14:01:37 < OgMaciel> Welcome everyone to today's meeting! The agenda is empty but I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have!
14:02:29 < aday> OgMaciel: hi :)
14:02:51 < OgMaciel> howdy aday, how is it going?
14:04:27 < aday> OgMaciel: good thanks. really busy with design work at the moment
14:04:50 < OgMaciel> aday: cool! been busy myself
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14:21:09  * OgMaciel wondering if anyone has any questions...
14:23:07 < aday> OgMaciel: seems like everyone is saving their foundation business for the elections
14:23:16 < OgMaciel> hehe
14:23:33 < aday> OgMaciel: which is maybe a topic in itself - why people don't feel empowered to do this stuff anyway
14:24:05 < OgMaciel> aday: how so?
14:27:13 < aday> OgMaciel: a lot of people propose themselves for the board in order to do things that they could do anyway
14:27:35 < aday> OgMaciel: it would be cool if we could foster an environment where they just do it :)
14:28:36 < aday> OgMaciel: people have no end of ambitions and plans for gnome, yet this meeting is empty
14:28:45 < OgMaciel> aday: I think that is more of an attitude perception that can be dealt by the marketing team perhaps?
14:29:24 < OgMaciel> meaning, people need to know that they can come to meetings and make a difference
14:29:27  * aday hides
14:29:30 < OgMaciel> hehe
14:30:14 < aday> we could maybe look to other communities for inspiration. ubuntu does very well at inspiring community led projects, for 
                 example
14:30:25 < aday> i wonder what the differences are
14:30:49 < aday> (population might be one, of course)
14:31:16 < OgMaciel> true
14:31:57 < aday> maybe foundation membership could be made to mean more, somehow?
14:32:07 < aday> maybe we could provide resources to help community projects?
14:32:42 < OgMaciel> aday: we already have some resources available... what do you think we could provide?
14:34:05 < aday> no idea :)
14:34:38 < OgMaciel> hehe
14:43:29 < aday> we should really make a bigger deal of membership though - it would be really encouraging and enabling
14:43:39 < aday> look at all the stuff you get if you become a ubuntu member - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
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14:49:54 < andre> aday, maybe it's unclear what the "advantages" of being on the board are?
14:50:53 < andre> OgMaciel, well, where was this meeting announced? I didn't see anything except for a short-term (15min before) note on 
                  #gnome-hackers.
14:51:34 < OgMaciel> andre: it is published on news.g.o a week before the meeting...
14:51:40 < afranke> aday, what about taking the problem in reverse order? What use is the board if I can do everything from outside the board?
14:52:03 < andre> OgMaciel, urgh, a week. that's like... already a week ago? :-P
14:52:09 < OgMaciel> hehehe
14:52:38 < afranke> OgMaciel, do you think negociating LWN subscriptions for foundation members would be doable?
14:53:04 < andre> we should have an online ical file listing all such stuff that people can just have in their calendar probably...
14:53:07 < OgMaciel> afranke: we already give subscribers to FoG a subscription...
14:53:10 < andre> plus with any meetings...
14:53:21 < afranke> OgMaciel, and is that expensive for us?
14:53:22 < OgMaciel> andre: sounds like a good idea to me
14:53:30 < OgMaciel> afranke: we get a discount
15:16:43 < aday> andre: i thought there was an ical somewhere... might be wrong
15:17:12 < aday> andre: probably right about the advantages :)
15:17:38 < aday> i'd be really interested to hear about how easy it was for previous board members to pursue their own agenda
15:18:13 < andre> aday, ask!
15:18:45 < andre> I'm not sure either whether being on the board will help pushing some things (but I hope that I expressed this in my initial 
                  email already).
15:18:46 < aday> erm, erm... !
15:18:57 < aday> OgMaciel! ^
15:19:16 < OgMaciel> aday: one minute
15:19:44 < aday> afranke, andre: a lot of people seem to want the validation of being a board member in order to push their plans
15:20:17 < andre> hmm. I can do whatever I want anyway, I think. But the discussions are definitely insightful and good to have.
15:20:18 < aday> afranke, andre: so maybe we need a different way to validate people and their efforts...
15:20:26 < andre> maybe, yupp
15:21:01 < andre> for me it is rather "if people think I could help there, I'm in. If not, I'm also totally fine."
