1 16:08:18 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:08:18 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jan 17 16:08:18 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:08:18 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:08:19 <API> now
   5 16:08:40 <API> #topic Caribou and Mousetrap
   6 16:09:10 <API> #info some weeks ago Daiki Ueno was interested on being caribou maintainer
   7 16:09:21 <API> #info This week we were talking with eitan, and he sees that a good idea
   8 16:09:41 <API> #info eitan said that he will send a mail to daiki ueno soon
   9 16:10:01 <mgorse> Ugh. Sorry. Lost track of time.
  10 16:10:09 <API> #info extra: it is seems that daiki ueno lives in Japan, something to take into account when pinging him
  11 16:10:11 <API> mgorse, no problem
  12 16:10:15 <API> we have just started
  13 16:10:42 <API> #action API will wath over this, in order to ensure that Daiki receives the message, and also giving hints about releases
  14 16:10:49 <API> joanie, ?
  15 16:10:53 <API> I think that you would be the best
  16 16:10:57 <API> to talk about mousetrap here
  17 16:11:00 <joanie> ok
  18 16:11:05 <joanie> I'll info like you did
  19 16:11:20 <API> makes sense
  20 16:11:44 <joanie> #info There is a new NSF-funded program called FOSS2SERVE
  21 16:12:01 <mgorse> Oh, that sounds awesome :)
  22 16:12:41 <joanie> #info This program is designed to get profs more comfortable with and actively teaching free software with a humanitarian focus in university CS courses.
  23 16:13:23 <joanie> #info The program is a collaboration between Western New England University (Heidi), Drexel University, and Nassau Community College.
  24 16:13:57 <joanie> #info As part of this, and as part of my idea to do an outreach program for professors, we are giving Mousetrap to them as a module.
  25 16:14:18 <joanie> #info The students are beginning work on making Mousetrap GNOME 3 compatible
  26 16:14:41 <joanie> #info And Piñeiro and I will be more or less mentoring the professors on being module maintainers
  27 16:14:53 <joanie> #info And doing so according to GNOME practice
  28 16:15:19 <joanie> #info If, for some reason, nothing becomes of this, we lose nothing.
  29 16:15:38 <joanie> #info And we stand to gain more contributors and getting Mousetrap back into shape.
  30 16:15:55 <joanie> #info And ultimately accepted as a proper module and AT.
  31 16:16:19 <joanie> #info We may or may not see students in #a11y. Currently they are going to use #mousetrap.
  32 16:16:44 <joanie> #info But if any students (or professors) show up asking questions about Mousetrap, this is why. :) And please help them. :)
  33 16:16:49 <joanie> I think that covers it
  34 16:17:09 <joanie> and sorry for being slow. I have a migraine and a 3G connection thanks to comcast.
  35 16:17:53 <API> no problem
  36 16:17:55 <API> was good
  37 16:18:12 <API> so, any question doubt comment about caribou and mousetrup stuff that we shared?
  38 16:18:17 <API> *mousetrap
  39 16:18:18 <jjmarin> faster than me ;-)
  40 16:18:40 <jjmarin> sorry, who is daiki ?
  41 16:19:25 <API> daiki ueno
  42 16:19:31 <API> is a developer who is doing most
  43 16:19:37 <API> of the recent work of caribou
  44 16:19:46 <API> and when I say most, is about 95% of the commits
  45 16:19:54 <API> me being just the releaser
  46 16:20:16 <API> he is experienced on this virtual keyboard thing, as was (is) the maintainer of eekboard
  47 16:20:25 <API> and also have experience on input methods
  48 16:20:36 <API> he collaborate now and then with rui matos
  49 16:20:40 <API> (IRC: rtcm)
  50 16:20:46 <jjmarin> ok, thanks !
  51 16:21:03 <API> you are welcome
  52 16:21:21 <API> ok, so lets move
  53 16:21:23 <API> #topic Python 3 (Are we there yet?)
  54 16:21:31 <API> well, this week was release week
  55 16:21:33 * joanie smiles at jhernandez
  56 16:21:37 <API> and we had a accerciser release
  57 16:21:39 <API> so ...
  58 16:21:42 <API> jhernandez, ?
  59 16:21:48 <API> something to mention about that last release?
  60 16:21:58 <joanie> on the topic of Python 3
  61 16:22:00 <joanie> :)
  62 16:22:13 <jhernandez> yes
  63 16:23:11 <jhernandez> #info There were a few bugs regarding the newly Python3 code
  64 16:23:55 <jhernandez> #info Joanie did a good work reporting bugs and providing patches. All patches have been reviwed and merged into master.
