16:07:39 <API> #startmeeting
16:07:39 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Mar  7 16:07:39 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:07:39 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:07:57 <API> #topic Stuff we must do between now and code freeze
16:08:15 <API> #info API was busy this week with GNOME 3.7.91 release, so not a lot of changes here
16:08:37 <API> #info he still needs to take a look with orca to GNOME shell ui changes and to clutter-gtk applications
16:08:40 <API> (done)
16:08:47 <API> any other?
16:08:49 <joanie> #info Matthias added the "orca" "bug" to evaluate lib-gd to the blocker email.
16:09:06 <joanie> #info (as an "other" item or something like that)
16:09:16 <joanie> #info Joanie has not yet had time to do that
16:09:45 <joanie> #info Ditto for the other things Matthias asked her to look at.
16:10:14 <joanie> #info If someone has been twiddling their thumbs and wants to evaluate widgets, please raise your hand. :)
16:10:52 <mgorse> What other widgets are there? I could take a look in a while
16:11:25 <joanie> the overview
16:11:38 <joanie> I actually looked at that one in gtk demo
16:11:45 <mgorse> or, at least, I could if my jhbuild setup isn't erroring out anymore
16:12:01 <joanie> but it was on screen and I still don't know what it's for or how to use it etc.
16:12:17 <joanie> i.e. as a sighted mouse clicking user
16:12:42 <joanie> so to then make the leap to "and therefore an Orca user would do this" hasn't happened yet
16:13:15 <joanie> There is also a proposed patch related to GtkNotebook but it removes signals completely
16:13:20 <joanie> so I don't want that going in
16:13:27 <joanie> until we've beaten on it a bunch
16:13:33 <joanie> i.e. NOT 3.8
16:13:51 <joanie> and I think there was one more widget, but it's not springing to my mind
16:14:23 <joanie> I did btw give plenty of feedback about the level bar -- in particular how it is used in the wild
16:14:40 <joanie> anyway, I'm babbling. Some one stop me
16:14:43 <joanie> ;)
16:14:50 * API will wait until mgorse or joanie gives me green light to move to next point or give the turn to a different person
16:15:32 <joanie> from my above joke-but-not-a-joke, you have the green light afaiac
16:16:13 <API> ok
16:16:21 <API> so anyone else wants to add something on this point?
16:16:25 * jjmarin is testing gnome-shell, mainly keyboard navigation. It seems the most critical part is the new application view
16:16:46 <jjmarin> I think it has been solved
16:16:55 <joanie> yay
16:17:02 <joanie> thanks for doing that btw
16:17:10 <jjmarin> not tested yet after fmueller patch
16:17:12 <joanie> i guess I don't have the new application view yet
16:17:20 <joanie> need to update jhbuild
16:17:33 <API> jjmarin, but did you test gnome-shell with orca?
16:17:38 <API> btw, thanks for the key-navigation check
16:17:44 <jjmarin> well, it the overview mode, whe the applications are shown
16:18:19 <jjmarin> well, it's the overview mode, when the applications are shown in the grid
16:18:46 <jjmarin> the calendar is not accessible yet, AFAIK
16:19:00 <joanie> I think we have open bugs for that
16:19:02 <API> jjmarin, calendar is a big chunk to chew
16:19:11 <API> for the moment I will be happy with no regressions
16:21:25 <jjmarin> me too :)
16:21:36 <API> so anything else in this point?
16:22:08 <jjmarin> nop
16:22:31 <API> ok, so lets move
16:22:39 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates
16:22:59 <API> #info mclasen sent a mail about the 3.8 bug blockers
16:23:20 <API> #info one was related with cally and passwords,
16:23:25 <API> #info pinged ebassi, patches committed
16:23:37 <joanie> yay
16:23:45 <API> #info I also asked to add the lack of key events on gnome-control-center as a 3.8 blocker
16:23:47 <API> (done)
16:23:49 <API> next one please
16:25:02 <joanie> #info Joanie finished the bulk of the profile-based language switching in Orca.
16:25:13 <joanie> time for testing
16:25:45 <joanie> (done)
16:26:38 <API> anyone else?
