Attachment '20130110_log.txt'

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   1 16:07:07 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:07:07 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jan 10 16:07:07 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:07:07 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:07:50 <API> #topic About meetings starting time, quorum and waiting for people
   5 16:08:41 <API> #info In some cases, we didn't have too many people on the meeting
   6 16:09:01 <API> #info in those occasions, we were wondering about cancelling the meeting, or just doing a short meeting
   7 16:09:22 <API> #info but in most of the cases, we waited like 30 minutes for people
   8 16:09:37 <API> #info this happened recently, mostly due Christmas holidays
   9 16:10:21 <API> #info last week we did that, we started 30 minutes late, but in the end the meeting was longer that expected and we finished more than 30 minutes late
  10 16:10:33 <API> #info and that was not the first time that happened
  11 16:11:04 <API> #info taking into account that starting 30 minutes late, and ending 30 minutes late is somewhat silly
  12 16:11:44 <API> #info for now on, if there are people when the meeting starts, and someone willing to lead the meeting, we are going to start the meeting at time (or at least, just waiting 5 minutes instead of 30)
  13 16:12:15 <API> #info if meeting finish on 10 minutes, that would be ok, people would be free to go out without being 30 minutes wandering at the IRC
  14 16:12:16 <API> done
  15 16:12:20 <API> questions, doubts?
  16 16:12:34 <joanie> makes sense to me
  17 16:12:42 <joanie> I think I'll info something additional though
  18 16:13:18 <joanie> #info If we do not have enough people for a quorum, we will discuss but not make binding decisions at the meeting in question.
  19 16:13:26 <joanie> (done)
  20 16:14:51 <API> ok, then lets move
  21 16:15:01 <API> #topic JAW Update (Sorta)
  22 16:15:08 <API> well I don't have anything new here
  23 16:15:15 <joanie> I sorta do
  24 16:15:30 <API> your turn then
  25 16:15:45 <joanie> #info At the end of last week, Joanie did a little bit of investigation on making JAW build
  26 16:16:06 <joanie> #info It was a slow process of make a change, try again, google, read docs, rinse and repeat
  27 16:16:52 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks that given the lack of response from everyone else, perhaps she and Mike and PiƱeiro and *maybe* Javier Jardon can get this problem solved
  28 16:17:27 <joanie> #info Joanie mentions Javier because he has autotools skills (she thinks)
  29 16:17:58 <joanie> #info Once the blessed thing builds, then we can start debugging and get things re-working.
  30 16:18:16 <joanie> #info Or make a more educated judgment that it's not worth the effort
  31 16:18:19 <joanie> done
  32 16:18:21 <joanie> thoughts?
  33 16:18:25 <mgorse> I'm not seeing the build error on my box, fwiw
  34 16:18:41 <joanie> mgorse: really?
  35 16:18:51 <joanie> what version of gnome, autotools, etc.?
  36 16:19:12 <mgorse> GNOME 3.6, automake 1.12, autoconf 2.69... I'll try with jhbuild
  37 16:19:28 <joanie> mgorse: I tried with those same things
  38 16:19:35 <joanie> though not sure about the autoconf version
  39 16:19:38 * joanie looks
  40 16:19:56 <joanie> yup 2.69
  41 16:20:34 <mgorse> I just tried in my jhbuild environment, and I do get an error there
  42 16:20:40 <joanie> anyhoo.... if you and others will help me sort this out, I'm willing to here-and-there try to solve it
  43 16:20:44 <joanie> yay for errors!
  44 16:21:10 <joanie> I can't focus on or prioritize this myself. But clearly neither can Oracle ;)
  45 16:21:23 <joanie> and my money is on us over Oracle any day of the week.
  46 16:21:26 <mgorse> actually, I thin kit's warnings that jhbuild is treating as errors
  47 16:22:01 <joanie> API what do you think about us tackling this?
  48 16:22:09 <joanie> if we don't spend a bunch of time on it
  49 16:22:12 <joanie> ?
  50 16:22:21 <API> don't understand last question
  51 16:22:45 <joanie> API one of the previous discussion questions was: Do we even care about Swing apps?
  52 16:22:46 <API> I agree that I see really unlikely Oracle taking a look to this
  53 16:23:09 <joanie> if we definitively don't care about Swing apps, we can declare it abandonware
  54 16:23:16 <joanie> if we do care (because our users do)
  55 16:23:22 <joanie> then we need someone to do something
  56 16:23:33 <API> well, first step would see
  57 16:23:40 <API> which "popular" apps are using Swing
  58 16:23:57 <API> taking a look to orca list, some people were asking about Jaw
  59 16:24:04 * joanie nods
  60 16:24:08 <API> but I don't remember any specifc application mentioned
  61 16:24:09 <mgorse> Does anyone here know Java already?
  62 16:24:17 <joanie> not I
  63 16:24:25 <joanie> but on a related note....
