1 12:28 <@sandy> Alright folks, it's almost time for THE MEETING
2 12:28 -!- sandy
3 12:29 <@sandy> who all is here for the meeting?
4 12:29 * vern waves
5 12:29 * bojolais is here to lurk
6 12:29 * lamalex raises hand
7 12:30 <@sandy> vern: thanks for that email reminder, btw
8 12:30 < galette> o/
9 12:30 < vern> n/p
10 12:30 * nightm4re lurk!
11 12:30 * plaxx[tomdroid] is here
12 12:30 <@sandy> hi plaxx[tomdroid]!
13 12:30 < plaxx[tomdroid]> hi!
14 12:30 * suseROCKs promises to try to be respectful of sandy today
15 12:31 <@sandy> has everybody looked at the wiki?
16 12:31 * plaxx[tomdroid] is shy because of first IRC meeting and must attend to real phone meeting at the same time
17 12:31 <@sandy> added things they'd like to talk about, etc?
18 12:31 <@sandy> Tomboy Notes | Roadmap Meeting Today at 19:30 GMT http://live.gnome.org/Tomboy/DevMeetingZeroPointFourteen | Latest Stable Release is 0.12.1
19 12:31 <@sandy> whoops
20 12:31 <@sandy> but yeah, that link
21 12:32 < vern> i put a couple notes on there
22 12:32 -!- sandy
23 12:32 <@sandy> well, let's go ahead and get started
24 12:32 <@sandy> So first of all, thanks everybody for being here
25 12:33 <@sandy> there's not really a strict agenda for this meeting
26 12:33 <@sandy> First I'll talk about last cycle
27 12:33 <@sandy> then talk about current events
28 12:33 <@sandy> then plans for this cycle
29 12:33 <@sandy> we'll see if people are interested in taking up specific tasks, or not
30 12:33 <@sandy> just so that everybody's on the same page, for expectations of Tomboy 0.14.0
31 12:34 <@sandy> So...last cycle
32 12:34 <@sandy> started off strong, lots of interest, people sending in patches
33 12:34 <@sandy> but then Boyd and I had no time to do our jobs as maintainers
34 12:34 <@sandy> so we lost some momentum in the community
35 12:35 <@sandy> pretty unfortunate
36 12:35 <@sandy> I think 0.12.0 was a solid release, but we didn't get done what we set out to do
37 12:35 <@sandy> I've discussed this a bit on the list
38 12:35 < vern> but there's still lots of interest, and patches waiting to be integrated
39 12:35 <@sandy> what I can do, and what we can do, to keep that from happening
40 12:35 <@sandy> exactly vern
41 12:36 <@sandy> So we delivered a good 0.12.0, but some things had to be cut out
42 12:36 <@sandy> and some fixes people were hoping for didn't make it
43 12:36 <@sandy> this time we can do better!
44 12:36 <@sandy> :-)
45 12:36 <@sandy> So where are we now?
46 12:36 <@sandy> I think this cross-platform stuff has generated a lot of excitement
47 12:36 < eoin> apologies, arrived late.. here to keep an eye on whether I can help with any mac integration stuff
48 12:36 <@sandy> we're going to see a lot of interest from new users
49 12:36 <@sandy> and hopefully new contributors!
50 12:37 <@sandy> we need to be ready for a lot of bug reports from people who aren't used to writing bug reports
51 12:37 <@lamalex> i had no idea there were so many mac users who paid attention to gnome apps
52 12:37 <@sandy> lamalex: they're all linux expatriates, I think :-P
53 12:37 < Jayku1> Yeah, think of them as UNIX users ;)
54 12:37 <@lamalex> i.e. freedom haters ;)
55 12:37 <@sandy> working at their fancy Web 2.0 companies
56 12:37 <@sandy> with their fancy MacBooks
57 12:37 <@sandy> :-P
58 12:37 < eoin> :-|
59 12:37 <@sandy> just teasing
60 12:38 <@sandy> but this is good
61 12:38 <@sandy> we are going to be getting more bug traffic
62 12:38 < vern> so, with the expansion to Win/Mac, there will be a lot more people looking to sync notes...
63 12:38 <@sandy> and hopefully patches
64 12:38 <@sandy> vern: yup, we'll get to that
65 12:38 <@sandy> so I think the most important thing *I* can do, as a maintainer, is to be very responsive to bugs
66 12:38 <@sandy> to triage all our old stuff as I can
67 12:38 <@sandy> review old patches
68 12:38 < kidk> I was thinking about some kind of note server. Or maybe just use svn for notes.
69 12:38 <@sandy> and just to keep our bug count DOWN
70 12:39 <@Jc2k> kidk: i'll get to that
71 12:39 <@sandy> :-)
72 12:39 <@sandy> to that end, I intend to be in here every other weekend
73 12:39 <@sandy> working on bugs and patches
74 12:39 < kidk> that would be awesome, seeing that svn/note server will work on all platforms
75 12:39 < plaxx[tomdroid]> Jc2k and kidk: I would be interested by your work so keep us posted on the mailing list
76 12:39 <@sandy> and if people want to help, that would be a great way to get involved
77 12:39 <@sandy> basically, a time where you can count on me to be available to talk to you about your patch or bug or whatever
78 12:40 <@sandy> in terms of other features I intend to work on
79 12:40 < vern> i think it would be helpful to have a wiki page for every bi-weekly 'hack-day'
80 12:40 <@sandy> basically I just care about fixing bugs, performance issues, and probably porting to Gtk.Print
81 12:40 < vern> just to share ideas for that day and keep other people up to date
82 12:40 <@sandy> vern: good idea!
