1 16:05:17 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:05:17 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Feb 21 16:05:17 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:05:17 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:05:27 <API> #topic Accessibility shortcuts
   5 16:05:50 <API> #info as some already know there are an running effort to define default values for GNOME shortcuts
   6 16:06:16 <API> #info pinging GNOME designers about accessibility shortcuts was discussed on previous meetings
   7 16:06:33 <API> #info as email was not really productive, API pinged them via IRC
   8 16:07:00 <API> #info positive feedback from aday, so yesterday I updated that wiki page with examples on a11y-custom distros, macos and windows
   9 16:07:43 <API> #info as a reference, I mentioned that defining GNOME equivalents for activate orca
  10 16:07:52 <API> #info and the ones defined on A-1 table here:
  11 16:07:54 <API> https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/OSXAXKeyboardShortcuts/OSXAXKeyboardShortcuts.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001078-CH253-CHDIGFBH
  12 16:08:07 <API> #info would be a starting point, and probably realistic for 3.8
  13 16:08:25 <API> #action API will ping GNOME designers about this wiki update
  14 16:08:26 <API> (done)
  15 16:08:35 <API> well, this was more a information topic
  16 16:08:40 <API> than something to discuss
  17 16:08:51 <API> TheMuso helped me to get Vinux list
  18 16:09:05 <API> I need to update wiki with that, as right now it only has a link to Sonar ones
  19 16:09:06 <API> soo
  20 16:09:09 <API> questions, doubts?
  21 16:09:13 <API> comments?
  22 16:09:35 <TheMuso> I guess the only question I have, is whether its likely that the keyboard shortcut to start orca will also be used to stop it, ala Mac OS using Command F5 to turn on and off VoiceOver.
  23 16:09:57 <TheMuso> Because as I said to API yesterday, Orca is infrastructure tha tyou turn on when you need it, and if you don't need it, you turn it off again.
  24 16:10:02 <TheMuso> At leat thats how I see it.
  25 16:10:14 <TheMuso> And I use VoiceOver in OS X very much like this/.
  26 16:10:49 <API> hmm, yes, true
  27 16:10:57 <API> although not sure if current way to define
  28 16:11:07 <API> keybindings on gnonme-control-center allows that
  29 16:11:12 <joanie> I think it does
  30 16:11:14 <API> but something to ask
  31 16:11:15 <joanie> there's a switch
  32 16:11:19 <API> ok, better then
  33 16:11:22 <joanie> it's not bound
  34 16:11:23 <API> easier
  35 16:11:26 <TheMuso> I thought Orca would deal with the stop keybinding as it does now.
  36 16:11:27 <joanie> but you can bind it
  37 16:11:32 <joanie> TheMuso: no
  38 16:11:45 <TheMuso> Ok fair enough.
  39 16:12:00 <joanie> it has to now because there's no binding
  40 16:12:16 <TheMuso> Right, but new bindings are relatively easily added in gcc I guess.
  41 16:12:39 <API> TheMuso, yes it is easy to add
  42 16:12:48 <API> all this is about defining default values for those
  43 16:12:50 <API> keybindings
  44 16:12:53 <TheMuso> Actually I guess its in g-c-c, and g-s-d.
  45 16:12:56 <API> as right now by default they are undefined
  46 16:13:06 <TheMuso> Yeah I've seen them before.
  47 16:15:00 <API> so if there are no more questions, I think that we could move to next topic
  48 16:15:09 <TheMuso> Yep I'm satisfied with that answer.
  49 16:15:27 <API> ok
  50 16:15:31 <API> #topic
  51 16:15:34 <API> ups
  52 16:15:38 <TheMuso> heh
  53 16:15:51 <API> #topic Stuff we must do between now and code freeze
  54 16:15:58 <API> hmm, now that I see the agenda
  55 16:16:06 <API> this topic and the next one are really related ...
  56 16:16:09 <API> anyway, I will go on
  57 16:16:26 <API> #topic finally I got the master gnome-shell compiled
  58 16:16:29 <API> argh
  59 16:16:33 <API> #topic Stuff we must do between now and code freeze
  60 16:16:39 <API> sorry joanie, for minutes sake
  61 16:16:44 <joanie> np
  62 16:16:44 <API> #info finally I got the master gnome-shell compiled
  63 16:16:57 <API> #info this can be complex during some periods of the cycle
  64 16:17:18 <API> #info some of the UI, specifically application/folder search at the overview have changed
  65 16:17:49 <API> #action API will do an orca review to ensure that all the labels are in place, and probably a general review would be required
  66 16:18:03 <API> (done)
  67 16:18:05 <API> others?
  68 16:18:22 <mgorse> Is bug 681375 still around?
