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   1 16:07:39 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:07:39 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Mar  7 16:07:39 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:07:39 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:07:57 <API> #topic Stuff we must do between now and code freeze
   5 16:08:15 <API> #info API was busy this week with GNOME 3.7.91 release, so not a lot of changes here
   6 16:08:37 <API> #info he still needs to take a look with orca to GNOME shell ui changes and to clutter-gtk applications
   7 16:08:40 <API> (done)
   8 16:08:47 <API> any other?
   9 16:08:49 <joanie> #info Matthias added the "orca" "bug" to evaluate lib-gd to the blocker email.
  10 16:09:06 <joanie> #info (as an "other" item or something like that)
  11 16:09:16 <joanie> #info Joanie has not yet had time to do that
  12 16:09:45 <joanie> #info Ditto for the other things Matthias asked her to look at.
  13 16:10:14 <joanie> #info If someone has been twiddling their thumbs and wants to evaluate widgets, please raise your hand. :)
  14 16:10:52 <mgorse> What other widgets are there? I could take a look in a while
  15 16:11:25 <joanie> the overview
  16 16:11:38 <joanie> I actually looked at that one in gtk demo
  17 16:11:45 <mgorse> or, at least, I could if my jhbuild setup isn't erroring out anymore
  18 16:12:01 <joanie> but it was on screen and I still don't know what it's for or how to use it etc.
  19 16:12:17 <joanie> i.e. as a sighted mouse clicking user
  20 16:12:42 <joanie> so to then make the leap to "and therefore an Orca user would do this" hasn't happened yet
  21 16:13:15 <joanie> There is also a proposed patch related to GtkNotebook but it removes signals completely
  22 16:13:20 <joanie> so I don't want that going in
  23 16:13:27 <joanie> until we've beaten on it a bunch
  24 16:13:33 <joanie> i.e. NOT 3.8
  25 16:13:51 <joanie> and I think there was one more widget, but it's not springing to my mind
  26 16:14:23 <joanie> I did btw give plenty of feedback about the level bar -- in particular how it is used in the wild
  27 16:14:40 <joanie> anyway, I'm babbling. Some one stop me
  28 16:14:43 <joanie> ;)
  29 16:14:50 * API will wait until mgorse or joanie gives me green light to move to next point or give the turn to a different person
  30 16:15:32 <joanie> from my above joke-but-not-a-joke, you have the green light afaiac
  31 16:16:13 <API> ok
  32 16:16:21 <API> so anyone else wants to add something on this point?
  33 16:16:25 * jjmarin is testing gnome-shell, mainly keyboard navigation. It seems the most critical part is the new application view
  34 16:16:46 <jjmarin> I think it has been solved
  35 16:16:55 <joanie> yay
  36 16:17:02 <joanie> thanks for doing that btw
  37 16:17:10 <jjmarin> not tested yet after fmueller patch
  38 16:17:12 <joanie> i guess I don't have the new application view yet
  39 16:17:20 <joanie> need to update jhbuild
  40 16:17:33 <API> jjmarin, but did you test gnome-shell with orca?
  41 16:17:38 <API> btw, thanks for the key-navigation check
  42 16:17:44 <jjmarin> well, it the overview mode, whe the applications are shown
  43 16:18:19 <jjmarin> well, it's the overview mode, when the applications are shown in the grid
  44 16:18:46 <jjmarin> the calendar is not accessible yet, AFAIK
  45 16:19:00 <joanie> I think we have open bugs for that
  46 16:19:02 <API> jjmarin, calendar is a big chunk to chew
  47 16:19:11 <API> for the moment I will be happy with no regressions
  48 16:21:25 <jjmarin> me too :)
  49 16:21:36 <API> so anything else in this point?
  50 16:22:08 <jjmarin> nop
  51 16:22:31 <API> ok, so lets move
  52 16:22:39 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates
  53 16:22:59 <API> #info mclasen sent a mail about the 3.8 bug blockers
  54 16:23:20 <API> #info one was related with cally and passwords,
  55 16:23:25 <API> #info pinged ebassi, patches committed
  56 16:23:37 <joanie> yay
  57 16:23:45 <API> #info I also asked to add the lack of key events on gnome-control-center as a 3.8 blocker
  58 16:23:47 <API> (done)
  59 16:23:49 <API> next one please
  60 16:25:02 <joanie> #info Joanie finished the bulk of the profile-based language switching in Orca.
  61 16:25:13 <joanie> time for testing
  62 16:25:45 <joanie> (done)
  63 16:26:38 <API> anyone else?
  64 16:26:54 <jjmarin> joanie: profile-based language ?