83 12:40 < vern> even if it's an informal thing
84 12:40 <@sandy> so now I'll go ahead and open the floor
85 12:41 <@sandy> oh, fogot to mention
86 12:41 <@sandy> s/fogot/forgot
87 12:41 <@sandy> obviously solid Windows and Mac releases are my other big priority
88 12:41 <@sandy> so let's take turns... Jc2k, do you want to talk about wizbit or anything?
89 12:42 * Jc2k flails his hands around wildly
90 12:42 < plaxx[tomdroid]> I see two conflicting trends in future direction I would like to get clarified: sqllite back-end or still sticking to xml notes?
91 12:42 <@Jc2k> so robtaylor is better at describing this
92 12:42 <@Jc2k> plaxx[tomdroid]: my turn!! :p
93 12:42 < plaxx[tomdroid]> sorry about that..
94 12:43 -!- galtom
95 12:43 <@Jc2k> so codethink has been working on a storage backend
96 12:43 <@Jc2k> not just for tomboy, but we are using tomboy to work out what is needed from an API standpoint
97 12:43 <@Jc2k> and from an end user point of view
98 12:43 <@Jc2k> it provides reliable sync and versioning
99 12:44 <@Jc2k> this doesnt really show off the sync or the fancier UI ideas, but the basic prototype can be seen here:
100 12:44 <@Jc2k> http://www.wine-doors.org/screens/wizbit.ogg
101 12:45 <@Jc2k> to integrate this into tomboy we've ripped out the XML files backend and made it write to wizbit instead, so for 2.26 we'd like to help tomboy get pluggable backends
102 12:45 <@lamalex> Jc2k: are you one of the wizbit guys from gnome summit?
103 12:45 <@Jc2k> lamalex: yes
104 12:46 < Jayku1> o.O
105 12:46 <@lamalex> ah ok, heh wish I had known, I would have introduced myself
106 12:46 <@sandy> codethink's code is in a bzr repo
107 12:46 <@sandy> and last I checked, it didn't take too much hacking at Tomboy to get it to work
108 12:47 <@sandy> so I think pluggable backends are a very easy and worthwhile target
109 12:47 <@Jc2k> we also have a jhbuild moduleset to set up the wizbit libraries if people want to play with a versioned backend
110 12:47 <@Jc2k> kidk, plaxx[tomdroid]: and that is my answer to an svn backend..
111 12:47 <@sandy> wizbit is still new
112 12:47 < vern> thinking of tomboy as a whole: is wizbit *nix/mac/win compatible?
113 12:47 <@sandy> so it's not like we're talking about switching to it as our default backend at this point
114 12:48 <@sandy> but supporting it, and supporting experimentation with other backends (like SVN or whatever), would be really cool
115 12:48 <@sandy> we had a Summer of Code student start on that a couple of years ago, but it never really went anywhere
116 12:48 < Jayku1> If you do pluggable backends, you'll need a way to, you know ... move _everything_ from one back end to another
117 12:48 <@Jc2k> vern: its using pure GLib, sqlite and libuuid at the moment. it should work on windows and mac
118 12:48 -!- kidk
119 12:48 <@sandy> by kidk|shower
120 12:48 <@sandy> bye
121 12:48 <@Jc2k> vern: if i can get a mac or a hackintosh a mac port is likely very soon
122 12:48 <@sandy> :-)
123 12:49 <@sandy> on a related note
124 12:49 <@sandy> if anybody has looked at our recent cross-platform code
125 12:49 <@sandy> it's still not a beautiful perfect refactoring
126 12:49 <@sandy> we have #if MAC and #if WIN32 sprinkled around
127 12:49 <@sandy> Banshee is a good example of well-factored code that splits its services up in a way that they can all be replaced with add-ins
128 12:50 <@sandy> and for performance reasons, I'm looking at changing how we do add-ins a bit, too
129 12:50 <@sandy> so really this all ties in together
130 12:50 < vern> sandy: howso?
131 12:50 <@sandy> there is an opportunity here to do a lot of code cleanup
132 12:50 < vern> (addin's change)
133 12:50 <@sandy> vern: right now, when Tomboy starts, we open up every note and create an instance of each NoteAddin
134 12:51 <@sandy> this is not necessary for most NoteAddins
135 12:51 <@sandy> things like that
136 12:51 <@sandy> you know, we don't need to initialize spell checking and the like until a note window is open :-)
137 12:52 <@sandy> but anyway
138 12:52 <@sandy> let's move on from this
139 12:52 < vern> I'd also like to change the XML a bit to be more friendly to addins, and make sure the addition/removal/updating of addin's is handled correctly
140 12:52 <@sandy> so who here is interested in XML format, file format, schema issues?
