1 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 14 16:56:29 2006
   2 
   3 Feb 14 16:57:14 *	behdad (~behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM014250035807.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #ui-review
   4 Feb 14 16:58:00 *	joachim (~joachim@ACD4B5AF.ipt.aol.com) has joined #ui-review
   5 Feb 14 16:59:57 *	luis (~louie@c-66-31-46-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #ui-review
   6 Feb 14 17:04:57 <calum>	mccann: so, it's your show today :)  what do you want us to look at, prefs dialog, locked screen dialog, anything else...?
   7 Feb 14 17:05:14 <mccann>	that sounds good
   8 Feb 14 17:05:31 <calum>	does everyone here have a recent version, or do we need some screenshots?
   9 Feb 14 17:05:38 <mccann>	I've made some screenshots http://acs.pha.jhu.edu/~mccannwj/GNOME/ui-review/
  10 Feb 14 17:06:12 <calum>	ah, cool...
  11 Feb 14 17:06:14 <mccann>	It would be best if everyone had a recent version tho
  12 Feb 14 17:06:24 *	calum has 2.13.90
  13 Feb 14 17:06:31 <mccann>	like today if possible ;)
  14 Feb 14 17:06:44 *	joachim too
  15 Feb 14 17:07:15 *	lmanul (~manu@82.239.58.38) has joined #ui-review
  16 Feb 14 17:07:23 <mccann>	that is fine - the only UI that should have changed since then is the doc team requested a HELP button in the prefs
  17 Feb 14 17:07:33 <joachim>	mccann, is there any work done on docs for this at all?
  18 Feb 14 17:07:36 <calum>	yeah, I see that :)
  19 Feb 14 17:07:56 <mccann>	joachim: no
  20 Feb 14 17:07:59 <joachim>	ok
  21 Feb 14 17:08:19 <mccann>	was it you who requested the help button?
  22 Feb 14 17:08:24 <joachim>	yup
  23 Feb 14 17:08:40 <mccann>	cool - your help will be greatly appreciated
  24 Feb 14 17:08:48 <joachim>	:)
  25 Feb 14 17:08:54 <calum>	ok, so shall we start with http://acs.pha.jhu.edu/~mccannwj/GNOME/ui-review/Screenshot-Screensaver%20Preferences.png ?
  26 Feb 14 17:09:03 <mccann>	sure
  27 Feb 14 17:10:32 <calum>	so, first comment... because there's really only one "frame" in this dialog, I'm not sure we need to do the "bold title, indent the rest" thing... I'd probably have a non-bold label at the top, and align everything else with it....
  28 Feb 14 17:10:34 *	sgarrit1 (~steven@rind.silverorange.com) has joined #ui-review
  29 Feb 14 17:10:49 <sgarrit1>	screenshots?
  30 Feb 14 17:10:50 <calum>	sgarrit1: http://acs.pha.jhu.edu/~mccannwj/GNOME/ui-review/Screenshot-Screensaver%20Preferences.png
  31 Feb 14 17:11:42 <joachim>	I'm not sure about using the word 'session'
  32 Feb 14 17:11:49 <joachim>	most users don't know what that is
  33 Feb 14 17:11:50 <mccann>	sounds ok - there once was an Options frame
  34 Feb 14 17:11:56 <calum>	joachim: yeah, I was going to get to that :)
  35 Feb 14 17:12:03 <calum>	mccann: ah, I see...
  36 Feb 14 17:12:46 <calum>	so since joachim brought it up, what do people think about the use of "session"... any better ideas?
  37 Feb 14 17:12:51 <sgarrit1>	do we need the "Screensave" label at all?
  38 Feb 14 17:13:04 <joachim>	for the access key
  39 Feb 14 17:13:07 <calum>	sgarrit1: well, the mnemonic makes it easy to focus the list from the keyboard, I guess...
  40 Feb 14 17:13:14 <mccann>	regarding session, this is relatively recent and is due to the fact that the screensaver defines idleness for the entire desktop session.  I toyed with "mark as away" etc
  41 Feb 14 17:13:16 <sgarrit1>	ah
  42 Feb 14 17:18:13 <mccann>	for example, gnome-power-manager uses the idle change signal to start counting down to its actions
  43 Feb 14 17:18:13 <lmanul>	About "session", why not simply "computer" (that would speak to most users) ?
  44 Feb 14 17:18:13 <mccann>	lmanul: the technical reason is that the computer is a collection of sessions.  Tho that might not be important for the UI.
