**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 17 08:51:49 2001 08:51:49 --> auspex (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #usability 08:51:49 --- Topic for #usability is Meeting Friday, August 17 @ 1700 UTC (1:00p.m. US/Eastern / 10:00 a.m. US/Pacific) 08:51:49 --- Topic for #usability set by Darksheer at Thu Aug 16 15:05:18 08:51:59 --- Scrambler gives channel operator status to auspex 08:52:29 <auspex> As I feared, I only have time for a 3hr. nap. 08:52:35 --- auspex is now known as auspexZzz 09:05:15 --> chrisime (~email@example.com) has joined #usability 09:22:02 --> elements (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #usability 09:22:31 <-- elements (email@example.com) has left #usability 09:53:46 --- chrisime is now known as chrisJAVA 10:01:30 <-- mpt has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:17:12 --> iDek (~firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #usability 10:17:27 --- Scrambler gives channel operator status to iDek 10:18:26 <-- iDek has quit (Remote closed the connection) 10:25:54 <-- chrisJAVA has quit (loosing power -- cya) 10:50:24 --> kevinv (~email@example.com) has joined #usability 11:01:32 --> epk (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #usability 11:08:34 --> iDek (~email@example.com) has joined #usability 11:08:46 --- Scrambler gives channel operator status to iDek 11:11:34 <-- epk has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) 11:15:47 --- nils is now known as nilscoffe 11:16:12 --- nilscoffe is now known as nilsaway 11:31:34 --> erikp (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #usability 11:34:34 --> UnNamed (500@296-MADR-XL4.libre.retevision.es) has joined #usability 11:37:35 <-- UnNamed has quit (ISP or TelCo nuked the line again, probably) 11:37:44 --> UnNamed (500@96-MAD2-X26.libre.retevision.es) has joined #usability 11:41:40 <-- erikp has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) 11:47:10 --> nils (email@example.com) has joined #usability 11:49:54 --> adam_ (~Snak@ip184.c205.blk3.bel.nwlink.com) has joined #usability 11:50:52 --> erikp (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #usability 11:52:04 <-- nilsaway has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) 11:52:16 --- adam_ is now known as adam_AFK 11:52:47 --- calum is now known as calum_AFK 11:55:56 <erikp> What's AFK? 11:56:06 <iDek> away from keyboard 11:56:14 <erikp> ah. :) 11:57:00 --- DarkAWAY is now known as Darksheer 11:57:16 --- iDek gives channel operator status to adam_AFK 11:57:25 --- iDek gives channel operator status to nils 11:57:31 --> snickell (~snickell@myth4.Stanford.EDU) has joined #usability 11:57:46 --- snickell is now known as seth 11:58:02 --- Darksheer gives channel operator status to seth 11:58:42 --- calum_AFK is now known as calum 11:58:53 --- adam_AFK is now known as adam_ 11:59:23 --- seth has changed the topic to: http://www.stanford.edu/~snickell/agenda.html 11:59:32 --- seth has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda: http://www.stanford.edu/~snickell/agenda.html 12:00:12 <seth> Please read the agenda and tell me if you have anything you want to add to it. 12:00:26 --> sander (~sv117949@charon.Sun.COM) has joined #usability 12:00:29 <sander> hi all 12:00:35 <iDek> seth: Graphic Design and Icons? 12:00:36 --- Scrambler gives channel operator status to sander 12:00:38 <iDek> hi sander 12:00:40 --- iDek is now known as Dekar 12:00:48 <sander> hi iDek 12:01:22 * seth wonders if somebody from mtn view is going to show or if we should just start 12:01:36 <Dekar> we're having a meeting now? 12:01:48 <nils> seth: just start 12:02:02 <seth> Dekar: yes 12:02:08 * Dekar had no clue... 12:02:10 <seth> Dekar: 1706UTC :-) 12:02:26 <Darksheer> seth: I'm sure we all have logging turned on, and anyone who isn't here can be filled in easy enough 12:02:26 <seth> hmmm.... I hope my message to usability@ actually went through (!!!) 