141 12:52 <@sandy> vern and plaxx[tomdroid], right?
142 12:52 <@sandy> anybody else
143 12:52 * plaxx[tomdroid] waves
144 12:52 <@Jc2k> i am slightly for wizbit
145 12:53 <@sandy> let's talk about that
146 12:53 <@sandy> plaxx[tomdroid], I did not get to review your stuff yet
147 12:53 <@sandy> sorry
148 12:53 <@sandy> but talk to me about what we gain from having a good schema
149 12:53 <@sandy> (if you're available right now)
150 12:54 < plaxx[tomdroid]> sorry about doing multiple things at the same time
151 12:54 < plaxx[tomdroid]> well, for me I did it for validation
152 12:55 < plaxx[tomdroid]> what I can expect from the tomboy notes files so I can write parser that will produce and read xml that passes validation by the schema
153 12:55 <@sandy> so in case people don't know
154 12:55 <@sandy> plaxx[tomdroid] is working on a Tomboy note client for Android
155 12:55 < Jayku1> Side Note: regarding a "note server" would it be simpler to just use the current xml notes, and the apparently already existing webdav sync ... particularly since Mozilla's Weave project is pushing WebDav too?
156 12:55 <@sandy> !!!
157 12:56 <@sandy> Jaykul: we'll get there
158 12:56 <@sandy> so having a defined schema starts to matter when there are other apps consuming Tomboy notes
159 12:56 <@sandy> okay, so vern, why don't you go
160 12:56 < vern> I dont have any grand plan
161 12:56 < plaxx[tomdroid]> but I want people to know that I'm doing this as a university project so I'm writing more meta docs than producing real stuff for now but I intend to maintain it afterwards
162 12:56 < vern> but I've seen some instances where addins put things in notes
163 12:57 < vern> and if the addins aren't on another client
164 12:57 < vern> data gets lost
165 12:57 < vern> and also, like you said, with other apps reading tomboy notes, we need to make sure our format is very consistant
166 12:57 < plaxx[tomdroid]> other clients shouldn't rewrite part of a note it didn't touch
167 12:58 <@Jc2k> (side note: wizbit protects you here because this history is still there)
168 12:58 < vern> as it stands, plugins are scanning notes, and doing whatever they want
169 12:58 < vern> without indicating they did things
170 12:58 <@sandy> vern: do you have ideas for how to fix this?
171 12:58 < vern> if intread they added xml tags indicating who they are and what they did, its more managable
172 12:59 < vern> also, this would alow tomboy to give _portions_ of the note to the addins to process for display
173 12:59 <@sandy> so the only problem here, is we have to be smarter about handling tags we don't recognize
174 12:59 <@sandy> on a system where the add-in isn't installed
175 12:59 < vern> instead of looking for its own individually defined markers
176 12:59 < vern> yes! exactly
177 12:59 <@Jc2k> you need some way of handling arbitary tags you have no clue about..
178 13:00 <@Jc2k> and making sure note saving respects them..
179 13:00 < plaxx[tomdroid]> maybe a namespace addin:
180 13:00 < vern> the tags for the plugin can be setup to define what should be done if the plugin doesn't exist
181 13:00 < vern> like a <default> inner tag or the such
182 13:00 < vern> like, for example, the latex markup tag
183 13:01 < vern> well, this might be too much detail for now
184 13:01 < vern> but along those lines
185 13:01 <@sandy> right, that's a good idea!
186 13:01 <@sandy> and I think with all of this focus on different backends, sync, and cross-platform...
187 13:01 < Jayku1> you might borrow a little from XAML ...
188 13:02 <@sandy> we NEED to address this
189 13:02 <@sandy> vern: is this something *you* want to work on?
190 13:02 < vern> I'd be up for a brainstorming session on this
191 13:02 -!- pferrill
192 13:02 < vern> and yes, I do plan to do actual work on this as well
193 13:02 <@sandy> okay, that's awesome
194 13:02 < Jayku1> They allow an xml "namespace" to be defined based on a .net namespace ...
195 13:02 <@sandy> let's move on for now then
196 13:02 -!- mowestusa
197 13:02 < vern> we actually have one
198 13:02 < vern> ok
199 13:03 <@sandy> okay, who wants to talk?
200 13:03 <@sandy> :-)
201 13:03 < vern> (maybe sandy wants to talk about sync?)
202 13:03 <@Jc2k> sync! sync!
203 13:04 <@sandy> sure
204 13:04 < vern> Jc2k: good idea :P
205 13:04 <@sandy> okay, so where are we with sync?
206 13:04 <@sandy> let's summarize
207 13:04 <@sandy> we have a working sync implementation
208 13:04 <@Jc2k> internal sync using fuse
209 13:04 <@Jc2k> external sync using conduit
210 13:04 <@Jc2k> external sync using opensync
211 13:04 <@Jc2k> all 3 exist
212 13:04 <@sandy> right, so with Tomboy
213 13:04 <@sandy> internally
214 13:04 <@Jc2k> oh, and tomboy sync with wizbit too
215 13:04 <@sandy> you get a sync setup where the user has to have a server set up
216 13:04 <@sandy> and they have to manually sync
217 13:05 <@sandy> conflicts are detected, but the only resolution options are overwrite or copy to new note
218 13:05 <@sandy> the only really useful sync backends depend on FUSE
219 13:05 <@sandy> and are fragile when FUSE changes things
220 13:05 <@sandy> or when the FUSE backends change things
221 13:05 <@sandy> Jc2k: where is Conduit?
