16:05:36 <API> #startmeeting
16:05:36 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jun 27 16:05:36 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:05:36 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:05:55 <API> #topic GSoC updates
16:05:59 <API> clown, Magpie ?
16:06:26 <clown> Magpie, you go first — summarize you last week.
16:06:30 <clown> "your"
16:08:37 <clown> let me add a bit.
16:09:05 <clown> #info After the Magdalen's success last week, Joseph noticed the tracker was too public.
16:09:18 <clown> #info that was useful for debugging.
16:09:51 <clown> #info he suggested a way to hide most of the Atspi registry code from the outside world.
16:10:14 <clown> #info clients just deal with standard signal handling now:  connect(), disconnect().
16:10:18 <clown> (done).
16:11:07 <clown> no problem — gave me something to write :-)
16:11:17 <clown> questions?
16:11:44 <joanie> paper. yay!
16:11:48 <jjmarin> :)
16:11:55 <joanie> I still use paper and pen
16:12:01 <joanie> API does too
16:12:03 <clown> a reward for breaking your machine a record number times...
16:12:09 <joanie> hahaha
16:12:50 <API> just a question
16:12:59 <API> clown, what do you mean that the tracker was too public?
16:13:36 <clown> there were methods for registering/derigistering with atspi registry that anyone could call.
16:13:51 <clown> imagine two clients listening, say, for focus events.
16:14:17 <clown> then one of the clients decides to tell the focus tracker to deregister from atspi.
16:14:28 <clown> suddenly, the other client stops getting any focus events.
16:14:38 <clown> that scenario shouldn't happen any more.
16:15:17 <clown> make sense, API?
16:15:29 <API> Magpie, well right now is really easy to write an atspi based keylogger
16:15:31 <API> in any case
16:15:36 <API> clown, yes makes sense
16:15:40 <API> thanks for the explanation
16:15:58 <clown> I guess, we should say something about immediate next steps.
16:16:06 <API> clown, yes please
16:16:10 <clown> #info Joseph will read the logs and see if all is okay.
16:16:26 <clown> #info Magdalen did send email about not receiving focus events for tabs.
16:16:56 <clown> #info Joseph forwarded that email to joanie, API, and jjmarin for their input.
16:17:25 <clown> #info "We" need to investigate that issue and see what is going on.
16:17:49 <API> clown, yeah I saw some emails from the "gsoc front", sorry, I didn't have time to read/answer them yet
16:17:51 <clown> so, when you switch from tab to tab in a tabbed panel, what event is sent out?
16:18:18 <clown> Buttons?  Buttons definitely emit focus changed events.
16:18:52 <clown> well, it worked before.  event before the freeze was fixed.
16:19:01 <clown> "even before the freeze was fixed"
16:19:12 <clown> and it worked with magFocusTracker.py.
16:19:37 <clown> yup.
16:19:48 <clown> I''ll look too if I get a chance.
16:21:08 <clown> oh, another thing that I keep forgetting to ask — remind me for after the meeting Magpie.
16:21:28 <clown> But, are you pathing the latest main.js and makefile.am from the gnome-shell project?
16:21:40 <clown> "to ask".
16:21:47 <clown> cool.  done, then.
16:22:20 <API> ok, so thanks for all the current status summary and next steps
16:22:27 <API> anyone has more questions or doubts?
16:23:40 <API> ok, so I think that it would be safe to move on
16:23:52 <API> #topic W3C updates
16:23:55 <API> clown, ?
16:24:11 <clown> no news really.
16:24:22 <clown> "things are progressing"
16:25:14 <API> ok
16:25:15 <clown> #info No important news on W3C accessibility activity.
16:25:16 <API> in any case
16:25:22 <API> recently I catched this bug on webkit:
16:25:25 <API> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117367
16:25:25 <tota11y> 04Bug 117367: Normal, P2, ---, cfleizach@apple.com, RESOLVED FIXED, IndieUI: Add basic IndieUI infrastructure
16:25:42 <API> as some said
16:25:57 <API> there isn't too much about why this is being added
16:26:02 <API> and who is pushing for that
16:26:45 <clown> interesting…  I have not been to an IndieUI meeting since around last Nov.  No time.
