1 16:05:36 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:05:36 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jun 27 16:05:36 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:05:36 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:05:55 <API> #topic GSoC updates
   5 16:05:59 <API> clown, Magpie ?
   6 16:06:26 <clown> Magpie, you go first — summarize you last week.
   7 16:06:30 <clown> "your"
   8 16:08:37 <clown> let me add a bit.
   9 16:09:05 <clown> #info After the Magdalen's success last week, Joseph noticed the tracker was too public.
  10 16:09:18 <clown> #info that was useful for debugging.
  11 16:09:51 <clown> #info he suggested a way to hide most of the Atspi registry code from the outside world.
  12 16:10:14 <clown> #info clients just deal with standard signal handling now:  connect(), disconnect().
  13 16:10:18 <clown> (done).
  14 16:11:07 <clown> no problem — gave me something to write :-)
  15 16:11:17 <clown> questions?
  16 16:11:44 <joanie> paper. yay!
  17 16:11:48 <jjmarin> :)
  18 16:11:55 <joanie> I still use paper and pen
  19 16:12:01 <joanie> API does too
  20 16:12:03 <clown> a reward for breaking your machine a record number times...
  21 16:12:09 <joanie> hahaha
  22 16:12:50 <API> just a question
  23 16:12:59 <API> clown, what do you mean that the tracker was too public?
  24 16:13:36 <clown> there were methods for registering/derigistering with atspi registry that anyone could call.
  25 16:13:51 <clown> imagine two clients listening, say, for focus events.
  26 16:14:17 <clown> then one of the clients decides to tell the focus tracker to deregister from atspi.
  27 16:14:28 <clown> suddenly, the other client stops getting any focus events.
  28 16:14:38 <clown> that scenario shouldn't happen any more.
  29 16:15:17 <clown> make sense, API?
  30 16:15:29 <API> Magpie, well right now is really easy to write an atspi based keylogger
  31 16:15:31 <API> in any case
  32 16:15:36 <API> clown, yes makes sense
  33 16:15:40 <API> thanks for the explanation
  34 16:15:58 <clown> I guess, we should say something about immediate next steps.
  35 16:16:06 <API> clown, yes please
  36 16:16:10 <clown> #info Joseph will read the logs and see if all is okay.
  37 16:16:26 <clown> #info Magdalen did send email about not receiving focus events for tabs.
  38 16:16:56 <clown> #info Joseph forwarded that email to joanie, API, and jjmarin for their input.
  39 16:17:25 <clown> #info "We" need to investigate that issue and see what is going on.
  40 16:17:49 <API> clown, yeah I saw some emails from the "gsoc front", sorry, I didn't have time to read/answer them yet
  41 16:17:51 <clown> so, when you switch from tab to tab in a tabbed panel, what event is sent out?
  42 16:18:18 <clown> Buttons?  Buttons definitely emit focus changed events.
  43 16:18:52 <clown> well, it worked before.  event before the freeze was fixed.
  44 16:19:01 <clown> "even before the freeze was fixed"
  45 16:19:12 <clown> and it worked with magFocusTracker.py.
  46 16:19:37 <clown> yup.
  47 16:19:48 <clown> I''ll look too if I get a chance.
  48 16:21:08 <clown> oh, another thing that I keep forgetting to ask — remind me for after the meeting Magpie.
  49 16:21:28 <clown> But, are you pathing the latest main.js and makefile.am from the gnome-shell project?
  50 16:21:40 <clown> "to ask".
  51 16:21:47 <clown> cool.  done, then.
  52 16:22:20 <API> ok, so thanks for all the current status summary and next steps
  53 16:22:27 <API> anyone has more questions or doubts?
  54 16:23:40 <API> ok, so I think that it would be safe to move on
  55 16:23:52 <API> #topic W3C updates
  56 16:23:55 <API> clown, ?
  57 16:24:11 <clown> no news really.
  58 16:24:22 <clown> "things are progressing"
  59 16:25:14 <API> ok
  60 16:25:15 <clown> #info No important news on W3C accessibility activity.
  61 16:25:16 <API> in any case
  62 16:25:22 <API> recently I catched this bug on webkit:
  63 16:25:25 <API> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117367
  64 16:25:25 <tota11y> 04Bug 117367: Normal, P2, ---, cfleizach@apple.com, RESOLVED FIXED, IndieUI: Add basic IndieUI infrastructure
  65 16:25:42 <API> as some said
  66 16:25:57 <API> there isn't too much about why this is being added
  67 16:26:02 <API> and who is pushing for that
  68 16:26:45 <clown> interesting…  I have not been to an IndieUI meeting since around last Nov.  No time.