  45 Feb 14 17:18:13 <sgarrit1>	So, why is there both a checkbox to activate the screensaver when session is idle, and a slider to set session as idle?
  46 Feb 14 17:18:13 <mccann>	I've stuggled over this and would love your suggestions :)
  47 Feb 14 17:18:13 <lmanul>	mccann: right, but no matter how the program manages things internally, "my computer is idle" is what most users will see ?
  48 Feb 14 17:18:13 <sgarrit1>	why not just the slider with "never" as the far right? http://oit.uta.edu/desktop/energystar/mac_files/OS_X.1_Screen_Saver.JPG
  49 Feb 14 17:18:13 <mccann>	sgarrit1, the slider defines the time of inactivity after which the session is idle.  The checkbox makes the screensaver go on at that point
  50 Feb 14 17:18:13 <sgarrit1>	does "idle" mean anything if you don't have the screensaver activated?
  51 Feb 14 17:18:13 <mccann>	sgarrit1, yes
  52 Feb 14 17:18:30 *	Disconnected ().
  53 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 14 17:18:30 2006
  54 
  55 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 14 17:19:18 2006
  56 
  57 Feb 14 17:19:18 *	Now talking on #ui-review
  58 Feb 14 17:19:18 *	Topic for #ui-review is: currently reviewing http://burtonini.com/temp/sj-start-ripping.png
  59 Feb 14 17:19:18 *	Topic for #ui-review set by calum at Mon Feb 13 18:13:20 2006
  60 Feb 14 17:19:43 <mccann>	sgarrit1, in other words there are two distinct things: idleness and screensaver-activation
  61 Feb 14 17:19:53 <calum>	(sorry, my connection is flaky today)
  62 Feb 14 17:20:24 <sgarrit1>	mccann: Ah, I see.
  63 Feb 14 17:20:32 <mccann>	i'm not saying it isn't confusing
  64 Feb 14 17:20:43 <mccann>	but pretty much unavoidable
  65 Feb 14 17:20:50 <sgarrit1>	couldn't "Activate screensaver when session is idle" be "Enable screensaver"?
  66 Feb 14 17:21:36 <mccann>	perhaps
  67 Feb 14 17:21:44 *	nsh (~shmyrev@194.88.210.254) has joined #ui-review
  68 Feb 14 17:21:47 <lmanul>	What else is this "idle session" state used for ? Away state in IM ?
  69 Feb 14 17:22:12 <mccann>	i think I tried to make it clear that the activation would occur after the time of the slider above
  70 Feb 14 17:22:24 <sgarrit1>	yeah, that does make sense.
  71 Feb 14 17:22:25 <calum>	nsh: http://acs.pha.jhu.edu/~mccannwj/GNOME/ui-review/Screenshot-Screensaver%20Preferences.png