16:27:10 <API> ah ok
16:27:18 <API> I thought that you were still there
16:27:20 <API> but in any case
16:27:42 <API> it seems that the group is pushing to
16:27:49 <API> get stuff introduced on webkit
16:28:10 <clown> for a change, FF is not the vanguard?
16:28:41 <API> heh
16:28:42 <API> it seems
16:28:46 <API> now that I look
16:28:51 <API> it is explained on the changelog
16:28:53 <API> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/151827
16:29:08 <API> so in any case for minutes sake
16:29:48 <API> #info API checked that WebKit is already implementing some of the stuff proposed by the IndieUI W3C group
16:29:53 <API> #info http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/151827
16:29:55 <API> in any case
16:30:02 <API> although the Changelog calls it "standard"
16:30:18 <API> I think that it will not receive that label until it get three implementations
16:30:20 <API> clown, right?
16:30:33 <API> ah well, Changelog calls it spec
16:30:35 <API> not standard
16:30:44 <clown> two implementations.
16:30:56 <clown> and, at the moment, W3C calls it a "Draft Standard".
16:31:14 <API> ok
16:31:27 <API> anyway, it is good seeing that is getting implemented so early
16:31:38 <clown> What they want to get to is something called a "Candidate Recommendation", and in order for that, W3C needs to show that it can be implemented in at least two user agents.
16:31:42 <API> imho, is the best way to get the proper feedback from implementors
16:32:08 <clown> yes, it's good to get something implemented AND tested from the beginning.
16:32:26 <API> and taking into account that Chris got it implemented
16:32:29 <clown> instead of leaving all of the testing to the end (like another spec did).
16:32:31 <API> at least some of the stuff
16:32:37 <API> seems to be implementable
16:32:43 <API> in any case
16:32:50 <API> more comments, doubts, questions on this topic?
16:34:31 <jjmarin> me neither
16:34:44 <API> #topic Marketing
16:34:47 <API> jjmarin, ?
16:34:58 <jjmarin> #info The GNOME Accessibility bid winner was announced http://www.gnome.org/news/2013/06/gnome-accessibility-bid-selected/
16:35:20 <clown> i've heard of them.
16:35:28 <joanie> heh
16:35:45 <jjmarin> #info Karen Sandler asked Juanjo to add a quotation for the announcement
16:36:23 <API> quotation?
16:36:39 <jjmarin> Juanjo's words
16:36:46 <clown> "It was an honor to participate in the volunteer committee and collaborate with this group of top-notch accessibility professionals. We all agree that Igalia presented an excellent bid and we are confident that they have the knowledge and experience to successfully address accessibility support for pdfs," said Juanjo Marín,"
16:36:57 <jjmarin> exactly :)
16:37:24 <jjmarin> clown was one of such professionals :)
16:37:35 * clown blushes
16:37:55 <jjmarin> :)
16:38:07 <API> ok
16:39:27 <jjmarin> I am thinking to write to ananconda folks to inform the about the a11y BoF in GUADEC
16:39:40 <API> jjmarin, would make sense
16:39:58 <jjmarin> 6 august is the day or it is not set in stone by now
16:40:10 <joanie> jjmarin: it's the 6th or it ain't happening
16:40:22 <joanie> but the date is not officially set in stone
16:40:34 <joanie> there has been no response or updates from the papers committee
16:40:38 <joanie> or change on the BoF page
16:41:29 * clown wonders if we changed the topic.
16:41:47 <jjmarin> it seems rooms are very big
16:42:05 <jjmarin> 70 seats the small one
16:42:13 <clown> likely true, Magpie
16:42:46 <API> clown, the topic just got diverted a little
16:42:54 <API> in anycase
16:43:12 <API> jjmarin, you could send a initial mail saying 6th
16:43:23 <API> that although it was not "accepted"
16:43:29 <API> if happens, will happen that day
16:43:45 <API> Magpie, what do you mean?
16:44:03 <joanie> I sincerely doubt it will be denied
16:44:43 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will write to the anaconda team to inform the about the plans for an a11y BoF in GUADEC 6th august
16:45:08 <API> Magpie, ah ok, in any case, as joanie said, it will really unlikely to be denied
16:45:19 <API> and after jjmarin action,
16:45:34 <API> #topic "Miscellaneous Time"
16:45:49 <API> someone wants to mention something not previously scheduled?