  69 16:27:10 <API> ah ok
  70 16:27:18 <API> I thought that you were still there
  71 16:27:20 <API> but in any case
  72 16:27:42 <API> it seems that the group is pushing to
  73 16:27:49 <API> get stuff introduced on webkit
  74 16:28:10 <clown> for a change, FF is not the vanguard?
  75 16:28:41 <API> heh
  76 16:28:42 <API> it seems
  77 16:28:46 <API> now that I look
  78 16:28:51 <API> it is explained on the changelog
  79 16:28:53 <API> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/151827
  80 16:29:08 <API> so in any case for minutes sake
  81 16:29:48 <API> #info API checked that WebKit is already implementing some of the stuff proposed by the IndieUI W3C group
  82 16:29:53 <API> #info http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/151827
  83 16:29:55 <API> in any case
  84 16:30:02 <API> although the Changelog calls it "standard"
  85 16:30:18 <API> I think that it will not receive that label until it get three implementations
  86 16:30:20 <API> clown, right?
  87 16:30:33 <API> ah well, Changelog calls it spec
  88 16:30:35 <API> not standard
  89 16:30:44 <clown> two implementations.
  90 16:30:56 <clown> and, at the moment, W3C calls it a "Draft Standard".
  91 16:31:14 <API> ok
  92 16:31:27 <API> anyway, it is good seeing that is getting implemented so early
  93 16:31:38 <clown> What they want to get to is something called a "Candidate Recommendation", and in order for that, W3C needs to show that it can be implemented in at least two user agents.
  94 16:31:42 <API> imho, is the best way to get the proper feedback from implementors
  95 16:32:08 <clown> yes, it's good to get something implemented AND tested from the beginning.
  96 16:32:26 <API> and taking into account that Chris got it implemented
  97 16:32:29 <clown> instead of leaving all of the testing to the end (like another spec did).
  98 16:32:31 <API> at least some of the stuff
  99 16:32:37 <API> seems to be implementable
 100 16:32:43 <API> in any case
 101 16:32:50 <API> more comments, doubts, questions on this topic?
 102 16:34:31 <jjmarin> me neither
 103 16:34:44 <API> #topic Marketing
 104 16:34:47 <API> jjmarin, ?
 105 16:34:58 <jjmarin> #info The GNOME Accessibility bid winner was announced http://www.gnome.org/news/2013/06/gnome-accessibility-bid-selected/
 106 16:35:20 <clown> i've heard of them.
 107 16:35:28 <joanie> heh
 108 16:35:45 <jjmarin> #info Karen Sandler asked Juanjo to add a quotation for the announcement
 109 16:36:23 <API> quotation?
 110 16:36:39 <jjmarin> Juanjo's words
 111 16:36:46 <clown> "It was an honor to participate in the volunteer committee and collaborate with this group of top-notch accessibility professionals. We all agree that Igalia presented an excellent bid and we are confident that they have the knowledge and experience to successfully address accessibility support for pdfs," said Juanjo Marín,"
 112 16:36:57 <jjmarin> exactly :)
 113 16:37:24 <jjmarin> clown was one of such professionals :)
 114 16:37:35 * clown blushes
 115 16:37:55 <jjmarin> :)
 116 16:38:07 <API> ok
 117 16:39:27 <jjmarin> I am thinking to write to ananconda folks to inform the about the a11y BoF in GUADEC
 118 16:39:40 <API> jjmarin, would make sense
 119 16:39:58 <jjmarin> 6 august is the day or it is not set in stone by now
 120 16:40:10 <joanie> jjmarin: it's the 6th or it ain't happening
 121 16:40:22 <joanie> but the date is not officially set in stone
 122 16:40:34 <joanie> there has been no response or updates from the papers committee
 123 16:40:38 <joanie> or change on the BoF page
 124 16:41:29 * clown wonders if we changed the topic.
 125 16:41:47 <jjmarin> it seems rooms are very big
 126 16:42:05 <jjmarin> 70 seats the small one
 127 16:42:13 <clown> likely true, Magpie
 128 16:42:46 <API> clown, the topic just got diverted a little
 129 16:42:54 <API> in anycase
 130 16:43:12 <API> jjmarin, you could send a initial mail saying 6th
 131 16:43:23 <API> that although it was not "accepted"
 132 16:43:29 <API> if happens, will happen that day
 133 16:43:45 <API> Magpie, what do you mean?
 134 16:44:03 <joanie> I sincerely doubt it will be denied
 135 16:44:43 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will write to the anaconda team to inform the about the plans for an a11y BoF in GUADEC 6th august
 136 16:45:08 <API> Magpie, ah ok, in any case, as joanie said, it will really unlikely to be denied
 137 16:45:19 <API> and after jjmarin action,
 138 16:45:34 <API> #topic "Miscellaneous Time"
 139 16:45:49 <API> someone wants to mention something not previously scheduled?