12:02:32 <Dekar> seth: It did 12:02:48 <Dekar> seth: I just hadn't checked that mailing list folder yesterday 12:02:51 <Dekar> my fault 12:02:54 <seth> Yeah, if somebody would be so good as to log this with date stamps and such that would be useful 12:03:00 <seth> Oh, it was very short notice 12:03:03 <seth> OK...lets get to work 12:03:07 <Dekar> I think I am 12:03:12 <seth> First item on the agenda... 12:03:15 <seth> The next meeting time 12:03:18 <seth> Actuall 12:03:19 <seth> y 12:03:26 <seth> Lets have additions to the agenda first 12:03:33 <seth> Does anyone have something they want to add to the agenda? 12:03:57 <seth> We're a smaller group today, so we probably won't have as much trouble with side conversations, but anything you want to talk about really should be on the agenda 12:04:50 <seth> ok...i'll take that as a no :) 12:05:09 --> UnNamed_ (500@96-MADR-X55.libre.retevision.es) has joined #usability 12:05:10 <seth> Lets skip next meeting time and get back to it, since I think that's affected by setting deadlines for must-fixi 12:05:28 <seth> We need to get all the must-fix slots adequately filled 12:05:34 <seth> So lets just go down the list 12:05:43 <Dekar> I think half the people who might want to object to the meeting time aren't here anyway ;) 12:05:47 <seth> For menus and applications right now we have Nils & Kevin 12:05:51 <seth> Dekar: yeah, I know. ironic 12:06:21 <seth> Given that nils already has a lot of work put in to this area I suspect that will be plenty 12:06:39 <seth> Anyone particularly want to be involved with that? 12:07:07 <seth> alright... 12:07:09 <Darksheer> I tend to think that's one of those areas that very easily discussed via the mailing list. 12:07:17 <erikp> yeah 12:07:26 <seth> 2) Nautilus where we currently have Brian Crescimanno signed up 12:07:29 <Darksheer> So, I think that any time anyone has input for them, it's easy enough for us to get those ideas heard, and discussed. 12:07:34 <erikp> one question: when is the deadline for these lists? 12:07:38 <seth> Darksheer: sounds reasonable 12:07:44 <Darksheer> erikp: we'll get to that. 12:07:51 <seth> erikp: Do you need that discussed before signing on? 12:07:56 <erikp> Well 12:08:06 <erikp> I can't really help with anything for the next two weeks 12:08:15 <seth> ok 12:08:25 <erikp> so if the deadline is in 3 weeks, i'm kind of useless. :) 12:08:30 <seth> We can touch on that briefly... 12:08:42 <-- UnNamed has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 12:08:44 <seth> My suspicion is that we're going to want to push this faster than 3 weeks since we need to start getting changes in place 12:08:54 <seth> Any contrary opinions? 12:09:00 <Darksheer> seth: agreed 12:09:06 <adam_> Darksheer: by "the mailing list", do you mean email@example.com? 12:09:16 <Darksheer> adam_: indeed. 12:09:27 <Darksheer> adam_: sorry, should have specified. 12:09:28 <adam_> Darksheer: cool, just wanted to clarify. 12:09:29 <seth> erikp: Don't worry, we'll have plenty of work after this too :-) This is just identifying bugs that need to be fixed, not deciding how to fix them 12:09:32 <adam_> no problem :) 12:09:42 <seth> OK, so on to slot #2 12:09:50 <seth> We currently have Brian signed up for Nautilus 12:09:58 <seth> I suspect we need one more person in this slot 12:10:09 <Darksheer> A couple of people have e-mailed me directly about helping with the testing. 12:10:10 <seth> I'm available as a resource, but I've already had my turn at Nautilus ;-) 12:10:13 <seth> Darksheer: that's great 12:10:20 <seth> Darksheer: So you think you have enough people? 12:10:21 <Darksheer> But... 12:10:36 <Darksheer> seth: not as of yet...I think there are 3 total at the moment...I'd like probably 2 more. 12:10:53 <seth> Darksheer: I suspect that's enough to get started. People can join in as we balance out the workload 12:11:16 <Darksheer> seth: true...unfortunately, I think erikp here was one of the people who had e-mailed me. 12:11:24 <seth> Darksheer: grin 12:11:28 <Darksheer> seth: so I think it's probably down to 2, which is enough to get started of course.... 