16:00:12 #startmeeting 16:00:12 Meeting started Thu Dec 12 16:00:12 2013 CET. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:12 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00:20 #topic 5-min waiting time 16:00:45 wow, a big party, just joanie and tota11y around 16:00:49 tota11y party!! 16:00:49 API: Error: "party!!" is not a valid command. 16:02:05 * clown waves to the crowd of two. 16:02:33 of finally 16:02:35 someone else 16:02:47 totally don't want to party 16:02:57 tota11y, do you want to party? 16:02:57 API: Error: "do" is not a valid command. 16:03:02 yo see? 16:05:25 well, is meeting time 16:05:30 and just tree people 16:05:32 *three 16:06:10 not sure if we should cancel this one 16:06:15 joanie, clown opinions? 16:06:45 I have nothing of great importance to say today, so I could skip it. 16:07:10 * clown looks over ongoing action items. 16:08:03 I'm sick, I'm just coming out of the webkit hackfest, I have an all-day meeting tomorrow, etc. 16:08:07 so I could totally skip 16:10:21 well, three people appeared 16:10:30 so I think that now we have enough people for the meeting 16:10:33 so lets start 16:11:04 agenda is showing dec5, but in any case the topics are the same 16:11:07 #topic Progress towards 3.12 16:11:30 #info API sent a proposal about some API changes on ATK in order to fix the problem 16:11:40 #info of gnome-shell not accessible at all under Wayland 16:11:52 #info probably it was too thick, as no answers at all 16:12:29 #action API will create bugs and patches, hoping that gtk, clutter and gnome-shell developers would be more active looking at patches 16:12:50 #info API sent some mails to the wayland list, this time small mails 16:12:59 #info this time it seems that there are real discussions 16:13:11 #action API will follow up with the discussion 16:13:17 Thanks for letting me know. I guess I should subscribe there. 16:13:45 mgorse, well, I mentioned that some weeks ago 16:13:52 my original mail was sent weeks ago 16:13:56 mgorse, http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/ 16:14:01 * API resuming his summary 16:14:34 #info API attended this week webkitgtk hackfest, due feedback there, he added some new stuff on ATK, that would be available for 3.12 16:14:37 done 16:15:13 yes, it is an important issue, or GNOME 3.12 will be a big failure. Thanks API for caring on this :-) 16:15:18 "thick"? do you mean too many details? Creating bugs/patches is a good way to focus in on specific problems — good idea. 16:15:31 clown, yes, details and long 16:15:36 Yeah. Thanks for sending the email, anyway 16:15:58 anyway, anyone else want to share 3.12 stuff? 16:18:15 well, three minutes and nobody talked 16:18:24 so I think that I will move to next topic 16:18:36 #topic W3C updates 16:18:42 clown? 16:18:45 * clown gathers his thoughts. 16:19:32 #info the formal request to publsih version 1.0 of the ARIA User Agent Implementation Guide was made this last Mon: 16:19:40 #info http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Dec/0009.html 16:20:45 #info the timeline is now: final "candidate recommendation" status by Jan 17, 2014; "proposed recommendation" status by Jan 28, 2014, and all of ARIA 1.0 as "recommendation" in time for CSUN (Mar?). 16:21:50 #info Also, there is a planned face to face meeting to kick off ARIA 1.1 work late in January: 23 − 25th in Toronto: 16:21:59 #info http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Dec/0024.html 16:22:05 done. questions? 16:22:25 last week 16:22:29 if my memory serves me 16:22:43 I think that we mentioned something about 1.1 16:22:59 something about some of the stuff that joanie reviewed to be included there 16:23:30 so I think that I don't get the fully view here 16:24:00 so 1.0 will be finished on january, but approved as recommendation for CSUN 16:24:01 I think you are talking about when her suggested changes to the role mappings will be included. 16:24:07 but at the same time 1.1 will be started on Jan 16:24:29 Yes, 1.1 will have "draft" status in Jan. 16:24:32 so that means that the committe will work on extend 1.0 and extend 1.1 since january at the same time? 16:24:47 Meaning all the stake holders will debate the changes to the spec. 16:25:18 well, is just probably because I'm too used to "finish one version" 16:25:25 and if we are working on the following 16:25:32 just being working on the following 16:25:50 just wanted to confirm that the committee could be doing changes on different versions at the same time 16:25:52 I''m not sure what you mean by "extend". As of now, 1.0 is locked and frozen forever, unless someone higher up on W3C, or one of its members objects strongly to something in there. 