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   1 oct 10 00:16:56 <muelli>	So let's take off then.
   2 oct 10 00:16:59 <muelli>	I have set up a Gobby Server mafiasi.de so that everybody can see the record to actually see what the current point is. Also, one could see my notes if I take any ;-)
   3 oct 10 00:18:16 <jjardon>	muelli, cool entering now...
   4 oct 10 00:18:48 <muelli>	jjardon: :) I think it can be handy. Dunno yet though. Everybody is invited to join that of course :)
   5 oct 10 00:19:30 <muelli>	So the first point on the agenda is == New project: BugsquadGoals ==
   6 oct 10 00:20:14 <muelli>	I like the idea. I just can't spontanously think of any such small tasks. Does anybody have an idea?
   7 oct 10 00:20:38 <jjardon>	see the bottom of http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/BugDays
   8 oct 10 00:23:40 <jjardon>	I think is a great task for new contributions: easy and very focalized task
   9 oct 10 00:24:14 <muelli>	jjardon: like maintenance jobs?
  10 oct 10 00:25:09 <muelli>	so yeah. The goal of that would be to encourage new people to join the bugsquad, I'd say. And having easy tasks that need to be done is a good start. Like gnome-love bugs...
  11 oct 10 00:25:40 <hggdh>	on the other hand, the closing of bugs can create a huge backslash (as we have seen)... I am not sure beginners should tackle it
  12 oct 10 00:26:33 <muelli>	hm. Actually, new users wouldn't have bugzilla permissions right away *thinking*
  13 oct 10 00:27:11 <hggdh>	then a question: what permissions are give to a beginner?
  14 oct 10 00:27:17 <jjardon>	Maybe the second proposed bugsquadgoal is more apropiate?
  15 oct 10 00:27:28 <hggdh>	jjardon: +1
  16 oct 10 00:27:52 *	fabio se ha marchado (Saliendo)
  17 oct 10 00:28:13 <jjardon>	anyway, I think that bugsquadgoals would be useful for experimented bugsquaders too
  18 oct 10 00:28:43 <jjardon>	so we can mark us a clear objective for a month, for example
  19 oct 10 00:28:55 <hggdh>	er, What about setting bugs where a developer has acted (and accepted the bug) but the bug is still unconfirmed?
  20 oct 10 00:29:01 <muelli>	hggdh: good question. Maybe we have to distuingish. On the one hand we have brand new users who don't have permissions at all who maybe just stumbled across the Bugsquad page. OTOH there might new triagers who still don't feel comfortable doing stuff on the bugzilla.
  21 oct 10 00:29:21 <muelli>	hggdh: I'd say it's clearly a NEW then.
  22 oct 10 00:29:38 <hggdh>	so now I guess we could set it as a goal
  23 oct 10 00:30:50 <jjardon>	I like the idea to use NEW, but we should stablish a general and clear rule to know if we can change to NEW
  24 oct 10 00:30:55 <muelli>	hggdh: So add "Search for obviously confirmed, but still UNCONFIRMED bugs" to BugsSquadGoals?
  25 oct 10 00:31:18 <jjardon>	muelli, +1
  26 oct 10 00:31:25 <hggdh>	Yes. Then we can take them out of the bugsquad radar
  27 oct 10 00:31:33 <jjardon>	but, what is obviously confirmed?
  28 oct 10 00:31:43 <hggdh>	and put them squarely in the developers arena
  29 oct 10 00:32:11 <muelli>	jjardon: I don't know whether there is a sharp line. I feel it's kinda blurry. It's clearly a NEW if the maintainer writes "This is a bug which need to be fixed". And it's clearly not when the maintainer writes "I dunno yet, why should we doo $foo".
  30 oct 10 00:32:12 <hggdh>	IMHO, it is a bug that a dev has acted, and at no point stated it is *NOT* a valid issue.
  31 oct 10 00:32:46 <muelli>	hggdh: I'd say this includes too much. But I might have a solution to this problem.
  32 oct 10 00:33:10 <muelli>	Well, the problem being that someone, call her newbie, does things to the bugzilla that might upset some people.
  33 oct 10 00:33:49 <muelli>	So I think once we give away bugzilla CANEDIT permissions, the one who gave this permissions away should follow the person closely for a couple of, say, weeks.
  34 oct 10 00:34:21 <muelli>	Unfortunately I don't think there's a good way to do that. Although I have to admit that I haven't checked to current bugzilla yet. *blush*
  35 oct 10 00:34:22 <hggdh>	+1 -- I was going to suggest mentoring, but this is better -- and was/is done, already
  36 oct 10 00:34:28 <jjardon>	muelli, +1
  37 oct 10 00:34:35 <hggdh>	oh, there is a problem
  38 oct 10 00:34:43 <hggdh>	not many can give CANEDIT
  39 oct 10 00:34:56 <muelli>	hggdh: that could change :-)
  40 oct 10 00:35:02 <hggdh>	heh
  41 oct 10 00:35:30 <hggdh>	I think this is a good option. We will get a bit more of emails, but will be easier to follow the work on starters
  42 oct 10 00:35:32 <muelli>	Also, one could establish the policy that someone gives CANEDIT and a third one, an experienced triager, watches the person closely.
  43 oct 10 00:35:59 <hggdh>	we could, but this is bound to create problems
  44 oct 10 00:36:09 <hggdh>	we are forcing a third person into the action
  45 oct 10 00:36:38 <hggdh>	unless we create a group of volunteers
  46 oct 10 00:37:06 <muelli>	oh. hm. I didn't think of it this way. I though of it as we're discussing the mentoring once a month during a meeting or so. We could have a queue of people ready for mentoring incoming new triagers.
  47 oct 10 00:37:46 <muelli>	So you could say now that you have time for, say, 2 new people and someone who can give away CANEDIT informs both of you after permissions have been given away.
  48 oct 10 00:38:07 *	owen se ha marchado (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
  49 oct 10 00:38:14 <hggdh>	good enough
  50 oct 10 00:38:38 <jjardon>	Also, we can create a wiki page for new contributors with a list of people that have CANEDIT permissions, so new contributors can contect with them
  51 oct 10 00:39:44 <muelli>	Yep :)
  52 oct 10 00:39:51 <muelli>	"If you watch a user, it is as if you are standing in their shoes for the purposes of getting email. Email is sent or not according to your preferences for their relationship to the bug (e.g. Assignee)." that's clearly unfortunate. We want to get all the actions of the watched user but not our own of course. Is anybody really familiar with bugzilla internals? fredp? mkanat? owen?
  53 oct 10 00:40:27 <Susana_>	muelli: that's already what happened in the past, when you give permissions to someone you susbcribe to their changes
  54 oct 10 00:41:02 <Susana_>	i haven't done that in the new bugzilla, but it used to be possible (and easy)
  55 oct 10 00:41:11 <muelli>	Susana_: Yes I know. At least that's what's the supposed workflow is. And I think it's great :) But how would you watch a user properly?
  56 oct 10 00:41:56 <Susana_>	by looking at the emails you get
  57 oct 10 00:42:10 <Susana_>	:)
  58 oct 10 00:43:45 <hggdh>	well, there is a simple way to find out... one of us get in with a different email, and somebody else sets a watch on
  59 oct 10 00:43:59 <muelli>	Susana_:  :D I look at my emails 30 times a day and I don't automagically get every change you made to a bug.
  60 oct 10 00:44:36 <muelli>	k. So we can either investigate on that right now or find one, two people to do that for next month. I'm fine with both of these options :-)
  61 oct 10 00:45:39 <jjardon>	Where Can I put the list of users with CANEDIT permissions? http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/TriageGuide ?