12:11:31 <Darksheer> Anyway... 12:11:36 <Dekar> For what, identifying problems in nautilus? 12:11:38 <seth> Darksheer: I was expecting two people per point, in general, so you're probably ok 12:11:39 <Darksheer> let me give everyone a general idea of what's going to be going on the nautilus department. 12:11:49 <Dekar> ok 12:11:50 <seth> Dekar: Identifying the few biggest problems in Nautilus 12:12:01 <seth> Darksheer: Lets save that for the reports section 12:12:15 <Darksheer> seth: sure thing. 12:12:23 <seth> 3) Control Center is right now woefully understaffed 12:12:32 <seth> It has me right now 12:12:39 <seth> We need another one or two people 12:12:56 <seth> It sounds like somebody from Sun might be interested in working on this... 12:12:58 <Dekar> I know of some stupid problems in nautilus, I suppose I could possibly sign up 12:13:03 <seth> nils: Do you have any feedback on that? 12:13:06 <seth> Dekar: great 12:13:18 <nils> seth: if you help me get it (them) going i'll help you on CC 12:13:28 <seth> nils: ok, that's good 12:13:46 <seth> nils: I think Suz was also interested, though I guess its unclear who/what is going to be involved with GNOME at this point 12:14:19 <nils> i'll talk to suz offline 12:14:22 <seth> cool 12:14:32 <seth> So we have Seth & Nils on CC right now 12:14:52 <seth> On Nautilus we have Darksheer, Dekar...and you said there was somebody else? 12:15:08 <Darksheer> seth: yes, let me get the name real quick. 12:15:37 <Darksheer> seth: martin coxall 12:15:51 <seth> OK, now Evolution 12:16:07 <seth> Which brings up a seperate issue we may need to add to the bottom of the agenda, getting Ximian representation 12:16:25 <seth> I think we should get somebody from here signed up on Evolution nonetheless 12:16:39 --> iDek (~firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #usability 12:16:47 <seth> Anyone want to volunteer? 12:16:52 --- Scrambler gives channel operator status to iDek 12:17:05 <seth> the gallery is silent :-) 12:17:10 <Dekar> Not me! 12:17:11 <Darksheer> seth: I'd be happy to help, but unfortunately, I'm not the biggeset "groupware" user out there, and Evolution is basically an e-mail client for me. 12:17:18 <seth> Darksheer: yes, me too 12:17:28 * iDek doesn't use evolution at all, so he would be the last choice ;) 12:17:29 <seth> Though that's probably its most important purpose 12:17:39 <seth> iDek: that might be good, actually 12:17:55 <seth> OK, so lets find somebody who uses groupware to get involved with this 12:18:04 <seth> That will be an action item "Find somebody to deal with Evolution" 12:18:13 <seth> 5) Default GTK and Windowmanager theme 12:18:27 <seth> UnNamed_ has volunteered, but I am concerned about that for the same reasons I'm not handling Nautilus 12:18:36 <seth> UnNamed_: comments? 12:19:07 <UnNamed_> seth: what about Nautilus? 12:19:09 <iDek> seth: what reason is that again? 12:20:05 <seth> I'm not doing Nautilus because I have too much attachment to it 12:20:13 <iDek> ahh 12:20:26 <seth> Its not possible for me to look at Nautilus with a blank slate 12:20:28 <iDek> I suppose I could do default GTK and WM theme. 12:20:42 <iDek> I would be glad to, actually 12:21:09 <erikp> I was thinking... it might be good to have some theme guidelines too 12:21:13 <seth> UnNamed_: Would it be OK with you to arrange it the same way as with Nautilus... Dekar and somebody else do the list using you as the expert resource? 12:21:15 <Darksheer> seth: to be fair, I think anyone who is going to look at gtk / wm themes is going to be in some way biased. 12:21:19 <iDek> erikp: theme guidelines? 