1 --> You are now talking on #docs
   2 <shaunm> morning folks
   3 <swoop> Good evening :)
   4 <pcutler_> morning
   5 <Gwaihir> hello!
   6 <shaunm> hey hey hey
   7  shall we get started?
   8 <pcutler_> we shall
   9 <Gwaihir> yep, don't think phil will make it on time...
  10 <shaunm> ok
  11  so the only thing on the agenda is planning
  12 <Gwaihir> big task... do we have an idea if 2.30 will be 3.0?
  13 <shaunm> does anybody have anything else they want to talk about?
  14 <Gwaihir> that will change a lot our planning, I think...
  15 <pcutler_> I'm doubtful, but i have no basis in fact yet, still waiting on the release team
  16  even Owen recommended Shell is not ready
  17 <shaunm> yeah
  18  my feeling is that 2.30 won't be 3.0
  19  none of the team reports I've seen were pushing for it
  20 <Gwaihir> we are probably safe so...
  21  at least for the 2.30 release
  22 <shaunm> so I think we need to decide on which documents to tackle
  23  feature freeze isn't until Jan 25
  24  would it be worthwhile, as a sort of team-building exercise, to tackle smaller documents that we don't anticipate changing much?
  25  for the next month or two
  26  gnome-games, character map, calculator, etc
  27 <Gwaihir> yeah, that would be a good exercise
  28  gnome-games in general or some specifi games?
  29 <shaunm> well, we could ask which ones are the most stable
  30 <pcutler_> 6 months ago I was reviewing bugzilla for docs bugs - gnome-games has a lot open, and with everything changing in gnome-games, probably all of them need to be touched
  31 <Gwaihir> a couple of game manuals are not really that easy even to read...
  32 <shaunm> I know there's plans to redo some of them in clutter
  33 * pcutler_ opens a Wave for meeting minutes
  34 <shaunm> but then, a clutter rewrite probably won't change the gameplay much, if any, so I don't know that it would invalidate anything but the screenshots
  35 <Gwaihir> we  can work on tetravex started by Mario and expand on that of he agrees
  36 <shaunm> yes
  37 <Gwaihir> it should be easy and short
  38 <shaunm> oh cool, I've never seen live editing in wave before
  39 <pcutler_> this way I won't put off minutes for days on end
  40 <Gwaihir> mystic experience... try to do that with four people waving :)
  41 <shaunm> well, should we just do a planning session for one right now?
  42 <pcutler_> sure
  43  shaunm: if you / we decide on a game, can you share your thoughts on help for games?  I remember you saying something about gameplay vs strategy or something like that
  44 <shaunm> all right, so games in general
  45 <pcutler_> swoop: do you have a google wave account?
  46 <shaunm> so I think most of the topics in the empathy help can be divided into tasks, problems, and concepts
  47 <swoop> pcutler_: no is that a requirement?
  48 <pcutler_> swoop: not at all, was just curious
  49 <swoop> pcutler_: hehe ok
  50 <shaunm> and that's going to be pretty common
  51  but I don't think there's a lot of discernible tasks for games
  52  task "I want to win this game"
  53 <pcutler_> yeah, rumor is Wave Federation is close to launching, I'd like to see GNOME host a Wave server, but anyway, back on track
  54 <shaunm> so, "Introduction" is a common page for any application help
  55  for a game, I think Introduction should give you the basic gameplay and winning conditions
  56  so maybe the Introduction page should be called "Gameplay"
  57  that's one page
  58  a separate "Strategy" page would be really nice
  59  (in some cases, multiple strategy pages might be called for)
  60  two pages
  61 <Gwaihir> what about a "Tips & Tricks" section or page?
  62 <pcutler_> Multiplayer if it's a multiplayer game
  63 <shaunm> I'm going to start pushing to add accessibility notes to most of our help documents.  I've already talked to Willie Walker about this
  64  three pages
  65 <shaunm> pcutler_: oh good point
  66 <Gwaihir> wouldn't multyplayer fall under gameplay?
  67 <pcutler_> i think how to connect another player, start a match, stuff like that is different
  68  I wouldn't be suprised if over time we see more multiplayer games with tubes
  69 <Gwaihir> yeah... sure
  70 <shaunm> right, so that's kind of a basic framework.  I think to go further, you have to start talking about specific games
  71  some of the games, for instance, have multiple actual games in them
  72  where gameplay and strategy could be completely different
  73  notably, aisleriot
  74 <pcutler_> yup
  75  brb
  76 <Gwaihir> shaunm, what about the accessibility notes?