  62 oct 10 00:46:37 <hggdh>	not with CANEDIT, but that can *set* CANEDIT
  63 oct 10 00:46:38 <muelli>	jjardon: good question. That's another point on the Agenda IIRC. I don't know. But I feel we should know about that..
  64 oct 10 00:47:25 <jjardon>	hggdh, oh yes, can set CANEDIT ;)
  65 oct 10 00:49:18 <hggdh>	let's put it as a to-do, and move on
  66 oct 10 00:49:24 *	wers (~allan@112.203.115.194) ha entrado en #bugs
  67 oct 10 00:49:39 <muelli>	k
  68 oct 10 00:50:28 <muelli>	hggdh: do you actually volunteer for that job? ^^ Note that this is just a question without the intent to put pressure on you.
  69 oct 10 00:51:37 <hggdh>	yes, I do, I see no problem with that. I already do that on Ubuntu
  70 oct 10 00:51:53 <jjardon>	anyway, I think we can set a BugsquadGoal to us, the bugsquad team
  71 oct 10 00:52:05 <jjardon>	one goal for month, for example
  72 oct 10 00:52:09 <Susana_>	muelli: you would get all my bug emails if you watched my address on bugzilla
  73 oct 10 00:53:38 <muelli>	Susana_: But the page https://bugzilla.gnome.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email reads: If you watch a user, it is as if you are standing in their shoes for the purposes of getting email. Email is sent or not according to your preferences for their relationship to the bug (e.g. Assignee). So I of course have not set to get email once I change something to a bug. So I won't get any email if my watchee changes something on a bug. Hav
  74 oct 10 00:53:38 <muelli>	en;t tried though. But hggdh does that until the next meeting :-)
  75 oct 10 00:53:48 <Susana_>	about the set canedit, usually people get that after having helped a few new triagers from what i've seen in this channel
  76 oct 10 00:54:16 <muelli>	so ACTION: hggdh to investigate on how to follow someone properly
  77 oct 10 00:54:41 *	muelli thinks of opening bugs for each ACTION since we have the new bugzilla module...
  78 oct 10 00:55:36 <jjardon>	muelli, good idea
  79 oct 10 00:55:48 <jjardon>	(use the new bugzilla module)
  80 oct 10 00:55:54 <muelli>	k. I'll do that in the meantime.
  81 oct 10 00:55:59 <hggdh>	muelli: only issue is I cannot give out CANEDIT
  82 oct 10 00:56:42 <muelli>	hggdh: uh, Why is that a problem?
  83 oct 10 00:57:49 <hggdh>	the easiest way to find out is to set a new account on b.g.o, and then play with it
  84 oct 10 00:58:08 <hggdh>	of course, there is always the RTFM thingy... ;-)
  85 oct 10 00:58:11 <muelli>	ah. get it -.-
  86 oct 10 00:58:42 <muelli>	hggdh: what's your bugzilla asdress?
  87 oct 10 00:59:22 *	DrBob se ha marchado (Leaving.)
  88 oct 10 00:59:30 <hggdh>	hggdh2 at gmail dot com, or hggdh2 at ubuntu dot com -- sorry do not really remember
  89 oct 10 00:59:56 <muelli>	gmail that is
  90 oct 10 01:00:01 <muelli>	k. will sort this out.
  91 oct 10 01:00:23 <hggdh>	heh. Thanks. the trouble with having very similar email addresses...
  92 oct 10 01:00:43 <muelli>	So we're in consent that having newbies editing bugs is not that much of a problem since the newbie will be followed closely...?
  93 oct 10 01:01:12 *	wers se ha marchado (Remote closed the connection)
  94 oct 10 01:01:49 <jjardon>	muelli, +1 from me
  95 oct 10 01:02:38 <Susana_>	muelli: i still don't understand one thing: what is going to change from today's process?
  96 oct 10 01:03:01 <muelli>	Susana_: not much I hope :)
  97 oct 10 01:03:05 <Susana_>	what are you proposing to change?
  98 oct 10 01:03:54 <muelli>	Susana_: hggdh just raised that it could be a problem to have official goals for newbies that involve closing bugs.
  99 oct 10 01:04:27 <muelli>	I just wanted to get straight that that is not much of a problem.
 100 oct 10 01:05:07 <hggdh>	given the backslash we usually have when we close them bugs
 101 oct 10 01:05:30 <hggdh>	we can weather it, but a beginner will most probably just skip ship
 102 oct 10 01:06:28 <muelli>	so do we have another ideas for beginners besides "to add new BugsquadGoal: setting bugs to NEW where a developer has acted (and accepted the bug) but the bug is still UNCONFIRMED"
 103 oct 10 01:07:15 <Susana_>	finding duplicates
 104 oct 10 01:07:22 <muelli>	good one
 105 oct 10 01:07:32 <hggdh>	yeah
 106 oct 10 01:07:33 <muelli>	not that easy though, I think
 107 oct 10 01:07:50 <Susana_>	i'd say all the tasks in the triage guide are good ;)
 108 oct 10 01:08:42 <jjardon>	and finding duplicates of bugs with a valid trace?
 109 oct 10 01:09:12 <jjardon>	I think there is a tool in bugzilla to automatically search for bugs with the same trace
 110 oct 10 01:09:45 <hggdh>	there was -- simplebugfinder
 111 oct 10 01:10:36 <muelli>	it's built in nowadays. It's not as handy I'd say though.
 112 oct 10 01:10:49 <hggdh>	no, you need to open a bug to check on it
 113 oct 10 01:13:33 <jjardon>	Should we create a new page for the BugsquadGoals? similar to http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals
 114 oct 10 01:14:43 <muelli>	hm. If it's for Newbies, I think I wouldn't call it BugsquadGoals.
 115 oct 10 01:15:04 <muelli>	I think it's not that inviting for beginners.
 116 oct 10 01:15:48 <jjardon>	GnomeGoals are for beginners ;)
 117 oct 10 01:16:35 <hggdh>	:-)
 118 oct 10 01:17:16 <muelli>	oh really? -.-
 119 oct 10 01:17:26 *	nxvl se ha marchado (leaving)
 120 oct 10 01:17:33 <Susana_>	jjardon: but goals are accomplished somewhere in time, triaging is never ending
 121 oct 10 01:17:34 <muelli>	well, yeah. What can I say? -.-
 122 oct 10 01:17:50 <muelli>	Susana_: but just because we're lacking manpower :D
 123 oct 10 01:18:06 <jjardon>	Also, we can make a list of bugsquadgoals for beginners and a list of bugsquad goals for more experienced triagers
 124 oct 10 01:18:13 <hggdh>	well. My goal is *not* fattening up. It is never-ending
 125 oct 10 01:18:42 <Susana_>	hehe
 126 oct 10 01:18:43 <hggdh>	starter tasks?
 127 oct 10 01:19:19 <muelli>	yep. sounds good.
 128 oct 10 01:19:29 <muelli>	Doesn't Ubuntu have such a thing?
 129 oct 10 01:19:46 <hggdh>	we have bugdays, and jams
 130 oct 10 01:20:16 <hggdh>	some bugdays are easy tasks (like yesterday), some are bad experiences...
 131 oct 10 01:20:39 <hggdh>	but we use to mark some bugs are bytesize, etc
 132 oct 10 01:21:07 <muelli>	hm. alright, so we currently lack a name for the BugsquadGoals, right?
 133 oct 10 01:21:29 <hggdh>	yes. Starter Actions?
 134 oct 10 01:22:57 <muelli>	yeah, sounds good. I don't care that much actually, although it's not unimportant to have an appealing name.. *shrug*.