12:21:20 <erikp> button placement, minimum size, contrast, etc... 12:21:21 <seth> Darksheer: yes 12:21:34 <iDek> oh. 12:21:56 <seth> erikp: That's a good idea 12:21:56 <erikp> you can't say "click the X in the top right corner" 12:22:04 <erikp> because it might be a bomb in the top left corner or something 12:22:31 <seth> adam_: Would the HIG be able to handle this? 12:22:42 <seth> Or is this something we need accomplished pre-GNOME2 ? 12:23:03 <iDek> I can come up with a draft of how window frames should behave 12:23:04 <seth> It sounds like it may fall under the auspices of the HIG 12:23:10 <iDek> It shouldn't take all that long for at least some of the basic things 12:23:14 <calum> I'd say it's not a HIG thing, myself, the HIG is really for applications... 12:23:14 <adam_> seth: I'd think this is outside the scope of the mini-Guidelines 12:23:18 * seth pokes UnNamed_ 12:23:19 <iDek> especially since I already have this all in my mind of how it should work :-) 12:23:24 <seth> calum: alright 12:23:44 <adam_> calum: well, I'm not sure of that, but it definitely falls outside the scope of the version we're working on now 12:23:57 <adam_> I think there could be room for it in the "long" version if such a thing ever exists 12:24:05 <seth> iDek: OK, can you please formulate ideas on this and we'll address it and perhaps establish a group of people to work on this at the next meeting? 12:24:28 <erikp> Perhaps a basic something about where the buttons need to be and how they need to behave? 12:24:31 <seth> This is an interesting timeframe to work on it because there aren't very many GTK2 themes right now 12:24:32 <iDek> seth: alright...though I basically already know how I think they should work 12:24:32 <iDek> right 12:24:45 <seth> iDek: now now, lets reduce our preconceptions ;-) 12:24:47 <iDek> I'm less certain about GTK themes - what do we need to do there? 12:24:50 --> greg (~email@example.com) has joined #usability 12:25:05 <seth> iDek: Lets address this later, I'll leave you to fume about it :-) 12:25:10 <iDek> heh 12:25:11 <greg> Anybody familiar with our "designing for disabilities" page? 12:25:21 <seth> greg: (pst, we're in a meeting) 12:25:39 <seth> I'm not hearing a decision on #5 12:25:43 <greg> seth: eep, sorry, I'll spam you personally then. 12:26:07 <seth> I think we may have lost UnNamed_ :-( 12:26:14 <seth> Lets move on 12:26:18 <seth> 6) Logging out and in 12:26:27 <seth> kevinv: you're signed up for this right now 12:26:35 <kevinv> seth: pretty much have this done right now 12:26:52 <seth> kevinv: ok, it seems potentially more managable by one person than the others 12:27:03 <kevinv> seth: yah it's not too large 12:27:20 <seth> So we'll leave that with kevinv failing anyone else joining him 12:27:36 <seth> next area...Graphic design and icons 12:27:55 * Darksheer runs 12:28:05 <iDek> ok... 12:28:09 <seth> nils: Just to be clear, this point is dealing with evaluating the existing icons, right? 12:28:14 <-- greg (~firstname.lastname@example.org) has left #usability 12:28:29 <nils> that's the intent 12:28:32 <erikp> Sun's user test hits a lot of the issues with that 12:28:51 <-- UnNamed_ has quit (Read error: 73 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:29:04 <nils> evo, nauti, cc, panel, etc 12:29:16 <seth> Yes, unfortunately there are so many icons its impossible for the formal user testing to address them all yet 12:29:19 --> UnNamed_ (500@39-MADR-X23.libre.retevision.es) has joined #usability 12:29:26 <seth> But some of them certainely seem clearly problematic 12:29:28 <seth> UnNamed_: with us? 12:30:28 <seth> I think the best approach for this one is to take the data from the Sun report, and to combine that with a look at every GNOME icon in the pixmaps dir 12:30:47 <seth> And just create an ordered list of icons in terms of their clarity 12:31:00 <seth> If there are no volunteers I would be happy to work on this 12:31:08 <-- UnNamed_ has quit (Read error: 73 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:31:09 <Darksheer> seth: I'll help you out with it. 12:31:25 --> UnNamed (500@14-MAD2-X34.libre.retevision.es) has joined #usability 12:31:39 <calum> seth: It's not just clarity, it's consistency, internationalization issues etc. as well... 12:31:47 <seth> calum: yes, good point 12:31:55 <seth> calum: Do you want to pitch in here? 12:32:03 <calum> seth: For example, the underside of the foot is considered distasteful in some countries, which puts the GNOME logo at a distinct disadvantage... 