222 13:05 <@sandy> is there autosync?
223 13:06 <@sandy> conflict detection?
224 13:06 <@Jc2k> yes, and its sane now my patch landed in tomboy ;D
225 13:06 <@Jc2k> there is conflict detection, but its not that much better than tomboy
226 13:06 <@Jc2k> i can just which one wins
227 13:06 <@Jc2k> *choose
228 13:06 <@Jc2k> and i think copy, its been a while..
229 13:07 < Jayku1> That would be a step in the right direction ;)
230 13:07 <@Jc2k> but with autosync, conflicts are hopefully rarer
231 13:07 <@Jc2k> conduit is a blessed gnome dependency, so tomboy can use it
232 13:07 <@Jc2k> BUT even though we can run conduit on windows, im not sure its an option just yet
233 13:08 <@Jc2k> e.g. dbus interface to tomboy might cause pain..
234 13:08 <@sandy> Jc2k: no dbus yet
235 13:08 <@Jc2k> indeed
236 13:08 <@sandy> I was told not to count on a daemon there
237 13:08 * Jayku1 opines that dbus on windows might as well not exist
238 13:08 <@sandy> Jc2k: where can you safely sync to?
239 13:08 <@sandy> without losing a bunch of formatting?
240 13:09 <@lamalex> Jayku1: there is dbus on windows
241 13:09 <@lamalex> dbus is cross platform iirc
242 13:09 <@sandy> like, what would you recommend for a typical person with two linux desktops?
243 13:09 <@sandy> Jc2k: ^^
244 13:09 <@Jc2k> conduit can sync to ssh, other machines running conduit (avahi), anything GVFS can speak, and ipod
245 13:09 <@Jc2k> (ipod does some hackery to preserve formatting)
246 13:09 <@sandy> ok
247 13:09 <@sandy> that's really cool
248 13:09 <@Jc2k> can also sync to backpackit, but formatting is lost
249 13:09 <@sandy> sure
250 13:09 <@sandy> and then there is galette
251 13:09 <@Jc2k> oh, lets not forget Amazon S3 and box.net
252 13:10 < vern> what are peoples thought on an entirely internal to tomboy x-platform sync?
253 13:10 <@sandy> Jc2k: no formatting loss to box.net?
254 13:10 <@Jc2k> (they are just file stores, so no formatting loss)
255 13:10 < vern> (not to discount other options)
256 13:10 <@sandy> vern: I think it hardly matters, as long as we come up with a cross-platform solution
257 13:10 <@sandy> I like limiting the downloads we have to do
258 13:11 <@sandy> for our users on Mac/Windows
259 13:11 <@sandy> I care less when it's as easy as zypper in conduit
260 13:11 <@Jc2k> duplicating sync is like each app writing its own GTK, it makes me sad.
261 13:11 <@sandy> yeah, it's true
262 13:11 <@sandy> there is a lot of hairy stuff in sync
263 13:11 < plaxx[tomdroid]> but syncing is based on context if you want something else than overwrite if conflict
264 13:11 <@sandy> but Conduit (for example) could provide a way for tomboy to handle that
265 13:12 <@sandy> in theory
266 13:12 <@lamalex> someone convince conduit to make a libconduit that does syncing all apps can use
267 13:12 -!- galtom
268 13:12 <@Jc2k> thats what conduit is
269 13:12 <@Jc2k> only its a dbus service
270 13:12 <@lamalex> you don't need the whole frontend junk?
271 13:12 <@Jc2k> (thats important because it, for example, responds to HAL and friends for you)
272 13:12 < galette> sandy, ?
273 13:12 < vern> another option is to wrap every user change in a <version> tag
274 13:12 < Jayku1> lamalex: not saying it doesn't exist, hypothetically speaking, but I couldn't find a binary or installer of dbus for windows ... and did not (in the few minutes I alloted it) succeed in compiling it.
275 13:12 <@Jc2k> yeah, it runs without gtk
276 13:12 < galette> (sorry my connection is lagging a bit , hard to follow)
277 13:12 <@lamalex> ah ok, well then I'm satisfied
278 13:12 < vern> this would not only help sync, but give users an easy way to review history without svn, etc
279 13:13 <@sandy> so let's stop for a second
280 13:13 <@sandy> there are two things going on here
281 13:13 <@Jc2k> vern: your rewriting wizbit there
282 13:13 <@sandy> we've got the mechanism for sync
283 13:13 <@Jc2k> (only in a more painful mannor)
284 13:13 < vern> ok, ok - sorry :P
285 13:13 <@sandy> which I think maybe we should dicuss separately
286 13:14 <@sandy> because to the user it's kind of unimportant
287 13:14 <@sandy> let's look at our sync story from the top level
288 13:14 <@Jc2k> i'd like to mention wizbit and opensync a bit if its ok tho
289 13:14 <@sandy> for any normal Windows or Mac user
290 13:14 <@sandy> IT SUCKS
291 13:14 <@sandy> they have to set up server space somewhere
292 13:14 <@Jc2k> not with wizbit!