 135 oct 10 01:23:28 <jjardon>	I like BugsquadGoals name (only my opinnion) ;)
 136 oct 10 01:25:46 <muelli>	hm jjardon . because of it's consistency with GnomeGoals?
 137 oct 10 01:25:57 <jjardon>	muelli, yeah
 138 oct 10 01:27:01 <Susana_>	fine for me
 139 oct 10 01:27:44 <muelli>	Hm. As Susana_ said, it's not that we have consistent goals either. GNOME Goals are probably measurable. Like you can see when Goal 1 is finished. But you'll never finish the goal "Set all Bugs to NEW". I mean you could of course, but tomorrow it'll be all new again..
 140 oct 10 01:27:57 <Susana_>	although i still think a goal achievement should be mesurable
 141 oct 10 01:28:00 *	mruiz (~mruiz@pc-53-86-161-190.cm.vtr.net) ha entrado en #bugs
 142 oct 10 01:28:06 <muelli>	Maybe it still makes sense. I mean I hunted down all NEEDINFO bugs older than 6 month or so.. Could be a perfect goal.
 143 oct 10 01:28:15 <Susana_>	yeah
 144 oct 10 01:28:58 <jjardon>	muelli, thar is the idea ;)
 145 oct 10 01:29:05 <muelli>	dunno. As I said, I don't really care and I wouldn't fight for it. Maybe we should come up with proper goals for next month and try to give it a name then...
 146 oct 10 01:29:48 <muelli>	We probably can't really take off until the following issue is properly resolved anyway.
 147 oct 10 01:30:52 <muelli>	Hm. No agreement on that either... ;-)
 148 oct 10 01:31:35 <hggdh>	muelli, I lost you
 149 oct 10 01:33:44 <muelli>	hggdh: I'm still here :-D I think the current problem is, how to name the newbies tasks. Either StarterTasks or BugsquadGoals, because it's the former might be more inviting but the latter more consistent...
 150 oct 10 01:34:36 <hggdh>	OK. One of the BugSquadGoals is to set up Starter Tasks
 151 oct 10 01:34:45 <hggdh>	there.
 152 oct 10 01:34:46 <muelli>	:D
 153 oct 10 01:34:52 <Susana_>	hehe
 154 oct 10 01:34:56 <hggdh>	we have a mensurable goal
 155 oct 10 01:34:58 *	Susana_ es ahora conocido como Susana
 156 oct 10 01:35:28 <muelli>	I think maybe we should have measurable goals. One could say to hunt down all Evolution pre 2.22 crashers and ask for new stacktraces or so...
 157 oct 10 01:35:29 <hggdh>	:-)
 158 oct 10 01:35:55 <jjardon>	muelli, +2 ;)
 159 oct 10 01:35:57 <muelli>	I might be a good thing for a newcomer to achieve^tm something.
 160 oct 10 01:36:01 <Susana>	muelli: +1
 161 oct 10 01:36:20 <hggdh>	we should, yes. We have to verify if we are accomplishing anything
 162 oct 10 01:36:53 <muelli>	wonderful. So we stick to BugsquadGoals with specific tasks and have the general ones sorted out into the TriageGuide?
 163 oct 10 01:37:13 <muelli>	Maybe in an own section? Like "What to do when you're bored?"?
 164 oct 10 01:37:30 <muelli>	E_OUTOFFOOD. brb.
 165 oct 10 01:38:59 <Susana>	so who wants to make a wiki page with the goals?
 166 oct 10 01:39:17 <hggdh>	jjardon? ;-)
 167 oct 10 01:39:40 <jjardon>	http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/BugsquadGoals
 168 oct 10 01:39:42 <jjardon>	:)
 169 oct 10 01:40:08 <hggdh>	this *was* fast!
 170 oct 10 01:40:23 <jjardon>	:)
 171 oct 10 01:40:55 <Susana>	jjardon: you're amazing :)
 172 oct 10 01:41:06 <hggdh>	the idea of revisiting old (now out-of-support) bugs and asking for update is a really nice one
 173 oct 10 01:41:41 <Susana>	yeah
 174 oct 10 01:41:45 <jjardon>	hggdh, Add to the wiki ;)
 175 oct 10 01:42:10 <Susana>	also triaging the bugs you reported
 176 oct 10 01:42:20 <jjardon>	in experienced bugsquaders, I'd say
 177 oct 10 01:43:11 <jjardon>	We can have two sections: a never-ending goals, and a month-special goal or something similar
 178 oct 10 01:45:07 <Susana>	jjardon: like focusing on one application?
 179 oct 10 01:45:18 <jjardon>	for example
 180 oct 10 01:45:21 <hggdh>	yes, good one.
 181 oct 10 01:45:22 <Susana>	ups product
 182 oct 10 01:46:01 <Susana>	sounds good
 183 oct 10 01:46:06 <jjardon>	we should ask the devels if they need help in a specific problem
 184 oct 10 01:46:31 <jjardon>	and we can focus in it for a month or until they was solved
 185 oct 10 01:46:49 <jjardon>	I updated the page to show an example
 186 oct 10 01:47:13 <hggdh>	we can try. But I am not willing to email g-devel asking for it. They bite back.
 187 oct 10 01:47:21 <muelli>	^^
 188 oct 10 01:48:50 <jjardon>	we should offer our help, nothing more ;)
 189 oct 10 01:49:18 <jjardon>	anyway we have our never-ending goals ;)
 190 oct 10 01:50:18 <hggdh>	hum. never-ending objectives? Although an objective also pretty much requires an end
 191 oct 10 01:50:19 <Susana>	yes when we announce the goals we can ask for suggestions for future goals...
 192 oct 10 01:50:52 <Susana>	should we move to the next topic?
 193 oct 10 01:50:57 <hggdh>	yes
 194 oct 10 01:50:59 <jjardon>	yes
 195 oct 10 01:52:14 *	muelli nods
 196 oct 10 01:52:23 <muelli>	But let me just ask how we remain with this topic.
 197 oct 10 01:52:47 <muelli>	Is it jjardon who sets up BugsquadGoals until the next meeting?
 198 oct 10 01:52:58 <muelli>	or just the page and we all think about some goals?
 199 oct 10 01:54:18 <jjardon>	the page is set with some goals, I think we can make an announcement to get more ideas from devels
 200 oct 10 01:55:22 <jjardon>	but we can start working with these goals
 201 oct 10 01:56:13 <Susana>	+1
 202 oct 10 01:56:23 <muelli>	Sounds good :) I'd wait with an announcement until we have this follower thing sorted out though. :) Okay, so on the next meeting we'll discuss how to announce and promote these goals...
 203 oct 10 01:57:49 <muelli>	Next point is ==  Report conclusions here: [[Bugsquad/DirectiveDiscussion]] == then.
 204 oct 10 01:58:15 <muelli>	What does this point actually mean? :) I mean is it just a general awareness thing or do we have to update it right now?
 205 oct 10 01:59:53 <muelli>	http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/DirectiveDiscussion that is
 206 oct 10 02:00:28 <jjardon>	I think that we can delete that page
 207 oct 10 02:00:47 <jjardon>	and merge the content to http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/TriageGuide
 208 oct 10 02:01:16 <hggdh>	perhaps a good and worthy goal would be to check the TriageGuide re. updates
 209 oct 10 02:03:15 <muelli>	hm.
 210 oct 10 02:03:29 *	awalton se ha marchado (Leaving)
 211 oct 10 02:03:35 <Susana>	yes that would is a good goal
 212 oct 10 02:03:41 <Susana>	*be
 213 oct 10 02:05:11 <muelli>	jjardon: Why would you deprecate that page in favour of the TriageGuide?