  72 Feb 14 17:22:27 <mccann>	lmanul, yes that and power management, etc
  73 Feb 14 17:22:48 <calum>	hrmm... wouldn't really think to look in screensaver prefs to set that, to be honest...
  74 Feb 14 17:22:55 <sgarrit1>	calum: agreed
  75 Feb 14 17:22:57 <calum>	although I dunno where I would look :)
  76 Feb 14 17:22:58 <joachim>	there isn't a power management prefs tool is there?
  77 Feb 14 17:22:59 <sgarrit1>	not sure where else though...
  78 Feb 14 17:23:08 <lmanul>	Session preferences ?
  79 Feb 14 17:23:09 <sgarrit1>	power-management, maybe - yeah.
  80 Feb 14 17:23:11 <mccann>	there really isn't a good place that I know of
  81 Feb 14 17:23:15 <calum>	lmanul: yes, maybe...
  82 Feb 14 17:23:33 <mccann>	sgarrit1,  but on the other hand would you look there for the time to set your screensaver?
  83 Feb 14 17:23:45 <sgarrit1>	mccann: yeah, true.
  84 Feb 14 17:23:49 <joachim>	have it in both, like on OS X
  85 Feb 14 17:24:21 <mccann>	joachim, i've considered that ... let me make it even more complicated for a sec:
  86 Feb 14 17:24:40 <mccann>	joachim, you'd probably want to have different timeouts for on-ac and on-battery :)
  87 Feb 14 17:24:55 <sgarrit1>	yeah, but does that have anything to do with screensaver?
  88 Feb 14 17:25:23 <calum>	definitely starting to smell of power management there...
  89 Feb 14 17:25:27 <joachim>	or you could consider the Session prefs setting as 'Master', and Scrensaver can take that or set its own
  90 Feb 14 17:26:43 <lmanul>	Is there a plan to make a global "Power saving" preference ?
  91 Feb 14 17:27:17 <mccann>	this is all the more complicated by the fact that it has been decreed that gnome-power-manager will not be part of 2.14
  92 Feb 14 17:27:37 <joachim>	so we're looking at a stopgap solution until 2.16
  93 Feb 14 17:28:09 <mccann>	keep in mind that DPMS has been moved from g-s to g-p-m too
  94 Feb 14 17:28:27 <sgarrit1>	DPMS?
  95 Feb 14 17:28:34 <mccann>	display power management
  96 Feb 14 17:28:41 <sgarrit1>	ah
  97 Feb 14 17:30:30 <mccann>	i'm very much open to suggestions
  98 Feb 14 17:31:30 <sgarrit1>	I think a global "Enable screensaver" checkbox at the top that activated/deactivated the list/preview area might make sense.
  99 Feb 14 17:31:40 <mccann>	lmanul, sorry i missed your message - the global power saving stuff is in gnome-power-manager
 100 Feb 14 17:32:29 <joachim>	global checkbox at top -- but the slider still has to be active for other things, no?
 101 Feb 14 17:32:39 <mccann>	sgarrit1, i had that for a while.  Here's why that doesn't work: even when screensaver is not enabled the user must be able to lock the screen and choose a screensaver theme for it.
 102 Feb 14 17:32:50 <joachim>	oh yeah that too
 103 Feb 14 17:32:57 <sgarrit1>	screensaver theme for locking?
 104 Feb 14 17:33:07 <joachim>	when you lock the screen, you get the saver
 105 Feb 14 17:33:16 <lmanul>	mccann: well I mean on the long term, will g-p-m come with some kind of global "Energy Saver" Preference ?
 106 Feb 14 17:33:48 <mccann>	there are two separate activation modes: idle activation and user-lock activation
 107 Feb 14 17:33:53 <joachim>	The User Guide says 'To lock your screen correctly, you must have a screensaver enabled.' but it's lying
 108 Feb 14 17:34:08 <mccann>	that is why i tried to label the checkbox the way it is now
 109 Feb 14 17:34:19 <sgarrit1>	if there's no screensaver enabled/chosen, lock screens should probably just blank the screen...
 110 Feb 14 17:34:34 <joachim>	ok, being a bit creative here.....
 111 Feb 14 17:34:52 <joachim>	"After [---------------*----------] minutes:"
 112 Feb 14 17:34:58 <joachim>	"  [] Activate the SS"
 113 Feb 14 17:35:02 <joachim>	"  [] Lock the screen"
 114 Feb 14 17:35:44 <joachim>	replace "after" with "If the computer is idle for:"
 115 Feb 14 17:36:35 <lmanul>	Looks good !
 116 Feb 14 17:37:37 <calum>	might be nice if the timeout was shown in a spinbox rather than just as a label, so you could type in a value manually, too...
 117 Feb 14 17:37:50 <calum>	i.e. [------------*---------] [20] minutes
 118 Feb 14 17:38:21 *	calum hates having to do precision dragging :)
 119 Feb 14 17:38:42 <lmanul>	yeah, I had this exact experience yesterday
 120 Feb 14 17:39:02 <mccann>	joachim, the trick i think is to make it clear that the slider sets a policy for when the session goes into an idle state
 121 Feb 14 17:39:19 <sgarrit1>	I like joachim's double checkbox suggetion.
 122 Feb 14 17:39:28 <sgarrit1>	maybe the label could imply the idle time set too...
 123 Feb 14 17:39:34 <lmanul>	one thing I liked in xscreensaver is that each screensaver had its own checkbox, so you could choose among which screensavers "random" could choose