293 13:14 <@Jc2k> :
294 13:14 <@Jc2k> :)
295 13:14 <@sandy> or they have to configure Conduit's weird UI
296 13:14 <@Jc2k> we are going to have a pairing setup
297 13:14 <@sandy> galette has been working on something
298 13:14 <@sandy> I'm not saying he's going to be ready for this release or anything
299 13:15 <@Jc2k> where i can pair my devices together and sync happens automatically whenever it can
300 13:15 <@sandy> but he's been working on a web app
301 13:15 < galette> yep
302 13:15 <@sandy> I think this is worth discussing
303 13:15 <@sandy> what's the best way we can let a user do sync?
304 13:15 <@sandy> let them register for an account with tomboy-online.org or whatever
305 13:15 <@sandy> and have it just work
306 13:15 < galette> demo here : http://www.mrgaetan.eu/tomboyonline/
307 13:15 <@Jc2k> "pair" with a device, the web app, or whatever and then just autosync
308 13:15 < plaxx[tomdroid]> and use a web api
309 13:15 <@sandy> and then maybe they can view/edit their notes online
310 13:16 <@sandy> and then maybe plaxx[tomdroid] can sync tomdroid to it
311 13:16 <@sandy> what do people think?
312 13:16 < plaxx[tomdroid]> and then we rule the world
313 13:16 <@sandy> is this too big a headache for a small project like us?
314 13:16 <@lamalex> however then we have to maintain that server space
315 13:16 <@sandy> lamalex: exactly
316 13:16 <@sandy> big big deal
317 13:16 <@sandy> big big commitment
318 13:16 <@lamalex> yes
319 13:16 <@sandy> I didn't get to go to Boston
320 13:16 < vern> that's a bit commitment for the maintainer of that server
321 13:16 <@sandy> I didn't get to talk to Owen about Online Desktop
322 13:16 < vern> whether it be gnome.org or whoever
323 13:16 <@sandy> when Havoc was in charge he was interested in making it happen
324 13:16 <@lamalex> it would need to be open source so people can run their own also
325 13:16 <@sandy> but he went away
326 13:17 <@sandy> lamalex: galette's stuff is open source
327 13:17 < Jayku1> hehe
328 13:17 < kidk|shower> we can also make the software so that users can set up there own server
329 13:17 <@lamalex> as it should be ;)
330 13:17 <@sandy> kidk|shower: yes, people should be able to pick what they want
331 13:17 < plaxx[tomdroid]> lamalex : you are thinking AGPL?
332 13:17 <@lamalex> heh kidk|shower that's what I just said
333 13:17 -!- kidk|shower
334 13:17 < Jayku1> here's where I mention Mozilla's "weave" and the WebDav servers they're using
335 13:17 <@sandy> but I think sync is a big fail if we can't give them something that works out of the box
336 13:17 < kidk> sry :)
337 13:17 <@lamalex> plaxx[tomdroid]: something like that
338 13:17 < kidk> true sandy
339 13:17 <@sandy> Jaykul: maybe that is exactly what we should do
340 13:17 <@sandy> who knows?
341 13:18 <@sandy> any other cool ideas for making sync easy (for users)?
342 13:18 <@sandy> 1) host ourselves
343 13:18 <@sandy> 2) Online Desktop (dead?)
344 13:18 <@sandy> 3) Weave
345 13:18 <@sandy> 4) is there anybody else who can help us?
346 13:18 <@lamalex> what is weave?
347 13:19 < Jayku1> Weave is mozilla's sync plugin
348 13:19 <@Jc2k> sandy: do most people want to put their notes on a server, or just sync between devices?
349 13:19 < Jayku1> it's based on webdav
350 13:19 <@sandy> Jc2k: excellent question
351 13:19 < Jayku1> so they're providing a server ...
352 13:19 <@sandy> right NOW, I mostly hear people wanting to sync Tomboy on machine 1 with Tomboy on machine 2
353 13:19 <@Jc2k> (1): avahi+pairing to autosync my pcs
354 13:19 < Jayku1> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Weave
355 13:20 < Jayku1> or rather: http://labs.mozilla.com/projects/weave/
356 13:20 <@Jc2k> (2): someone is working on syncing tomboy to syncml based phones, and i can probably sync to windows mobile phones..
357 13:20 < vern> personally, my biggest priority is to get tomboy notes on the go (ie: web)
358 13:20 <@sandy> vern has a point, not everybody has a mobile device
359 13:20 < kidk> I think having a server ist a bad idea. But where will you get funding ?
360 13:20 <@Jc2k> i did some maths that we wouldnt have to charge the earth to a user for a good wedge of space
361 13:20 <@sandy> kidk: donations? GNOME? Novell?
