1 16:05:47 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:05:47 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jun 13 16:05:47 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:05:47 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:05:59 <API> is a pity that clown is not here, in any case
   5 16:06:02 <API> #topic GSoC updates
   6 16:06:11 <API> magpie?
   7 16:06:24 <magpie> i filed a patch
   8 16:06:40 <magpie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647074#c11
   9 16:06:40 <tota11y> 04Bug 647074: enhancement, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, GNOME Shell Magnifier should track focus and the caret
  10 16:07:27 <magpie> we made a plan to talk to mgorse because the error that we got was about dbind
  11 16:07:54 <magpie> and we tried mgorse's dbus log
  12 16:08:27 <magpie> but need to get his experience to interpret the errors
  13 16:08:45 <magpie> oh and i added my blog
  14 16:09:00 <magpie> hi clown
  15 16:09:03 * clown waves
  16 16:09:04 <API> magpie, btw, is there any bug in concrete about the freeze problem? or it is part of the focus tracking bug?
  17 16:09:46 <magpie> we are closer to finding it out i think API but we need more tests
  18 16:10:11 <magpie> the get_role_name throws an exception
  19 16:10:29 <magpie> the error is a timeout from dbind
  20 16:10:31 <API> magpie, well, I'm not asking if you are close or far from finding it
  21 16:10:42 <API> just asking if the freeze was reported as a different bug
  22 16:10:46 <API> what I mean
  23 16:10:49 <API> is that right now
  24 16:10:56 <API> the focus tracking is about
  25 16:11:02 <API> a) implementing the feature
  26 16:11:05 <API> b) solve the freeze problem
  27 16:11:21 <clown> API, good thought.  We could carve out of the focus tracker just enough of the code to reproduce the freeze, and post that as a bug.
  28 16:11:23 <API> just asking if a) is one  bug and b) is a different bug
  29 16:11:40 <API> clown, well, I assume then that the asnwer to my question is
  30 16:11:48 <API> "no, we only have one bug" ;)
  31 16:11:55 <joanie> heh
  32 16:11:58 <magpie> it is API
  33 16:12:05 <API> ok, thanks
  34 16:12:08 <clown> well, there is another bugzilla about the freeze, but I don't remember if it's that specific.
  35 16:12:14 * clown looks
  36 16:12:18 <magpie> there's quite a few
  37 16:12:20 <API> in any case, if you want one or two bugs, is something that you need to decide
  38 16:12:31 <API> in my opinion would make things clearer
  39 16:12:43 <API> because most of the comments at the focus tracking bug is about the freeze
  40 16:12:45 <clown> API, while I look — what project should this "new" bug be filed against?
  41 16:12:48 <API> but just a suggestion
  42 16:12:59 <API> well, I guess that at-spi2
  43 16:13:06 <API> hmm
  44 16:13:14 <API> but you need gnome-shell to reproduce it, right?
  45 16:13:20 <clown> that's where the other bug I'm trying to find right now is filed.
  46 16:13:28 <magpie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672325
  47 16:13:28 <tota11y> 04Bug 672325: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Magnifier freezes shell when activities screen invoked
  48 16:13:29 <API> I mean that you said that with an standalone script you don't have that problem, right?
  49 16:13:53 <API> ah ok
  50 16:14:00 <API> then you already created two bugs
  51 16:14:03 <clown> yes, the freeze occurs on an accessible that is a coming from within gnome-shell AND you are accessing it from within gnome-shell.
  52 16:14:04 <API> one for the focus tracking
  53 16:14:07 <API> and this one for the freeze
  54 16:14:28 <API> hmm, although this one is slightly different
  55 16:14:43 <API> anyway, all this is somewhat off-topic here
  56 16:14:46 <clown> bug 672325 is news to me.
  57 16:14:46 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672325 normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Magnifier freezes shell when activities screen invoked
  58 16:14:48 <API> was just a suggestion
  59 16:14:54 <magpie> isn't it the freeze affecting the focus tracking?
  60 16:15:34 <API> magpie, fwiw, that bug was created by a different person
  61 16:15:37 <clown> magpie, that bug is about stress testing the magnifier — rapidly changing the zoom factor repeatedly.
  62 16:15:39 <API> and it seems that in a different use case
  63 16:15:43 <clown> and then all of gnome shell freezes.
  64 16:15:49 <API> probably is a different freeze
  65 16:15:55 <clown> it has nothing to do with focus not atspi.
  66 16:16:01 <magpie> i  guess
  67 16:16:13 <clown> "nor atspi"
  68 16:16:27 <clown> anyone have the url to the current focus freeze bugzilla handy?
  69 16:17:16 <API> clown, you said that that bug doesn't exist
  70 16:17:26 <API> or are you asking about the focus tracking bug?
