(04:02:15 PM) emily: hello everyone
(04:02:44 PM) emily: we are going to have today's IRC meeting to discuss about all the bids for GUADEC 2012 
(04:03:16 PM) emily: Let's waite for 5 mins, then we start.
(04:08:34 PM) emily: Let's start our meeting now 
(04:08:43 PM) emily: hi all 
(04:09:23 PM) emily: Today we have only one agenda:     Review current bids for GUADEC 2012 
(04:09:56 PM) matte_PLUG [~matte_PLU@matteonunziati.pin.unifi.it] entered the room.
(04:10:30 PM) pmkovar: hi, i'm attending this meeting today on behalf of Jiri Eischmann who is on vacation
(04:10:32 PM) emily: Current, all the bids we received are list here: https://live.gnome.org/GUADEC/2012/Bids
(04:10:42 PM) emily: hello pmkovar>
(04:11:12 PM) emily: hello matte_PLUG 
(04:11:22 PM) matte_PLUG: hello emily
(04:11:44 PM) matte_PLUG: the PLUG bid is not a bid, Uniform Requirements for Manuscripts Submitted to Biomedical Journal
(04:11:47 PM) matte_PLUG: ops...
(04:11:50 PM) matte_PLUG: sorry
(04:11:53 PM) matte_PLUG: I mean
(04:12:04 PM) matte_PLUG: the PLUG bid is not a bid, actually
(04:12:46 PM) matte_PLUG: we have missed the (extended) deadline due to many reasons
(04:12:59 PM) emily: <matte_PLUG>: Oh, OK. Thanks for let me know 
(04:13:23 PM) matte_PLUG: I'm here just to understand what will be now with the real bids
(04:13:26 PM) emily: <matte_PLUG>: I was able to ask you since you show your interesters before
(04:14:03 PM) matte_PLUG: some delays with our public bodies and the overcommitment of many guys with other activities...
(04:14:09 PM) emily: <matte_PLUG>: I will update the wiki to remove your proposal. Hopefully we will see your bid next year 
(04:14:22 PM) matte_PLUG: yeah!
(04:14:26 PM) emily: <matte_PLUG>: No worry, thanks for the update 
(04:14:31 PM) teuf: hey, I'm on confcall but it should be over soon
(04:14:41 PM) teuf: though my name's on the Lyon bid so I probably won't say much ;)
(04:14:41 PM) emily: hi teuf
(04:15:17 PM) emily: BTW, Brian just send me an email to say he has some problem with IRC. 
(04:15:31 PM) emily: I will ask him to log on web-IRC. 
(04:18:24 PM) matte_PLUG: emily: just one thing
(04:18:36 PM) matte_PLUG: I've not received the original invitation of the foundation
(04:18:47 PM) matte_PLUG: because of a typo in my e-mail address
(04:19:10 PM) matte_PLUG: I've discovered your interest in prato thanx to a Red Hat guy born here (in prato)
(04:19:46 PM) emily: <matte_PLUG>: what's your email? 
(04:19:48 PM) matte_PLUG: if you would like to send any future (and welcome) communication please fix the address
(04:19:58 PM) matte_PLUG: eng.matteo.nunziati@gmail.com
(04:20:25 PM) matte_PLUG: there where a lot of spaces instead of dots in the mail logged on the list archives :-)
(04:20:43 PM) emily: <matte_PLUG>: Sure. I will update your contact email 
(04:21:57 PM) emily: So far, we have three bids. 
(04:23:06 PM) emily: There will be a bid review team to review all the bids and give feedback to each bid
(04:23:56 PM) yippi [~bc99092@99.69.124.239] entered the room.
(04:24:04 PM) test [dddf5f7c@ircip4.mibbit.com] entered the room.
(04:24:20 PM) yippi: hi, sorry I am late.  Had troubles connecting to IRC from our internal network.
(04:24:24 PM) emily: hi yippi
(04:24:35 PM) emily: It is not late now 
(04:25:06 PM) emily: We only have one agenda today 
(04:25:14 PM) emily: Review all the bids we got so far 
(04:25:22 PM) test left the room (quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
(04:25:32 PM) yippi: is there a link to all the bids received?
