep
23:14 < pedro> ok roger that
23:15 < av> I think we should just mail the list announcing the new members
23:15 < av> and we CC them on the mail asking for the resume asked on the accepted mail
23:15 < pedro> ok this is one of the things it's confusing me
23:15 < pedro> do we need to do that : weekly, monthly ?
23:16 < brunobol> I think monthly is good.
23:16 < av> when we gonna reach 10 members listed here: http://live.gnome.org/MembershipCommittee/ApprovedMembers
23:16 < pedro> designate someone from the team to do that and rotate monthly?
23:16 < av> brunobol: there is a page with approved members now
23:16 < brunobol> or when we reach 10 members.
23:16 < av> so that we don't have to search the archives everytime for accepted / rejected members
23:16 < brunobol> av, I saw it. Thanks to set up it!
23:16 < av> :)
23:17 < av> when we reach 10 members we send out the announcement
23:17 < pedro> if any of both rules are meet ? ;-)
23:17 < brunobol> When MC was just me I used to keep a file "new-members.txt" on my desktop!
23:17 < av> ehehe
23:17 < pedro> we cannot have 5 members on the queue for 2 months for example
23:17 < av> right
23:18 < av> so every month we send out a resume from the MC
23:18 < pedro> or if we reach 10 approved members ;-)
23:18 < av> exactly :)
23:18 < brunobol> Good
23:18 < pedro> <3
23:18 < av> every month or 10 approved members, that's it
23:18 < av> but please don't use the form letter for that
23:18 < brunobol> That's good for me
23:19 < av> someone complained about it being the same everytime
23:19 < av> so just write 3-4 lines and then the list of the new members
23:19 < av> and then let them introduce themselves later on
23:19 < brunobol> av, Yeah... It's boring!
23:19 < av> ok, so to resume:
23:20 < av> 1. I'll commit the fix to the accepted mail in the Mango git branch
23:20 < av> 2. when we reach 10 members or montly we send out a resume of the MC together with new members 
23:20 < av> 3. we wait new member's introduction as requested in the updated Mango mail at point 1.
23:21 < av> 4. everyone's happy
23:21 < av> :)
23:21 < brunobol> Cool!
23:21 < av> something like: 
23:21 < brunobol> Just a question: Who's going to GUADEC this year?
23:21 < av> 23:13 < av> like, "it's nice if you could send an introduction to the foundation-list mailing list to introduce yourself and your work to the other  Foundation members and GNOME contributors"
23:22 < av> not me : /
23:22 < av> busy with exams etc 
23:22 < pedro> I'm going 
23:22 < pedro> brunobol: are you?
23:23 < brunobol> I'm not!
23:23 < pedro> again? :O
23:23 < brunobol> Unfortunately!
23:23 < brunobol> I hate my job!
23:23 < brunobol> Some day I will work with GNOME.
23:23 < pedro> :-(
23:24 < pedro> and then you can kick your boss in the nuts ;-)
23:24 < av> lol
23:25 < brunobol> We have the things right on points 1, 3 and 6.
23:25 < brunobol> Let's move on...
23:25 < brunobol> check for active / inactive members and find one more new member (if needed) 
23:25 < pedro> that's done
23:25 < pedro> i've updated the page to reflect that
23:25 < av> yep, done already
23:25 < brunobol> And I'll kick strongly!
23:25 < av> pedro fixed the wiki page
23:26 < av> so we are 5 active guys now :)
23:26 < av> up and running
23:26 < pedro> what about the elections?
23:27 < pedro> http://live.gnome.org/MembershipCommittee/ElectionsHowTo <- that is just scary
23:27 < pedro> oh one of the things i've heard at last guadec 
23:27 < pedro> was that some members were not receiving the renewal notice 
23:28 < pedro> we might want to have a look at the script or ping the folks at the admin team to have a look 
23:28 < brunobol> I don't know anything about elections. Baris run one election and Tobias the other...
23:28 < av> renewal notice is usually sent every 2 years
23:28 < pedro> damn. I'll be back in 10 mins. afk
23:29 < av> and me too, I don't know to set up the elections since I never did that :)
23:29 < av> Susana: did you set up the elections in the past?
23:29 < brunobol> It's not very difficult, but the Wiki how to is something horrible.
23:29 < av> I heard muelli saying me you helped him to set them up
23:30 < Susana> av: i helped to set up the process, but muelli did all the work inthe elections system/backend
23:30 < brunobol> I think we need another meeting with Tobias to decide about this.