 124 Feb 14 17:39:58 <sgarrit1>	"Set session as idle after: " [---------------*----------] minutes:
 125 Feb 14 17:39:58 <sgarrit1>	"  [] Activate the SS"
 126 Feb 14 17:39:58 <sgarrit1>	"  [] Lock the screen"
 127 Feb 14 17:40:41 <joachim>	lmanul, me too
 128 Feb 14 17:40:59 <joachim>	Is that policy something that really afffects users?
 129 Feb 14 17:41:00 <mccann>	lmanul, that is one of the things I hate about the xscreensaver dialog
 130 Feb 14 17:41:02 <sgarrit1>	I think the simplicity of this setup is worth losing that ability.
 131 Feb 14 17:41:08 <lmanul>	joachim's layout seemed more direct to me (only one sentence)
 132 Feb 14 17:41:25 <lmanul>	sgarrit1: I don't agree :)
 133 Feb 14 17:42:24 <joachim>	"Go to idle mode after [-----------------] [20] minutes"
 134 Feb 14 17:43:50 *	JDay (~jason@c-24-21-161-9.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #ui-review
 135 Feb 14 17:44:15 <mccann>	sgarrit1, I think your controls suggestion might work
 136 Feb 14 17:44:34 <mccann>	it is very similar to what we have now tho
 137 Feb 14 17:44:41 <joachim>	s/session/computer/
 138 Feb 14 17:44:57 <sgarrit1>	mccann: yes - it is similar.
 139 Feb 14 17:45:02 <mccann>	calum: what do you think about the terms session vs. computer?
 140 Feb 14 17:45:07 <sgarrit1>	does the list box get disabled when the checkbox is off?
 141 Feb 14 17:45:40 <calum>	mccann: I think it would be better not to use session if possible, yes...
 142 Feb 14 17:45:58 <mccann>	sgarrit1, no because it allows you to have a theme enabled when manually activating the screensaver
 143 Feb 14 17:46:09 <calum>	mccann: dunno if "computer" is necessarily right either though :)
 144 Feb 14 17:46:27 <joachim>	system? GNOME?
 145 Feb 14 17:46:32 <calum>	maybe just "Mark as idle after [---] minutes"?  Then you don't need session or computer :)
 146 Feb 14 17:46:40 <joachim>	neat
 147 Feb 14 17:46:48 <sgarrit1>	mccann: oh yeah...
 148 Feb 14 17:46:59 <mccann>	calum: the only other similar concept i could find in other software is the away status in AIM etc
 149 Feb 14 17:47:17 <joachim>	do IM apps respect this setting?
 150 Feb 14 17:47:19 <calum>	yeah... they tend to use "mark", but you really are marking something there... you're not really doing that here...
 151 Feb 14 17:47:44 <mccann>	joachim, i hope that they will
 152 Feb 14 17:48:07 <joachim>	but logically the user might want an IM to have a lower threshold
 153 Feb 14 17:48:25 <mccann>	joachim, why?
 154 Feb 14 17:48:52 <joachim>	because I want GAIM to say I am busy/away if I've not touched GAIM for 5 mins. But I'm on my computer doing some work
 155 Feb 14 17:49:14 <lmanul>	joachim wrote "Enter idle mode after...", is that better than "mark" ?
 156 Feb 14 17:49:18 *	sivang (sivan@193.28.45.42) has joined #ui-review
 157 Feb 14 17:49:33 <lmanul>	Hi sivang :)
 158 Feb 14 17:49:39 <mccann>	joachim, that is somewhat different 
 159 Feb 14 17:49:48 <mccann>	joachim, because the converse will never be true
 160 Feb 14 17:49:59 <sivang>	hey lmanul :-) I would have ended here on way or another eventually i guess working on the backup spec.
 161 Feb 14 17:50:00 <mccann>	joachim, when the session is idle you will never be present on IM
 162 Feb 14 17:50:04 <joachim>	true
 163 Feb 14 17:50:08 <sgarrit1>	I've gotta run...
 164 Feb 14 17:50:08 *	sgarrit1 (~steven@rind.silverorange.com) has left #ui-review
 165 Feb 14 17:50:15 <joachim>	that means one bounds the other
 166 Feb 14 17:50:34 <joachim>	looking at GAIM now, it has its own setting for idleness
 167 Feb 14 17:50:40 <mccann>	joachim, yes the session idle is the upper bound
 168 Feb 14 17:50:48 <calum>	lmanul: "modes" are never very nice :)
 169 Feb 14 17:51:13 <joachim>	agreed
 170 Feb 14 17:51:26 *	joachim takes back modes
 171 Feb 14 17:51:32 <lmanul>	right...
 172 Feb 14 17:54:25 <calum>	so, let's just recap here (because I'm trying to do about three things at once, and may have missed something)... are we basically happy with sgarrit1's last suggestion, which is bascially similar to what's there now, but we're just trying to agree on a better wording?