16:26:54 <jjmarin> joanie: profile-based language ?
16:27:04 <joanie> orca has profiles
16:27:16 <joanie> profiles are now keyboard cyclable
16:27:32 <joanie> profiles can have associated speech synthesizers (and all other settings)
16:27:49 <joanie> and now when you cycle from say english to spanish, Orca starts speaking spanish (not just the synth)
16:27:52 <joanie> all the messages
16:28:03 <joanie> most of the dialogs (a few widgets aren't right)
16:28:17 <joanie> it's actually pretty cool
16:28:26 <joanie> and yes, I *do* need to write up something for release notes
16:28:27 <joanie> but
16:28:35 <joanie> I do *not* have the time at the moment
16:28:38 <joanie> seriously
16:28:44 <joanie> so it's on my list
16:29:14 <joanie> ooooh, I have an idea
16:29:25 <joanie> I could write up some basic steps
16:29:34 <joanie> jjmarin could try it
16:29:44 <joanie> and he could write the release notes for me
16:30:01 <jjmarin> ok, I read something in list about the language support in the orca list, but I don't know why I was thinking about programming languages :)
16:30:13 <jjmarin> ok :)
16:30:24 <joanie> no, this is for all the bilingual/trilingual folks
16:30:28 <joanie> read: everyone but Joanie
16:30:28 <joanie> ;)
16:30:44 <joanie> actually I will find the bug
16:30:51 <joanie> but let's move on in terms of the meeting
16:31:08 <jjmarin> It will helps you in your Hungarian testing sessions :)
16:31:16 * clown everyone knows that joanie only speaks in python
16:31:29 <joanie> I also speak in tongues
16:33:03 <jjmarin> :)
16:34:04 <jjmarin> this sounds a cool feature to talk about in the release notes :)
16:34:17 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=419742#c17
16:34:17 <tota11y> 04Bug 419742: enhancement, High, ---, jdiggs, RESOLVED FIXED, Add the ability to switch languages
16:35:08 <joanie> anyway we should move on (/me is surprised we haven't already)
16:35:30 <API> well you were talking
16:35:36 <API> anyway
16:35:36 <clown> in python!
16:35:39 <API> for minutes sake
16:35:54 <joanie> 16:30:50 <@joanie> but let's move on in terms of the meeting
16:36:00 <API> any possibility of summarize last chatting with pretty #info?
16:36:52 <joanie> #action Joanie will give Juanjo some notes about bug 491742 so he can write some release notes.
16:36:52 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=491742 critical, High, ---, gnome-applets-maint, RESOLVED OBSOLETE, crash in Disk Mounter: I was at home sleeping.
16:36:59 <joanie> the pretty info was already given
16:37:05 <joanie> namely that I finished the work
16:37:09 <joanie> (most of it)
16:37:15 <jjmarin> joanie: you're so quick :)
16:37:44 <joanie> so now can we move on?
16:37:56 <API> yes
16:38:05 <API> #topic W3C updates
16:38:07 <API> clown, ?
16:38:39 * clown notest that the last bug is wrong.
16:38:48 <joanie> ugh
16:39:00 <clown> anyhow, one update, or do you want to edit your action, joanie?
16:39:04 <joanie> #info Joanie will update the action to say bug 419742
16:39:04 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=419742 enhancement, High, ---, jdiggs, RESOLVED FIXED, Add the ability to switch languages
16:39:16 <joanie> done
16:39:20 <joanie> I'll clean up minutes later
16:39:42 * joanie reads the wrong bug and giggles
16:39:57 <clown> #info The latest public working draft of tha ARIA Authroing Best Practices document is slated for publication today (Mar 7).
16:40:09 <clown> #info the url is: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/
16:40:28 <clown> #info right now, that url points to the last (older) public working draft from 2010.
16:40:56 <clown> #info by tomorrow, it should read "7 March 2013".
16:40:58 <clown> (done).
16:42:48 <API> well
16:42:58 <API> probably there are some possible questions here
16:43:03 * joanie whispers to jjmarin that between my comment 16 and my comment 17, you might be able to craft the release notes
16:43:05 <API> but for that we would need to read that document
16:43:18 <clown> which isn't published yet...