 214 oct 10 02:05:11 <Susana>	jjardon: can you add that goal to the list?
 215 oct 10 02:06:21 <jjardon>	muelli, because the info of that page is the same of Triageguide
 216 oct 10 02:07:50 <Susana>	muelli: in the triage guide it would be more visible
 217 oct 10 02:08:01 <muelli>	yeah, probably :)
 218 oct 10 02:08:19 <Susana>	and the page contains instructions on how to triage so I think it belongs in the guide yes
 219 oct 10 02:09:11 <jjardon>	I volunter to kill that page ;)
 220 oct 10 02:09:22 <muelli>	The intention of both pages were different though, I'd say. TriageGuide was supposed to be for Newbies whereas the DirectiveDiscussions are about policies to stick to. f.e. in case of misunderstandings...
 221 oct 10 02:10:07 <muelli>	but yeah, one could use TriageGuide for that as well. The Information will be a bit buried then though. Not that much of a problem.
 222 oct 10 02:10:32 <jjardon>	muelli, what is the difference between directive page and the diagram in Triageguide ? ;)
 223 oct 10 02:11:52 <muelli>	well jjardon. At least the intentions :-) In doubt, the DirectiveDiscussion would be kind of a rule to be judged about whereas TriageGuide is more a collection of useful hints.. But that's debatable of course.
 224 oct 10 02:12:12 <muelli>	Maybe adding a deprecated warning to that wikipage would be good, instead of killing it directly. You'll never know who bookmarked that page...
 225 oct 10 02:12:42 <jjardon>	makes sense
 226 oct 10 02:12:54 <Susana>	+1
 227 oct 10 02:13:04 <hggdh>	I agree -- a deprecated mark is better than removing the page
 228 oct 10 02:13:20 <mruiz>	+1
 229 oct 10 02:15:30 <muelli>	as jjardon already volunteered, let's put him in charge ;-)
 230 oct 10 02:15:42 <jjardon>	okis :)
 231 oct 10 02:15:52 <muelli>	ACTION: jjardon to mark DirectiveDiscussion as deprecated and link to TriageGuide
 232 oct 10 02:16:26 <muelli>	Anything else on updating DirectiveDiscussions?
 233 oct 10 02:16:35 <muelli>	i.e. any "rules" we want to write down?
 234 oct 10 02:16:40 <muelli>	or Policies?
 235 oct 10 02:17:34 <jjardon>	nope from me
 236 oct 10 02:17:56 <muelli>	Next one is == Future of Bugsquad/BugDays == then
 237 oct 10 02:18:11 <muelli>	Oh boy, I'd love to see a next bugday again :-) But it needs at least some manpower. I'd say we'd need a cool logo, some blog entries, a nice task which is possible conquer in a day and of course people hanging around in IRC and actually doing stuff.
 238 oct 10 02:18:36 <Susana>	great! bugdays!!
 239 oct 10 02:20:10 <mruiz>	I want to join the team and bugdays would be great to learn
 240 oct 10 02:21:02 <Susana>	muelli: we can ask the gnome artwork team to help us make a logo
 241 oct 10 02:21:21 <Susana>	and images to put on blog posts to announce the bugday
 242 oct 10 02:21:36 <muelli>	Susana: that'd be awesome
 243 oct 10 02:21:43 <Susana>	mruiz: I started contributing to GNOME on a bugday :)
 244 oct 10 02:21:49 <jjardon>	Susana, +1
 245 oct 10 02:21:53 <mruiz>	Susana, great!
 246 oct 10 02:21:54 <Susana>	i love bugdays
 247 oct 10 02:22:10 <muelli>	mruiz: *yay* you're more than welcome. Right now is a bit bad though because we're having a meeting. You're welcome to participate and state your oppinions though :)
 248 oct 10 02:22:35 <muelli>	yeah, me too. But it's better well organized ;-)
 249 oct 10 02:23:04 <jjardon>	I've never participate in a bugday :( 
 250 oct 10 02:23:34 <jjardon>	I would like to participate in one ;)
 251 oct 10 02:23:37 <muelli>	So yeah, I mean we could ask ArtTeam for logo or promo stuff anyway, maybe with a simple date field to fill out manually. So that we have stuff in advance...
 252 oct 10 02:25:18 <mruiz>	muelli, thanks
 253 oct 10 02:25:48 <jjardon>	Somebody has a friend in the art team ;)
 254 oct 10 02:26:46 <mruiz>	_0/
 255 oct 10 02:26:47 <muelli>	So what artwork do we actually need?
 256 oct 10 02:27:09 <muelli>	A logo to blog a couple of times?
 257 oct 10 02:27:35 <muelli>	A banner for bugzilla? Like "watch out, today is bugday - your bugs are going to be smashed"? %)
 258 oct 10 02:28:22 <muelli>	There's this "hang on while I'm processing your search" thing, right? One could have a "It takes a bit longer today^W BUGAY" picture or so...
 259 oct 10 02:28:23 <Susana>	hehe
 260 oct 10 02:28:45 <jjardon>	:)
 261 oct 10 02:28:55 <Susana>	muelli: that would be really cool
 262 oct 10 02:30:13 <Susana>	so bug day next month?
 263 oct 10 02:30:52 <jjardon>	Susana, +1
 264 oct 10 02:31:04 <muelli>	+1
 265 oct 10 02:31:18 <muelli>	I'm not that convinced that we have to power to run that properly though :-|
 266 oct 10 02:31:34 <muelli>	but maybe hggdh can help us out with his Ubuntu experience :-)
 267 oct 10 02:32:19 <hggdh>	:-)
 268 oct 10 02:32:40 <hggdh>	basically, what we need is a target to run the bugday against
 269 oct 10 02:32:50 <hggdh>	and a lot of announcements
 270 oct 10 02:32:58 <muelli>	I'd say to have a further meeting before Bugday though. Maybe just to coordinate final stuff. Maybe we should plan for two month anyway. To get the promo stuff until next month and plan the rest for the month after that.
 271 oct 10 02:33:06 <hggdh>	I agree
 272 oct 10 02:33:21 <hggdh>	there is more to the tale, the way it is done at Ubuntu
 273 oct 10 02:34:17 *	owen (~otaylor@pool-74-104-160-169.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) ha entrado en #bugs
 274 oct 10 02:34:22 <muelli>	I have no experience with the ArtTeam...
 275 oct 10 02:35:03 <mruiz>	I can ask to a friend about it . He works with the ArtTeam.
 276 oct 10 02:35:09 <Susana>	a few days before we can make a page with a list of easy bugs to triage
 277 oct 10 02:35:37 <hggdh>	or select a project, and work on their unconfirmed bugs
 278 oct 10 02:35:43 <mruiz>	sure
 279 oct 10 02:36:04 <muelli>	Maybe something in GNOME 3.0 direction. Or at least with the 3.0 motivation
 280 oct 10 02:36:32 <muelli>	like "in order to successfully start into a new era, let's kill old bugs which would slow us down" or so
 281 oct 10 02:37:29 <muelli>	Besides not knowing how long it takes the Artteam to produce anything, I don't know how much discussion it raises to have a bugzilla banner installed ;-) So I think we'd be better off planning for two month.
 282 oct 10 02:37:50 <mruiz>	+1
 283 oct 10 02:38:08 <jjardon>	muelli, great idea
 284 oct 10 02:40:27 <muelli>	Susana: what do you say?