 173 Feb 14 17:54:48 <mccann>	calum: that was my understanding too
 174 Feb 14 17:55:17 <joachim>	yup
 175 Feb 14 17:55:18 <calum>	ok ... and we'd prefer not to use "session" or "mode" :)
 176 Feb 14 17:56:49 *	calum gets back into synonym mode^H^H^H creation mindset
 177 Feb 14 17:58:37 <mccann>	it is tough because we don't have an integration of the user into the desktop - so we can't use typical presence idioms
 178 Feb 14 17:58:46 <calum>	yeah... ah feck it, let's move on to the next screenshot and come back to it if we have time :)
 179 Feb 14 17:58:56 <calum>	we're agreed the basic functionality is right, wording can always be improved later...
 180 Feb 14 17:59:03 <mccann>	righto
 181 Feb 14 17:59:05 <joachim>	checkboxes on the SS list is a no then?
 182 Feb 14 17:59:24 <calum>	ah ok, forgot about that bit :)
 183 Feb 14 17:59:25 <mccann>	joachim, correct.  There is a bug open for removing items from the list tho
 184 Feb 14 17:59:43 <joachim>	what about settings button for the savers?
 185 Feb 14 18:00:18 <mccann>	joachim, no plans for that at the moment for both technical and ui reasons
 186 Feb 14 18:00:39 <mccann>	i get lots of hate for that one
 187 Feb 14 18:00:46 <joachim>	does random mode cycle, or just pick one and stick?
 188 Feb 14 18:01:22 <mccann>	random selects randomly from all themes and will cycle after a certain time (gconf setting)
 189 Feb 14 18:02:10 <joachim>	hmm, I can see us getting hit with the 'GNOME keeps removing features' stick 
 190 Feb 14 18:03:02 <calum>	heh
 191 Feb 14 18:03:17 <calum>	well, UI reviews aren't really about features, so let's not worry about that for now :)
 192 Feb 14 18:04:45 <calum>	shall we move on to the unlock dialogs, in order of complexity...?  starting with http://acs.pha.jhu.edu/~mccannwj/GNOME/ui-review/Screenshot-Unlock.png ...
 193 Feb 14 18:04:52 <mccann>	sure
 194 Feb 14 18:04:58 *	calum is hoping this part won't take long :)
 195 Feb 14 18:05:42 *	calum is scared to see "johnny" and "logan" in such close proximity :)
 196 Feb 14 18:06:07 <lmanul>	is "logan" the host name ? the login ?
 197 Feb 14 18:06:14 <mccann>	calum: why?
 198 Feb 14 18:06:15 <calum>	good question
 199 Feb 14 18:06:33 <mccann>	logan is the username
 200 Feb 14 18:06:39 <calum>	mccann: he's an Irish singer, holds the record for the most Eurovision Song Contest victories... probably means nothing to you over there :)
 201 Feb 14 18:06:51 <mccann>	ha :)
 202 Feb 14 18:06:57 <joachim>	so much so that they had to get Father Ted to do the song...
 203 Feb 14 18:07:11 <calum>	hehe :)
 204 Feb 14 18:07:16 <mccann>	http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047136/
 205 Feb 14 18:08:45 <calum>	only other comment would be that it might be nice to have an icon on the Unlock button... maybe GTK_STOCK_AUTHENTICATE or whatever it's called...?
 206 Feb 14 18:09:07 <calum>	lmanul: do you think that's a problem?  any suggestion for improvement?
 207 Feb 14 18:09:17 <lmanul>	Do we really need the full name *and* the login ?
 208 Feb 14 18:09:27 <mccann>	calum: that's fine.  We used to have it.  mpt recommended it be removed.
 209 Feb 14 18:09:33 <calum>	mccann: oh, ok :)
 210 Feb 14 18:09:43 <mccann>	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreenSaver
 211 Feb 14 18:10:05 <calum>	mccann: well, I know he's a "no icons on buttons" advocate... so am I, but I'd rather have all or none to be honest...
 212 Feb 14 18:10:27 <mccann>	fine by me
 213 Feb 14 18:10:32 *	lmanul prefers all ! :)
 214 Feb 14 18:10:47 <calum>	would hostname be useful somewhere?  I quite often want to walk up and find out the name of a machine, if it's locked like this I wouldn't be able to...