  65 16:27:04 <joanie> orca has profiles
  66 16:27:16 <joanie> profiles are now keyboard cyclable
  67 16:27:32 <joanie> profiles can have associated speech synthesizers (and all other settings)
  68 16:27:49 <joanie> and now when you cycle from say english to spanish, Orca starts speaking spanish (not just the synth)
  69 16:27:52 <joanie> all the messages
  70 16:28:03 <joanie> most of the dialogs (a few widgets aren't right)
  71 16:28:17 <joanie> it's actually pretty cool
  72 16:28:26 <joanie> and yes, I *do* need to write up something for release notes
  73 16:28:27 <joanie> but
  74 16:28:35 <joanie> I do *not* have the time at the moment
  75 16:28:38 <joanie> seriously
  76 16:28:44 <joanie> so it's on my list
  77 16:29:14 <joanie> ooooh, I have an idea
  78 16:29:25 <joanie> I could write up some basic steps
  79 16:29:34 <joanie> jjmarin could try it
  80 16:29:44 <joanie> and he could write the release notes for me
  81 16:30:01 <jjmarin> ok, I read something in list about the language support in the orca list, but I don't know why I was thinking about programming languages :)
  82 16:30:13 <jjmarin> ok :)
  83 16:30:24 <joanie> no, this is for all the bilingual/trilingual folks
  84 16:30:28 <joanie> read: everyone but Joanie
  85 16:30:28 <joanie> ;)
  86 16:30:44 <joanie> actually I will find the bug
  87 16:30:51 <joanie> but let's move on in terms of the meeting
  88 16:31:08 <jjmarin> It will helps you in your Hungarian testing sessions :)
  89 16:31:16 * clown everyone knows that joanie only speaks in python
  90 16:31:29 <joanie> I also speak in tongues
  91 16:33:03 <jjmarin> :)
  92 16:34:04 <jjmarin> this sounds a cool feature to talk about in the release notes :)
  93 16:34:17 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=419742#c17
  94 16:34:17 <tota11y> 04Bug 419742: enhancement, High, ---, jdiggs, RESOLVED FIXED, Add the ability to switch languages
  95 16:35:08 <joanie> anyway we should move on (/me is surprised we haven't already)
  96 16:35:30 <API> well you were talking
  97 16:35:36 <API> anyway
  98 16:35:36 <clown> in python!
  99 16:35:39 <API> for minutes sake
 100 16:35:54 <joanie> 16:30:50 <@joanie> but let's move on in terms of the meeting
 101 16:36:00 <API> any possibility of summarize last chatting with pretty #info?
 102 16:36:52 <joanie> #action Joanie will give Juanjo some notes about bug 491742 so he can write some release notes.
 103 16:36:52 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=491742 critical, High, ---, gnome-applets-maint, RESOLVED OBSOLETE, crash in Disk Mounter: I was at home sleeping.
 104 16:36:59 <joanie> the pretty info was already given
 105 16:37:05 <joanie> namely that I finished the work
 106 16:37:09 <joanie> (most of it)
 107 16:37:15 <jjmarin> joanie: you're so quick :)
 108 16:37:44 <joanie> so now can we move on?
 109 16:37:56 <API> yes
 110 16:38:05 <API> #topic W3C updates
 111 16:38:07 <API> clown, ?
 112 16:38:39 * clown notest that the last bug is wrong.
 113 16:38:48 <joanie> ugh
 114 16:39:00 <clown> anyhow, one update, or do you want to edit your action, joanie?
 115 16:39:04 <joanie> #info Joanie will update the action to say bug 419742
 116 16:39:04 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=419742 enhancement, High, ---, jdiggs, RESOLVED FIXED, Add the ability to switch languages
 117 16:39:16 <joanie> done
 118 16:39:20 <joanie> I'll clean up minutes later
 119 16:39:42 * joanie reads the wrong bug and giggles
 120 16:39:57 <clown> #info The latest public working draft of tha ARIA Authroing Best Practices document is slated for publication today (Mar 7).
 121 16:40:09 <clown> #info the url is: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/
 122 16:40:28 <clown> #info right now, that url points to the last (older) public working draft from 2010.
 123 16:40:56 <clown> #info by tomorrow, it should read "7 March 2013".
 124 16:40:58 <clown> (done).
 125 16:42:48 <API> well
 126 16:42:58 <API> probably there are some possible questions here
 127 16:43:03 * joanie whispers to jjmarin that between my comment 16 and my comment 17, you might be able to craft the release notes
 128 16:43:05 <API> but for that we would need to read that document
 129 16:43:18 <clown> which isn't published yet...
