16:05:17 #startmeeting 16:05:17 Meeting started Thu Feb 21 16:05:17 2013 CET. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:05:17 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:05:27 #topic Accessibility shortcuts 16:05:50 #info as some already know there are an running effort to define default values for GNOME shortcuts 16:06:16 #info pinging GNOME designers about accessibility shortcuts was discussed on previous meetings 16:06:33 #info as email was not really productive, API pinged them via IRC 16:07:00 #info positive feedback from aday, so yesterday I updated that wiki page with examples on a11y-custom distros, macos and windows 16:07:43 #info as a reference, I mentioned that defining GNOME equivalents for activate orca 16:07:52 #info and the ones defined on A-1 table here: 16:07:54 https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/OSXAXKeyboardShortcuts/OSXAXKeyboardShortcuts.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001078-CH253-CHDIGFBH 16:08:07 #info would be a starting point, and probably realistic for 3.8 16:08:25 #action API will ping GNOME designers about this wiki update 16:08:26 (done) 16:08:35 well, this was more a information topic 16:08:40 than something to discuss 16:08:51 TheMuso helped me to get Vinux list 16:09:05 I need to update wiki with that, as right now it only has a link to Sonar ones 16:09:06 soo 16:09:09 questions, doubts? 16:09:13 comments? 16:09:35 I guess the only question I have, is whether its likely that the keyboard shortcut to start orca will also be used to stop it, ala Mac OS using Command F5 to turn on and off VoiceOver. 16:09:57 Because as I said to API yesterday, Orca is infrastructure tha tyou turn on when you need it, and if you don't need it, you turn it off again. 16:10:02 At leat thats how I see it. 16:10:14 And I use VoiceOver in OS X very much like this/. 16:10:49 hmm, yes, true 16:10:57 although not sure if current way to define 16:11:07 keybindings on gnonme-control-center allows that 16:11:12 I think it does 16:11:14 but something to ask 16:11:15 there's a switch 16:11:19 ok, better then 16:11:22 it's not bound 16:11:23 easier 16:11:26 I thought Orca would deal with the stop keybinding as it does now. 16:11:27 but you can bind it 16:11:32 TheMuso: no 16:11:45 Ok fair enough. 16:12:00 it has to now because there's no binding 16:12:16 Right, but new bindings are relatively easily added in gcc I guess. 16:12:39 TheMuso, yes it is easy to add 16:12:48 all this is about defining default values for those 16:12:50 keybindings 16:12:53 Actually I guess its in g-c-c, and g-s-d. 16:12:56 as right now by default they are undefined 16:13:06 Yeah I've seen them before. 16:15:00 so if there are no more questions, I think that we could move to next topic 16:15:09 Yep I'm satisfied with that answer. 16:15:27 ok 16:15:31 #topic 16:15:34 ups 16:15:38 heh 16:15:51 #topic Stuff we must do between now and code freeze 16:15:58 hmm, now that I see the agenda 16:16:06 this topic and the next one are really related ... 16:16:09 anyway, I will go on 16:16:26 #topic finally I got the master gnome-shell compiled 16:16:29 argh 16:16:33 #topic Stuff we must do between now and code freeze 16:16:39 sorry joanie, for minutes sake 16:16:44 np 16:16:44 #info finally I got the master gnome-shell compiled 16:16:57 #info this can be complex during some periods of the cycle 16:17:18 #info some of the UI, specifically application/folder search at the overview have changed 16:17:49 #action API will do an orca review to ensure that all the labels are in place, and probably a general review would be required 16:18:03 (done) 16:18:05 others? 16:18:22 Is bug 681375 still around? 16:18:22 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681375 normal, Normal, ---, empathy-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Orca keybindings not working in empathy 16:18:41 mgorse: I think so 16:18:46 (trying to build empathy in jhbuild at the moment. Usually it doesn't build because things it depends on haven't been building for me) 16:18:47 as is another one 16:19:29 * joanie is searching 16:19:38 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691468 16:19:38 04Bug 691468: normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, UNCONFIRMED, No accessible key events 16:20:28 btw TheMuso the listener I filed on that bug can be used with Qt apps 16:20:30 http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=233145 16:20:43 joanie: Thanks. 16:21:11 anyhoo, mgorse were you still listing must-dos? 16:21:34 no, I can't think of anything else at the moment 16:22:02 hmm, could you try to write the last part of the meeting using #infos? 16:22:12 I think that that would make joanie life easier with respect to minutes 16:22:14 #info We also have a crazy Gtk+ text event flood -- only in gtk demo so far, but if it happens there it could theorhetically happen anywhere. 16:22:33 #info And I still need to test Matthias' proposed patch for GtkNotebook 16:22:57 #info And I would like to see AT-SPI2 support for the new Atk get_locale() 16:23:05 #info bugs 681375 and 691468 are still out there (Orca doesn't see keys in empathy or gnome-control-center). Could be the same bug. 16:23:20 there's also another GtkTreeView + AT-SPI2 bug 16:23:24 one sec lemme find it 16:23:46 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694058 16:23:46 04Bug 694058: normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, Dead child nodes keep piling up when GtkTreeView item is repeatedly expanded and collapsed 16:24:06 I haven't tested that with Benjamin's fixes for other GtkTreeView issues 16:24:37 I think that's my laundry list (not counting trying to finish the profile-based language switching in Orca) 16:25:27 mgorse, what do you think about at-spi2 supporting the new atk get_locale() 16:25:36 bug 694117 16:25:36 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694117 normal, Normal, ---, atk-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Add atk_object_get_locale() 16:25:43 in theory we can't add new API 16:26:02 but we can ask for an exception, and I think that this is small enough to not get too many complains 16:26:23 Okay. Not sure when that was added, but I'd overlooked it, so makes sense 16:26:54 mgorse, was a last moment addition this week 16:26:55 mgorse: only recently added 16:27:06 I pinged you in irc, but you seemed to be away 16:28:07 anyhoo, I didn't file a bug for that RFE. mgorse would you like me to do so? 16:28:21 joanie, I think that it would be reqiured 16:28:23 as formally 16:28:30 for this we would need to ask for an exception 16:28:35 well 16:28:36 yeah, probably worth doing for the sake of the release team 16:28:44 exactly 16:29:36 well, so anything else in this point? 