16:05:47 <API> #startmeeting
16:05:47 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jun 13 16:05:47 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:05:47 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:05:59 <API> is a pity that clown is not here, in any case
16:06:02 <API> #topic GSoC updates
16:06:11 <API> magpie?
16:06:24 <magpie> i filed a patch
16:06:40 <magpie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647074#c11
16:06:40 <tota11y> 04Bug 647074: enhancement, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, GNOME Shell Magnifier should track focus and the caret
16:07:27 <magpie> we made a plan to talk to mgorse because the error that we got was about dbind
16:07:54 <magpie> and we tried mgorse's dbus log
16:08:27 <magpie> but need to get his experience to interpret the errors
16:08:45 <magpie> oh and i added my blog
16:09:00 <magpie> hi clown
16:09:03 * clown waves
16:09:04 <API> magpie, btw, is there any bug in concrete about the freeze problem? or it is part of the focus tracking bug?
16:09:46 <magpie> we are closer to finding it out i think API but we need more tests
16:10:11 <magpie> the get_role_name throws an exception
16:10:29 <magpie> the error is a timeout from dbind
16:10:31 <API> magpie, well, I'm not asking if you are close or far from finding it
16:10:42 <API> just asking if the freeze was reported as a different bug
16:10:46 <API> what I mean
16:10:49 <API> is that right now
16:10:56 <API> the focus tracking is about
16:11:02 <API> a) implementing the feature
16:11:05 <API> b) solve the freeze problem
16:11:21 <clown> API, good thought.  We could carve out of the focus tracker just enough of the code to reproduce the freeze, and post that as a bug.
16:11:23 <API> just asking if a) is one  bug and b) is a different bug
16:11:40 <API> clown, well, I assume then that the asnwer to my question is
16:11:48 <API> "no, we only have one bug" ;)
16:11:55 <joanie> heh
16:11:58 <magpie> it is API
16:12:05 <API> ok, thanks
16:12:08 <clown> well, there is another bugzilla about the freeze, but I don't remember if it's that specific.
16:12:14 * clown looks
16:12:18 <magpie> there's quite a few
16:12:20 <API> in any case, if you want one or two bugs, is something that you need to decide
16:12:31 <API> in my opinion would make things clearer
16:12:43 <API> because most of the comments at the focus tracking bug is about the freeze
16:12:45 <clown> API, while I look — what project should this "new" bug be filed against?
16:12:48 <API> but just a suggestion
16:12:59 <API> well, I guess that at-spi2
16:13:06 <API> hmm
16:13:14 <API> but you need gnome-shell to reproduce it, right?
16:13:20 <clown> that's where the other bug I'm trying to find right now is filed.
16:13:28 <magpie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672325
16:13:28 <tota11y> 04Bug 672325: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Magnifier freezes shell when activities screen invoked
16:13:29 <API> I mean that you said that with an standalone script you don't have that problem, right?
16:13:53 <API> ah ok
16:14:00 <API> then you already created two bugs
16:14:03 <clown> yes, the freeze occurs on an accessible that is a coming from within gnome-shell AND you are accessing it from within gnome-shell.
16:14:04 <API> one for the focus tracking
16:14:07 <API> and this one for the freeze
16:14:28 <API> hmm, although this one is slightly different
16:14:43 <API> anyway, all this is somewhat off-topic here
16:14:46 <clown> bug 672325 is news to me.
16:14:46 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672325 normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Magnifier freezes shell when activities screen invoked
16:14:48 <API> was just a suggestion
16:14:54 <magpie> isn't it the freeze affecting the focus tracking?
16:15:34 <API> magpie, fwiw, that bug was created by a different person
16:15:37 <clown> magpie, that bug is about stress testing the magnifier — rapidly changing the zoom factor repeatedly.
16:15:39 <API> and it seems that in a different use case
16:15:43 <clown> and then all of gnome shell freezes.
16:15:49 <API> probably is a different freeze
16:15:55 <clown> it has nothing to do with focus not atspi.
16:16:01 <magpie> i  guess
16:16:13 <clown> "nor atspi"
16:16:27 <clown> anyone have the url to the current focus freeze bugzilla handy?