15:21:29 < aday> andre: sounds like a good attitude for the board
15:22:07 < OgMaciel> aday: on the phone here, but to answer your question, nothing blocks you from pursuing your agenda... it is a matter of 
                     having the time and disposition to do it
15:22:18 < aday> yea
15:22:38 < aday> my sense is that being on the board soaks up time that could be used pursuing a specific agenda
15:23:09 < aday> it would be cool in the board could endorse and give a structure to particular initiatives somehow
15:23:12 < OgMaciel> if you're a guy with a full time job and other important things (such as kids), then yes
15:24:00 < aday> andre wants to make contribution better, so he goes to the board and they give him a gun and a badge and ask him to report 
                 back in a month
15:24:48 < aday> and they maybe give him some exposure too
15:25:03 < andre> haha, actually that was my picture for the last two days at work (MeeGo) already: carrying a gun with me for some meetings...
15:25:05 < andre> "So you all agree with me? Fine, fine. You have to, you know?"
15:25:17 < OgMaciel> :)
15:27:35 < aday> andre: someone gave you power? what a terrifying prospect :D
15:27:44  * aday runs
15:28:52 < andre> no, I just took some power. however that's a tad harder for areas where there's this pseudo-democratic "elections" concept 
                  instead of mertiocracy, you know. ;-))
15:31:03 < aday> right - so that would be a really good thing the foundation could do - giving validity to people
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16:22:01 < ploum> aday, yep, also, it is a shame that the election seems of so few interest
16:22:06 < ploum> nearly no post on pgo
16:23:59 < andre> ploum, but you posted! :)
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16:34:55 < aday> ploum: i guess people feel they get enough by reading the foundation list
16:36:34 < ploum> aday, most people don't read the foundation list
16:36:45 < aday> ploum: even foundation members?
16:36:50 < ploum> I was hoping to see more debates
16:36:53 < ploum> aday, yes
16:37:05 < aday> hmph
16:37:14 < ploum> most of them unsubscribe after a few lefty vs RMS flamewars
16:37:22 < aday> understandable :)
16:37:31 < ploum> none of my members friends are actually subscribed to foundation
16:37:54 < aday> i guess people will start to be more interested if they see the foundation making a difference
16:38:07 < ploum> aday, yes, exactly
16:38:08 < aday> right now it's more administrative (which is fine)
16:38:20 < aday> (but not interesting)
16:38:27 < ploum> I think that the foundation should be more visible
16:38:40 < aday> i agree
16:38:51 < ploum> I really like OgMaciel ideas about having more advantages for members
16:38:58 < aday> hey, that was my idea!
16:39:06 < ploum> ops, sorry ;-)
16:39:11 < aday> heh heh
16:39:23 < ploum> some people asked me "but why should I become a member?"
16:39:35 < aday> there's loads we can do there
16:39:42 < aday> i'll agenda it for the next meeting
16:39:53 < ploum> I proposed that previously, for example, that members could automatically have the blog on the planet
16:40:06 < aday> nod. ubuntu does that
16:40:12 < ploum> because, actually, there is no relationship between being on the planet or being a member
16:40:28 < ploum> yes, I know, I was late in this meeting ;-)
16:40:33 < ploum> missed it
16:40:38 < aday> the planet has slightly different criteria, but they overlap
16:40:57 < ploum> it should be easier to just throw everybody in the same basket
16:41:15 < ploum> and, maybe, handle special case on a case-by-case basis
16:41:26 < aday> ploum: but to go back to your point about visibility - our technical development is becoming more goal orientated. it makes 
                 sense to mirror that in how the project is orientated
16:41:47 < aday> we could have something analogous to feature proposals, for example
16:42:40 < ploum> aday, could you give me an example?
16:42:48 < ploum> I think I see but not really sure
16:43:44 < ploum> I'm surprized you didn't stand for election yourself :-)
16:43:52 < aday> ploum: in your case, you'd propose a gnome business ecosystem initiative which the board would endorse in some way
16:44:11 < ploum> mm, I think I get your point
16:44:23 < ploum> I have to think more about it but it is really intererting
16:46:45 < aday> ploum: you'd also be required to set goals and to report back at a certain time - so there's an incentive
16:48:16 < ploum> aday, that makes sense
16:48:19 < ploum> really good idea
16:48:46 < ploum> I'm not sure I grasp all the implications yet but I will keep that in mind
16:57:34 < ploum> well, time to take some fresh air
16:57:40 < ploum> see you aday :-)
16:57:46 < ploum> thanks for all the good ideas
17:04:48 < aday> ploum: see you around :)