12:32:07 <Darksheer> indeed...the idea is to make all the icons ubiquitous 12:32:29 <seth> calum: Well...that one would be very difficult to change ;-) 12:32:42 <nils> seth: no body parts 12:32:47 <seth> nils: yes 12:33:07 <calum> seth: Yes, I can probably help out a bit, although I'm not awash with free time at the moment :) 12:33:13 <seth> calum: right 12:33:24 <seth> I think this item in particular can use spare man-hours from almost anyone 12:33:30 <seth> I'll setup a simple online icon ranking system 12:33:51 <seth> 8) Feedback 12:34:10 <seth> nils: I thought there was somebody at Sun dealing with the engineering aspect of application feedback, right? 12:34:52 <nils> you mean the app launching stuff from the panel 12:35:01 <calum> Well, mary was working on galf, yes... I suspect she won't have any more time to work on it now, though... 12:36:24 <nils> well we could put that part under 1) 12:36:45 <seth> nils: ok 12:36:45 <nils> but to go through each and every app is a big task 12:36:50 <seth> nils: yes 12:37:02 <nils> maybe post 2.0? 12:37:08 <seth> The problem is identifying critical feedback issues 12:37:16 <seth> Right now application launching is the only one I know of 12:37:18 <iDek> KDE has a taskbar entry for apps which are launching (everybody's seen this by now...) - it also has the icon of the app launching near the cursor and somewhat animated 12:37:20 <seth> And maybe Nautilus 12:37:34 <iDek> seth: Well, throughout GNOME apps there are times when you get *no* feedback 12:37:37 <seth> iDek: I suspect galf will give us this 12:37:43 <iDek> Something just doesn't do anything and you don't know why 12:37:46 <calum> Heard mucho complaints about Evo's feedback when sending/receiving mail etc, too 12:37:52 <seth> iDek: The question is...is it *critical* 12:37:59 <seth> calum: It improved a lot in the past 1.5 weeks 12:38:00 <iDek> though the only examples I can think of right now are not core GNOME apps, they're 3rd party 12:38:04 <seth> calum: Much better now 12:38:15 <seth> OK, so lets punt on feedback 12:38:24 <-- UnNamed has quit (ISP or TelCo nuked the line again, probably) 12:38:24 <seth> Sans galf which we need to make sure gets well integrated 12:38:34 <sander> iDek: well, the set of core apps for gnome2 isn't final yet 12:38:34 --> UnNamed (500@373-MADR-XL4.libre.retevision.es) has joined #usability 12:38:42 <calum> accessibility-related feedback issues might be important... 12:38:56 <seth> calum: Can you be more detailed? 12:39:03 <iDek> seth: We need to make sure it works well too - xalf was a disaster 12:39:17 <calum> e.g. there needs to be a global desktop setting that lets you specify whether you want the standard system beep to be a flash or something instead, if you're deaf... 12:39:38 <calum> or your soundcard doesn't work :) 12:39:52 <adam_> seth: at a minimum, btw, there will be a little note on feedback as a usability principle in the HIG 12:40:05 <adam_> although it didn't make the cut as a full section for the mini-guidelines 12:40:24 <calum> seth: But maybe that's something the accessibility team ought to address, rather than the usability team... 12:40:36 --> UnNamed_ (500@159-MADR-X47.libre.retevision.es) has joined #usability 12:40:42 <seth> adam_: definitely 12:40:48 <adam_> calum: I think feedback in general is definitely a usability issue 12:40:51 <-- UnNamed has quit (ISP or TelCo nuked the line again, probably) 12:41:00 <adam_> calum: the beep-vs-flash thing is more accessibility though 12:41:02 <seth> adam_: The feedback Calum is talking about is an accessibility issue, in this case 12:41:08 <adam_> right 12:41:22 <seth> OK, lets punt on that and move on to "deadlines" 12:41:46 <seth> Since pretty much everyone on the must-fix list is represented here, I think we can just make a firm decision on this 12:41:56 <seth> How quickly do people feel they can be done (without sacrificing quality) 12:42:30 <nils> what's the deadline for usability bug fixes? 