 285 oct 10 02:41:17 <Susana>	sounds good
 286 oct 10 02:43:21 <Susana>	so we plan the bugday better next meeting, right?
 287 oct 10 02:43:45 <muelli>	hm.
 288 oct 10 02:43:54 <muelli>	I'd say to start planning right now.
 289 oct 10 02:44:03 <muelli>	Like at least collecting what atomic todos it takes to run a bugday.
 290 oct 10 02:44:15 <muelli>	And ask external parties like the artteam to work for us ;-)
 291 oct 10 02:44:47 <jjardon>	I prorpose to send ideas to the agenda page, so we have some for the next meeting
 292 oct 10 02:46:27 <muelli>	jjardon: you mean bugday ideas ala "Check all Evolution<2.22 crashers"?
 293 oct 10 02:47:31 <hggdh>	for example, yes. We need different options and targets for the bugdays
 294 oct 10 02:47:45 <jjardon>	muelli, for example
 295 oct 10 02:48:28 <muelli>	k. what's a good target then?
 296 oct 10 02:49:05 <muelli>	or better: what makes a good target?
 297 oct 10 02:49:10 <jjardon>	or we can send a announcement to the devels and tell the interesed one to fill the agenda with their main bugs
 298 oct 10 02:49:52 <muelli>	Should it be a rather big one "Close 5000 bugs today" or a couple of smaller ones?
 299 oct 10 02:50:54 <Susana>	muelli: goals like "close xxx bugs" can lead us into problems
 300 oct 10 02:51:00 <muelli>	jjardon: Could be a good idea. Bugdays are for attracting newbies, though. So we should communicate that they better not file requests dealing with potentially important bugs
 301 oct 10 02:51:30 <Susana>	we don't want people to close bugs just for closing
 302 oct 10 02:51:37 *	muelli nods
 303 oct 10 02:52:21 <muelli>	So in order to write the "find good goals" todo down, I think it'd be good to think about what a good goal is.
 304 oct 10 02:52:33 <muelli>	It's not that obvious to me, I have to admit.
 305 oct 10 02:53:17 <Susana>	usefull, simple and mesurable
 306 oct 10 02:53:32 <Susana>	and hopefully atractive
 307 oct 10 02:53:33 <muelli>	I mean, the goalis to attract new people to join the bugsquad by doing something important together.
 308 oct 10 02:54:05 <Susana>	let's look at bugs from product xxxx
 309 oct 10 02:54:14 <Susana>	or with xxx keywork set
 310 oct 10 02:54:52 <Susana>	or provide a list of bugs and triage all of those
 311 oct 10 02:55:42 <muelli>	*nod*
 312 oct 10 02:55:54 <mruiz>	Susana, the last one would be great for newbies
 313 oct 10 02:56:05 <muelli>	I'm thinking of bugs with patches right now. I'm writing that down as an idea to file later on.
 314 oct 10 02:57:03 <mruiz>	muelli, great
 315 oct 10 02:57:15 <Susana>	muelli: you mean test submited patches? that sounds good for a patchsquad day but not that good for bug day
 316 oct 10 02:57:16 <muelli>	As we expect to have many people, we need a good bunch of CANEDIT triagers as well, I'd say. Or do we give CANEDIT to the newbies straight away?
 317 oct 10 02:57:50 <muelli>	Susana: no. Rather bitrotting patches. like 300 days old bugs. ask the maintainer if there's anything wrong with the patch or so.
 318 oct 10 02:58:07 <Susana>	muelli: usually new triagers need to triage a few bugs first
 319 oct 10 02:58:34 <Susana>	and yes we should have at least someone who can give canedit perms
 320 oct 10 02:58:48 <muelli>	Susana: sure. I just imagine 1000 new people coming and starting to do the bugday -.-
 321 oct 10 02:59:05 <jjardon>	other idea: tell developers to set a key in the bugs that they want to get triaged
 322 oct 10 02:59:14 <Susana>	i can do it, but i probably can't be on irc all day ;)
 323 oct 10 02:59:29 <muelli>	but that CANEDIT problem could probably be discussed next time. I'd say we'd rather collect todos to get an idea of what to prioritize and what may take longer so that we'd better take care about that ASAP
 324 oct 10 02:59:42 <Susana>	jjardon: adding keywords for triaging generates a lot of bug spam
 325 oct 10 02:59:58 <Susana>	it is best to make a list on a wiki page i think
 326 oct 10 03:00:02 <muelli>	(which would leads us to a point buried furhter down in the agenda)
 327 oct 10 03:00:36 <hggdh>	hum. We need a way of mass-updating
 328 oct 10 03:00:56 <hggdh>	which I guess is the point Muelli was referring to
 329 oct 10 03:01:12 <Susana>	hggdh: mass updating?
 330 oct 10 03:02:56 <Susana>	muelli: making a banner and putting it on bugzilla is probably what will take longer
 331 oct 10 03:03:08 <muelli>	hm. I was not particularly referring to a mass updating mechanism for the bugs. But rather a mechanism that the changes, people would make on bugs, can be more or less easily submited
 332 oct 10 03:03:15 <Susana>	but it is not necessary to put it on bugzilla
 333 oct 10 03:03:54 <Susana>	the most important is to make sure there are enough experienced triagers during the day
 334 oct 10 03:03:55 <muelli>	yeah. I agree. would be nice to have a banner at the top, though. I think it'll make the people feel good, seeing that it's kind of their day :)
 335 oct 10 03:04:49 <Susana>	yeah
 336 oct 10 03:04:58 <muelli>	I'd say we also need a banner, or some image to post around. Like on p.g.o, the wiki, maybe some announcements somewere I don't know..
 337 oct 10 03:05:10 <jjardon>	Susana, yeah, the main objective is that people learn how triage bugs
 338 oct 10 03:06:41 <muelli>	Maybe we can produce screencasts for that.
 339 oct 10 03:07:04 <muelli>	Like the one from Philip Withnal IIRC who show how to create a patch...
 340 oct 10 03:08:15 <Susana>	muelli: this was the last banner: http://bit.ly/WrTbM
 341 oct 10 03:08:39 <muelli>	If we have a measurable goal, I think it'd be nice to have kind of a bot keeping the people informed. Like kind of a moderation. "Heya folks, we got 60% already! Keep on going and we're done with this by 17:42" or so...
 342 oct 10 03:08:40 <Susana>	muelli: that would be a great idea
 343 oct 10 03:09:35 <Susana>	hehe
 344 oct 10 03:10:14 <muelli>	heh, I stole that one somewhere: http://blogs.gnome.org/muelli/files/2009/08/bug-hunt-wgo.png
 345 oct 10 03:11:47 <muelli>	maybe we can patch bugbuddy or apport to show that it's a bugday somewhere in December :D
 346 oct 10 03:12:11 <mruiz>	:)
 347 oct 10 03:13:06 <Susana>	muelli: hmm i don't think we should do that...
 348 oct 10 03:13:10 <Susana>	lol
 349 oct 10 03:14:42 <muelli>	hm. well. That's quite a lot todos already I'd say.
 350 oct 10 03:15:23 <muelli>	oh, btw. I take notes via gobby at mafiasi.de. Just in case you want to have peak...
 351 oct 10 03:15:28 <hggdh>	well, I can check if there would be any problems announcing it at Ubuntu. Also, keep in mind that UDS will be in mid-November
 352 oct 10 03:16:42 <Susana>	i don't have gobby here and cannot install it right now :/
 353 oct 10 03:17:21 <Susana>	they'll be sent to the list right?
 354 oct 10 03:18:09 <muelli>	According to http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven we are going to free modules from dependencies. A job could be to mark bugs containing deprecated modules as NEEDINFO or so so that they can be collected once the dependencies have been abandoned...