362 13:21 < mowestusa> Personally, I would like to sync mainly to one Linux box to another which the sshfuse option did well, but by having them online, I could then view and maybe edit when I'm on a Windows Box at work.
363 13:21 < plaxx[tomdroid]> being pragmatic, google ads? but expect the flames
364 13:21 < galette> plaxx[tomdroid], tomboyonline is under AGPL
365 13:21 < plaxx[tomdroid]> galette: do you have an API to edit the notes yet?
366 13:22 < galette> I prefer having my note on a server , and sync PCs from their
367 13:23 < mowestusa> An Online solution might eliminate the needs for things like "Remember the Milk" because we could use tomboy notes instead.
368 13:23 < vern> how would people feel if Big Company X (Google, Yahoo, etc) hosted the server?
369 13:23 <@sandy> well, there's a lot to talk about
370 13:23 < kidk> badly
371 13:23 <@sandy> Free Service Definition and all that
372 13:23 <@Jc2k> vern: i wouldnt use it
373 13:23 <@Jc2k> im unlikely to use any server anyway
374 13:23 <@sandy> right
375 13:23 < Jayku1> What about if the "big company" is mozilla?
376 13:23 < Jayku1> ;)
377 13:23 <@sandy> guys, step back a bit
378 13:23 < Jayku1> I sync to my USB drive
379 13:23 <@Jc2k> i'll use peer to peer, or my own sftp
380 13:24 <@sandy> we're talking about default option for people who WANT a server but can't do their own
381 13:24 <@sandy> do you think they care a lot about who hosts it?
382 13:24 < plaxx[tomdroid]> definitely not
383 13:24 < kidk> I think ssh syncing isnt a bad idea. But it needs improvement
384 13:24 < galette> plaxx[tomdroid], not yet working on rewriting my parser
385 13:24 <@Jc2k> kidk: sure, would love it if it used GIO instead of FUSE
386 13:25 <@sandy> y
387 13:25 <@sandy> so sync is a big set of stories
388 13:25 < kidk> if I have some free time i'l try to take a look at it
389 13:25 <@sandy> it's not one thing
390 13:25 < vern> maybe we should have a seperate meeting about this after a brainstorming session on the wiki??
391 13:25 <@sandy> vern: good idea
392 13:25 <@sandy> it's been about an hour
393 13:26 <@sandy> so does anybody else have topics?
394 13:26 <@sandy> work they want to volunteer for?
395 13:26 <@sandy> things they're intersted in seeing happen?
396 13:26 < vern> addin repository
397 13:26 < kidk> iphone tomboy ? :D
398 13:26 < vern> ^ too true :/
399 13:26 <@sandy> not our purview
400 13:26 <@Jc2k> kidk: i think someone is working on syncing notes to iphone via conduit..
401 13:27 < kidk> ah nice!
402 13:27 < Jayku1> iphone can use the web app ;)
403 13:27 <@sandy> :-)
404 13:27 <@sandy> anybody have a big old bug they wish we would finally fix?
405 13:27 <@sandy> or a comment on how Tomboy is being run, as a project?
406 13:28 < vern> single character note titles
407 13:28 <@sandy> !
408 13:28 < Jayku1> Yeah!
409 13:28 <@sandy> :-)
410 13:28 <@sandy> BESIDES that one
411 13:28 < Jayku1> And, the systray menu sucks on Windows
412 13:28 <@sandy> we have to fix it or I will kill myself
413 13:28 < Jayku1> I mean, really bad
414 13:28 < kidk> not really old: the windows popup fadeout
415 13:28 < Jayku1> (Not your purview, prolly)
416 13:28 < kidk> i tried doing it mysql
417 13:28 < vern> that was a bad hack i put in
418 13:28 < kidk> but dont have enough exp with GTK
419 13:28 < vern> gtk has some windows issue iirc
420 13:28 < Jayku1> but the right-click menus in the notes themselves behave properly
421 13:29 <@sandy> Jayku1: yes, those need to be fixed
422 13:29 <@sandy> they are filed
423 13:29 <@sandy> they *will* be fixed
424 13:29 < Jayku1> so it seems like the systray ones should be basically the same
425 13:29 <@sandy> sooner with patches, of course
426 13:29 < eoin> i'm going to be working on Banshee mac integration. There'll probably be some cross-over with tomboy, for example integrating notes into the dock-item context menu
427 13:29 < Jayku1> right now I can open up dozens of them
428 13:29 <@sandy> eoin: have you seen the discussion in bugzilla?
429 13:29 < eoin> nope
430 13:30 <@sandy> ok, I'll point you to the bug later
431 13:30 <@sandy> (or just search for Tomboy Mac bugs)
432 13:30 < eoin> sandy: cool
433 13:30 <@sandy> I'm glad you guys hate the same bugs I do
434 13:30 < vern> wiki page for people to look at submitted patches and addins (there's lots)
435 13:30 <@sandy> vern: not sure if that makes sense for patches
436 13:31 <@sandy> but yeah, we need to be better about tracking add-ins
437 13:31 < plaxx[tomdroid]> vern: good idea
438 13:31 <@sandy> and bugs with add-ins
439 13:31 < vern> sandy: I mean the ones sitting there, not new ones
440 13:31 < vern> someone needs to act on them, make sure they are still current, etc
441 13:31 <@sandy> vern: that's what my bug/patch days will be for
442 13:31 <@sandy> I can't let those sit around
443 13:31 < vern> ok
444 13:31 <@sandy> making a wiki page probably isn't worth the effort
445 13:31 <@sandy> let's keep it on bugzilla
446 13:32 < plaxx[tomdroid]> I remember a page about bugs needing attention.. where is it?