  71 16:17:31 <clown> yes, API.
  72 16:17:38 <magpie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647074 this one?
  73 16:17:38 <tota11y> 04Bug 647074: enhancement, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, GNOME Shell Magnifier should track focus and the caret
  74 16:17:57 <clown> thanks magpie.
  75 16:18:11 <clown> Here is the other one I was talking about:  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681276
  76 16:18:11 <tota11y> 04Bug 681276: normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, Reentrancy problems on gnome-shell.
  77 16:18:11 <magpie> i think i see what you mean API
  78 16:18:28 <magpie> ah yes thanks clown
  79 16:18:48 <clown> I think that's close to what you are talking about API.
  80 16:18:51 <API> clown, then you lied to me :P
  81 16:18:55 <API> that bug exists
  82 16:18:59 <API> jokes apart
  83 16:19:16 <clown> no, I said "well, there is another bugzilla about the freeze, but I don't remember if it's that specific."
  84 16:19:30 <clown> now that I see, I remember  :-)
  85 16:19:49 <API> anyway, that bug is there
  86 16:19:51 <magpie> I should put the patch on this ?
  87 16:20:02 <API> but most of the freeze discussion is on the focus tracking
  88 16:20:19 <magpie> and a link to this?
  89 16:20:47 <API> magpie, there are already a relation between the focus tracking but and the other one
  90 16:21:02 <clown> magpie, if you look at the focus freeze bug, way down at the bottom is a "Depends on" link.  That is a link the this second bug.
  91 16:21:13 <API> yeah
  92 16:21:22 <magpie> ok
  93 16:21:27 <API> so as you already have two bugs about different stuff
  94 16:21:42 <API> probably it would be good to discuss the freeze on the 681276
  95 16:21:51 <API> and about the feature itself on 647074
  96 16:21:55 <API> but that is just a suggestion
  97 16:21:57 <clown> If anything we could, as I said above, carve out just the stuff relevant to the freeze and put it on the second bug.  Hmm....
  98 16:22:01 <magpie> makes sense
  99 16:22:06 <API> having said so
 100 16:22:11 <API> can we close this topic
 101 16:22:24 <API> magpie, could you summarize the topic with some #info ?
 102 16:22:42 <API> not sure if you are aware of that
 103 16:22:56 <magpie> yes i will now
 104 16:23:11 <API> magpie, ok, thanks
 105 16:23:44 <magpie> #info clown and magpie are going to keep freeze work on the https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681276
 106 16:23:44 <tota11y> 04Bug 681276: normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, Reentrancy problems on gnome-shell.
 107 16:23:48 <magpie> how was that?
 108 16:24:07 <magpie> i will do a next bit
 109 16:24:36 <API> magpie,well I was thinking also about including what you said at the beggining of the topic
 110 16:24:45 <API> you are starting by the end of the discussion ;)
 111 16:24:55 <API> s/by/with
 112 16:25:19 <magpie> #info magpie will keep the next focus and caret tracking patch work for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647074
 113 16:25:19 <tota11y> 04Bug 647074: enhancement, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, GNOME Shell Magnifier should track focus and the caret
 114 16:26:25 <magpie> #info there is an exception thrown when get_role_name is called and it is a 'timeout at dbind'
 115 16:26:58 <magpie> #info magpie and clown are going to speak to mgorse about the dbus log
 116 16:27:07 <magpie> anything else clown?
 117 16:28:09 <clown> sorry, was distracted by someone.  Let me read the back log…
 118 16:28:13 <magpie> #info magpie added the blog
 119 16:28:29 <clown> yes, one thing.
 120 16:28:47 <magpie> what is it?
 121 16:29:01 <clown> #info another error occurs when calling get_component_iface(), which appears to be different from the one illicited by get_role_name
 122 16:29:30 <magpie> #agreed
 123 16:29:46 <clown> #info  get_component_iface() is more important here with respect to the magnifier.  If that fails, you cannot move the maginified view to that component.
 124 16:29:51 <joanie> magpie: you don't need to #agree
 125 16:30:04 <clown> but it helps boost my ego!
 126 16:30:09 <magpie> ok joanie thanks
 127 16:30:32 <magpie> i still agree clown
 128 16:31:01 <clown> magpie, did you mention that the dbus log is chock full of info, and that trying to find the relevant bits is like lookin for a needle in a haystack?
 129 16:32:25 * clown thinks we should info that too, somehow.
 130 16:32:41 <magpie> #info the dbus log contains a lot of stuff
 131 16:33:13 <API> ok guys, 30 minutes in the meeting now
 132 16:33:20 <clown> yeah, sorry.