 355 oct 10 03:18:14 <muelli>	Susana: I hope so ;)
 356 oct 10 03:18:52 <muelli>	anything else we want to note for running a bugday?
 357 oct 10 03:19:01 <muelli>	So far it's
 358 oct 10 03:19:01 <muelli>	 * Find good goals for a bugday. Useful, simple, measurable und attractive. Maybe "look at bugs from product xxxx" or "with keyword foo" 
 359 oct 10 03:19:01 <muelli>	 * Have a banner to be placed at the top of bugzilla. This is not a must but we be nice to show the appreceation for the new people. Involves asking ArtTeam and bugzilla-admins.
 360 oct 10 03:19:01 <muelli>	 * Have an image or a logo which can be posted around.
 361 oct 10 03:19:02 <muelli>	 * Produce Screencasts on how to triage a bug.
 362 oct 10 03:19:04 <muelli>	 * If there is a measurable goal, an IRC bot might be nice, ala "Heya folks, we got 60% already! Keep on going and we're done with this by 17:42"
 363 oct 10 03:19:14 *	fabio (~fabio@250-52-246-201.adsl.terra.cl) ha entrado en #bugs
 364 oct 10 03:20:14 <jjardon>	muelli, thare already are some GnomeGoals for that: see http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/RemoveDeprecatedSymbols/Glib, for example
 365 oct 10 03:20:41 <jjardon>	and http://www.gnome.org/~fpeters/299.html
 366 oct 10 03:21:50 <muelli>	yep.
 367 oct 10 03:21:51 <hggdh>	ENOBEER, brb
 368 oct 10 03:22:38 <muelli>	I guess it might be useful to ask artteam for a logo and a banner for the bugday ASAP.
 369 oct 10 03:22:49 <fabio>	hi everybody
 370 oct 10 03:23:01 <muelli>	Probably ask them to produce something where one could easily replace or insert a date and a time
 371 oct 10 03:23:22 <mruiz>	muelli, I can do it
 372 oct 10 03:23:44 <jjardon>	mruiz, great!
 373 oct 10 03:24:30 <muelli>	mruiz: :)
 374 oct 10 03:24:50 <muelli>	Okay, do we want to give any further contraints?
 375 oct 10 03:25:10 <muelli>	I mean for the blog image, it's that is has to fit in, say, 400x300 or so...
 376 oct 10 03:25:20 *	Susana se ha marchado (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
 377 oct 10 03:28:43 <muelli>	probably not. I don't really care about colour or so.. And we don't even have a logo which could or should be built in.
 378 oct 10 03:29:47 *	Susana (~Susana@bl6-11-132.dsl.telepac.pt) ha entrado en #bugs
 379 oct 10 03:29:58 <Susana>	argh
 380 oct 10 03:30:13 <muelli>	the time/date should be flexible to insert though.
 381 oct 10 03:30:13 <Susana>	sorry people my internet connection is terrible today
 382 oct 10 03:30:29 <muelli>	hi fabio  :)
 383 oct 10 03:30:38 <fabio>	hi muelli 
 384 oct 10 03:31:22 <muelli>	okay, ACTION mruiz to ask ArtTeam for a logo for blogs and a bugzilla banner. A template to flexibly fill in date/time.
 385 oct 10 03:31:40 <muelli>	(to make it more greppable:
 386 oct 10 03:31:43 <muelli>	ACTION: mruiz to ask ArtTeam for a logo for blogs and a bugzilla banner. A template to flexibly fill in date/time.
 387 oct 10 03:31:50 <mruiz>	:-)
 388 oct 10 03:32:19 <muelli>	If anybody could create a screencast, it'd be so awesome...
 389 oct 10 03:34:12 *	hggdh does not even have a camera...
 390 oct 10 03:34:20 <muelli>	haha
 391 oct 10 03:34:40 <muelli>	you could install one easily ;-) it's called istanbul...
 392 oct 10 03:35:31 <muelli>	Okay, it's probably a task for everybody to think about good Bugday Goals and add them somewhere to the wiki...
 393 oct 10 03:36:50 <muelli>	mruiz: what's your bugzilla handle?
 394 oct 10 03:37:16 <muelli>	anyway, Bug 597971 is your bug. try to take it :-)
 395 oct 10 03:37:17 <bugbot>	Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597971 normal, Normal, 2009-10 Meeting, bugsquad-maint, NEW, Request Bugday Promomaterial from ArtTeam
 396 oct 10 03:37:24 <mruiz>	muelli, I'm starting to use it :-) 
 397 oct 10 03:38:17 <muelli>	mruiz: great :)
 398 oct 10 03:38:53 <jjardon>	muelli, I think we can file ideas in BugDays page: http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/BugDays
 399 oct 10 03:40:14 <muelli>	yep
 400 oct 10 03:40:18 <fabio>	:-)
 401 oct 10 03:40:19 <Susana>	hehe we're a bugzilla product now
 402 oct 10 03:40:32 <mruiz>	:-)
 403 oct 10 03:40:35 <fabio>	jejejeje...
 404 oct 10 03:40:42 <Susana>	i had no idea
 405 oct 10 03:40:52 <muelli>	yes :-) Maybe I should have followed up on g-b.. hmm..
 406 oct 10 03:41:25 <hggdh>	it is just and sensible that bugsquad has its own bugs. Just sort of self-referencing
 407 oct 10 03:42:40 <jjardon>	I've added a new section on the bottom of http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/BugDays, what do you think?
 408 oct 10 03:43:29 <Susana>	i think it should have it's own page
 409 oct 10 03:43:29 <Susana>	for goal ideas
 410 oct 10 03:43:33 <Susana>	voting banners
 411 oct 10 03:43:44 <Susana>	list of places where to announce
 412 oct 10 03:43:45 <hggdh>	this can be built in a philosophy discussion. In this case, this poster might help: http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/2009/09/psychohazard.php?utm_source=combinedfeed&utm_medium=rss
 413 oct 10 03:45:29 <muelli>	Hm. What else do we need to get a bugday rocking?
 414 oct 10 03:46:53 <Susana>	a list of people who will be here
 415 oct 10 03:47:04 <hggdh>	it would be good to have developer/maintainer agreement/acceptance
 416 oct 10 03:47:05 <muelli>	*nod*
 417 oct 10 03:47:21 <muelli>	Apparently it's hard to get all people together on one day...
 418 oct 10 03:47:28 <muelli>	hggdh: in what way?
 419 oct 10 03:48:12 <Susana>	muelli: even if we can't fill a whole day, a few hours is better than nothing
 420 oct 10 03:48:12 <hggdh>	a bugday has the potential to generate a lot of bugmail. Some developers, as we very well know, are not happy with that
 421 oct 10 03:49:18 <Susana>	hggdh: as long as we don't close valid bugs i don't see why that would have aproblem with that
 422 oct 10 03:49:27 <Susana>	*they
 423 oct 10 03:49:45 <muelli>	*shrug* I mean, it's true. But we shouldn't be afraid or anything. Bugzilla is more or less our thing, damnit.
 424 oct 10 03:49:50 <hggdh>	yes, I agree. But better fore-warn them
 425 oct 10 03:49:50 <Susana>	they're alreay used to it
 426 oct 10 03:49:50 <Susana>	arghhh lag again
 427 oct 10 03:50:00 <muelli>	yep. We should do that *note*
 428 oct 10 03:50:10 <Susana>	am i still here?