23:31 < brunobol> Once we have access to the foundation's database, everything is easy
23:32 < av> brunobol: we have access to it
23:32 < Susana> he reused the system that maemo used
23:33 < av> also the links are broken on that page
23:33 < av> but we need muelli
23:33 < brunobol> av, good... Muelli has the system working and he knows the process.
23:34 < av> yep, we need him then :)
23:34 < brunobol> We need a meet with him to write docs about the process and update ElectionsHowTo
23:35 < av> yep
23:35 < av> when there will be the next elections?
23:35 < brunobol> The new board must be presented on GUADEC
23:36 < brunobol> The timeline needs to end in June
23:36 < av> yep
23:37 < brunobol> Let's skip it and leave to another meeting?
23:38 < brunobol> May we don't really need a meet... just exchange mail...
23:38 < av> yeah
23:38 < av> just write a mail on the list
23:38 < av> and CC muelli
23:38 < av> he will explain everything
23:39 < Susana> sounds good
23:39 < brunobol> I think things will be easier now... we have an Accounts team member!
23:40 < av> yeah, at least we won't have any issue with access to databases etc
23:40 < Susana> great
23:40 < brunobol> pedro, your 10 minutes passed.
23:41 < brunobol> So... we have one more... 
23:41 < brunobol> elect a new chairman
23:42 < Susana> av: there's more info on the system in this thread - http://mail.gnome.org/archives/membership-committee/2009-May/msg00040.html
23:42 < av> Susana: thanks for the link
23:43 < av> brunobol: yup, let's wait pedro
23:43 < av> for the last item
23:44 < pedro> present!
23:50 < brunobol> It was a pleasure to me hold this position along these two years.
23:51 < brunobol> I'm on MC since Oct/2007 and at chair since Mar/2008
23:52 < brunobol> Besides my lack of time (now I'm a dad), It's time to change...
23:53 < pedro> but you're not planning to leave the team right?
23:53 < brunobol> Doesn't good have the Committee all with the same person.
23:53 < brunobol> pedro, No
23:54 < pedro> nice to hear that, otherwise we can always kidnap you
23:54 < av> lol
23:54 < pedro> brunobol: do you suggest anyone from our team or want to ask widely for a volunteer ?
23:54 < pedro> widely in our team i mean :-P
23:56 < av> pedro: I think that the old chairman should suggest anyone from our team
23:56 < pedro> cool 
23:58 < brunobol> I really don't want to suggest someone.
23:58 < brunobol> Is there someone who wants it?
23:58 < pedro> if you ask me i'd say muelli if he have the time to do it
23:59 < pedro> I'd love to but i've to many things on my plate at the time
00:00 < brunobol> I'd suggest Muelli, but he isn't here and I think he is some kind of away from MC
00:00 < pedro> IIRC he was on Brazil last time i hear from him
00:02 < pedro> let ask muelli then if he can't make well we ask for a volunteer or something else
00:02 < pedro> your call brunobol
00:02 < brunobol> av, I think you deserve the position, since things are more organized.
00:03 < av> would be great, I tried to give the best both here and on the accounts team to have things running well again ;)
00:03 < pedro> true true ;-)
00:04 < brunobol> av, So, do you accept it?
00:04 < av> yes, I think we can make the MC rocking again soon :)
00:04 < pedro> \o/
00:04 < brunobol> av, Congratulations, then!
00:04 < Susana> great!
00:05 < pedro> rock on av!
00:05 < brunobol> If is there no objections, of course, pedro, Susana?
00:05 < av> thanks for trusting me :)
00:05 < brunobol> s/is there/ ther is/;
00:05 < av> I won't disappoint you guys :)
00:05 < brunobol> :-)
00:05 < Susana> brunobol: i think av has been doing great work :)
00:06 < brunobol> So... We have a new chairman!
00:06 < av> woohoo! :)
00:06 < brunobol> And now we have a real Committee!
00:09 < av> want me to send a small resume of the meeting to foundation-list or not?
00:09 < av> the logs will be posted to our wiki page
00:10 < brunobol> av, Good idea.
00:10 < brunobol> As the new chairman, you're gonna close the meeting!
00:10 < av> ok, will write a mail tomorrow or the day after with the resume + logs
00:11 < av> Meeting Finished, thanks to everyone :)