16:17:16 <API> clown, you said that that bug doesn't exist
16:17:26 <API> or are you asking about the focus tracking bug?
16:17:31 <clown> yes, API.
16:17:38 <magpie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647074 this one?
16:17:38 <tota11y> 04Bug 647074: enhancement, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, GNOME Shell Magnifier should track focus and the caret
16:17:57 <clown> thanks magpie.
16:18:11 <clown> Here is the other one I was talking about:  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681276
16:18:11 <tota11y> 04Bug 681276: normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, Reentrancy problems on gnome-shell.
16:18:11 <magpie> i think i see what you mean API
16:18:28 <magpie> ah yes thanks clown
16:18:48 <clown> I think that's close to what you are talking about API.
16:18:51 <API> clown, then you lied to me :P
16:18:55 <API> that bug exists
16:18:59 <API> jokes apart
16:19:16 <clown> no, I said "well, there is another bugzilla about the freeze, but I don't remember if it's that specific."
16:19:30 <clown> now that I see, I remember  :-)
16:19:49 <API> anyway, that bug is there
16:19:51 <magpie> I should put the patch on this ?
16:20:02 <API> but most of the freeze discussion is on the focus tracking
16:20:19 <magpie> and a link to this?
16:20:47 <API> magpie, there are already a relation between the focus tracking but and the other one
16:21:02 <clown> magpie, if you look at the focus freeze bug, way down at the bottom is a "Depends on" link.  That is a link the this second bug.
16:21:13 <API> yeah
16:21:22 <magpie> ok
16:21:27 <API> so as you already have two bugs about different stuff
16:21:42 <API> probably it would be good to discuss the freeze on the 681276
16:21:51 <API> and about the feature itself on 647074
16:21:55 <API> but that is just a suggestion
16:21:57 <clown> If anything we could, as I said above, carve out just the stuff relevant to the freeze and put it on the second bug.  Hmm....
16:22:01 <magpie> makes sense
16:22:06 <API> having said so
16:22:11 <API> can we close this topic
16:22:24 <API> magpie, could you summarize the topic with some #info ?
16:22:42 <API> not sure if you are aware of that
16:22:56 <magpie> yes i will now
16:23:11 <API> magpie, ok, thanks
16:23:44 <magpie> #info clown and magpie are going to keep freeze work on the https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681276
16:23:44 <tota11y> 04Bug 681276: normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, Reentrancy problems on gnome-shell.
16:23:48 <magpie> how was that?
16:24:07 <magpie> i will do a next bit
16:24:36 <API> magpie,well I was thinking also about including what you said at the beggining of the topic
16:24:45 <API> you are starting by the end of the discussion ;)
16:24:55 <API> s/by/with
16:25:19 <magpie> #info magpie will keep the next focus and caret tracking patch work for https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647074
16:25:19 <tota11y> 04Bug 647074: enhancement, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, GNOME Shell Magnifier should track focus and the caret
16:26:25 <magpie> #info there is an exception thrown when get_role_name is called and it is a 'timeout at dbind'
16:26:58 <magpie> #info magpie and clown are going to speak to mgorse about the dbus log
16:27:07 <magpie> anything else clown?
16:28:09 <clown> sorry, was distracted by someone.  Let me read the back log…
16:28:13 <magpie> #info magpie added the blog
16:28:29 <clown> yes, one thing.
16:28:47 <magpie> what is it?
16:29:01 <clown> #info another error occurs when calling get_component_iface(), which appears to be different from the one illicited by get_role_name
16:29:30 <magpie> #agreed
16:29:46 <clown> #info  get_component_iface() is more important here with respect to the magnifier.  If that fails, you cannot move the maginified view to that component.
16:29:51 <joanie> magpie: you don't need to #agree
16:30:04 <clown> but it helps boost my ego!
16:30:09 <magpie> ok joanie thanks
16:30:32 <magpie> i still agree clown
16:31:01 <clown> magpie, did you mention that the dbus log is chock full of info, and that trying to find the relevant bits is like lookin for a needle in a haystack?
16:32:25 * clown thinks we should info that too, somehow.
16:32:41 <magpie> #info the dbus log contains a lot of stuff
16:33:13 <API> ok guys, 30 minutes in the meeting now
16:33:20 <clown> yeah, sorry.