16:43:23 <clown> … but soon...
16:43:27 <API> ah sorry
16:43:31 <API> "is slated for publication"
16:43:35 <clown> right
16:43:41 <API> I understood that was published already
16:43:42 <API> well
16:43:44 <API> in that case
16:43:56 <joanie> in that case it ain't our fault for being late!
16:43:57 <joanie> yay
16:44:09 <clown> :-)
16:44:27 <clown> If you would like, when it is published, I could announce it on the gnome-a11y list.
16:44:36 <joanie> that would be great
16:44:45 <jjmarin> that sounds a good idea
16:44:46 <joanie> my to-do list is my inbox
16:45:02 <joanie> it should be my action items from the minutes
16:45:06 <joanie> and info's from others
16:45:11 <joanie> but.... well... you know.
16:45:11 <clown> #action Joseph to annouce the publication of the ARIA Authoring Pracices Guide when it is published, on the gnome-a11y interest list.
16:45:12 <joanie> ;)
16:45:30 <joanie> thanks clown!
16:45:36 <clown> my pleasure.
16:46:17 <API> ok, then moving
16:46:32 <clown> API, on more thing, actually
16:46:37 * API waiting
16:46:38 <clown> Is this public:  https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testreport?testsuite_id=1
16:47:05 * joanie looks
16:47:15 <joanie> nope
16:47:21 <clown> foo!
16:47:26 <clown> never mind, then
16:47:36 <joanie> :)
16:48:17 <API> OK
16:48:18 <API> ups
16:48:19 <API> ok
16:48:24 <API> so moving now
16:48:27 <API> #topic Marketing
16:48:30 <API> jjmarin, ?
16:48:36 <jjmarin> #Info Juanjo was working in the gnome annual report these days, so he didn't do anything from his todo list about the release notes and wikipedia stuff :-/
16:48:49 <jjmarin> but I will
16:48:51 <jjmarin> :)
16:48:53 <joanie> :)
16:49:04 <clown> lol
16:49:14 <joanie> it's a crazy time of year
16:49:20 <joanie> we are all swamped
16:49:32 <jjmarin> yep
16:50:25 <API> anything else? questions? doubts?
16:52:16 <API> is the sound ...
16:52:18 <API> of the silence
16:52:19 <API> ok
16:52:21 <API> so moving
16:52:26 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
16:52:35 <API> something not scheduled to add?
16:54:02 <jjmarin> I want to ask joanie about how to create the profiles in orca, but I think I can do in the general a11y room
16:54:28 <joanie> it's in the orca gui preferences (aka the dialog we all pretend doesn't exist)
16:54:39 * joanie looks for the help docs
16:55:03 <joanie> https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/howto_profiles.html.en
16:55:08 <joanie> old screenshots
16:55:11 <joanie> from GNOME 2
16:55:18 <joanie> but the docs are still valid
16:55:34 <joanie> and I cannot be bothered to create new screen shots for something no one should even see
16:55:39 <joanie> (or so I'm told)
16:55:41 <joanie> ;)
16:56:38 <joanie> jjmarin: you'll also need https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/howto_key_bindings.html.en
16:56:49 <joanie> to bind the cycle settings profile command
16:56:52 <joanie> to whatever you want
16:57:05 <joanie> see under "unbinding bound commands"
16:57:47 <jjmarin> so the orca profiles are not conected with input source language profiles
16:58:51 <joanie> no
16:59:12 <joanie> Orca has default settings
16:59:33 <joanie> which will speak and present stuff in the locale associated with your current environment
16:59:44 <joanie> profiles themselves are not about languages
17:00:04 <joanie> you could have a profile for laptop settings
17:00:09 <joanie> and one for desktop
17:00:26 <joanie> or a profile with speech disabled and braille enabled
17:00:28 <joanie> or whatever
17:00:35 <joanie> profiles are strictly collections of settings
17:00:41 <joanie> which have nothing to do with language BUT
17:00:46 <clown> so, the context is anything?  For example, a profile for "morning", and another for "late afternoon".