 429 oct 10 03:50:16 <hggdh>	Susana: yes
 430 oct 10 03:50:28 <Susana>	ah uhf
 431 oct 10 03:50:32 <Susana>	:)
 432 oct 10 03:52:14 <muelli>	hm. k. anything else to note for further todo?
 433 oct 10 03:52:42 <hggdh>	I think we covered enough ground, muelli. Time to stop and look at the todos
 434 oct 10 03:53:07 <Susana>	yeah
 435 oct 10 03:53:32 <muelli>	*nod*
 436 oct 10 03:54:36 <muelli>	I actually didn't really intend to do it right now, besides the ones that take time, of course. But we already got the Art Request covered. So I don't know. We could try to distribute the todos now...
 437 oct 10 03:55:07 <hggdh>	we are all here. Let's do it, then.
 438 oct 10 03:56:11 <muelli>	kk.
 439 oct 10 03:56:41 <muelli>	It's not that much though.
 440 oct 10 03:57:05 <muelli>	well, the first thing I've written down is "Find good goals for a bugday. Useful, simple, measurable und attractive. Maybe "look at bugs from product xxxx" or "with keyword foo" "
 441 oct 10 03:57:50 <muelli>	I don't think it's a hard todo to be distributed right now though. We could do that next month during the next meeting. Maybe have someone to dedicatedly collect some ideas...
 442 oct 10 03:58:35 <hggdh>	for example, select some products as candidates
 443 oct 10 03:59:31 <Susana>	i think we should all add the ideas we have and then discuss/add some more during next meeting
 444 oct 10 03:59:38 <muelli>	yeah. Or Versions. Or something GNOME 3.0 related.
 445 oct 10 04:00:24 <muelli>	yep Susana. The problem is that the people will forget to do that ;-) So we probably need at least someone to remind the people about adding their ideas to that list.
 446 oct 10 04:00:25 <Susana>	any other todos?
 447 oct 10 04:00:40 <Susana>	muelli: ok, i can do that
 448 oct 10 04:01:08 <Susana>	i'll add a page to plan the bug day
 449 oct 10 04:01:14 <Susana>	and ask for feedback on the list
 450 oct 10 04:01:19 <muelli>	great
 451 oct 10 04:01:23 <Susana>	does that sound good?
 452 oct 10 04:01:37 <muelli>	yes
 453 oct 10 04:01:38 <jjardon>	Susana, cool :)
 454 oct 10 04:01:48 <muelli>	 * Have a banner to be placed at the top of bugzilla. This is not a must but we be nice to show the appreciation for the new people. Involves asking ArtTeam and bugzilla-admins.
 455 oct 10 04:02:10 <jjardon>	muelli assign to Susana her bug ;)
 456 oct 10 04:02:48 <muelli>	ACTION: 
 457 oct 10 04:02:50 <muelli>	arr
 458 oct 10 04:02:51 <muelli>	ACTION: Susana to create a bugday planning page and ask people to add their ideas.
 459 oct 10 04:03:43 <muelli>	I think I'd wait with the last point since we have that banner. but I'm not sure whether it's good.
 460 oct 10 04:04:02 <muelli>	One could actually ask now whether we could add such a banner once we have it..
 461 oct 10 04:04:14 <muelli>	it's probably better. The sooner the better.
 462 oct 10 04:05:27 <muelli>	So I can do that. I'll ask gnome-infrastructure whether it's possible to have a banner on top of every bugzilla page on a special day... Probably linked to a bugday page.
 463 oct 10 04:05:37 <Susana>	exactly
 464 oct 10 04:05:44 <Susana>	the sooner the better
 465 oct 10 04:05:45 <fabio>	:-)
 466 oct 10 04:06:08 <Susana>	but even if we can't, that's not very important
 467 oct 10 04:06:24 <muelli>	yes
 468 oct 10 04:06:34 <Susana>	but it shouldn't be too difficult
 469 oct 10 04:06:36 <muelli>	 * Have an image or a logo which can be posted around.
 470 oct 10 04:06:40 <muelli>	that's done by mruiz.
 471 oct 10 04:06:47 <muelli>	but we all need to blog something.
 472 oct 10 04:07:00 <Susana>	when they are about to take bugzilla down for maintemaince they show a message too
 473 oct 10 04:07:50 <jjardon>	muelli, I'm going to microbloggin it ;)
 474 oct 10 04:08:33 <muelli>	So maybe we need something for hggdh to be announce at ubuntu somewhere...
 475 oct 10 04:08:41 <Susana>	muelli: blog, send email to gnome-love, -devel, maybe ubuntu, etc
 476 oct 10 04:08:58 <muelli>	Maybe we can highjack other platforms besides l.g.o and p.g.o such as a gentoo or ubuntu forum.
 477 oct 10 04:09:04 <muelli>	Maybe there's even a GNOME forum...?
 478 oct 10 04:09:07 *	neosergio (~neosergio@190.40.244.103) ha abandonado #bugs
 479 oct 10 04:10:10 <Susana>	muelli: yes, there is
 480 oct 10 04:10:28 <jjardon>	muelli, there already is a gtk forum
 481 oct 10 04:10:29 <Susana>	http://gnomesupport.org/forums/
 482 oct 10 04:10:49 <muelli>	So we could post there as well, I guess :-)
 483 oct 10 04:12:46 <Susana>	sure
 484 oct 10 04:12:59 <Susana>	ok, anything else?
 485 oct 10 04:13:13 <Susana>	i have to go to sleep now
 486 oct 10 04:13:18 <muelli>	me too :-\
 487 oct 10 04:13:27 <muelli>	Sure there is other stuff.
 488 oct 10 04:13:44 <muelli>	But do we want to have someone to write an announcement?
 489 oct 10 04:13:55 <muelli>	Maybe with the date and time left out...
 490 oct 10 04:14:10 <hggdh>	like "Soon back to you"
 491 oct 10 04:14:11 <muelli>	and somebody to research where to post...
 492 oct 10 04:14:14 <hggdh>	?
 493 oct 10 04:15:07 <Susana>	muelli: the announcement is a bit dependent on the idea for the bugday
 494 oct 10 04:15:17 <muelli>	indeed
 495 oct 10 04:15:24 <Susana>	if it will be centered in 3.0 or not
 496 oct 10 04:15:30 <muelli>	I guess we won't have a fixed date before next meeting anyway
 497 oct 10 04:15:32 <Susana>	and the goals
 498 oct 10 04:15:49 <Susana>	yeah i think that can be done in the end
 499 oct 10 04:16:24 <muelli>	 * Produce Screencasts on how to triage a bug.
 500 oct 10 04:17:06 <muelli>	That'd be nice. And probably not as much work as it sounds. Probably takes a bit courage to have ones voice in the internet though.
 501 oct 10 04:17:38 <Susana>	hmm is bugzilla going to change in the near future?
 502 oct 10 04:18:20 <Susana>	screencasts are a great idea but these are strange times, if bugzilla changes they become outdated
 503 oct 10 04:18:21 <muelli>	It'll have a banner on top ;-)
 504 oct 10 04:19:25 <jjardon>	Susana, bugzilla was rencently updated, I don't think that will be major changes
 505 oct 10 04:19:32 <muelli>	but no, I don't think that it'll change dramatically. It might get a new CSS though :-|
 506 oct 10 04:19:58 <muelli>	But IIRC there aren't any plans currently.
 507 oct 10 04:20:10 <Susana>	what about all the gnome customizations?
 508 oct 10 04:20:27 <Susana>	they're not going to be ported?
 509 oct 10 04:20:44 <muelli>	Susana: which one? Many are already ported to bugzilla-3 :-)
 510 oct 10 04:21:47 <Susana>	hmm ok
 511 oct 10 04:21:52 <Susana>	forget that then
 512 oct 10 04:22:25 <Susana>	are there any voluntiers?