 215 Feb 14 18:11:00 <mccann>	oh, and the icon is still on the cancel because I couldn't figure out how to remove it from a stock button
 216 Feb 14 18:11:01 <lmanul>	hmm, yeah
 217 Feb 14 18:11:17 <calum>	mccann: yeah, think you'd have to fake your own
 218 Feb 14 18:11:49 <mccann>	calum, we used to have that too.  I think it got removed in the mpt reworking.  You can see it on some of the screenshots on the ubuntu wiki
 219 Feb 14 18:12:08 <lmanul>	mccann: wouldn't gtk_button_set_image work, with a NULL argument ? Anyway
 220 Feb 14 18:12:08 <mccann>	calum: where would you put the computer name?
 221 Feb 14 18:12:31 <lmanul>	What about just below the full name, prefixed by "on" ?
 222 Feb 14 18:12:39 <mccann>	is it preferrable to remove the icon from cancel or add icons to all?
 223 Feb 14 18:12:40 <lmanul>	(where the login is now)
 224 Feb 14 18:13:08 <calum>	or even beside it... "logan on hurdygurdy"
 225 Feb 14 18:13:27 <mccann>	calum: ooh, i like that
 226 Feb 14 18:13:35 <lmanul>	yeah
 227 Feb 14 18:13:42 <calum>	mccann: no, I think people expect an icon on Cancel, so I'd prefer all... but I don't want to invoke the wrath of mpt either :)
 228 Feb 14 18:14:17 <mccann>	calum: OK
 229 Feb 14 18:16:03 <calum>	ok, I only have about 5 mins left, so can we skip straight to http://acs.pha.jhu.edu/~mccannwj/GNOME/ui-review/Screenshot-Unlock-Switch-Logout.png since it has all the buttons on it? :)
 230 Feb 14 18:16:13 <mccann>	yup
 231 Feb 14 18:16:21 <joachim>	when would you see this instead of the earlier one?
 232 Feb 14 18:17:20 <mccann>	unless you enable-logout in gconf you'd never see it
 233 Feb 14 18:17:27 <mccann>	this is mostly for sysadmins with public systems
 234 Feb 14 18:17:47 <mccann>	in case people leave systems locked
 235 Feb 14 18:18:59 <joachim>	i'd make the password the same width as on the earlier one, give it space each side
 236 Feb 14 18:19:44 <calum>	I guess my only comment would be icons again... we have a logout one, but dunno what you'd use for Switch User.  This is where mpt's opinion of button icons is probably more pertinent  :)
 237 Feb 14 18:20:13 <lmanul>	I have an icon for switch user :)
 238 Feb 14 18:20:25 <calum>	heh, cool :)
 239 Feb 14 18:20:32 <mccann>	calum : icons also make it wider :(
 240 Feb 14 18:20:36 <calum>	yeah :/
 241 Feb 14 18:20:54 <calum>	so perhaps we really should just leave them off everywhere, except for Cancel
 242 Feb 14 18:20:56 <joachim>	4 buttons seems a lot but I don't see what to suggest
 243 Feb 14 18:20:59 <lmanul>	http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/code/logout_dialog/switch.png
 244 Feb 14 18:21:08 <joachim>	unless you move "log out" to the "switch user" dialog
 245 Feb 14 18:21:37 <joachim>	hm no, scratch that
 246 Feb 14 18:24:46 <calum>	ok, can we have a quick look at http://acs.pha.jhu.edu/~mccannwj/GNOME/ui-review/Screenshot-Switch.png before I go then... after that you can talk about whatever you like :)
 247 Feb 14 18:24:59 <mccann>	yup
 248 Feb 14 18:25:36 <calum>	not sure I have any comments here actually, looks good to me...
 249 Feb 14 18:25:53 <lmanul>	Why are there "..." after "Switch user" ?
 250 Feb 14 18:25:54 <mccann>	anyone feel free to mail screensaver-list@gnome to continue discussion
 251 Feb 14 18:26:05 <joachim>	the left-aligned text makes it look different to the others
 252 Feb 14 18:26:09 <calum>	lmanul: oh yeah... good point
 253 Feb 14 18:26:23 <lmanul>	:)
 254 Feb 14 18:26:43 <calum>	lmanul: I guess it's because the new user needs to input their password, so technically speaking it's probably correct...