  64 16:24:48 <API> last time I used Java when when I was a student
  65 16:24:56 <joanie> During my presentation at fossa, I learned that apparently european universities are big on using java as their course language
  66 16:25:00 <joanie> see! :)
  67 16:25:15 * API well, also a brief look when I was looking at Android, but just a look not really developing
  68 16:25:16 <joanie> and I've since heard that from Univ of Connecticut Hartford
  69 16:25:17 * jhernandez timidly rises his hand
  70 16:25:31 <joanie> jhernandez: You don't have time
  71 16:25:35 <jhernandez> at all
  72 16:25:36 <jhernandez> xDDD
  73 16:25:38 <API> joanie, in fact, I think that the recent trend is start to use Java from the beginning
  74 16:25:54 <joanie> my CS course work was 20+ years ago
  75 16:25:56 <API> when I was a student, it was at the 3rd course etc
  76 16:26:10 <joanie> we did Lisp, scheme, and really ancient c++
  77 16:26:26 <joanie> oh and pascal
  78 16:26:28 <joanie> ;)
  79 16:26:30 <API> anyway, jhernandez do you want to mention something?
  80 16:26:38 <jhernandez> nope
  81 16:26:56 <joanie> api I think he was raising it because he knows java
  82 16:27:01 <jhernandez> I mentioned that i know java
  83 16:27:02 <API> ah ok
  84 16:27:12 <joanie> but between cloud4all, life, and Accerciser still not being Python 3 ready....
  85 16:27:13 <jhernandez> but without more intentions
  86 16:27:14 <API> so volunteering to take a look to jaw ;)
  87 16:27:26 <joanie> I would rather jhernandez focus on his module first
  88 16:27:26 <API> I knew that
  89 16:27:34 <joanie> and if time later permits
  90 16:27:37 <API> makes sense
  91 16:27:39 <joanie> then hell yeah, please help with JAW
  92 16:27:48 <jhernandez> anyway, I know people with java skills an could be interested in
  93 16:28:21 <API> anyway, as I said before, we don't know if that is relevant
  94 16:28:33 <API> as I said, no application was mentioned on that orca list
  95 16:28:42 <mgorse> I feel like whoever fixes something will become the de facto maintainer
  96 16:28:43 <API> so what about first decide if jaw is important or not?
  97 16:28:50 <API> mgorse, yes true
  98 16:28:59 <joanie> Part of it is relevant in so far as Orca users have raised it and mentioned trying it
  99 16:29:10 <API> mgorse, anyone willing to do some work on jaw will receive it with a pretty lace
 100 16:29:13 <joanie> and if we have yet another abandoned module, it doesn't look good
 101 16:29:19 <API> joanie, well yes, but as I said
 102 16:29:28 <API> orca users were mentioning that they didn't get it working
 103 16:29:29 <joanie> mgorse: if we get it running and working
 104 16:29:32 <API> but didn't mentioned any app
 105 16:29:41 <joanie> api some mentioned getting it working and using it
 106 16:29:45 <joanie> so you could ask them on the list
 107 16:29:52 <joanie> but as I was saying before
 108 16:30:13 <joanie> if we get it running and working, we can potentially have three multiple maintainers
 109 16:30:20 <joanie> and contributors
 110 16:30:25 <API> I don't understand that
 111 16:30:30 <joanie> understand what?
 112 16:30:33 <API> why getting it working and compiling
 113 16:30:40 <API> would get maintainers?
 114 16:30:46 <joanie> 16:28:42 <mgorse> I feel like whoever fixes something will become the de facto maintainer
 115 16:30:49 <API> if someone is interested on being maintainer
 116 16:31:00 <API> why don't start fixing the compiling and running problem?
 117 16:31:13 <joanie> you mean just like I said?
 118 16:31:23 <joanie> 16:29:29 <@joanie> mgorse: if we get it running and working
 119 16:31:33 <joanie> and note the "potentially" later on
 120 16:32:00 <joanie> my point is that I don't think we're at the stage where who will maintain it is a blocker or issue
 121 16:32:21 <joanie> let's get it working and then cross the next bridge of maintaining the damn thing
 122 16:32:30 <API> ok
 123 16:33:36 <API> so, do we have any conclusion for this point?
 124 16:33:47 <API> because I guess that we are in the same situation
 125 16:34:06 <API> "jaw is not working, there isn't people available to solve it"
 126 16:34:36 <joanie> #info Joanie will, as her spare time permits, try to get it building. She hopes Mike can help out too.
 127 16:34:57 <joanie> done
 128 16:36:10 <API> ok, so moving to next topic?
 129 16:36:13 <API> anything else here?
 130 16:38:03 <API> ....
 131 16:38:08 <API> 2 minutes no answer
 132 16:38:09 <API> moving
 133 16:38:14 <API> #topic Python 3 (Are we there yet?)
 134 16:38:17 <API> joanie, jhernandez ?
 135 16:38:40 <joanie> #info Joanie filed bugs for the Accerciser Python 3 issues she found
 136 16:38:49 <joanie> #info Javi just returned from vacation
 137 16:38:50 <joanie> (done)
 138 16:40:32 <API> jhernandez, something to add here?