447 13:32 <@sandy> plaxx[tomdroid]: decided not to stick with it
448 13:32 <@sandy> easier just to use bugzilla
449 13:32 <@sandy> plus, nobody was editing it :-)
450 13:32 < plaxx[tomdroid]> I see
451 13:33 <@sandy> if there's a bug you care about
452 13:33 <@sandy> and it looks ignored
453 13:33 <@sandy> ping on it
454 13:33 <@sandy> normally I hate that
455 13:33 <@sandy> but ti will help with prioritizing stuff
456 13:33 <@sandy> at this stage
457 13:34 <@sandy> so Jaykul has volunteered to fix all windows bugs
458 13:34 < plaxx[tomdroid]> i'll try to come here on a saturday (your bugdays right?) and talk about it instead
459 13:34 <@sandy> and eoin all mac bugs
460 13:34 < Jayku1> lol
461 13:34 <@sandy> :-P
462 13:34 < eoin> sandy: :|
463 13:34 < vern> i believe just about everything is P3 right now - maybe actually notch some up
464 13:34 <@sandy> yes
465 13:34 <@sandy> good point vern
466 13:34 < Jayku1> I only volunteered to fix the ones that bug me ;)
467 13:34 <@sandy> they'll bug you if I keep pinging you about them
468 13:34 < Jayku1> hehe
469 13:35 <@sandy> plaxx[tomdroid]: every other saturday
470 13:35 < Jayku1> hey, you know ..
471 13:35 <@sandy> this weekend I won't be here
472 13:35 <@sandy> but NEXT Saturday
473 13:35 < mowestusa> Anyone know if Fedora 9 will be upgraded to the current version or if it will be in Fedora 10?
474 13:35 < Jayku1> is there a bug/feature-request about adding more key shortcuts?
475 13:35 <@sandy> mowestusa: no idea
476 13:35 <@sandy> Jayku1: there are some for specific keys
477 13:35 <@sandy> what do you want?
478 13:36 < Jayku1> Well, like ...
479 13:36 < Jayku1> I accidentally discovered that ALT+RightArrow will bullet
480 13:36 < Jayku1> would be nice to have that on the menu
481 13:36 < mowestusa> I wish distros could keep more up to date with Tomboy and Gnome Do especially because things seem to be changing quickly in both of these projects.
482 13:36 <@sandy> Jayku1: so file that
483 13:36 <@sandy> mowestusa: I'm sure whatever Fedora is coming out about this time will have Tomboy 0.12.1
484 13:37 <@sandy> just like Intrepid and openSUSE 11.1
485 13:37 < Jayku1> so what I mean is, in general, it would be nice not to have to use my mouse to use tomboy
486 13:37 <@sandy> Jayku1: file them
487 13:37 <@sandy> we have the technology
488 13:37 < Jayku1> k
489 13:37 < mowestusa> Jayku1, that is a cool shortcut, thanks for letting me know about that one.
490 13:37 < Jayku1> hehe
491 13:37 <@sandy> anything else?
492 13:37 < Jayku1> mowestusa: if you find one for making the text bigger, I'm still looking
493 13:37 < plaxx[tomdroid]> people interested in checking/commenting the XML schema of the v0.3 (latest) of the notes: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557351
494 13:37 <@sandy> I know this meeting has been a bit chaotic
495 13:38 <@sandy> Jayku1: there's a bug for that one I know
496 13:38 <@sandy> so you're not the only one
497 13:38 < Jayku1> oh, and do you know that if you copy/paste from a note with bullets ... the bullet graphic stays there, but it's not *actually* bulleted anymore?
498 13:38 <@sandy> so I'm going to update the wiki page later today to summarize what we've talked about
499 13:38 <@sandy> vern: can you start a page to talk about sync?
500 13:38 < Jayku1> i mean, like, when moving text to a new note
501 13:39 <@sandy> or should I?
502 13:39 <@sandy> basically, what are the big use cases...macine to machine vs machine to server vs machine to devicec, etc
503 13:39 < vern> I'll do XML stuff, but would rather someone else headed the sync stuff
504 13:39 <@sandy> ok
505 13:39 <@sandy> I'll start a separate page for sync
506 13:39 <@sandy> and try to bully you all into editing it
507 13:39 <@sandy> Jc2k: galette plaxx[tomdroid] etc
508 13:39 < vern> yes :)
509 13:40 <@sandy> we can brainstorm about what Tomboy itself should do
510 13:40 <@sandy> what should happen in apps like Conduit
511 13:40 <@sandy> if we can get hosting, if we should, etc
512 13:40 <@sandy> next weekend I'll be preparing our first unstable release of 0.13.x
513 13:40 <@sandy> it will be called 0.13.1
514 13:40 <@sandy> (0.13.0 was the preview Mac/Windows release)
515 13:41 <@sandy> my focus will be on Mac/Windows
516 13:41 <@sandy> and no regressions in Linux
517 13:41 < bojolais> Is there a plan to include Windows/Mac developer howtos on the wiki?
