Attachment '20131024_log.txt'
Download 1 16:00:27 <API> #startmeeting
2 16:00:27 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Oct 24 16:00:27 2013 CET. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
3 16:00:27 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
4 16:00:41 <API> #topic 5 minutes of margin before real meeting starts
5 16:00:59 <API> meanwhile we wait
6 16:01:14 <API> H115, could you introduce yourself? I think that we didn't meet before
7 16:05:19 <jjmarin> Hi !
8 16:05:37 <jjmarin> Is there meeting today ?
9 16:05:55 <joanie> i didn't have time to do the minutes or agenda
10 16:05:56 <joanie> sorry
11 16:05:57 <joanie> but yes
12 16:06:04 * joanie has been busy hacking
13 16:06:13 * clown waves
14 16:06:21 <jjmarin> hi clown !
15 16:06:47 <jjmarin> joanie: don't worry. I've been diconnected for a while
16 16:07:53 <clown> the agenda is old. or, at leat this one is: https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings#Agenda_for_the_Next_Meeting_.2817_October.29
17 16:07:57 <API> well, today we gave 2 extra minutes
18 16:08:10 <joanie> 16:05:55 <@joanie> i didn't have time to do the minutes or agenda
19 16:08:10 <joanie> 16:05:55 <@joanie> sorry
20 16:08:12 <API> clown, this is what you happen when you arrive late ;)
21 16:08:26 <clown> i can live with that, API :-)
22 16:08:28 <API> in any case, we will reuse the agenda of last week
23 16:08:34 <API> and having said so
24 16:08:41 * clown looks foward to boston summit recap.
25 16:08:53 * clown ;-)
26 16:08:59 <API> well, reuse except for the boston summit
27 16:09:15 <API> I will tweak a little that
28 16:09:29 <API> #topic Wayland situation
29 16:09:52 <API> #info Wayland ml threads are ongoing but without too much activity
30 16:10:01 <API> #info probably it would be good to ping in order to reactivate the fire
31 16:10:29 <API> #info joanie has been working on keep testing wayland, she can provide more details later
32 16:10:35 <joanie> heh
33 16:11:01 <API> #info joanie+API have been talking about the solution of gnome-shell under wayland, that is in short solve the multi-toolkit atk implementation problem
34 16:11:30 <API> #info API will send a email explaining his proposal, and asking for suggestions
35 16:11:39 <API> and nothing more from my side
36 16:11:41 <API> joanie¿
37 16:11:46 <API> joanie?
38 16:11:51 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710470
39 16:11:51 <tota11y> 04Bug 710470: critical, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Wayland: Reliable crash when typing in a text view with the magnifier enabled
40 16:12:13 <joanie> also found https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=705504
41 16:12:13 <tota11y> 04Bug 705504: normal, Normal, ---, amigadave, NEW, 3.10: make on-screen keyboard work under wayland
42 16:12:31 <joanie> so on top of the multi toolkit stuff, we have non-functional mag and osk
43 16:12:39 <joanie> https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility/Wayland
44 16:12:46 <joanie> is where all updates are going
45 16:12:49 <joanie> at least those from me
46 16:12:58 <joanie> lastly
47 16:13:15 <API> ah true, that wiki page is new
48 16:13:21 <joanie> #info We will also need a wayland equivalent of xmodmap (i.e. someway to change keymapping)
49 16:13:38 <joanie> There was a possibly-related set of patches I saw on the Wayland list
50 16:13:46 <joanie> but I didn't look at them other than to take note
51 16:13:54 <joanie> anyhoo, I think that's it from me
52 16:14:06 <joanie> oh one more thing
53 16:14:10 <jjmarin> it seems Wayland is going to be the source of many headaches :-/
54 16:14:15 <joanie> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-devel/2013-October/msg00010.html
55 16:14:18 <joanie> crickets
56 16:14:25 <joanie> now I'm done
57 16:14:27 <joanie> :)
58 16:14:43 * API looking
59 16:14:53 <API> ah well, yes
60 16:15:00 <API> that is one of the threads that need a ping
61 16:15:05 <API> in any case
62 16:15:15 <API> questions, comments doubts?
63 16:15:26 <joanie> are you going to ping API?
64 16:15:34 <joanie> my pings tend to go ignored
65 16:15:39 <API> I'm going to ping myself?
66 16:15:51 <jjmarin> yes !!! :-)
67 16:15:53 * clown is surprsed that accerciser dies with wayland backend.