 133 16:33:27 <API> I think that was a really complete update
 134 16:33:29 <API> clown, no problem
 135 16:33:32 <API> as I said it was complete
 136 16:33:43 <API> and as we already have our pretty #info's
 137 16:33:44 <magpie> ok API i think that's enough i mentioned we are meeting mgorse already i think clown
 138 16:33:47 <API> move to next point?
 139 16:33:51 <magpie> sure
 140 16:34:56 <API> #topic GUADEC BoF scheduling
 141 16:35:09 <API> joanie, ?
 142 16:35:13 <joanie> sure
 143 16:35:18 * joanie info's to save time
 144 16:35:38 <joanie> #info Last meeting Joanie took an action item to add our BoF to the list once the page was created.
 145 16:35:52 <joanie> #info The page has since been created: https://live.gnome.org/GUADEC/2013/BOFs
 146 16:36:03 <joanie> #info However, there is now a schedule conflict
 147 16:36:21 <joanie> #info It is looking like the GNOME Foundation Advisory Board meeting will happen on the 5th
 148 16:36:44 <joanie> #info Joanie needs to attend that meeting because she is on the Board; Piñeiro has to attend it because he is on the AdBoard.
 149 16:37:14 <joanie> #info As a result, the original plan of A11y BoF on the 5th and then leave town has been <strike>shot to hell</strike> made more challenging.
 150 16:37:39 <joanie> so, jjmarin and others going to guadec, will you be around on the 6th?
 151 16:38:00 <joanie> and if so, do we want to have a bof that day?
 152 16:38:06 * joanie waits for input
 153 16:38:07 <jjmarin> yes, if I go I will till the lsat day
 154 16:38:26 <jjmarin> s/lsat/last
 155 16:38:31 <magpie> i will be if that's any help?
 156 16:38:43 <joanie> magpie: we figured you would stay until the end
 157 16:38:49 <joanie> jhernandez: you going to guadec this year?
 158 16:39:21 <jhernandez> joanie: probably not :( - Maybe I will be moving to Brussels by August (not sure)
 159 16:39:28 <joanie> oh wow!
 160 16:39:35 <joanie> congrats re the move
 161 16:39:37 <jhernandez> but there's still a possibility
 162 16:39:38 <joanie> sorry re guadec
 163 16:39:48 <joanie> jhernandez: *if* you go, would you likely stay until the end
 164 16:39:49 <jhernandez> thanks and :(
 165 16:39:55 <jhernandez> of course
 166 16:39:58 <joanie> ok
 167 16:40:18 <joanie> #action Joanie will request a room for all day on the 6th
 168 16:40:27 <joanie> #info We can always reduce it later to 1/2 day
 169 16:40:35 <joanie> API: I'm done
 170 16:40:39 <joanie> unless you have questions
 171 16:41:28 <jjmarin> yes I have
 172 16:41:28 <API> no, I don't have questions, your #infos were full enough of ... well ... info
 173 16:41:41 <joanie> jjmarin: shoot
 174 16:41:58 <jjmarin> kalev is interested in attend
 175 16:42:09 <joanie> jjmarin: great!
 176 16:42:22 <jjmarin> and he suggested to inform the anaconda team about the BoF
 177 16:42:44 <joanie> jjmarin: are you doing that or am I or is he?
 178 16:42:53 <jjmarin> So, I have inform him about the date, but not sure about the working hours
 179 16:43:20 <joanie> the page has slots from 10 to 19:00
 180 16:43:28 <joanie> I figured we'd block off the day
 181 16:43:39 <joanie> and maybe do an a11y dinner afterwards
 182 16:43:56 <joanie> and maybe a beer trip ;)
 183 16:44:01 <jjmarin> +1
 184 16:44:06 <joanie> k
 185 16:44:18 <joanie> no one ever -1's beer
 186 16:44:22 * joanie wonders why
 187 16:44:26 <joanie> <snark />
 188 16:44:38 <clown> -1
 189 16:44:42 <joanie> heh
 190 16:44:46 * clown doesn't like beer.
 191 16:44:52 <joanie> dude, really?
 192 16:44:58 <clown> really.
 193 16:45:07 <joanie> API anyhoo, I *think* we're done with this topic now
 194 16:45:12 <clown> add some ginger ale or 7up, it's okay.
 195 16:45:16 <API> I was about to suggest it
 196 16:45:26 <clown> but that's miscellaneous (sp?)
 197 16:45:30 <API> #topci W3C updates
 198 16:45:30 <API> ups
 199 16:45:34 <API> #topic W3C updates
 200 16:45:37 <API> clown, ?
 201 16:45:38 <clown> hit there!
 202 16:46:14 <clown> the last two teleconferences were cancelled — too many conflcits for too many people.  So no news really.