518 13:41 <@sandy> it will be our baseline for the rest of the cycle
519 13:41 <@sandy> bojolais: GREAT IDEA
520 13:41 <@sandy> do youwant to get those started?
521 13:41 <@sandy> I'll at least mention the idea in the meeting summary
522 13:41 < bojolais> Once I'm in possession of the information... sure :)
523 13:42 < Jayku1> You just need the info from the emails on the list about getting GTK# and fixing the mistake in pixbuflib
524 13:42 <@sandy> I admit I care way more about Windows/Mac devs than users at this point
525 13:42 <@sandy> and good news, Novell will be putting out new GTK# windows installers at some point soon
526 13:42 -!- JulioNeto
527 13:42 < Jayku1> and maybe a side note about how easy it is to use AnkhSVN now that it's a proper SCCM plugin
528 13:43 <@sandy> a lot of smart people at N working on fixing the problems in the installers
529 13:43 < vern> \o/
530 13:43 < Jayku1> yay!
531 13:43 <@sandy> we have one of the guys who used to work on it for Medsphere, for example
532 13:43 <@sandy> so this stuff is getting fixed
533 13:43 < Jayku1> I couldn't understand why I needed to install GTK# after installing the MONO SDK...
534 13:43 <@sandy> we don't use Mono
535 13:44 <@sandy> Mono as an entirely separate .NET installation
536 13:44 <@sandy> separate GAC
537 13:44 < Jayku1> yeah
538 13:44 < Jayku1> I'm just saying ...
539 13:44 < Jayku1> these are things I didn't get
540 13:44 <@sandy> good to know
541 13:44 < Jayku1> because you have dependencies on mono stuff
542 13:44 <@sandy> that I bundle, but yeah
543 13:44 < Jayku1> and I expected the Mono SDK to include GTK#
544 13:44 <@sandy> it does...for Mono
545 13:44 <@sandy> :-)
546 13:45 <@sandy> a lot of people wouldn't want to see strange stuff show up in their MS GAC
547 13:45 < Jayku1> right, but it's not registered properly or whatever :-p
548 13:45 < plaxx[tomdroid]> nice to see that .Net as a standart really works
549 13:45 -!- kidk
550 13:45 < eoin> ok gotta run, I'll keep an eye on Mac issues and integration
551 13:45 <@sandy> thanks eoin
552 13:45 -!- eoin
553 13:45 <@sandy> will email you soon
554 13:46 <@sandy> guys, if you didn't know, I stole all the Mac stuff from eoin to get Tomboy to work
555 13:46 <@sandy> he's making Banshee rock on OS X
556 13:46 <@sandy> so looks like themeeeting's over
557 13:46 <@sandy> did anybody else have stuff to bring up?
558 13:46 -!- galette
559 13:47 <@sandy> thanks everybody for coming
560 13:47 <@Jc2k> wizbit rocks, conduit rocks, kthx :P
561 13:47 < vern> thanks sandy!
562 13:47 <@sandy> glad to see everybody's enthusiasm
563 13:47 <@sandy> with the right attitude we can get a lot of great things done
564 13:47 <@sandy> get back to work!
565 13:47 <@sandy> :-)
566 13:47 <@Jc2k> *whip*
567 13:47 < mowestusa> Tomboy is Awesome! I love the blog plug-in to create blog posts out of Tomboy notes. That is a perfect use for Tomboy.
568 13:48 <@sandy> thanks mowestusa, I like that guy's plug-in too
569 13:48 < plaxx[tomdroid]> Long live Tomboy!
570 13:48 < vern> I didn't even know about that
571 13:48 <@sandy> plaxx[tomdroid]: get to work
572 13:48 -!- carlos_
573 13:48 <@sandy> I'm getting a G1 soon
574 13:48 < vern> *addin repositiry* :P
575 13:48 < vern> *repository
576 13:48 <@sandy> vern: I will talk to lluis about that
577 13:49 <@sandy> I think it's totally doable
578 13:49 <@sandy> but I want to be careful
579 13:49 <@sandy> lamalex: I was mad with how Do did theirs
580 13:49 <@sandy> things would disappear
581 13:50 < vern> from the repo or from notes?
582 13:50 <@sandy> repo
583 13:50 -!- plaxx[tomdroid]
584 13:51 -!- carlos_
585 13:52 < mowestusa> sandy, when you speak of Do are you referring to Gnome-Do? Do they have a repo for Ubuntu or something?
586 13:56 <@sandy> mowestusa: yeah, them
587 13:56 <@sandy> their plugins come from a repo they host somewhere
588 13:56 <@sandy> and during the 0.5.x cycle, at one point they just deleted all ofthe plugins for a particular unstable version
589 13:56 <@sandy> and the plugins I had been using every day went away
590 13:57 -!- sandy
591