(04:25:44 PM) emily: https://live.gnome.org/GUADEC/2012/Bids
(04:26:04 PM) emily: Totally three bids 
(04:27:11 PM) yippi: that's exciting.  are the people who submitted the bids here? 
(04:27:48 PM) emily: dneary, pmkovar are here 
(04:28:30 PM) emily: Dave - Lyon; pmkovar- Brno 
(04:29:25 PM) yippi: have they said anything about their bids?
(04:29:34 PM) toscalix left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(04:29:42 PM) emily: I think we should have Board to join the bid review team. yippi 
(04:30:06 PM) emily: not yet, they can ask and discuss now 
(04:30:50 PM) yippi: the board will obviously make the final decision, but I guess I'd think that it is our job to provide the board with recommendations.
(04:31:10 PM) yippi: what we think are the main differences in the bids to consider, for example.
(04:32:14 PM) emily: <yippi>: I can write a google doc, to list all the factors, then give score to each bid. 
(04:32:34 PM) yippi: that sounds helpful
(04:33:05 PM) emily: <yippi>: Facts like: Venue, local community, organization team, fasility, transportantaion, visa etc
(04:33:13 PM) yippi: how do the bids compare in price?
(04:33:36 PM) yippi: A Coruna seems to be about 93,260 euros
(04:33:47 PM) fnadge: or number of previous conferences held in each country
(04:34:24 PM) emily: <fnadge>: what kind of conference? FOSS conference or GNOME conference? 
(04:34:40 PM) yippi: i think he meant GUADEC
(04:34:50 PM) fnadge: Yep, I did
(04:34:52 PM) yippi: though i am not sure that metric is so useful
(04:35:01 PM) yippi: since it only will single out Spain
(04:35:11 PM) yippi: the only country where there has been more than one GUADEC
(04:35:53 PM) yippi: i mean, this is obviously a factor we want to consider, but I think it is a bit more complicated
(04:36:30 PM) yippi: well, france has had one before and the Czech Republic 0
(04:37:26 PM) yippi: i really like how the Brno bid breaks down the expenses with different options
(04:37:28 PM) pmkovar: the whole central and eastern europena 
(04:37:45 PM) pmkovar: *european region had 0, actually
(04:38:18 PM) fnadge: Right. I liked all bids but I think it might be worth considering that Gnome has so far neglected Central Europe where much of the community work happens
(04:38:28 PM) yippi: also, I think the Brno bid had been nicely improved in the update
(04:38:38 PM) teuf: yippi: comparing the bid prices has to be done carefully, a coruna provisions 25K for travel sponsorship, lyon 40k and brno 0
(04:38:51 PM) pmkovar: thanks, yippi
(04:38:53 PM) yippi: Istanbul is probably the only GUADEC in that region, yes
(04:38:54 PM) teuf: ie the budgets will need to be adjusted depending on the actual needs
(04:39:15 PM) yippi: yes, it is complicated since each group submitting bids uses their own formulas
(04:39:22 PM) emily: agree with teuf 
(04:39:50 PM) yippi: but we do need to get our heads around how the bids compare in terms of cost
(04:39:53 PM) teuf: one thing that worries me about brno is how to get there, I've heard bad things about this, but reading the bid, it seems ok
(04:40:37 PM) emily: <teuf>: the transportation ? 
(04:40:47 PM) yippi: 2 hours by car from prague and vienna doesn't sound too complicated
(04:41:14 PM) pmkovar: yes, as written in the bid, brno is pretty close to prague and vienna
(04:41:42 PM) pmkovar: which are two major european transportation hubs
(04:42:15 PM) fnadge: Braislava is also very close
(04:42:38 PM) fnadge: oops, Bratislava
(04:43:21 PM) yippi: i think it is great that we have received such great bids.  The GNOME Foundation really appreciates all the time and effort that went into putting these together.
(04:43:35 PM) dneary: hi - on channel, but not really here, sorry
(04:43:44 PM) yippi: hi dneary
(04:44:16 PM) yippi: our meeting has 15 more minutes, and I'm not sure what our next step is.