17:00:51 <clown> ?
17:01:02 <joanie> clown: the context doesn't make sense
17:01:17 <joanie> it's about different settings being good for different tasks
17:01:29 <joanie> and therefore being able to save a set of settings is handy
17:01:39 <joanie> anyhoo
17:01:41 <clown> context could = different task
17:01:49 <joanie> k
17:02:04 <clown> but only tasks?
17:02:05 <joanie> so we've had profiles for a while (as the gnome 2 screen shots suggest) ;)
17:02:19 <joanie> no
17:02:23 <joanie> needs clown
17:02:28 <joanie> needs could be task related
17:02:34 <joanie> they could be vision related
17:02:44 <joanie> if you have fluctuating vision
17:03:06 <joanie> on good vision days (hours) you might not want Orca to spew out roles and other things
17:03:16 <joanie> on bad vision days you might find roles and the like critical
17:03:23 <clown> well, it sounds like the context could be "anything" then, as long as an anything is enough to specify a collection of settings.
17:03:51 <joanie> to me "context" isn't the right word
17:04:01 <joanie> but holy crap that's beyond the point of jjmarin's question
17:04:10 <clown> yup.  shutting up.
17:04:15 <joanie> so getting back to that
17:04:38 <joanie> jjmarin: you get that profiles are collections of settings and that Orca has it's own set of keybindings for Orca-specific commands?
17:05:26 <jjmarin> yes
17:05:30 <jjmarin> but
17:05:32 <jjmarin> I remember a command line mode asking questions about orca configuration and a gui. But right now I don't know how to get any of them :)
17:05:54 <joanie> hold down numpad insert and hit space
17:06:10 <joanie> the orca modifier by default is insert on the numpad
17:06:32 <jjmarin> trying
17:06:48 <jjmarin> magic !!!!
17:07:04 <joanie> yeah. the gui is just very well hidden where designers cannot find it
17:07:17 <jjmarin> clever !!!
17:07:24 <joanie> was a joke
17:07:41 <joanie> anyhoo, from that and the docs you should be able to set up a profile
17:08:01 <joanie> and set up a keybinding to cycle amongst profiles
17:08:08 <joanie> the cycle thing is a new feature this cycle
17:08:37 <joanie> then if the profile you set up happens to be in another language
17:08:59 <joanie> pressing your new profile-cycling keystroke will change synthesizers
17:09:11 <joanie> and if you press orca+space the gui will be in the new language
17:09:23 <joanie> and any "messages" orca speaks will be in the new language
17:09:26 <joanie> etc. etc. etc.
17:09:29 <jjmarin> in the past, you couldn't change the profile ?
17:09:40 <joanie> not by keystroke
17:09:46 <joanie> you could do so via orca preferences
17:09:56 <joanie> so like three keystrokes
17:10:12 <joanie> the idea (before language switching) is that you don't need to change profiles often
17:10:20 <joanie> some days maybe never
17:10:31 <joanie> some days maybe once or twice or thrice
17:10:46 <joanie> so the dialog was not that big of a deal
17:11:07 <joanie> with language switching, of course, you will constantly be wanting to switch
17:11:20 <jjmarin> :)
17:12:09 <jjmarin> sounds cool :)
17:12:12 * API realizes that we are 10 minutes over time
17:12:18 <joanie> sorry
17:12:27 <joanie> but this means I got an AI done
17:12:28 <joanie> yay!
17:12:30 * clown carriage just turned into a pumpkin!
17:12:38 <joanie> jjmarin: thanks for doing this
17:12:47 <jjmarin> np :)
17:13:02 <joanie> answering occasional questions about how orca works so you can write the release notes is way easier for me
17:13:10 <joanie> so i honestly appreciate it a ton
17:13:10 * API carriage turned into a smashing
17:13:25 * clown seeds everywhere!
17:13:48 <API> well, as soon as you finish your chat I will finish the meeting
17:14:03 <jjmarin> ok
17:14:16 <jjmarin> anything else :P
17:15:03 <API> well, I will close the meeting
17:15:18 <API> #endmeeting