  65 16:25:03 <jhernandez> #info So Accerciser 3.7.4 seems to be the definitive-and-working Python3 release
  66 16:25:07 <jhernandez> (done)
  67 16:25:08 <jhernandez> :]
  68 16:25:15 <API> well, that seems good ;)
  69 16:25:16 <API> thanks
  70 16:25:19 <joanie> so that leaves the mag example
  71 16:25:31 <API> well, and as clown is not here
  72 16:25:31 <joanie> which is not a requirement
  73 16:25:37 <API> unless you have information about that
  74 16:25:41 <joanie> but since it is not python 3 related....
  75 16:25:50 <joanie> no info
  76 16:25:58 <API> ok, then I will add some info myself
  77 16:26:03 <joanie> but I am wondering if we should remove it
  78 16:26:04 <joanie> ok
  79 16:26:13 <API> #info I tried to do a python3 build of the gnome stack
  80 16:26:44 <API> #info by setting os.environ['PYTHON'] = 'python3.3' at my .jhbuild rc
  81 16:26:51 <API> #info some relevant modules are still not ported
  82 16:27:09 <API> #info specific example: gobject-introspection
  83 16:27:31 <API> #info talking with Colin Walters, seems to suggest that he doesn't plan to fix that soon, but that patches are welcome
  84 16:27:49 <API> #info current python3 porting table: https://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/Python3Porting
  85 16:28:07 <mgorse> Oh, right--I noticed that, too. Seems that there is C code that refers to Python structures that needs to be ported.
  86 16:28:40 <API> #info why I was mentioning it? /me fears that 3.8 will be still a python mixed release, so it seems that as usually, we did our homework before a lot of people
  87 16:29:14 <joanie> But I can run Orca and Accerciser in Fedora 18 with Python 3
  88 16:29:22 <API> it seems that in general we feel the pressure of those gnome goals stronger that others
  89 16:29:28 <API> joanie, that is good
  90 16:29:35 <joanie> so either it's a non-issue or distros are fixing it for us
  91 16:29:46 <API> what I mean is that on a 3.8 environment
  92 16:29:56 <API> probably it would be still required to have python2
  93 16:30:06 <API> so that old "ubuntu xxx will only ship python3"
  94 16:30:14 <API> still seems unrealistic to me
  95 16:30:35 <API> it was basically a FYI bunch of #infos
  96 16:30:47 <API> so, any other question, comment doubt about python3?
  97 16:30:48 <mgorse> I hope the release team doesn't ask everyone to port back to Python 2 again--I remember mclasen saying that requiring both Python 2 and Python 3 is a non-starter
  98 16:30:51 <joanie> distros will keep shipping python 2 for other modules not gnome
  99 16:31:19 <API> mgorse, I also hope that (/me says with his release team hat)
 100 16:31:33 <API> joanie, really?
 101 16:31:49 <joanie> maybe not on live CDs
 102 16:31:58 <API> in that sense, now I really stopped to understand that "soon ubuntu will only ship python3"
 103 16:32:01 <API> ah ok
 104 16:32:15 <API> so, moving?
 105 16:32:18 <joanie> but I suspect there's all sorts of downstream stuff that is still python 2 based
 106 16:32:40 <joanie> not moving yet
 107 16:32:48 <joanie> two questions
 108 16:33:07 <joanie> does matthias and others know about the gobject-introspection "patches welcome" thing?
 109 16:33:48 * joanie waits for API
 110 16:33:57 <API> well, when I was talking about g-i with
 111 16:34:01 <API> Colin Walters
 112 16:34:03 <API> on #testable
 113 16:34:07 <API> matthias was around
 114 16:34:17 <joanie> and paying attention?
 115 16:34:29 <API> he also replied some Colin walter (is glib already python3 compliant) questions
 116 16:34:33 <mgorse> Or maybe that just means that the release team needs to try to find someone to fix that module
 117 16:34:38 <API> so he was paying attention to the conversation
 118 16:34:40 <joanie> ok
 119 16:34:49 <API> don't know if he realized that "patches are welcome" thing
 120 16:35:03 <API> mgorse, afaik, the one looking at g-i is colin walters
 121 16:35:10 <API> at least he did the last releases of that module
 122 16:35:27 <joanie> my other question is about the gnome-shell mag example
 123 16:35:45 <joanie> should we remove it from pyatspi until it is python 3 compatible?
 124 16:35:51 <joanie> I think we should
 125 16:36:14 <API> well, it is just an example
 126 16:36:22 <API> anyway, don't know/I'm not sure
 127 16:36:22 <joanie> so it is not critical
 128 16:36:34 <joanie> and it is not python 3 compatible
 129 16:36:49 <joanie> and it's not just a matter of simple changes
 130 16:36:55 <joanie> it's dbusy stuff as well
 131 16:37:12 <joanie> so the example doesn't work in a python 3 world
 132 16:37:38 <joanie> so it's a not-important, non-functioning, example that people complain about not being python 3 ready
 133 16:37:50 <joanie> so why not remove it until it is ready
 134 16:39:13 <jhernandez> IMVHO
 135 16:39:24 <jhernandez> let the maintainer decide it
 136 16:39:43 <joanie> mgorse: as the maintainer of pyatspi, what do you think?