 255 Feb 14 18:26:52 <lmanul>	Ah, right
 256 Feb 14 18:26:53 <mccann>	the ellipsis was from mpt - i think because many times this sends you to gdm for more input
 257 Feb 14 18:27:36 <calum>	yeah... I agree it's probably right, does just look slightly wrong at first :)
 258 Feb 14 18:29:11 <mccann>	remind me what we concluded for the cancel icon?
 259 Feb 14 18:29:38 <calum>	mccann: I think we should just leave things as they are wrt button icons
 260 Feb 14 18:29:46 <calum>	so, Cancel icon yes, other buttons no\
 261 Feb 14 18:29:54 <mccann>	gotcha
 262 Feb 14 18:31:26 <calum>	right, I think I'm done then... feel free to carry on :)
 263 Feb 14 18:31:41 <calum>	mccann: do you want me to send you a copy of the log, or do you have everything?
 264 Feb 14 18:31:42 <mccann>	thanks a lot calum
 265 Feb 14 18:31:42 <lmanul>	Gotta go too, bye everyone :)
 266 Feb 14 18:32:00 <joachim>	bye
 267 Feb 14 18:32:09 *	lmanul (~manu@82.239.58.38) has left #ui-review
 268 Feb 14 18:32:35 <mccann>	calum: i have a copy thanks
 269 Feb 14 18:32:40 <calum>	cool...
 270 Feb 14 18:33:16 <mccann>	does anyone want me to stick around?
 271 Feb 14 18:35:03 <joachim>	can I ask you a few questions about docs?
 272 Feb 14 18:35:09 <mccann>	hey, sure
 273 Feb 14 18:35:13 *	You are now known as calAWAY
 274 Feb 14 18:35:31 <mccann>	just one sec, brb
 275 Feb 14 18:37:56 <mccann>	ok, back sorry
 276 Feb 14 18:38:00 <joachim>	np
 277 Feb 14 18:38:32 <joachim>	today's UI changes we discussed - that's for 2.14?
 278 Feb 14 18:39:52 <mccann>	yeah, technically I'm not supposed to but since this button was there up until recently i think it is ok
 279 Feb 14 18:40:13 <joachim>	could you send me a screenshot when it's done?
 280 Feb 14 18:40:15 <mccann>	ironically, i removed the button not long ago because it was unused
 281 Feb 14 18:40:32 <mccann>	oh, i thought you meant the help button
 282 Feb 14 18:40:54 <mccann>	right, the other changes we discussed today I'm going to try to get done also
 283 Feb 14 18:40:57 <joachim>	ok
 284 Feb 14 18:41:03 <joachim>	but there's no huge changes anyway
 285 Feb 14 18:41:09 <joachim>	at least from the user's POV
 286 Feb 14 18:41:23 <mccann>	i've delayed making a 2.13.92 release for this reason
 287 Feb 14 18:41:33 <joachim>	what apps use the idle time setting?
 288 Feb 14 18:41:35 <mccann>	I'd like to try to get the changes in today or tomorrow
 289 Feb 14 18:41:51 <mccann>	currently, gnome-power-manager relies on it
 290 Feb 14 18:42:03 <joachim>	what's that?
 291 Feb 14 18:42:09 <mccann>	and gnome-xchat or something uses it for away status
 292 Feb 14 18:42:21 <mccann>	gnome-power-manager?
 293 Feb 14 18:42:37 <joachim>	it's a daemon?
 294 Feb 14 18:42:43 <joachim>	so not something the user knows exists
 295 Feb 14 18:43:04 <mccann>	it has a preferences dialog tho
 296 Feb 14 18:43:31 <joachim>	you mean a capplet?
 297 Feb 14 18:43:35 <mccann>	yes
 298 Feb 14 18:43:39 <mccann>	http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnome-power-manager/
 299 Feb 14 18:44:14 <joachim>	I'm using a VM of 2.13.90, and not all the capplets are in
 300 Feb 14 18:45:05 <joachim>	hmm something else that's not in the user guide
 301 Feb 14 18:45:27 <mccann>	well it was recently decided that g-p-m would not be an official part of 2.14 tho
 302 Feb 14 18:45:35 <joachim>	does the gpm prefs dialog have help?
 303 Feb 14 18:45:40 <mccann>	yes
 304 Feb 14 18:45:51 <joachim>	oh. in that case it's not for the UG
 305 Feb 14 18:46:11 <mccann>	ok
 306 Feb 14 18:46:28 <joachim>	is gnome-xchat in 2.14?
 307 Feb 14 18:46:32 *	Disconnected ().
 308 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 14 18:46:32 2006