(04:44:17 PM) dneary: And, as a member of the GUADEC committee, I propose we pick Lyon
(04:44:42 PM) dneary: (just kidding, of course I'll take no part in bid discussions until asked)
(04:44:47 PM) yippi: :)
(04:44:55 PM) emily: our next step is figure out who will be in our bid review team
(04:45:15 PM) dneary: I didn't want to send the bid with a big pdf to a public list, so I just sent it to the board - Emily replied (thanks emily)
(04:45:19 PM) emily: Those people who will give score to all the bids 
(04:45:31 PM) yippi: at this point, I think we need to get our heads around how the bids compare to each other, so we can provide the board with something more reasonable to review
(04:45:58 PM) yippi: obviously there are pros and cons to each bid, so listing them out might be a start
(04:46:12 PM) emily: People who sumbit the bid will be abstain, of course :) 
(04:46:14 PM) dneary: emily, I would suggest inviting people who have been involved in organising GUADEC in the past few years, past board members who were in close contact with GUADEC, and members of the GUADEC committee
(04:46:36 PM) dneary: Stormy, for example, can give lots of valuable feedback about what Sponsors say
(04:46:43 PM) dneary: And then choose Lyon.
(04:46:46 PM) dneary: ;)
(04:47:37 PM) dneary: I'm now debating when to stop talking
(04:47:55 PM) dneary: but reading the previous discussion, let me point out 2 or 3 things:
(04:48:20 PM) emily: So current, we have yippi, emily teuf in the bid review team. 
(04:48:32 PM) dneary: Sponsors typically like places which are very central, because the total travel bill if you're sending 20 engineers is much lower
(04:48:35 PM) emily: who else here want to join the bid review team ? 
(04:48:49 PM) dneary: That may be something to bear in mind for Brno & A Coruna
(04:49:07 PM) teuf: emily: as I said, my name's on the Lyon's bid, so I don't think it makes sense for me to be in the review team
(04:49:28 PM) dneary: And having an experienced organising team makes a huge difference - which, I think, is a big + for Brno and Lyon
(04:49:49 PM) teuf: dneary: Brno might be a bit special wrt your sponsoring remark since RH has a big devel center over there
(04:49:53 PM) dneary: The travel funding I included was travel for attendees, just to be clear
(04:49:57 PM) emily: <dneary>: I have upload your bid to wiki page: http://live.gnome.org/GUADEC/2012/Bids
(04:50:00 PM) dneary: That's been our budget for the past few years
(04:50:18 PM) fnadge: And is actually much more central than Lyon
(04:50:25 PM) dneary: Yes, the fact that Red Hat is behind the Brno bid is a big deal
(04:50:26 PM) pmkovar: dneary: brno is in the heart of europe ;-)
(04:50:52 PM) dneary: pmkovar, You start at the Urals, I start at the Danube
(04:50:53 PM) teuf: fnadge: wrt to flying there, I'm not sure which one is more central in Lyon VS Brno
(04:51:20 PM) dneary: Median travel distance for GNOME contributors would be the metric I'd use
(04:51:26 PM) pmkovar: dneary: i'd rather say that czech community members are behind the bid. some of them work for red hat, yes
(04:51:32 PM) yippi: one concern i have about Red Hat organizing Brno is that Red Hat also typically organizes the Boston Summit, which doesn't seem to be getting any attention this year
(04:51:35 PM) emily: <teuf>: sorry, thanks for reminder 
(04:51:43 PM) dneary: That, or how well served is the local airport by major airlines & travel hubs?
(04:52:01 PM) dneary: yippi, I don't think that's a concern
(04:52:18 PM) dneary: yippi, Where it might be a concern is for RH board members taking part in the decision making process
(04:52:39 PM) pmkovar: we have contributors from all over europe, so it makes sense to not exclude easter european countries
(04:52:41 PM) dneary: teuf, I'm pretty sure Lyon is better served by airlines
(04:52:59 PM) yippi: i'm just saying, if the folks from Red Hat could be a bit more clear about their plans, there would be less questions.
(04:53:08 PM) fnadge: Yes you do have a nice airport
(04:53:18 PM) teuf: yippi: plans about Boston Summit or Guadec in Bron?
(04:53:20 PM) teuf: brno
(04:53:25 PM) dneary: teuf, Frequent flights from Frankfurt, Munich, Amsterdam, Paris, London, Ladrid & Milan covers pretty much everyone
(04:53:43 PM) dneary: fnadge, Thank you :)
(04:53:47 PM) yippi: it would be nice if Red Hat could be a bit more clear about their plans about helping to make upcoming events hapepn.