 130 16:43:23 <clown> … but soon...
 131 16:43:27 <API> ah sorry
 132 16:43:31 <API> "is slated for publication"
 133 16:43:35 <clown> right
 134 16:43:41 <API> I understood that was published already
 135 16:43:42 <API> well
 136 16:43:44 <API> in that case
 137 16:43:56 <joanie> in that case it ain't our fault for being late!
 138 16:43:57 <joanie> yay
 139 16:44:09 <clown> :-)
 140 16:44:27 <clown> If you would like, when it is published, I could announce it on the gnome-a11y list.
 141 16:44:36 <joanie> that would be great
 142 16:44:45 <jjmarin> that sounds a good idea
 143 16:44:46 <joanie> my to-do list is my inbox
 144 16:45:02 <joanie> it should be my action items from the minutes
 145 16:45:06 <joanie> and info's from others
 146 16:45:11 <joanie> but.... well... you know.
 147 16:45:11 <clown> #action Joseph to annouce the publication of the ARIA Authoring Pracices Guide when it is published, on the gnome-a11y interest list.
 148 16:45:12 <joanie> ;)
 149 16:45:30 <joanie> thanks clown!
 150 16:45:36 <clown> my pleasure.
 151 16:46:17 <API> ok, then moving
 152 16:46:32 <clown> API, on more thing, actually
 153 16:46:37 * API waiting
 154 16:46:38 <clown> Is this public:  https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=1
 155 16:47:05 * joanie looks
 156 16:47:15 <joanie> nope
 157 16:47:21 <clown> foo!
 158 16:47:26 <clown> never mind, then
 159 16:47:36 <joanie> :)
 160 16:48:17 <API> OK
 161 16:48:18 <API> ups
 162 16:48:19 <API> ok
 163 16:48:24 <API> so moving now
 164 16:48:27 <API> #topic Marketing
 165 16:48:30 <API> jjmarin, ?
 166 16:48:36 <jjmarin> #Info Juanjo was working in the gnome annual report these days, so he didn't do anything from his todo list about the release notes and wikipedia stuff :-/
 167 16:48:49 <jjmarin> but I will
 168 16:48:51 <jjmarin> :)
 169 16:48:53 <joanie> :)
 170 16:49:04 <clown> lol
 171 16:49:14 <joanie> it's a crazy time of year
 172 16:49:20 <joanie> we are all swamped
 173 16:49:32 <jjmarin> yep
 174 16:50:25 <API> anything else? questions? doubts?
 175 16:52:16 <API> is the sound ...
 176 16:52:18 <API> of the silence
 177 16:52:19 <API> ok
 178 16:52:21 <API> so moving
 179 16:52:26 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
 180 16:52:35 <API> something not scheduled to add?
 181 16:54:02 <jjmarin> I want to ask joanie about how to create the profiles in orca, but I think I can do in the general a11y room
 182 16:54:28 <joanie> it's in the orca gui preferences (aka the dialog we all pretend doesn't exist)
 183 16:54:39 * joanie looks for the help docs
 184 16:55:03 <joanie> https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/howto_profiles.html.en
 185 16:55:08 <joanie> old screenshots
 186 16:55:11 <joanie> from GNOME 2
 187 16:55:18 <joanie> but the docs are still valid
 188 16:55:34 <joanie> and I cannot be bothered to create new screen shots for something no one should even see
 189 16:55:39 <joanie> (or so I'm told)
 190 16:55:41 <joanie> ;)
 191 16:56:38 <joanie> jjmarin: you'll also need https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/howto_key_bindings.html.en
 192 16:56:49 <joanie> to bind the cycle settings profile command
 193 16:56:52 <joanie> to whatever you want
 194 16:57:05 <joanie> see under "unbinding bound commands"
 195 16:57:47 <jjmarin> so the orca profiles are not conected with input source language profiles
 196 16:58:51 <joanie> no
 197 16:59:12 <joanie> Orca has default settings
 198 16:59:33 <joanie> which will speak and present stuff in the locale associated with your current environment
 199 16:59:44 <joanie> profiles themselves are not about languages
 200 17:00:04 <joanie> you could have a profile for laptop settings
 201 17:00:09 <joanie> and one for desktop
 202 17:00:26 <joanie> or a profile with speech disabled and braille enabled
 203 17:00:28 <joanie> or whatever
 204 17:00:35 <joanie> profiles are strictly collections of settings
 205 17:00:41 <joanie> which have nothing to do with language BUT
 206 17:00:46 <clown> so, the context is anything?  For example, a profile for "morning", and another for "late afternoon".