 139 16:40:49 <jhernandez> API: not from my side
 140 16:40:58 <API> ok, so lets move then
 141 16:41:09 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates
 142 16:41:11 <jhernandez> I'll try to review these and other pending patches this week
 143 16:41:18 <joanie> thanks jhernandez
 144 16:41:22 <API> from my side there is nothing new on GNOME 3.8 updates
 145 16:41:25 <API> anyway...
 146 16:41:47 <API> #info last week we didn't have too many people on the meeting, but we had a long update
 147 16:42:02 <API> #info about GNOME 3.8 in relation with webkit2, please read it
 148 16:42:16 <joanie> I've not posted the minutes yet sorry
 149 16:42:39 <API> no problem
 150 16:42:42 <API> as soon as they are
 151 16:42:47 <API> and no problem because
 152 16:43:01 <API> #info I added myself some actions related with that, still pending to be done
 153 16:43:20 <API> #info in the same way, Benjamin Otte announced some changes on gtk
 154 16:43:31 <API> #info related to not expose widgets not visible
 155 16:43:39 <API> #info he and Mike Gorse are working on that
 156 16:44:04 <API> #info he sent a mail to gtk-devel announcing just in case, I sent a mail adding some info and asking some questions
 157 16:44:14 <API> #info eventually, it would be good to do the same for clutter
 158 16:44:17 <API> (done)
 159 16:44:27 <API> anyother with GNOME 3.8 updates?
 160 16:44:49 <mgorse> #info mgorse has been struggling to find the memory leaks in pygobject but doesn't understand the code very well
 161 16:44:50 <mgorse> done
 162 16:45:12 <mgorse> (looks like there are a bunch of them, going by the output of running the tests with valgrind)
 163 16:45:24 <joanie> #info Seems we are not getting keyboard events from gnome-control-center
 164 16:45:49 <joanie> #info I don't know if it's a clutter-gtk thing or what
 165 16:46:46 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691468
 166 16:46:47 <tota11y> 04Bug 691468: normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, UNCONFIRMED, No accessible key events
 167 16:47:16 <joanie> (done)
 168 16:47:40 <API> ok
 169 16:48:04 <API> so lets move
 170 16:48:14 <API> #topic W3C updates
 171 16:48:30 <API> #info Joseph was not present at the meeting, no W3C update
 172 16:48:36 <API> joanie, this is right?
 173 16:48:44 <API> or do you talked with him on IRC?
 174 16:48:44 <joanie> yup
 175 16:48:47 <joanie> nop
 176 16:48:57 <API> last week some stuff were declared as "too much for the meeting"
 177 16:48:58 <API> ok
 178 16:49:01 <API> so lets move
 179 16:49:04 <API> #topic Marketing
 180 16:49:06 <API> jjmarin, ?
 181 16:49:43 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo started an article about a11y in Spanish for GNOME Hispano (Spanish-speaking GNOME association). Mainly a translation of the Linux.com with some minor updates/changes
 182 16:50:36 <jjmarin> and nothing more noticiable AFAIR
 183 16:51:04 <API> well, if you don't have anything else, I guess that nobody else will ;)
 184 16:51:11 <API> so moving?
 185 16:51:15 <jjmarin> ok
 186 16:51:54 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
 187 16:52:07 <API> so, something (short) not scheduled to mention?
 188 16:52:19 <jjmarin> Which is the status of the FoG contracts/projects ?
 189 16:53:04 <joanie> #info Karen needs to approve the draft Bastien wrote for the RFP
 190 16:53:32 <jjmarin> ok, thanks joanie ! ;-)
 191 16:53:42 <jhernandez> don't know if you talked about fosdem, but are you going to attend?
 192 16:54:17 <joanie> Fearless Leader is giving a preso
 193 16:54:57 <jhernandez> ok
 194 16:55:02 <jhernandez> API: see you there
 195 16:55:07 <jhernandez> :]
 196 16:55:25 <API> jhernandez, do you have also a talk there or it is just  because you love fosdem and belgium?
 197 16:55:36 * joanie grins
 198 16:55:50 <joanie> He knows no one in Brussels, surely
 199 16:55:51 <jhernandez> hehe
 200 16:55:53 <joanie> ;)
 201 16:56:07 <jhernandez> my sister lives there
 202 16:56:22 <jhernandez> and from last august, my girlfriend lives there too
 203 16:57:03 <jhernandez> but, i love beers
 204 16:57:05 <jhernandez> :]
 205 16:57:20 <API> ah, ok then ;)
 206 16:57:23 <API> see you there too
 207 16:57:33 <joanie> Which makes Spain a problem
 208 16:58:11 <API> what makes Spain a problem?
 209 16:58:24 <joanie> loving beer
 210 16:58:26 <jhernandez> the beer?
 211 16:58:27 <joanie> ;)
 212 16:58:28 <jhernandez> xDDDD
 213 16:58:28 <API> (we have plenty of stuff making Spain a problem, but just asking about the specific one)
 214 16:58:48 <joanie> Spain is delightful and my favorite Country
 215 16:58:55 <joanie> the beer sucks
 216 16:59:11 <API> well, nobody adding more misc stuff
 217 16:59:17 <API> so lets finish the meeting
 218 16:59:25 <API> hey one minute before official end time
 219 16:59:28 <API> #endmeeting

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