(04:53:52 PM) dneary: fnadge, You have nice Budweiser
(04:55:47 PM) yippi: if we pick Brno, this does mean that they will be playing an important role in making every major GNOME event happen in the next year after the Desktop Summit.
(04:56:24 PM) yippi: so, it would be good to get some perspective about that from Red Hat.  
(04:57:03 PM) fnadge: Right, we here in Brno do not really organize the Boston conference but I am certain that Red Hat will support us as much as possible
(04:59:10 PM) teuf: yippi: the Boston summit is an event organized by a volunteer (who happens to work at Red Hat), it's not really a Red Hat sponsored/organized event
(04:59:38 PM) fnadge: The same applies for the Brno bid
(05:00:24 PM) fnadge: I don't really understand how this got mixed together
(05:00:28 PM) dneary: Looking at the Coruna bid, they've done a lot of advance work on accommodation & venue
(05:00:56 PM) teuf: dneary: the same can be said for brno
(05:01:14 PM) dneary: We've done work on the venue, but not accommodation yet
(05:01:24 PM) dneary: But July in Lyon is quiet
(05:01:41 PM) dneary: We have university appartments & cheap hotels available
(05:02:49 PM) dneary: And they put more work than us into presenting their team & their experience than we did
(05:02:53 PM) dneary: :(
(05:03:07 PM) dneary: But we have a great team & I'm sure the selection committee will see that
(05:03:25 PM) yippi: teuf, the fact that the Boston Summit is currently disorganized is not really a -1 for Brno
(05:04:00 PM) yippi: however, if Red Hat seemed more on top of organizing events in general, it would probably be a +1.  So, I guess if there is a takeaway, it might be worth prodding Red Hat co-workers in Boston to get more active.
(05:04:38 PM) yippi: emily, it seems that the only two people on the GUADEC 2012 bid review committee is you and me
(05:04:44 PM) fnadge: Okay, once again, our team has nothing to do with the Boston Conference, 
(05:04:50 PM) yippi: since we are both board members, this sort of defeats the purpose of having a committee.
(05:04:50 PM) matte_PLUG: honestly I don't think that red hat brno is the same that red hat any-where-else
(05:04:58 PM) matte_PLUG: same BIG company: different people
(05:04:58 PM) dneary: yippi, A Coruna doesn't include €25K for sponsorship, they also include €40K
(05:05:05 PM) matte_PLUG: and also there is a community 
(05:05:06 PM) dneary: yippi, They split it into travel & accommodation
(05:05:18 PM) yippi: fnadge, as I said I don't think the issues about Boston Summit are any sort of -1 for the Brno bid
(05:05:49 PM) emily: <yippi>: I can ask Bharath, since he show his interests last. Btw, I have invited GNOME.Asia memebers to join, but they are busy with selcting GNOME.Asia 2012 bids 
(05:05:50 PM) fnadge: Thanks, Red Hat does not centrally plan community conferences
(05:05:51 PM) dneary: yippi, I think you need to look at the FUDCons in Brno to compare like with like
(05:06:14 PM) yippi: fnadge understood
(05:06:16 PM) teuf: dneary: ah, my bad then I missed the $40k
(05:06:32 PM) dneary: It actually works out at €42K
(05:06:40 PM) yippi: also, everyone is very aware that Red Hat, overall, has been effective and active about making various events happen over the years
(05:07:11 PM) fnadge: thanks, am calming down again:)
(05:07:14 PM) teuf: yippi: I think you have to think of it in another way, if there are volunteers to organize a foss event, and these volunteers happen to work for RH, it's likely that RH will be supportive of their work
(05:07:45 PM) dneary: I was trying to figure out how Coruna was spending so much more money than us
(05:07:48 PM) teuf: in the Guadec case, we happen to have these volunteers, some of them working for RH I gather (?)
(05:07:51 PM) dneary: It's in the parketing & parties
(05:07:56 PM) teuf: in the boston summit case, I dunno
(05:08:04 PM) yippi: right.  Though the main reason why the main U.S. event is held in Boston is because Red Hat has offices there.  If it turns out there aren't Red Hat volunteers to continue make the Boston Summit happen, perhaps the U.S. event may move.