 207 17:00:51 <clown> ?
 208 17:01:02 <joanie> clown: the context doesn't make sense
 209 17:01:17 <joanie> it's about different settings being good for different tasks
 210 17:01:29 <joanie> and therefore being able to save a set of settings is handy
 211 17:01:39 <joanie> anyhoo
 212 17:01:41 <clown> context could = different task
 213 17:01:49 <joanie> k
 214 17:02:04 <clown> but only tasks?
 215 17:02:05 <joanie> so we've had profiles for a while (as the gnome 2 screen shots suggest) ;)
 216 17:02:19 <joanie> no
 217 17:02:23 <joanie> needs clown
 218 17:02:28 <joanie> needs could be task related
 219 17:02:34 <joanie> they could be vision related
 220 17:02:44 <joanie> if you have fluctuating vision
 221 17:03:06 <joanie> on good vision days (hours) you might not want Orca to spew out roles and other things
 222 17:03:16 <joanie> on bad vision days you might find roles and the like critical
 223 17:03:23 <clown> well, it sounds like the context could be "anything" then, as long as an anything is enough to specify a collection of settings.
 224 17:03:51 <joanie> to me "context" isn't the right word
 225 17:04:01 <joanie> but holy crap that's beyond the point of jjmarin's question
 226 17:04:10 <clown> yup.  shutting up.
 227 17:04:15 <joanie> so getting back to that
 228 17:04:38 <joanie> jjmarin: you get that profiles are collections of settings and that Orca has it's own set of keybindings for Orca-specific commands?
 229 17:05:26 <jjmarin> yes
 230 17:05:30 <jjmarin> but
 231 17:05:32 <jjmarin> I remember a command line mode asking questions about orca configuration and a gui. But right now I don't know how to get any of them :)
 232 17:05:54 <joanie> hold down numpad insert and hit space
 233 17:06:10 <joanie> the orca modifier by default is insert on the numpad
 234 17:06:32 <jjmarin> trying
 235 17:06:48 <jjmarin> magic !!!!
 236 17:07:04 <joanie> yeah. the gui is just very well hidden where designers cannot find it
 237 17:07:17 <jjmarin> clever !!!
 238 17:07:24 <joanie> was a joke
 239 17:07:41 <joanie> anyhoo, from that and the docs you should be able to set up a profile
 240 17:08:01 <joanie> and set up a keybinding to cycle amongst profiles
 241 17:08:08 <joanie> the cycle thing is a new feature this cycle
 242 17:08:37 <joanie> then if the profile you set up happens to be in another language
 243 17:08:59 <joanie> pressing your new profile-cycling keystroke will change synthesizers
 244 17:09:11 <joanie> and if you press orca+space the gui will be in the new language
 245 17:09:23 <joanie> and any "messages" orca speaks will be in the new language
 246 17:09:26 <joanie> etc. etc. etc.
 247 17:09:29 <jjmarin> in the past, you couldn't change the profile ?
 248 17:09:40 <joanie> not by keystroke
 249 17:09:46 <joanie> you could do so via orca preferences
 250 17:09:56 <joanie> so like three keystrokes
 251 17:10:12 <joanie> the idea (before language switching) is that you don't need to change profiles often
 252 17:10:20 <joanie> some days maybe never
 253 17:10:31 <joanie> some days maybe once or twice or thrice
 254 17:10:46 <joanie> so the dialog was not that big of a deal
 255 17:11:07 <joanie> with language switching, of course, you will constantly be wanting to switch
 256 17:11:20 <jjmarin> :)
 257 17:12:09 <jjmarin> sounds cool :)
 258 17:12:12 * API realizes that we are 10 minutes over time
 259 17:12:18 <joanie> sorry
 260 17:12:27 <joanie> but this means I got an AI done
 261 17:12:28 <joanie> yay!
 262 17:12:30 * clown carriage just turned into a pumpkin!
 263 17:12:38 <joanie> jjmarin: thanks for doing this
 264 17:12:47 <jjmarin> np :)
 265 17:13:02 <joanie> answering occasional questions about how orca works so you can write the release notes is way easier for me
 266 17:13:10 <joanie> so i honestly appreciate it a ton
 267 17:13:10 * API carriage turned into a smashing
 268 17:13:25 * clown seeds everywhere!
 269 17:13:48 <API> well, as soon as you finish your chat I will finish the meeting
 270 17:14:03 <jjmarin> ok
 271 17:14:16 <jjmarin> anything else :P
 272 17:15:03 <API> well, I will close the meeting
 273 17:15:18 <API> #endmeeting

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