12:42:42 <seth> Yes, maybe we should reverse the order of these two 12:42:48 <iDek> seth: It really depends 12:42:50 <seth> sander: What are our target milestones for usability? 12:42:56 <iDek> seth: on how much stuff we want to cover :-) 12:42:57 <seth> sander: And what are their corresponding dates currently 12:43:14 <seth> Remember that listing these problems is only part of the work, somebody needs to fix them 12:43:23 <seth> This list can't be too long or it won't feasibly happen 12:43:29 <seth> The critical element here is prioritization 12:44:24 <seth> OK, failing a response I'm going to tenatively say that people should post a "rough draft" in 1.5 weeks to the mailing list 12:44:40 <seth> We can discuss the issues on the list, and finalize it in the next meeting (~2 weeks) 12:44:42 <Darksheer> I was going to comment that 1 week from Monday might be a good date. 12:44:44 <sander> seth: the same as in the mail I sent you still. I would like UI "frozen" by beta1 12:45:07 <Darksheer> That puts 2 weekends between now and the date for drafts of the must-fix lists... 12:45:32 <seth> sander: We mean the "Must fix" UI bugs...we're still frozen on beta1 for that?!? 12:45:34 <Darksheer> (for those of us that have a first week of school coming up, this will ensure our ability to take care of our assigned tasks) 12:46:32 <sander> seth: no, that's when the only usability approved bugfixes to UI period starts 12:46:42 <erikp> irony: not being at school is the reason I can't help. :) 12:46:44 <seth> sander: ah, ok 12:46:48 <sander> seth: iirc 12:47:08 <seth> sander: its actually good that application developers have to UI freeze before us, since it means we can really observe their applications in their "final states" 12:47:24 <seth> OK... 12:47:40 <seth> Lets run with the 1.5 weeks post to mailing list, 2 weeks or next meeting after that finalize 12:47:52 <seth> I'll send out a reminder befor ethe 1.5 weeks 12:48:06 <seth> I encourage people to get together in a group where there are multiple people working 12:48:26 <seth> Objections? 12:48:45 <iDek> sounds okay 12:48:48 <erikp> can someone post the list of must-fix people w/ emails to usability@ so people can send them suggestions for bugs? 12:48:56 <seth> erikp: yes 12:48:59 <iDek> good thought. 12:49:06 <seth> erikp: I'll send out an end of meeting report to the list, which should include thta 12:49:16 <erikp> k 12:49:38 <seth> adam_/calum: Could one of you give us a brief report of how the HIG is progressing? 12:49:50 <adam_> sure 12:50:23 <adam_> basically, we now have an outline of topics, volunteers to write most of the content, and a basic idea of the style in which the content will be written 12:51:07 <adam_> we also have a calendar, which has a draft version for HIG-team comments on 28 Sept., a draft for wider comment on 26 October, and a final version on 30 November 12:51:29 <calum> St.Andrew's Day :) 12:51:50 <adam_> calum: which is St. Andrew's Day? :) 12:51:57 <calum> November 30th... 12:52:03 <adam_> calum: ah, cool 12:52:23 <seth> Excellent 12:52:32 <adam_> anyway, I'm hoping to have volunteers for all the content by Monday, then we start writing 12:52:54 <adam_> and also hopefully people will be committing to CVS so that comments can be made before the "official" comment period; we'll see how that works 12:52:58 <seth> adam_: Are you guys doing fine in terms of number of people? 