16:46:31 * jjmarin is taking a look to the accessibility of the gnome-initial-setup
16:46:45 <clown> gnome-initial-setup?
16:47:18 <jjmarin> yes, it is a form when you enter in the system for the first time
16:47:41 <clown> I don't recall seeing it.
16:47:46 <clown> interesting.
16:47:47 <jjmarin> and you you choose language, keyboard layout, wiki, etc
16:48:03 <clown> oh, that.  Now I get what you are talking about.
16:48:05 <jjmarin> wifi, not wiki :)
16:48:12 <API> clown, is a kind of "lets generalize the welcome wizard"
16:48:20 <clown> right, API
16:48:25 <API> like iphone and a lot of smartphones have this days
16:48:35 <clown> and Macs.
16:49:11 <jhernandez> and what about the distribution installers? are they supposed to remove these configuration terms?
16:49:46 * joanie coughs "not an upstream problem"
16:49:52 <jhernandez> joanie: heh
16:49:53 <jhernandez> i know
16:49:55 <jhernandez> is up to thwm
16:49:55 <API> jhernandez, well, that was one of the questions when the feature was proposed
16:49:58 <jhernandez> *them
16:50:10 <API> yes, coughing answer was more or less what was answered
16:50:24 <clown> everyone needs cough syrup?
16:50:25 <jhernandez> ok ok
16:50:28 <jjmarin> jhernandez:  they can adapt it or replace it
16:50:40 <API> something like "we as upstream love our users, this is relevant to the users, we want to provide them a user experience" and some more pretty words
16:50:40 * jhernandez coughs
16:51:00 <jhernandez> ok ok
16:51:11 <clown> so, tell us what you really think, API. :-)
16:51:20 <jhernandez> clown: API coughs
16:51:21 <jhernandez> :P
16:51:25 <API> in any case, this was proposed some iterations ago
16:51:35 <API> jhernandez, this is the feature proposed
16:51:36 <API> https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointFive/Features/InitialSetup
16:51:52 <jhernandez> API: thanks
16:51:56 <jjmarin> it finishes with a "Start GNOME" button (it is suppose you can modify) and a video with music without captions that open yelp
16:52:02 <API> in any case
16:52:15 <API> this is useful if more than one user is using the computer
16:52:25 <API> although with the first user
16:52:30 <API> it is true that initial-setup
16:52:36 <API> overlaps with distro initialization
16:52:42 <API> for the following use case:
16:52:49 <API> * shared computer
16:52:53 <API> * user2 added
16:53:08 <API> * user2 needs to do a initial setup
16:53:18 <jjmarin> API: I think the interesting part is that there are some UI patterns we need to address to be accessible by default if possible
16:53:20 <API> that initial setup thing is useful, imho
16:53:49 <API> Magpie, no, nobody said that they were not interested on a11y
16:53:49 <API> in fact
16:53:54 <API> on last year design hackfest
16:53:57 <API> just before
16:54:00 <API> guadec
16:54:06 <API> with the first drafts of the feature
16:54:12 <API> they were taking into account
16:54:16 <API> accessibility related stuff
16:54:23 <API> like having the accessibility icon at the panel
16:54:29 <API> keyboard navigation
16:54:30 <API> and so on
16:54:34 <API> summarizing
16:55:01 <API> 1. what is doing jjmarin is good, as he is testing this on the early stages (thanks)
16:55:39 <API> 2. Although it is true that overlaps a little with the distro installers, there are cases where (in API humble opinion) is not related with distro installers, and it is still useful
16:56:02 <API> 2.1 In any case, as it seems that it would be added, it needs to be accessible (see 1.)
16:56:38 <API> Magpie, ?
16:57:53 <API> Magpie, hmm, but that part is admin sys work
16:58:00 <API> or specifically
16:58:09 <API> on my previous "shared computer example"
16:58:18 <API> when someone adds a new user
16:58:33 <API> the admin  will provide the proper grants
16:58:42 <API> sudoers, imho, is not a user setting
16:58:57 <API> is about how much "power" do you have
16:59:43 <API> anyway, is somewhat unrelated here
17:00:02 <API> so as it is already meeting over time
17:00:19 <API> I think that I will end the meeting
17:00:38 <API> #endmeeting