 513 oct 10 04:23:32 <Susana>	that many?
 514 oct 10 04:23:34 <Susana>	hehe
 515 oct 10 04:23:56 <Susana>	ok i propose that we add that as a goal as hggdh said
 516 oct 10 04:23:57 <muelli>	Apparently no ;-) I'd do it if I knew that this linux would work reliably >.<
 517 oct 10 04:24:11 <jjardon>	A screencast for search bt dupes would be good?
 518 oct 10 04:24:24 <muelli>	sure :)
 519 oct 10 04:24:27 <Susana>	yes
 520 oct 10 04:24:41 <hggdh>	oh yes
 521 oct 10 04:25:09 <jjardon>	I'll try to do one, but I've never done a screencast ;)
 522 oct 10 04:25:30 <jjardon>	Can you recommend me any tool for that?
 523 oct 10 04:25:44 <muelli>	jjardon: istanbul
 524 oct 10 04:26:00 <muelli>	* If there is a measurable goal, an IRC bot might be nice, ala "Heya folks, we got 60% already! Keep on going and we're done with this by 17:42"
 525 oct 10 04:26:14 <muelli>	guess that's unlikely to be tackled as well
 526 oct 10 04:26:47 <muelli>	But I'll ask KDE folks how they manage their bugdays :) IIRC they have plenty of those.
 527 oct 10 04:26:48 <hggdh>	at least not right now -- we do not know yet what the bot would measure against
 528 oct 10 04:27:26 <muelli>	I'd imagine some defined buglist. And then the open bugcount. Or the bug which have not been touch in more than 24hrs...
 529 oct 10 04:27:41 <muelli>	s/bug/bugs/
 530 oct 10 04:27:53 <hggdh>	brb
 531 oct 10 04:28:28 <muelli>	so yeah, if nobody with a ready to use and easily programmable IRC bot turns up, then we'll better spend time doing something else.
 532 oct 10 04:28:35 <muelli>	like  * Warn developers that there might be more bugmail than usual
 533 oct 10 04:29:04 *	hggdh se ha marchado (hggdh)
 534 oct 10 04:29:33 *	hggdh1 (~cerdea@cpe-76-182-224-58.tx.res.rr.com) ha entrado en #bugs
 535 oct 10 04:30:57 <muelli>	I'll keep that for next meeting
 536 oct 10 04:31:04 <muelli>	 * get as many bug triagers together as possible
 537 oct 10 04:31:17 <muelli>	dunno how that should work. Maybe tell them early and often.
 538 oct 10 04:31:32 <Susana>	we send an email to the list
 539 oct 10 04:31:53 <Susana>	and ask people to put their availability on a table
 540 oct 10 04:32:20 *	hggdh1 se ha marchado (Leaving.)
 541 oct 10 04:32:24 <Susana>	like this http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/BugDays
 542 oct 10 04:33:15 <muelli>	 * Send mail to gnome-love and blog about it
 543 oct 10 04:33:29 <muelli>	prolly be the best when we have a date fixed
 544 oct 10 04:33:40 <muelli>	same for  * Post at http://gnomesupport.org/forums/ (are there other platforms?)
 545 oct 10 04:33:46 <muelli>	awesome.
 546 oct 10 04:33:49 <muelli>	good night.. :D
 547 oct 10 04:34:18 <muelli>	apparently, we need to write a summary, send that out, upload the log, follow up on todos, etc... :-\
 548 oct 10 04:34:53 <jjardon>	I can can upload the logs, and move the remaining agenda for the next meeting
 549 oct 10 04:34:59 <Susana>	yeah those items are the last to do
 550 oct 10 04:35:49 <Susana>	do you have a summary on gobby?
 551 oct 10 04:36:13 <Susana>	i didn't connect, i don't have gobby here and cannot install it
 552 oct 10 04:36:39 <muelli>	yep
 553 oct 10 04:36:44 <muelli>	uploading it to the wiki atm
 554 oct 10 04:36:50 <muelli>	fixing syntax errors
 555 oct 10 04:37:20 <Susana>	great
 556 oct 10 04:37:29 <Susana>	i really have to go now
 557 oct 10 04:37:51 <Susana>	good night all
 558 oct 10 04:38:21 <muelli>	k Susana. Have a good night :-)
 559 oct 10 04:38:26 <muelli>	Sleep well
 560 oct 10 04:39:08 <jjardon>	bye Susana 
 561 oct 10 04:39:14 *	hggdh (~cerdea@cpe-76-182-224-58.tx.res.rr.com) ha entrado en #bugs
 562 oct 10 04:40:51 <muelli>	k. gobby notes are in the wiki
 563 oct 10 04:41:03 <jjardon>	muelli, great :)
 564 oct 10 04:41:13 <hggdh>	thank you, muelli
 565 oct 10 04:41:51 <muelli>	so. that needs to be sanitized. Like typos and content. So please correct anything that's slightly wrong...
 566 oct 10 04:42:07 <muelli>	Then it needs to be wrapped up and send to the mailinglist...
 567 oct 10 04:42:39 <muelli>	hggdh: do you still have some beer left? Then you could wrap it up and send it while finishing up your beer ;-)
 568 oct 10 04:43:03 <hggdh>	nah, out of beer, but still have wine and pop-corn
 569 oct 10 04:43:19 <hggdh>	but will do. It is still early here,
 570 oct 10 04:44:42 <hggdh>	any of you mind giving me the link to the wiki? Just rebooted, and lost the history
 571 oct 10 04:45:45 <mruiz>	bye all
 572 oct 10 04:46:08 <jjardon>	hggdh, http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/Meetings/20091009
 573 oct 10 04:46:11 <jjardon>	mruiz, bye
 574 oct 10 04:46:26 <hggdh>	jjardon: thank you
 575 oct 10 04:46:57 <muelli>	alright. it's 03:46 in here :-\ I really have to get some sleep :-|
 576 oct 10 04:47:10 <jjardon>	yeah 4:47 here ;)
 577 oct 10 04:47:12 <muelli>	Also, my wireless stack decided to burn the CPU an hour ago or so.. >.<
 578 oct 10 04:47:36 <muelli>	so, thank you guys for pushing bugsquad forward again :-)
 579 oct 10 04:47:46 <jjardon>	:) next meeting?
 580 oct 10 04:47:58 <muelli>	Was a pleasure to chat and work with you :)
 581 oct 10 04:48:00 <muelli>	Oh yes
 582 oct 10 04:48:04 <muelli>	next meeting. crap.
 583 oct 10 04:48:16 <mruiz>	:-)
 584 oct 10 04:48:18 <muelli>	Does anybody feel utterly responsible for creating a doodle, etc.?
 585 oct 10 04:48:28 <muelli>	I'd say around 3 or 4 weeks
 586 oct 10 04:48:39 <hggdh>	I will do it
 587 oct 10 04:48:40 <muelli>	probably 3 to have the bugday in mid-december
 588 oct 10 04:48:46 <muelli>	hggdh: sweet!
 589 oct 10 04:48:59 <muelli>	beginning of december...
 590 oct 10 04:49:00 <hggdh>	will sanitise the wiki & send out the email, plust the doodl
 591 oct 10 04:49:04 <hggdh>	k
 592 oct 10 04:49:10 <jjardon>	hggdh, thank you
 593 oct 10 04:49:15 <hggdh>	welcome
 594 oct 10 04:49:25 <muelli>	then I hereby declare the meeting to be finished ;-) please stop recording the session now..

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