16:26:00 ah ok 16:26:11 well, as you put three different deadlines for 1.0 16:26:23 I assumed that that would mean that some changes could occur on it 16:26:53 The number of deadlines has to do with the "red tape" of publishing a spec that the W3C fully endorses. 16:27:23 Regarding changes: there are two types. 16:27:40 Editorial changes (better language, better spelling, etc.) can be made at any time. 16:28:52 Substantive changes, or "normative" changes, where some aspect of the specification is changed are another type of change. 16:29:10 At this point, if there are any substantive changes, the document reverts back to "working draft" status, and must go back to "last call" for comments, which is what we just went through last month. 16:29:49 That will delay the progress to "recommendation" upwards of six months from now. 16:30:09 In other words, substantive changes are deadly for a 1.0 release as this point of the process. 16:30:28 ok, thanks for the explanation 16:30:50 1.0 frozen as a wisdom source, grammar typos can be still corrected 16:30:57 That's why we asked the gnome a11y group that, while we acknowledge that there at better roles not in ATK/AT-SPI, we won't change until 1.1 16:31:19 *now in ATK/AT-SPI. 16:31:39 ok 16:31:51 so, more questions, doubts, comments? 16:32:03 nop 16:32:20 in summary, the process now is for "higher ups" in the W3C to do a last double check. 16:32:39 ok 16:32:49 they are waiting for pressing the publish button :-) 16:32:58 right jjmarin. 16:33:07 red button 16:33:14 anyway, not still in misc time 16:33:15 :-) 16:33:21 ok if I move to next topic? 16:33:33 also, there are some sections in the UAIG currently marked "at risk", because we don't have 2 implementations yet. 16:34:08 But, we might by Jan 17. If not, those section will be removed, and can be removed because we warned the "higher ups" of the problem. 16:34:40 ok 16:35:17 i'm done now. 16:35:29 ok 16:35:32 so moving 16:35:43 #topic Marketing 16:35:47 jjmarin, ? 16:35:47 #info No news from the marketing front this week 16:35:52 :-) 16:36:21 then moving again 16:36:30 ok 16:36:33 #topic Miscellaneous time 16:36:40 so something not scheduled to mention? 16:37:02 API, do you mind to be invited in a podcast ? 16:37:59 uh 16:38:09 could you elaborate that? 16:38:23 just to tald about a11y, gnome, webkit, igalia 16:39:12 I'm talking about a Spanish podcast about linux 16:39:23 but is a webpage, gnome hispano? 16:39:39 http://www.daboblog.com/2013/11/22/daboblog-podcast-kernel-panic-numero-41/ 16:40:12 they talked about Debian temporary decision and I reply in the comments 16:40:47 This is the only Linux podcast I know in Spanish 16:40:48 well, ok, I guess that I could do it 16:40:59 lets talk about the details later off-meeting 16:41:04 * clown likes jjmarin's avatar. 16:41:08 ok 16:41:11 :-) 16:41:42 so having said so 16:41:47 more miscellaneous stuff? 16:43:11 Have the Webkit haskfest finished, or are you and joanie still in the after hackfest ? 16:43:23 good question. 16:43:26 Any meeting notes? 16:43:32 blogs? 16:44:08 I usually note the post about the hackfest here https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/WebKitGTK2013 16:44:21 well, the hackfest finished yesterday 16:44:24 hmm 16:44:32 probably a topic for that would be relevant 16:44:34 I will do it now 16:44:45 #info This week was webkitgtk hackfest 16:45:07 #info this year people working on a11y stuff were as usually joannmarie, Mario Sanchez and Alejandro Piñeiro 16:45:32 #info Joanmarie working on improving the testing/layout testing, giving feedback to Mario and others 16:45:57 #info Mario was working on getting more notifications when an accessible child appear/disapper and also improved the role support 16:46:04 #info no more ROLE_UNKNOWN!! 16:46:40 #info API was the ATK guy, adding some stuff on ATK and also talking about the new stuff on ATK that could be added to WebkitGTK 16:46:48 and I think that this is enough 16:46:53 so, questions, doubts? 16:47:02 Does "no more ROLE_UNKNOWN" mean (1) ROLE_UNKNOWN is deprecated in ATK and AT-SPI or (2) WebKitGTK will NOT use ROLE_UNKNOWN anywhere? 16:47:16 clown, means that in several places of webkitgtk 16:47:20 role_unknown was used 16:47:25 role_unknown is not deprecated 16:47:27 but in general 16:47:40 a browser should know what they have in hands 16:48:00 so now, all objects has a role with meaning 16:48:42 dududa 16:48:42 thanks for the explanation, API. 16:48:48 clown, you are welcome 16:48:56 so, more questions or doubts? 16:49:04 dududa mapst to ROLE_UNKNOWN :-) 16:49:16 :-) 16:49:36 I will take that as "no" 16:49:39 .P 16:49:41 so we're done :-) 16:49:42 so closing meeting 16:49:47 thanks everybody 16:49:49 thanks API 16:49:51 #endmeeting