 137 16:40:26 <mgorse> I think I'll just remove it from the distribution for now (ie, keep it in git but don't distribute the examples directory)
 138 16:40:41 <joanie> ok
 139 16:40:55 <mgorse> either that or I could add a comment that it needs Python 2
 140 16:41:11 <joanie> or both
 141 16:41:21 <mgorse> On the other hand, it provides an example for how to use pyatspi
 142 16:41:33 <joanie> we could write a new example
 143 16:41:37 <joanie> that functions in python 3
 144 16:41:48 <mgorse> Having some sort of example would be good
 145 16:41:53 * joanie nods
 146 16:42:14 <API> yeah, probably maitaning it on master, but not distributing it, would be a good middle-term solution
 147 16:42:21 <joanie> +1
 148 16:42:35 <mgorse> okay then; I'll do that for now
 149 16:42:36 <joanie> and it would make us officially Python 3 ready
 150 16:42:44 <joanie> go us
 151 16:42:46 <joanie> :)
 152 16:43:07 <joanie> that should probably be infoed
 153 16:43:10 <joanie> for the minutes
 154 16:44:37 <API> mgorse, could you #info the recent stuff?
 155 16:45:43 <mgorse> #info The pyatspi example is not Python3-ready yet. mgorse will remove it from the distribution for now.
 156 16:46:01 <API> ok thanks
 157 16:46:04 <API> so, moving now?
 158 16:46:08 <joanie> yeah
 159 16:46:10 <joanie> thanks
 160 16:46:14 <API> ok
 161 16:46:17 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates
 162 16:46:33 <joanie> I think that was covered in the previous topic
 163 16:46:48 <API> #info current week (w3) was a GNOME release week
 164 16:47:05 <API> #info specifically 3.7.4
 165 16:47:27 <API> #info just to mention that ATK added new API, versioning tools so apps/libraries could get the ATK version being used
 166 16:47:41 <API> and as joanie said, a lot of stuff was already mentioned on python3 topic
 167 16:47:50 <API> so thats all for me
 168 16:47:54 <API> anyother?
 169 16:48:04 <API> (wants to add something on this topic)
 170 16:48:12 <joanie> not from me. I just keep on keepin' on
 171 16:50:06 <joanie> moving on?
 172 16:50:55 <API> taking into account that nobody stepped
 173 16:50:58 <API> ok with moving
 174 16:51:09 <API> #topic W3C updates
 175 16:51:22 <API> #info joseph is not at the meeting, so no update from him
 176 16:51:28 <API> joanie, any update from your side?
 177 16:51:33 <joanie> nope
 178 16:52:16 <API> ok
 179 16:52:23 <API> #topic Marketing
 180 16:52:24 <API> jjmarin, ?
 181 16:52:48 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo is still working in a accessibility (Spanish) article for gnome hispano
 182 16:52:57 <jjmarin> API: Do you mind to check it out before send it to the gnome hispano list ?
 183 16:54:08 <jjmarin> and well., maybe joanie can practise her Spanish as well :-)
 184 16:54:13 <joanie> heh
 185 16:54:52 * joanie wonders if API fell asleep
 186 16:55:23 <joanie> or maybe he has comcast
 187 16:55:25 <API> I'm ok about reviewing it
 188 16:55:36 <API> jjmarin, could you add an action about that?
 189 16:55:45 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will send to API for corrections in the following days
 190 16:56:05 <jjmarin> done ! no more from me
 191 16:56:41 <jjmarin> anything you want from marketing ?
 192 16:56:54 <API> no from my side
 193 16:57:35 <jjmarin> ok, we can move on then
 194 16:57:36 <API> as no one else asked
 195 16:57:40 <API> exactly
 196 16:57:41 <jjmarin> :-)
 197 16:57:46 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 198 16:57:55 <API> anyone want to add something not previously scheduled?
 199 16:58:03 <joanie> #info For the record, comcast sucks.
 200 16:58:06 <joanie> done
 201 16:58:08 <joanie> ;)
 202 16:59:32 <jjmarin> Spanish telcom as well (and expensive) :-)
 203 17:01:02 * joanie suggests we close the meeting
 204 17:01:18 <API> yep, seems a good suggestion
 205 17:01:23 <API> so thanks everybody
 206 17:01:26 <tota11y> API: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
 207 17:01:28 <API> ups
 208 17:01:30 <API> #endmeeting