 140 16:46:31 * jjmarin is taking a look to the accessibility of the gnome-initial-setup
 141 16:46:45 <clown> gnome-initial-setup?
 142 16:47:18 <jjmarin> yes, it is a form when you enter in the system for the first time
 143 16:47:41 <clown> I don't recall seeing it.
 144 16:47:46 <clown> interesting.
 145 16:47:47 <jjmarin> and you you choose language, keyboard layout, wiki, etc
 146 16:48:03 <clown> oh, that.  Now I get what you are talking about.
 147 16:48:05 <jjmarin> wifi, not wiki :)
 148 16:48:12 <API> clown, is a kind of "lets generalize the welcome wizard"
 149 16:48:20 <clown> right, API
 150 16:48:25 <API> like iphone and a lot of smartphones have this days
 151 16:48:35 <clown> and Macs.
 152 16:49:11 <jhernandez> and what about the distribution installers? are they supposed to remove these configuration terms?
 153 16:49:46 * joanie coughs "not an upstream problem"
 154 16:49:52 <jhernandez> joanie: heh
 155 16:49:53 <jhernandez> i know
 156 16:49:55 <jhernandez> is up to thwm
 157 16:49:55 <API> jhernandez, well, that was one of the questions when the feature was proposed
 158 16:49:58 <jhernandez> *them
 159 16:50:10 <API> yes, coughing answer was more or less what was answered
 160 16:50:24 <clown> everyone needs cough syrup?
 161 16:50:25 <jhernandez> ok ok
 162 16:50:28 <jjmarin> jhernandez:  they can adapt it or replace it
 163 16:50:40 <API> something like "we as upstream love our users, this is relevant to the users, we want to provide them a user experience" and some more pretty words
 164 16:50:40 * jhernandez coughs
 165 16:51:00 <jhernandez> ok ok
 166 16:51:11 <clown> so, tell us what you really think, API. :-)
 167 16:51:20 <jhernandez> clown: API coughs
 168 16:51:21 <jhernandez> :P
 169 16:51:25 <API> in any case, this was proposed some iterations ago
 170 16:51:35 <API> jhernandez, this is the feature proposed
 171 16:51:36 <API> https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/InitialSetup
 172 16:51:52 <jhernandez> API: thanks
 173 16:51:56 <jjmarin> it finishes with a "Start GNOME" button (it is suppose you can modify) and a video with music without captions that open yelp
 174 16:52:02 <API> in any case
 175 16:52:15 <API> this is useful if more than one user is using the computer
 176 16:52:25 <API> although with the first user
 177 16:52:30 <API> it is true that initial-setup
 178 16:52:36 <API> overlaps with distro initialization
 179 16:52:42 <API> for the following use case:
 180 16:52:49 <API> * shared computer
 181 16:52:53 <API> * user2 added
 182 16:53:08 <API> * user2 needs to do a initial setup
 183 16:53:18 <jjmarin> API: I think the interesting part is that there are some UI patterns we need to address to be accessible by default if possible
 184 16:53:20 <API> that initial setup thing is useful, imho
 185 16:53:49 <API> Magpie, no, nobody said that they were not interested on a11y
 186 16:53:49 <API> in fact
 187 16:53:54 <API> on last year design hackfest
 188 16:53:57 <API> just before
 189 16:54:00 <API> guadec
 190 16:54:06 <API> with the first drafts of the feature
 191 16:54:12 <API> they were taking into account
 192 16:54:16 <API> accessibility related stuff
 193 16:54:23 <API> like having the accessibility icon at the panel
 194 16:54:29 <API> keyboard navigation
 195 16:54:30 <API> and so on
 196 16:54:34 <API> summarizing
 197 16:55:01 <API> 1. what is doing jjmarin is good, as he is testing this on the early stages (thanks)
 198 16:55:39 <API> 2. Although it is true that overlaps a little with the distro installers, there are cases where (in API humble opinion) is not related with distro installers, and it is still useful
 199 16:56:02 <API> 2.1 In any case, as it seems that it would be added, it needs to be accessible (see 1.)
 200 16:56:38 <API> Magpie, ?
 201 16:57:53 <API> Magpie, hmm, but that part is admin sys work
 202 16:58:00 <API> or specifically
 203 16:58:09 <API> on my previous "shared computer example"
 204 16:58:18 <API> when someone adds a new user
 205 16:58:33 <API> the admin  will provide the proper grants
 206 16:58:42 <API> sudoers, imho, is not a user setting
 207 16:58:57 <API> is about how much "power" do you have
 208 16:59:43 <API> anyway, is somewhat unrelated here
 209 17:00:02 <API> so as it is already meeting over time
 210 17:00:19 <API> I think that I will end the meeting
 211 17:00:38 <API> #endmeeting