  69 16:18:22 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681375 normal, Normal, ---, empathy-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Orca keybindings not working in empathy
  70 16:18:41 <joanie> mgorse: I think so
  71 16:18:46 <mgorse> (trying to build empathy in jhbuild at the moment. Usually it doesn't build because things it depends on haven't been building for me)
  72 16:18:47 <joanie> as is another one
  73 16:19:29 * joanie is searching
  74 16:19:38 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691468
  75 16:19:38 <tota11y> 04Bug 691468: normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, UNCONFIRMED, No accessible key events
  76 16:20:28 <joanie> btw TheMuso the listener I filed on that bug can be used with Qt apps
  77 16:20:30 <joanie> http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=233145
  78 16:20:43 <TheMuso> joanie: Thanks.
  79 16:21:11 <joanie> anyhoo, mgorse were you still listing must-dos?
  80 16:21:34 <mgorse> no, I can't think of anything else at the moment
  81 16:22:02 <API> hmm, could you try to write the last part of the meeting using #infos?
  82 16:22:12 <API> I think that that would make joanie life easier with respect to minutes
  83 16:22:14 <joanie> #info We also have a crazy Gtk+ text event flood -- only in gtk demo so far, but if it happens there it could theorhetically happen anywhere.
  84 16:22:33 <joanie> #info And I still need to test Matthias' proposed patch for GtkNotebook
  85 16:22:57 <joanie> #info And I would like to see AT-SPI2 support for the new Atk get_locale()
  86 16:23:05 <mgorse> #info bugs 681375 and 691468 are still out there (Orca doesn't see keys in empathy or gnome-control-center). Could be the same bug.
  87 16:23:20 <joanie> there's also another GtkTreeView + AT-SPI2 bug
  88 16:23:24 <joanie> one sec lemme find it
  89 16:23:46 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694058
  90 16:23:46 <tota11y> 04Bug 694058: normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, Dead child nodes keep piling up when GtkTreeView item is repeatedly expanded and collapsed
  91 16:24:06 <joanie> I haven't tested that with Benjamin's fixes for other GtkTreeView issues
  92 16:24:37 <joanie> I think that's my laundry list (not counting trying to finish the profile-based language switching in Orca)
  93 16:25:27 <API> mgorse, what do you think about at-spi2 supporting the new atk get_locale()
  94 16:25:36 <API> bug 694117
  95 16:25:36 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694117 normal, Normal, ---, atk-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Add atk_object_get_locale()
  96 16:25:43 <API> in theory we can't add new API
  97 16:26:02 <API> but we can ask for an exception, and I think that this is small enough to not get too many complains
  98 16:26:23 <mgorse> Okay. Not sure when that was added, but I'd overlooked it, so makes sense
  99 16:26:54 <API> mgorse, was a last moment addition this week
 100 16:26:55 <joanie> mgorse: only recently added
 101 16:27:06 <joanie> I pinged you in irc, but you seemed to be away
 102 16:28:07 <joanie> anyhoo, I didn't file a bug for that RFE. mgorse would you like me to do so?
 103 16:28:21 <API> joanie, I think that it would be reqiured
 104 16:28:23 <API> as formally
 105 16:28:30 <API> for this we would need to ask for an exception
 106 16:28:35 <API> well
 107 16:28:36 <mgorse> yeah, probably worth doing for the sake of the release team
 108 16:28:44 <API> exactly
 109 16:29:36 <API> well, so anything else in this point?
 110 16:30:06 <API> no answers, lets move then
 111 16:30:17 <clown> Hi all.  sorry I'm late — there was a last minute teleconference.
 112 16:30:45 <API> no problem, we were able to start the meeting without you and we didn't crash the meeting-car :P
 113 16:30:59 <API> and you arrive just in time for moving to next topic ...
 114 16:31:09 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates
 115 16:31:23 <API> #topic This week was 3.7.90 release
 116 16:31:30 <API> sigh
 117 16:31:31 <API> again
 118 16:31:33 <API> sorry
 119 16:31:35 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates
 120 16:31:42 <API> #info This week was 3.7.90 release
 121 16:31:58 <API> #info this means that officially some freezes started
 122 16:32:34 <API> #info specifically: UI freeze, API/ABI freeze
 123 16:32:52 <API> #info next release (3.7.91) is in two weeks (so you only have one week to make changes)
 124 16:33:06 <API> #info 3.7.91 means String Freeze
 125 16:33:34 <API> #info 3.7.92 will be on Mar 18, and means Hard Code Freeze
 126 16:34:02 <API> #info on the previous topic we listed the work we want to do between this week release and hard-code freeze, but in summary: bug fixing
 127 16:34:08 <API> (done)
 128 16:34:13 <API> any other update=
 129 16:34:14 <API> ?
 130 16:34:18 <API> comments, doubts?
 131 16:35:14 <joanie> #info Joanie added the profile-based language switching to Orca. This means that if a user sets up profiles for different languages and binds the command to cycle amongst profiles, he/she can quickly change Orca's language.