16:33:27 <API> I think that was a really complete update
16:33:29 <API> clown, no problem
16:33:32 <API> as I said it was complete
16:33:43 <API> and as we already have our pretty #info's
16:33:44 <magpie> ok API i think that's enough i mentioned we are meeting mgorse already i think clown
16:33:47 <API> move to next point?
16:33:51 <magpie> sure
16:34:56 <API> #topic GUADEC BoF scheduling
16:35:09 <API> joanie, ?
16:35:13 <joanie> sure
16:35:18 * joanie info's to save time
16:35:38 <joanie> #info Last meeting Joanie took an action item to add our BoF to the list once the page was created.
16:35:52 <joanie> #info The page has since been created: https://live.gnome.org/GUADEC/2013/BOFs
16:36:03 <joanie> #info However, there is now a schedule conflict
16:36:21 <joanie> #info It is looking like the GNOME Foundation Advisory Board meeting will happen on the 5th
16:36:44 <joanie> #info Joanie needs to attend that meeting because she is on the Board; Piñeiro has to attend it because he is on the AdBoard.
16:37:14 <joanie> #info As a result, the original plan of A11y BoF on the 5th and then leave town has been <strike>shot to hell</strike> made more challenging.
16:37:39 <joanie> so, jjmarin and others going to guadec, will you be around on the 6th?
16:38:00 <joanie> and if so, do we want to have a bof that day?
16:38:06 * joanie waits for input
16:38:07 <jjmarin> yes, if I go I will till the lsat day
16:38:26 <jjmarin> s/lsat/last
16:38:31 <magpie> i will be if that's any help?
16:38:43 <joanie> magpie: we figured you would stay until the end
16:38:49 <joanie> jhernandez: you going to guadec this year?
16:39:21 <jhernandez> joanie: probably not :( - Maybe I will be moving to Brussels by August (not sure)
16:39:28 <joanie> oh wow!
16:39:35 <joanie> congrats re the move
16:39:37 <jhernandez> but there's still a possibility
16:39:38 <joanie> sorry re guadec
16:39:48 <joanie> jhernandez: *if* you go, would you likely stay until the end
16:39:49 <jhernandez> thanks and :(
16:39:55 <jhernandez> of course
16:39:58 <joanie> ok
16:40:18 <joanie> #action Joanie will request a room for all day on the 6th
16:40:27 <joanie> #info We can always reduce it later to 1/2 day
16:40:35 <joanie> API: I'm done
16:40:39 <joanie> unless you have questions
16:41:28 <jjmarin> yes I have
16:41:28 <API> no, I don't have questions, your #infos were full enough of ... well ... info
16:41:41 <joanie> jjmarin: shoot
16:41:58 <jjmarin> kalev is interested in attend
16:42:09 <joanie> jjmarin: great!
16:42:22 <jjmarin> and he suggested to inform the anaconda team about the BoF
16:42:44 <joanie> jjmarin: are you doing that or am I or is he?
16:42:53 <jjmarin> So, I have inform him about the date, but not sure about the working hours
16:43:20 <joanie> the page has slots from 10 to 19:00
16:43:28 <joanie> I figured we'd block off the day
16:43:39 <joanie> and maybe do an a11y dinner afterwards
16:43:56 <joanie> and maybe a beer trip ;)
16:44:01 <jjmarin> +1
16:44:06 <joanie> k
16:44:18 <joanie> no one ever -1's beer
16:44:22 * joanie wonders why
16:44:26 <joanie> <snark />
16:44:38 <clown> -1
16:44:42 <joanie> heh
16:44:46 * clown doesn't like beer.
16:44:52 <joanie> dude, really?
16:44:58 <clown> really.
16:45:07 <joanie> API anyhoo, I *think* we're done with this topic now
16:45:12 <clown> add some ginger ale or 7up, it's okay.
16:45:16 <API> I was about to suggest it
16:45:26 <clown> but that's miscellaneous (sp?)
16:45:30 <API> #topci W3C updates
16:45:30 <API> ups
16:45:34 <API> #topic W3C updates
16:45:37 <API> clown, ?
16:45:38 <clown> hit there!