16:30:06 no answers, lets move then 16:30:17 Hi all. sorry I'm late — there was a last minute teleconference. 16:30:45 no problem, we were able to start the meeting without you and we didn't crash the meeting-car :P 16:30:59 and you arrive just in time for moving to next topic ... 16:31:09 #topic GNOME 3.8 updates 16:31:23 #topic This week was 3.7.90 release 16:31:30 sigh 16:31:31 again 16:31:33 sorry 16:31:35 #topic GNOME 3.8 updates 16:31:42 #info This week was 3.7.90 release 16:31:58 #info this means that officially some freezes started 16:32:34 #info specifically: UI freeze, API/ABI freeze 16:32:52 #info next release (3.7.91) is in two weeks (so you only have one week to make changes) 16:33:06 #info 3.7.91 means String Freeze 16:33:34 #info 3.7.92 will be on Mar 18, and means Hard Code Freeze 16:34:02 #info on the previous topic we listed the work we want to do between this week release and hard-code freeze, but in summary: bug fixing 16:34:08 (done) 16:34:13 any other update= 16:34:14 ? 16:34:18 comments, doubts? 16:35:14 #info Joanie added the profile-based language switching to Orca. This means that if a user sets up profiles for different languages and binds the command to cycle amongst profiles, he/she can quickly change Orca's language. 16:35:37 #info Joanie still has nits, etc. to work out. But it's largely done. 16:35:40 (done) 16:38:03 * joanie guesses she is the only one in race-to-the-finish-line-to-add-stuff mode 16:38:06 ;) 16:38:50 * clown if she's the only one, she will win... 16:38:56 lol 16:39:21 well, in my defense, bugfixing is also adding-stuff 16:39:26 is adding solutions ;) 16:39:28 having said so 16:39:34 and as nobody else is talking 16:39:38 will move to next topic 16:39:52 #topic W3C updates 16:39:54 clown= 16:39:55 ? 16:40:14 I'll infor some things for those who are working on Cloud for all. 16:40:37 first, can someone check that this mailing list is public: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Feb/ 16:40:46 can you get to that url without having to log in? 16:41:36 clown: looks like we can 16:41:43 cool. thanks joanie 16:42:02 #info There is a lot of discussion in the IndieUI mailing list about user preferences/needs and how they could be used by a browser. 16:42:21 #info These are coming, in part, from Cloud for all. 16:42:54 #info Interested parties should read the thread. It starts here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Feb/0025.html 16:43:11 #info And, feel free to add to the discussion. 16:43:21 questions? 16:44:24 clown: where did that discussion start? 16:44:43 Andy Heath says basically "here's a zip file, sorry it's late" 16:44:44 joanie: not sure what you mean by "where"? 16:44:50 Oh, that... 16:44:56 and looking at the zip file, it's not clear to me what it is 16:45:27 at various telecons last fall, Andy was tasked with providing a document describing the prefs. 16:45:45 he was given a deadline to provide that document. 16:45:53 he missed his a deadline a bit. 16:46:16 the zip file should be an HTML file plus relevant CSS files. 16:46:25 yeah 16:46:43 I confess that I haven't downloaded it — does it not work? 16:47:12 no I have text 16:47:17 no == it works 16:47:25 it's just the lack of context, etc. 16:48:06 The work was started years ago with ISO and IMS (another standards body). 16:48:35 The IndieUI group was formed, in part, to somehow move these prefs into browsers — for example, 16:49:15 I want captions on my videos. I somehow set that up, and as I browser, say YouTube, I get captions "on" where there are captions to be had. 16:49:26 "as I browse" 16:49:36 * joanie nods 16:50:45 well, I don't have any more for-this-meeting questions 16:50:47 the IndieUI group is trying to figure out how to make happen in terms of how to specify an API for browsers to (1) track prefs (2) impose them where possible. 16:51:21 * clown would like a better word than "impose". 16:51:27 me neither 16:51:33 clown, "force" 16:51:51 "configure the user experience apropos the user's needs and preferences" 16:52:12 having said so 16:52:26 and as its almos meeting time 16:52:33 clown, thanks for the review, 16:52:40 not sure if I will be able to take a look to that 16:52:45 but will try (or something) 16:52:46 no problem. hope it's somewhat comprehensible 16:53:02 yes, the global idea is comprehensible 16:53:13 I guess that the tricky part is the real definition 16:53:17 and implementation 16:53:24 that is the thing that would need more time to review 16:53:49 #topic marketing 16:53:59 jjmarin already told us that he will not be there 16:54:08 so unless someone has an update to share .... 16:54:14 I will move to next topic 16:54:15 someone? 16:55:05 no one 16:55:11 #topic miscellaneous time 16:55:22 someone want to share with all the people here something not scheduled? 16:57:55 seems that the answer to my question is 16:57:55 no 16:58:00 nothing misc to share 16:58:04 so i will end the meeting 16:58:09 thanks everybody for being here 16:58:14 see you next week, or something 16:58:17 #endmeeting