(05:08:49 PM) yippi: teuf, right
(05:09:33 PM) emily: It is 1 hour for our IRC meeting. 
(05:09:50 PM) emily: I can not stay longer
(05:10:14 PM) yippi: emily, do you think it makes sense to ask the board to review the bids now that they have been selected?
(05:10:20 PM) yippi: i mean submitted
(05:10:20 PM) dneary: fnadge, Tu es français?
(05:10:44 PM) emily: My action will be: write a document to list all the facts, then invite people to give core to them 
(05:10:45 PM) fnadge: Janse, a ty mluvis Cesky?
(05:10:46 PM) yippi: if the only people on the review committee are board members, it probably makes just as much sense to have the entire board review them.
(05:11:14 PM) emily: <yippi> : yes,  I already forward all the bids to board 
(05:11:30 PM) yippi: okay, let's just tell the board that we will review them as a group.
(05:11:59 PM) emily: OK, so I will create a google doc, then board will give score to each bid 
(05:12:28 PM) yippi: yes, and we should make sure to put this on the agenda for the next meeting.
(05:12:59 PM) yippi: again, I want to express that we really appreciate receiving such good bids to consider
(05:13:05 PM) emily: <yippi>: our next meeting is in two weeks 
(05:13:05 PM) dneary: emily, yippi: As a bidder, I'd really like to know soon what will be expected of bidders in terms of defending their bigs
(05:13:34 PM) yippi: dnary, what sort of timeframe would you like?
(05:13:38 PM) yippi: dneary i mean?
(05:13:42 PM) pmkovar: yes, in case that board members would have additional questions...
(05:14:01 PM) dneary: emily, yippi: I mean, will we do it before the DS on a conf call, will you short-list 2 of the 3 bids, how much time should I set aside over the next 3 weeks for this?
(05:14:35 PM) dneary: As pmkovar says: will there be an opportunity to address perceived short-comings, or will the decision be made on the basis of the bid documents alone?
(05:15:23 PM) dneary: I'd ideally like to have an idea before GUADEC.
(05:15:27 PM) yippi: Overall, these bids seem well prepared, so I do not expect that those who have submitted their bids will need to invest much time providing additional information
(05:15:58 PM) yippi: there may be some questions or items to clarify, but I would not expect these to require a big time investment to provide if needed.
(05:16:03 PM) dneary: yippi, I think I'd have some questions...
(05:16:09 PM) fnadge: So, what would be a realistic time frame, a week or two?
(05:16:43 PM) emily: how about one week for questions and feedback between board and biders ? 
(05:17:14 PM) fnadge: emily: sounds good to me
(05:17:18 PM) emily: through emails, both board and people who submit bids can discuss there 
(05:17:26 PM) yippi: the next board meeting is tomorrow
(05:17:42 PM) yippi: it is probably not realistic to expect the board to have made a decision by then.
(05:17:52 PM) emily: We can not make a decesion tomorrow, just involve all the board tomorrow 
(05:18:08 PM) yippi: i think it is realistic to expect the board to get back to you soon after the board meeting on the 26th at the latest.
(05:18:50 PM) emily: yes, 26th sounds reasonable. 
(05:19:13 PM) yippi: dneary, what questions?
(05:19:39 PM) yippi: or do you just mean to say that you expect that the board will ask questions.
(05:20:05 PM) pmkovar: fwiw, jiri eischmann as the contact person for the brno bid will be back on 25th
(05:20:20 PM) emily: have one week for people to provide feedback, defending, provide more informations sounds good. yippi, how do you think ? 
(05:20:31 PM) pmkovar: so i will act the contact person till 25th
(05:20:40 PM) dneary: yippi, Well, for the Lyon bid I'd have some questions about the venue
(05:20:54 PM) bobert [~bobert@c-76-126-62-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] entered the room.
(05:21:05 PM) dneary: I would probably like to get a commitment from Lyon 2 that the event will be free (or from the city that they'll pay for it).