16:46:14 <clown> the last two teleconferences were cancelled — too many conflcits for too many people.  So no news really.
16:46:47 <clown> I did show one of those webkit aria unit tests to Rich Schwerdtfeger.
16:47:12 <API> he said something about them?
16:47:15 <clown> and we wished one could access IA2 and/or AT-SPI from within javascript.
16:47:27 <clown> using FF
16:47:42 <clown> I'm going to ask davidb about it.
16:48:25 <API> clown, ok
16:48:35 <API> so in any case, is this topic closed?
16:48:40 <API> more to say?
16:48:42 <API> questions from others?
16:48:48 <clown> unless there is something to info here — pretty sparse.
16:50:08 * clown crickets.
16:50:17 <magpie> :)
16:51:06 <API> #topic Marketing
16:51:08 <API> jjmarin, ?
16:51:14 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo has been working in the announcement of winner bid from the FoG a11y camapign
16:51:27 <jjmarin> #info Karen asked Juanjo a quotation to be included in the announcement
16:51:37 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo thinks the announcement will be published pretty soon
16:51:45 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo updated his a11y FoG article for the annual report including the winner bid
16:51:54 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo will ask if this update is ok for the 2012 annual report :)
16:52:07 <jjmarin> that's all :)
16:52:32 <joanie> yay :)
16:52:39 <API> ok
16:52:42 <API> questions, doubts?
16:52:49 <clown> so accessilbe pdf's are on the horizon?
16:52:56 <joanie> clown: hell yeah
16:53:01 <jhernandez> clown: you stole my question
16:53:04 <jhernandez> :P
16:53:10 <clown> jhernandez:  you can have it back.
16:53:14 <jhernandez> heh
16:53:19 <joanie> a11y pdfs: We mean it this time!
16:53:20 <jjmarin> orca is willing to read PDFs :)
16:53:34 <clown> orca is a nice whale.
16:53:40 <jhernandez> really awesome news!
16:53:43 <joanie> and I'm going to add structural navigation support, etc.
16:53:50 <joanie> the "list of" dialogs, etc
16:54:02 <joanie> caret navigation and tagged pdf support has begun
16:55:42 <API> so, not too many questions about marketing itself
16:55:45 <API> so moving
16:55:51 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
16:56:06 <API> someone want to ask/say something not scheduled (and short)?
16:56:27 <magpie> I would like to ask something
16:56:29 <joanie> i'm unscheduled and short
16:56:33 <joanie> magpie: are you short?
16:56:36 <joanie> (sorry)
16:56:40 <magpie> 'i am short yes
16:56:44 <clown> i'm six foot tall — does that count?
16:56:51 <joanie> clown: too tall
16:57:03 <joanie> magpie: go on
16:57:04 * clown becomes verry silent
16:57:08 * joanie behaves
16:57:21 <magpie> i just want to ask if you guys think there's anything i need to improve on
16:57:47 <joanie> magpie: from where I'm sitting, you've been working hard, learning stuff, etc.
16:57:54 <joanie> so I think you are doing well
16:58:03 <jjmarin> I think so
16:58:21 <joanie> and when you drift (e.g. the "rabbit holes") and we tell you, you immediately re-focus
16:58:26 <joanie> which is great
16:58:38 <joanie> and clown hasn't killed you yet. :P
16:58:55 <magpie> i hope that's not on the horizon!
16:58:56 * clown is too tall for murder
16:59:02 <joanie> hah
16:59:03 <jjmarin> hehe
16:59:26 <joanie> magpie: I also think it's good that you care about your performance
16:59:32 <magpie> well feel free to let me know if you see anything
16:59:41 <joanie> we shall
16:59:43 <joanie> :)
17:00:02 <magpie> thanks all of you
17:00:08 <jjmarin> you can't hide from us :)
17:00:11 <joanie> thank YOU for all your work
17:00:36 <clown> yes, a lot of complicated muck to wade through.
17:00:48 <clown> keep on wading...
17:00:51 <magpie> it's fun
17:01:33 <API> well, this was a good misc time
17:01:49 <API> magpie, so as others say, good work and thanks for the effort
17:02:02 <API> and I also think that that is a good meeting conclusion
17:02:08 <API> #endmeeting