  77  how will we add them?
  78 <shaunm> Gwaihir: we'll email the accessibility list
  79  and get content from content experts
  80 <Gwaihir> shall we do it for Empathy since we already have its help in place?
  81 <shaunm> yes
  82  (only if there are things worth mentioning)
  83 <Gwaihir> cool... don't know what to ask them though, since I've never done that before...
  84 <shaunm> I'll get it started
  85  I'll CC gnome-doc-list
  86  what else?
  87 <pcutler_> this is minor, but we should probably start a wiki page listing all the different mallard documents in progress
  88 <shaunm> yeah
  89  sigh
  90 <Gwaihir> we have a small table here: http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/Planning
  91 <shaunm> pulse, o pulse, where art thou?
  92 <pcutler_> shaunm: sysadmin team has wrapped up some projects - want to put an email together about pulse requirements?
  93 <Gwaihir> pulse will be precious for us now...
  94 <shaunm> pcutler_: I would need to spend at least two weeks hacking on it
  95 <pcutler_> ok
  96 <Gwaihir> BTW, not related to the games help, but to the user guide, since we need to rewrite it, should we start looking at it and maybe trying to run a survey to understand what people find useful in what we have now and what they would like to see?
  97 <shaunm> well, that's the elephant in the room
  98  when do we want to get started on that?
  99  a lot of what's in it will be determined by gnome-shell
 100  then again, with mallard, we don't have to have it put all together before we write pieces of it
 101 <Gwaihir> yeah... I was thinking to start writing something about gnome-shell as is now
 102 <shaunm> (I think a face-to-face meeting would be awesome for this)
 103 <Gwaihir> like worspaces, and the activities
 104  (yeah... that would be great)
 105  those things should be almost "final" (I think... and I hope...)
 106  BTW, in the user guide we have things describing windows and the type of windows (application, dialog), are those concepts going to change with gnome-shell?
 107 <shaunm> I'm not sure.  is that content useful?
 108  does anybody ever read that and say "oh, that's a *dialog* window!  oh man, that totally changes the way I click the OK button"
 109 <Gwaihir> that's why I wanted to run a survey :)
 110  all that sections, for me, are not even read
 111 <pcutler_> agreed
 112 <Gwaihir> there is still the "drawer" in there... is anybody using it?
 113 <pcutler_> Gwaihir: do you want to start putting together a survey?  
 114  oh my, no
 115 <shaunm> haha, drawers
 116 <Gwaihir> yeah... I can start looking into it, then we can decide if it's useful to run it
 117 <shaunm> accessibility email sent
 118  all right
 119  so I think with these smaller documents, we have a good opportunity for recruitment
 120  we have a pretty clear idea of what content we want in them
 121  we should make some noise to get people to come write
 122  low-hanging fruit
 123 <pcutler_> agreed
 124 <Gwaihir> starting to write a blog post about it
 125 <shaunm> excellent
 126 <Gwaihir> BTW... how do I get into planet.gnome? Claude wrote me a couple of weeks ago, but don't know if he added me to the planet...
 127 <pcutler_> Gwaihir: lucas or vuntz need to approve you
 128  what did claude say?
 129 <Gwaihir> he asked me if I wanted to be added to planet gnome... and I agreed
 130 <pcutler_> yeah, i'd recommend you too - I'll follow up with vuntz too.  They typically update it every couple of weeks and add a bunch at a time I think
 131 <Gwaihir> oh... cool, thx
 132 <pcutler_> Gwaihir: maybe forward vuntz and lucasr the email from claude, add your feed link and hackergotchi to the email, that's all they need
 133 <Gwaihir> all right, will do that
 134 <shaunm> anything else?
 135 <pcutler_> not that I can think of
 136 <Gwaihir> not right now
 137 <shaunm> "This wave is experiencing some slight turbulence, and may explode. If you don't wanna explode, please re-open the wave. Some recent changes may not be saved."
 138  oh em gee
 139 <Gwaihir> :)
 140  yeah...it happened to me too... the funnies warning ever :)
 141 <shaunm> all right, I'm going to go make pancakes
 142 <pcutler_> enjoy