68 16:15:54 <joanie> yes API that's exactly what I meant
69 16:15:56 <joanie> :P
70 16:16:07 <joanie> clown: nah, it's the wnck crap
71 16:16:18 <joanie> wnck's gotta go
72 16:16:19 <clown> "wnck" ?
73 16:16:21 <API> in any case, just in case you were meaning other thing, yes, I was planning to send the pings
74 16:16:41 <joanie> https://developer.gnome.org/libwnck/stable/overview.html
75 16:16:46 <joanie> accerciser uses it
76 16:16:48 <joanie> orca sorta does
77 16:17:02 <joanie> I removed the stuff that causes the segfault from orca
78 16:17:08 <joanie> but that means a feature is broken
79 16:17:17 <joanie> and that is what the ml thread is about
80 16:17:24 <joanie> the zorder stuff
81 16:17:43 <joanie> (done I think)
82 16:18:05 <clown> I recall that gnome-shell has its own window manager, but I don't know if the functionality there is the same as for libwnck
83 16:18:14 <API> well, with wayland
84 16:18:22 <API> gnome-shell will be the wayland compositor
85 16:18:31 <API> that, as far as I understand, is somehting
86 16:18:44 <API> like gnome-shell being an implemention of X
87 16:18:48 <API> in general
88 16:18:49 <API> with wayland
89 16:18:54 <API> wayland is "smaller"
90 16:19:02 <API> and a lot of stuff is delegated to the clients
91 16:19:23 <API> this raise a lot of questions about stuff that should be the same in any wayland
92 16:19:26 <API> like a11y
93 16:19:52 <API> ideally I would like to avoid kde+wayland needing to re-implement a lot of stuff
94 16:19:59 <API> in any case, and after this rant
95 16:20:06 <API> moving to next point?
96 16:20:30 <jjmarin> why do you mention kde ?
97 16:21:25 <API> jjmarin, well, because I guess that eventually
98 16:21:30 <API> kde will also move to wayland
99 16:21:34 <API> it was just an example
100 16:21:56 <API> what I mean is that I assume that gnome-shell will not be the only wayland environment we will find
101 16:22:05 <API> but as far as I see, some of the solutions people are proposing
102 16:22:09 <API> are gnome-shell specific
103 16:22:23 <jjmarin> ok, I thought it was about to implement sth in common with kde
104 16:22:37 <API> well, at this moment we have enough with gnome ;)
105 16:22:46 <API> but as some threads are at the wayland ml
106 16:22:54 <jjmarin> hehe, true :-)
107 16:23:09 <API> ideally it would be good an answer like "oh yes, you can use this method on wayland to do that"
108 16:23:27 <API> instead of "well, that seems like something the specific compositor should provide"
109 16:23:56 <API> having said so
110 16:24:03 <API> #topic 3.12 updates
111 16:24:21 <API> #info the situation haven't changed too much since last meeting
112 16:24:28 <API> #info you can read it as soon as minutes are available
113 16:24:40 <API> #info just mention one tasks that I forgot to mention on that meeting
114 16:24:46 <API> #info Medium: PDF accessibility
115 16:24:56 <API> #info PDF accessibility improvements are also planned for 3.12
116 16:24:58 <API> done
117 16:25:10 <API> I know that it is somewhat lazy point to previous meeting
118 16:25:26 <joanie> any updates on the at-spi2 worker thread stuff?
119 16:25:27 <API> but not a lot happened since last week, so it would be just repeating myself
120 16:25:32 <API> mgorse, ^
121 16:25:50 <API> mgorse, not sure if you are waiting more input from the list
122 16:25:57 <API> from the last emails
123 16:26:05 <API> there are still some open questions, afaik
124 16:26:19 <API> so not sure if you took a look, in order to have a clearer idea/proposal
125 16:26:56 <mgorse> Hmm. There might be. I've started working on adding the ability to send properties with events
126 16:27:14 <mgorse> Anyway, yeah, probably I should come up with a more definite API and propose it
127 16:27:50 <API> mgorse, ok, I will wait for that proposal
128 16:28:01 <API> I'm curious to see how some tricky stuff would be managed
129 16:28:34 <API> like for example, how to request on the event the offsets for a substring
130 16:28:36 <mgorse> #action mgorse will propose more specific API for being asynchronous and email the list
131 16:28:50 <API> mgorse, ok, thank you very much
132 16:29:55 <mgorse> It might need some iterations; there could be cases that it should handle that we'll need to figure out
133 16:30:02 <API> yes,
134 16:30:12 <API> obviously this will not be trivial
135 16:30:24 <API> for the same reason is good start it at the beginning of the cycle
136 16:30:45 <mgorse> right
137 16:30:50 <API> and probably at-spi2 will add some API, and when Orca start to use it, we will find things to refine
138 16:30:56 <API> this is sw after all
139 16:31:14 <API> in any case
140 16:31:20 <API> more on this topic?