12:53:10 <adam_> seth: at the moment, I think so 12:53:15 <seth> excellent 12:53:25 <calum> Depends how much we argue, and how much we write :) 12:53:30 <seth> indeed 12:53:35 <adam_> seth: we're a small enough group so that we can make decisions without huge arguments, but so far it looks like we have enough people to write everything we agreed to write 12:53:45 <adam_> s/can make/have been able to make/ :) 12:54:03 <seth> Darksheer: You want to give us your current thoughts on nautilus testing? 12:54:13 <adam_> one last thing: 12:54:21 <Darksheer> certainly..after adam_ finishes 12:54:37 <adam_> we'll probably need to do a quick review in about two weeks to see how much content we have to see if we need to drag one or two more people in 12:54:57 <adam_> but otherwise we should be okay 12:55:09 <adam_> Darksheer: thanks, please go ahead :) 12:55:33 <seth> adam_: cool 12:55:49 <Darksheer> The way I see it, Nautilus is one of the largest, and possibly the most important application on the GNOME platform... 12:56:05 <seth> (second maybe to the panel) 12:56:19 <iDek> heh. :) 12:56:21 <nils> and maybe the weather applet 12:56:29 <seth> nils: What about wanda? 12:56:39 <iDek> seth: which one? 12:56:41 <Darksheer> And being that it is one application that no matter who a user is (agreed on the panel) they are going to interact with Nautilus in some way. 12:57:11 <seth> Well, the 31337 h4><0rz interaction will be to turn it off, I think ;-) 12:57:36 <iDek> seth: I guess jrb and chema aren't 31337 then 12:57:47 <Darksheer> I think it might be reasonable for more than just one or two peopole to have a look for "must fix" bugs...because what is "must fix" to some people might be unimportant to another group. 12:57:56 <iDek> Good point. 12:58:15 <Darksheer> So, my plan is, by Sunday afternoon sometime to be sending out a "testing criteria" sheet for Nautilus. 12:58:31 <Darksheer> I will post it to the list, it is not manditory or anything...but I'd like as many of us as possible to fill it out. 12:59:03 <Darksheer> I imagine that it will take anywhere from 15 minutes to 45 minutes to finish depending on how familiar with Nautilus you are, and how thorough you are in testing. 12:59:35 <seth> Darksheer: that sounds like a good idea 12:59:35 <iDek> ok 12:59:41 <Darksheer> Everyone is, of course, welcome to do additional testing and make additional suggestions... 12:59:57 <Darksheer> ...especially those people who have signed up formally to help with the Nautilus testing. 13:00:03 <nils> Darksheer: cool 13:00:13 <Darksheer> But I think the more people that can fill out the fairly short usability test for Nautilus, the better. 13:00:15 <seth> Actually, that would be an interesting idea for every GNOME application 13:00:33 <Darksheer> seth: agreed, but I don't know if we have time to hit many before GNOME2 13:00:49 <seth> If we had usability tests published in a standard online place and instructions on performing basic usability testing we could try to encourage people to try a few 13:01:07 <seth> I don't know if the data we'd get out would always be useful, but it might give people a better awareness of usability 13:01:23 <Darksheer> seth: true, true...but again, is that feasable for pre-GNOME2? 13:01:35 <seth> Darksheer: It just depends on us writing them up...so maybe 13:01:53 <seth> Darksheer: I don't intend to test everything, its just a way to try and get more people involved in a non-commital way 13:02:05 <Darksheer> seth: I'm not necessarily suggesting that it isn't...just trying to ensure that if we want to do this, we can get it done. 13:02:15 <Darksheer> seth: understandable 13:02:22 <iDek> The largest problem I have with nautilus is the preferences 13:02:24 <iDek> They are insane 13:02:27 <Darksheer> seth: tell me, does http://usability.gnome.org/ exist? 13:02:33 <seth> Darksheer: sort of 13:02:37 <sander> Darksheer: a potential problem is people making non-trivial UI changes in apps on gnome 2 vs. as they were on gnome 1.4 13:02:39 <seth> Darksheer: it redirects to gup 13:02:43 <Darksheer> iDek: agreed, I'll be railing those in my report. 