 203 16:46:47 <clown> I did show one of those webkit aria unit tests to Rich Schwerdtfeger.
 204 16:47:12 <API> he said something about them?
 205 16:47:15 <clown> and we wished one could access IA2 and/or AT-SPI from within javascript.
 206 16:47:27 <clown> using FF
 207 16:47:42 <clown> I'm going to ask davidb about it.
 208 16:48:25 <API> clown, ok
 209 16:48:35 <API> so in any case, is this topic closed?
 210 16:48:40 <API> more to say?
 211 16:48:42 <API> questions from others?
 212 16:48:48 <clown> unless there is something to info here — pretty sparse.
 213 16:50:08 * clown crickets.
 214 16:50:17 <magpie> :)
 215 16:51:06 <API> #topic Marketing
 216 16:51:08 <API> jjmarin, ?
 217 16:51:14 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo has been working in the announcement of winner bid from the FoG a11y camapign
 218 16:51:27 <jjmarin> #info Karen asked Juanjo a quotation to be included in the announcement
 219 16:51:37 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo thinks the announcement will be published pretty soon
 220 16:51:45 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo updated his a11y FoG article for the annual report including the winner bid
 221 16:51:54 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo will ask if this update is ok for the 2012 annual report :)
 222 16:52:07 <jjmarin> that's all :)
 223 16:52:32 <joanie> yay :)
 224 16:52:39 <API> ok
 225 16:52:42 <API> questions, doubts?
 226 16:52:49 <clown> so accessilbe pdf's are on the horizon?
 227 16:52:56 <joanie> clown: hell yeah
 228 16:53:01 <jhernandez> clown: you stole my question
 229 16:53:04 <jhernandez> :P
 230 16:53:10 <clown> jhernandez:  you can have it back.
 231 16:53:14 <jhernandez> heh
 232 16:53:19 <joanie> a11y pdfs: We mean it this time!
 233 16:53:20 <jjmarin> orca is willing to read PDFs :)
 234 16:53:34 <clown> orca is a nice whale.
 235 16:53:40 <jhernandez> really awesome news!
 236 16:53:43 <joanie> and I'm going to add structural navigation support, etc.
 237 16:53:50 <joanie> the "list of" dialogs, etc
 238 16:54:02 <joanie> caret navigation and tagged pdf support has begun
 239 16:55:42 <API> so, not too many questions about marketing itself
 240 16:55:45 <API> so moving
 241 16:55:51 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
 242 16:56:06 <API> someone want to ask/say something not scheduled (and short)?
 243 16:56:27 <magpie> I would like to ask something
 244 16:56:29 <joanie> i'm unscheduled and short
 245 16:56:33 <joanie> magpie: are you short?
 246 16:56:36 <joanie> (sorry)
 247 16:56:40 <magpie> 'i am short yes
 248 16:56:44 <clown> i'm six foot tall — does that count?
 249 16:56:51 <joanie> clown: too tall
 250 16:57:03 <joanie> magpie: go on
 251 16:57:04 * clown becomes verry silent
 252 16:57:08 * joanie behaves
 253 16:57:21 <magpie> i just want to ask if you guys think there's anything i need to improve on
 254 16:57:47 <joanie> magpie: from where I'm sitting, you've been working hard, learning stuff, etc.
 255 16:57:54 <joanie> so I think you are doing well
 256 16:58:03 <jjmarin> I think so
 257 16:58:21 <joanie> and when you drift (e.g. the "rabbit holes") and we tell you, you immediately re-focus
 258 16:58:26 <joanie> which is great
 259 16:58:38 <joanie> and clown hasn't killed you yet. :P
 260 16:58:55 <magpie> i hope that's not on the horizon!
 261 16:58:56 * clown is too tall for murder
 262 16:59:02 <joanie> hah
 263 16:59:03 <jjmarin> hehe
 264 16:59:26 <joanie> magpie: I also think it's good that you care about your performance
 265 16:59:32 <magpie> well feel free to let me know if you see anything
 266 16:59:41 <joanie> we shall
 267 16:59:43 <joanie> :)
 268 17:00:02 <magpie> thanks all of you
 269 17:00:08 <jjmarin> you can't hide from us :)
 270 17:00:11 <joanie> thank YOU for all your work
 271 17:00:36 <clown> yes, a lot of complicated muck to wade through.
 272 17:00:48 <clown> keep on wading...
 273 17:00:51 <magpie> it's fun
 274 17:01:33 <API> well, this was a good misc time
 275 17:01:49 <API> magpie, so as others say, good work and thanks for the effort
 276 17:02:02 <API> and I also think that that is a good meeting conclusion
 277 17:02:08 <API> #endmeeting