141 16:31:23 <API> questions, doubts?
142 16:33:25 <API> #topic W3C updates
143 16:33:27 <API> clown?
144 16:33:59 <clown> no news this week.
145 16:34:23 <clown> Just a lot of edits to documents/tests.
146 16:34:29 <clown> is that worth info'ing?
147 16:35:28 <API> yes,
148 16:35:36 <API> we are in the topic so ...
149 16:35:44 <clown> oky doky
150 16:36:57 <clown> #info Fnal edits and tests are being done to/for the User Agent Implementation Guide
151 16:37:19 <clown> #info The purpose of these final changes is to go "last call" by early November.
152 16:37:28 <clown> questions?
153 16:37:43 <API> nope from my side
154 16:37:58 <jjmarin> me neither
155 16:38:36 <clown> does joanie have any updates re: W3C and her (almost?) new found expert status?
156 16:38:44 <joanie> not yet
157 16:38:46 <joanie> been busy
158 16:38:47 <joanie> sorry
159 16:38:58 <clown> no problem. Just curious.
160 16:39:10 <jjmarin> how much expertise in this meeting :-)
161 16:39:18 <joanie> i promise to share the news when we have news to share :)
162 16:39:37 <API> ok, so then lets move
163 16:39:41 <API> #topic Marketing
164 16:39:46 <clown> jjmarin: a very small number ??
165 16:39:46 <API> jjmarin, your turn
166 16:39:59 <jjmarin> #info the marketing front is very quite lately, just a tweet or something like that AFAIR
167 16:40:08 <jjmarin> I've been sick at home, but I want start something in the next days.
168 16:40:14 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will start to update in the gnome a11y content in the wikipedia
169 16:40:30 <jjmarin> do you want anything more marketing ?
170 16:40:33 <jjmarin> :-)
171 16:41:04 <jjmarin> done ! unless you have qestions or suggestions
172 16:41:56 <API> jjmarin, just curious, do you usually attend marketing meetings, or just collaborate with them when accessibility needs to be managed?
173 16:42:49 <jjmarin> I don't like phone meetings, but I am in the engagement irc meetings when possible
174 16:43:25 <API> jjmarin, do they meet regularly or when they think that need to talk about something?
175 16:43:38 <API> (btw, didn't know that were phone meetings)
176 16:44:08 <jjmarin> lately the phone meeting doesn't work, so they turn irc meetings
177 16:44:26 <jjmarin> it is supposed to be bi-weekly
178 16:44:33 <API> ok, thank you
179 16:44:36 <jjmarin> but it is not very regular
180 16:44:42 <API> that fulfill my curiosity
181 16:44:48 <jjmarin> Today there is a meeting
182 16:45:05 <API> uh, so not bi-weekly, but "bi-weekly"
183 16:45:22 <API> in any case, I already bothered enough with questions, any other?
184 16:46:01 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
185 16:46:11 <API> something not scheduled to talk about?
186 16:46:44 <joanie> mgorse: in terms of reimbursement for your trip to montreal, I'll need scanned receipts and a blog post that explicitly thanks gnome for sponsoring you
187 16:47:07 <joanie> bonus points for a blog post that sounds like we accomplished many things
188 16:48:27 <jjmarin> I am curious about the status about the task for homogenizing the keyboard navigation within GNOME shell and widgets
189 16:48:41 <API> look at the sky, a bird!
190 16:48:44 * API running away
191 16:48:53 <API> jjmarin, jokes apart
192 16:48:54 <clown> nah, that's bat!
193 16:49:08 <API> yes I need to write that, and send a email to d_d-l
194 16:49:14 <API> *d-d-l
195 16:49:21 <jjmarin> :-)
196 16:49:41 * jjmarin was looking the sky :-)
197 16:50:02 <API> good, birds are animals to be care of
198 16:50:16 <API> well, I think that birds was miscelleanous enough
199 16:50:21 <API> so I will close the meeting
200 16:50:32 <API> #endmeeting
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