13:02:45 <iDek> It redirects to http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/ 13:02:47 <seth> Darksheer: Which is not really what I wanted, but such is life 13:03:06 <iDek> Darksheer: like setting fonts on many places, and having settings for non-smooth fonts...those should clearly just be the system font, IMO 13:03:07 <sander> Darksheer: so you probably need to get a buy-in of not doing that from the app author first 13:03:09 <seth> sander: I haven't seen *too* many people doing that 13:03:25 <seth> sander: I think most GNOME hackers just leave the UI alone once they've written it and just keep tacking things on 13:04:09 <seth> OK, any items I've forgetten? 13:04:18 <seth> ah, next meeting time 13:04:22 <seth> Tenatively two weeks from today 13:04:29 <-- erikp has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) 13:04:31 <seth> I'll ask on the mailing list to make sure this time was OK 13:04:36 <Darksheer> a quick comment on that... 13:04:37 <iDek> I'm not sure... 13:04:52 <Darksheer> Today was fine for me, but depending on times, I might not be able to attend meetings during the week due to class. 13:05:00 <Darksheer> (I don't really feel like failing out of college) 13:05:02 <iDek> If we're supposed to turn in drafts of our projects in 1.5 weeks, wouldn't it make sense to have the next meeting near then? 13:05:08 <seth> Darksheer: yes, that will be a problem for me too 13:05:22 <kevinv> seth: I have the same problems as Darksheer 13:05:22 <iDek> hrm, I guess then people'd have a few days to read it though 13:05:28 <seth> iDek: Drafts in 1.5 weeks to the mailing list 13:05:30 <iDek> this time will be fine for me in two weeks 13:05:33 <seth> iDek: Finalization during the meeting in two weeks 13:05:39 <iDek> seth: ahh, ok 13:05:44 <Darksheer> seth: well...if we're going to shoot for meetings on fridays... 13:05:47 <seth> Is 2 weeks a problem for anyone re: school? 13:05:50 <iDek> I won't have any classes in two weeks 13:05:54 <iDek> (inbetween terms) 13:06:07 --> erikp (email@example.com) has joined #usability 13:06:24 <seth> OK, we'll start a mailing list thread about this 13:06:30 <seth> So I guess that's the end of the meeting :-) 13:06:32 <Darksheer> seth: yeah, let's do that.... 13:06:33 <seth> Thank you all for coming 13:06:50 <seth> If you weren't at the last meeting can you give us your name and e-mail address for the minutes? 13:07:15 <Darksheer> I'm sure you've got it already, but: Brian Crescimanno <firstname.lastname@example.org> 13:07:51 --- Scrambler gives channel operator status to kevinv 13:08:24 <erikp> Erik Pukinskis <email@example.com> 13:08:34 <seth> Somebody have a log of this they can e-mail me? 13:08:37 <seth> (firstname.lastname@example.org) 13:08:41 <iDek> seth: I think so 13:08:45 <iDek> unless x-chat totally borked it 13:08:46 --- UnNamed_ is now known as UnNamed 13:08:46 <-- UnNamed has quit (ISP or TelCo nuked the line again, probably) 13:08:59 --> UnNamed (500@167-MADR-X24.libre.retevision.es) has joined #usability 13:09:55 <iDek> hehe - time to pipe this to uniq, I have two copies of every line since iDek joined :/ 13:09:56 <seth> iDek: if you want to do minutes, that would be cool, or I'll do them when I get home today 13:10:02 <seth> lol 13:10:40 --- seth is now known as sethWork 13:10:46 <iDek> sethWork: See you. 13:10:58 <sethWork> later guys 13:11:22 <iDek> sethWork: Mailed you the log 13:11:24 * adam_ is off to the Seattle Center, whee! 13:11:26 <adam_> later all 13:11:30 <iDek> adam_: see you! 13:11:48 <-- adam_ has quit (lata) 13:12:25 <erikp> time for breakfast. later.
Attached FilesTo refer to attachments on a page, use attachment:filename, as shown below in the list of files. Do NOT use the URL of the [get] link, since this is subject to change and can break easily.
You are not allowed to attach a file to this page.