(05:21:27 PM) emily: pmkovar: We contact you if we have any questions. :)
(05:21:31 PM) bobert: Just joined
(05:21:59 PM) pmkovar: emily: thanks
(05:22:10 PM) emily: bobert: hello
(05:22:51 PM) emily: bobert: we are reach to the end of the meeting 
(05:23:06 PM) bobert: Yes, I was afraid of that... :-)
(05:23:10 PM) emily: sorry, I have to leave now. 
(05:24:08 PM) emily: Let's say the timeframe is: one week for discussion and defending or update by email 
(05:24:44 PM) emily: What is our next GUADEC IRC meeting ? 
(05:25:17 PM) emily: How about we have the next IRC meeting in one week ? July 18th ? 
(05:25:32 PM) bobert: Sounds good
(05:25:42 PM) emily: Since we may have some update/feedback/discussion for the bids 
(05:26:10 PM) emily: next meeting is July 18th, UTC 14:00 
(05:26:55 PM) emily: July 11 - 18 is the week for discussion/defending/update bids by email 
(05:27:54 PM) emily: I have to offline now. you can continue the discussion here. 
(05:27:56 PM) emily: Bye 
(05:28:23 PM) emily left the room.
(05:28:57 PM) yippi_ [~bc99092@99.148.68.237] entered the room.
(05:30:49 PM) yippi_: i've been putting meeting minutes on the wiki
(05:34:07 PM) andre [~andre@g1.blanicka25.net] entered the room.
(05:36:02 PM) yippi_: gmc, bobert, matter_PLUG, neopoop, pmkovar, what are your names for the meeting minutes?
(05:36:25 PM) bobert: Real life name? Bob Murphy
(05:36:41 PM) pmkovar: yippi_: Petr Kovar, see https://live.gnome.org/PetrKovar
(05:37:10 PM) matte_PLUG: yippi_: matteo nunziati
(05:38:35 PM) yippi left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 600 seconds).
(05:38:52 PM) yippi_: the minutes are here: https://live.gnome.org/GUADEC/GUADEC-2011-0711
(05:39:05 PM) yippi_: i joined the meeting late.  could someone else attach a log of the meeting?
(05:39:29 PM) dneary: matte_PLUG, Were you planning on sending in a bid for Prato?
(05:39:49 PM) matte_PLUG: dneary: we are run out of time :-)
(05:40:04 PM) matte_PLUG: I've tried to create a bid due to the interest of some local bodies
(05:40:21 PM) pmkovar: yippi_: sure thing, i can do that
(05:40:47 PM) yippi_: thanks.  i created the link in the wiki, but it isn't active yet
(05:41:03 PM) matte_PLUG: dneary: it seems other people here were over committed to other projects
(05:41:54 PM) dneary: fnadge, Níl. Gaeilge.
(05:44:42 PM) fnadge: dneary: íche mhaith níl Gaeilge mhaith agam
(05:45:32 PM) fnadge: :)
(05:45:42 PM) dneary: fnadge, I'm not even sure I understood your czech. That *was* "Yes. Are you Czech", wasn't it?
(05:46:40 PM) fnadge: dneary: Close, I said that I speak better Czech, but no I am not Czech 
(05:46:44 PM) emily [~emily@221.223.95.124] entered the room.
(05:47:24 PM) dneary: OK
(05:47:27 PM) dneary: Are you French?
(05:48:56 PM) pmkovar: emily: are you working on uploading the irc log right now? i think there were edit conflicts ;-)
(05:49:04 PM) matte_PLUG: ehm... the irc log is *really* badly formatted :-S
(05:49:21 PM) emily: <pmkovar>: yes, that's why I am here again 
(05:49:50 PM) emily: It would be only one person to update it 
(05:50:12 PM) pmkovar: emily: all right, yippi asked me to do it, but never mind
(05:51:20 PM) emily: <pmkovar> : Would you please upload the final log? You are here in the whole meeting 
(05:52:28 PM) emily: <matte_PLUG>: sorry, I upload in .html file
(05:52:48 PM) pmkovar: emily: sure, are we supposed to include the discussions about who is irish and who speaks czech in the log? :-)
(05:53:06 PM) emily: <pmkovar>: it would be good if you can upload a whole log
(05:53:16 PM) emily: No problem to include them 
(05:53:31 PM) matte_PLUG: lol
(05:53:34 PM) pmkovar: ok
(05:54:32 PM) emily: pmkovar: Thank you