 132 16:35:37 <joanie> #info Joanie still has nits, etc. to work out. But it's largely done.
 133 16:35:40 <joanie> (done)
 134 16:38:03 * joanie guesses she is the only one in race-to-the-finish-line-to-add-stuff mode
 135 16:38:06 <joanie> ;)
 136 16:38:50 * clown if she's the only one, she will win...
 137 16:38:56 <TheMuso> lol
 138 16:39:21 <API> well, in my defense, bugfixing is also adding-stuff
 139 16:39:26 <API> is adding solutions ;)
 140 16:39:28 <API> having said so
 141 16:39:34 <API> and as nobody else is talking
 142 16:39:38 <API> will move to next topic
 143 16:39:52 <API> #topic W3C updates
 144 16:39:54 <API> clown=
 145 16:39:55 <API> ?
 146 16:40:14 <clown> I'll infor some things for those who are working on Cloud for all.
 147 16:40:37 <clown> first, can someone check that this mailing list is public:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Feb/
 148 16:40:46 <clown> can you get to that url without having to log in?
 149 16:41:36 <joanie> clown: looks like we can
 150 16:41:43 <clown> cool.  thanks joanie
 151 16:42:02 <clown> #info There is a lot of discussion in the IndieUI mailing list about user preferences/needs and how they could be used by a browser.
 152 16:42:21 <clown> #info These are coming, in part, from Cloud for all.
 153 16:42:54 <clown> #info Interested parties should read the thread.  It starts here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Feb/0025.html
 154 16:43:11 <clown> #info  And, feel free to add to the discussion.
 155 16:43:21 <clown> questions?
 156 16:44:24 <joanie> clown: where did that discussion start?
 157 16:44:43 <joanie> Andy Heath says basically "here's a zip file, sorry it's late"
 158 16:44:44 <clown> joanie:  not sure what you mean by "where"?
 159 16:44:50 <clown> Oh, that...
 160 16:44:56 <joanie> and looking at the zip file, it's not clear to me what it is
 161 16:45:27 <clown> at various telecons last fall, Andy was tasked with providing a document describing the prefs.
 162 16:45:45 <clown> he was given a deadline to provide that document.
 163 16:45:53 <clown> he missed his a deadline a bit.
 164 16:46:16 <clown> the zip file should be an HTML file plus relevant CSS files.
 165 16:46:25 <joanie> yeah
 166 16:46:43 <clown> I confess that I haven't downloaded it — does it not work?
 167 16:47:12 <joanie> no I have text
 168 16:47:17 <joanie> no == it works
 169 16:47:25 <joanie> it's just the lack of context, etc.
 170 16:48:06 <clown> The work was started years ago with ISO and IMS (another standards body).
 171 16:48:35 <clown> The IndieUI group was formed, in part, to somehow move these prefs into browsers — for example,
 172 16:49:15 <clown> I want captions on my videos.  I somehow set that up, and as I browser, say YouTube, I get captions "on" where there are captions to be had.
 173 16:49:26 <clown> "as I browse"
 174 16:49:36 * joanie nods
 175 16:50:45 <joanie> well, I don't have any more for-this-meeting questions
 176 16:50:47 <clown> the IndieUI group is trying to figure out how to make happen in terms of how to specify an API for browsers to (1) track prefs (2) impose them where possible.
 177 16:51:21 * clown would like a better word than "impose".
 178 16:51:27 <API> me neither
 179 16:51:33 <API> clown, "force"
 180 16:51:51 <clown> "configure the user experience apropos the user's needs and preferences"
 181 16:52:12 <API> having said so
 182 16:52:26 <API> and as its almos meeting time
 183 16:52:33 <API> clown, thanks for the review,
 184 16:52:40 <API> not sure if I will be able to take a look to that
 185 16:52:45 <API> but will try (or something)
 186 16:52:46 <clown> no problem.  hope it's somewhat comprehensible
 187 16:53:02 <API> yes, the global idea is comprehensible
 188 16:53:13 <API> I guess that the tricky part is the real definition
 189 16:53:17 <API> and implementation
 190 16:53:24 <API> that is the thing that would need more time to review
 191 16:53:49 <API> #topic marketing
 192 16:53:59 <API> jjmarin already told us that he will not be there
 193 16:54:08 <API> so unless someone has an update to share ....
 194 16:54:14 <API> I will move to next topic
 195 16:54:15 <API> someone?
 196 16:55:05 <API> no one
 197 16:55:11 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 198 16:55:22 <API> someone want to share with all the people here something not scheduled?
 199 16:57:55 <API> seems that the answer to my question is
 200 16:57:55 <API> no
 201 16:58:00 <API> nothing misc to share
 202 16:58:04 <API> so i will end the meeting
 203 16:58:09 <API> thanks everybody for being here
 204 16:58:14 <API> see you next week, or something
 205 16:58:17 <API> #endmeeting