1 16:07:07 <API> #startmeeting 2 16:07:07 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jan 10 16:07:07 2013 CET. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 3 16:07:07 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 4 16:07:50 <API> #topic About meetings starting time, quorum and waiting for people 5 16:08:41 <API> #info In some cases, we didn't have too many people on the meeting 6 16:09:01 <API> #info in those occasions, we were wondering about cancelling the meeting, or just doing a short meeting 7 16:09:22 <API> #info but in most of the cases, we waited like 30 minutes for people 8 16:09:37 <API> #info this happened recently, mostly due Christmas holidays 9 16:10:21 <API> #info last week we did that, we started 30 minutes late, but in the end the meeting was longer that expected and we finished more than 30 minutes late 10 16:10:33 <API> #info and that was not the first time that happened 11 16:11:04 <API> #info taking into account that starting 30 minutes late, and ending 30 minutes late is somewhat silly 12 16:11:44 <API> #info for now on, if there are people when the meeting starts, and someone willing to lead the meeting, we are going to start the meeting at time (or at least, just waiting 5 minutes instead of 30) 13 16:12:15 <API> #info if meeting finish on 10 minutes, that would be ok, people would be free to go out without being 30 minutes wandering at the IRC 14 16:12:16 <API> done 15 16:12:20 <API> questions, doubts? 16 16:12:34 <joanie> makes sense to me 17 16:12:42 <joanie> I think I'll info something additional though 18 16:13:18 <joanie> #info If we do not have enough people for a quorum, we will discuss but not make binding decisions at the meeting in question. 19 16:13:26 <joanie> (done) 20 16:14:51 <API> ok, then lets move 21 16:15:01 <API> #topic JAW Update (Sorta) 22 16:15:08 <API> well I don't have anything new here 23 16:15:15 <joanie> I sorta do 24 16:15:30 <API> your turn then 25 16:15:45 <joanie> #info At the end of last week, Joanie did a little bit of investigation on making JAW build 26 16:16:06 <joanie> #info It was a slow process of make a change, try again, google, read docs, rinse and repeat 27 16:16:52 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks that given the lack of response from everyone else, perhaps she and Mike and Piñeiro and *maybe* Javier Jardon can get this problem solved 28 16:17:27 <joanie> #info Joanie mentions Javier because he has autotools skills (she thinks) 29 16:17:58 <joanie> #info Once the blessed thing builds, then we can start debugging and get things re-working. 30 16:18:16 <joanie> #info Or make a more educated judgment that it's not worth the effort 31 16:18:19 <joanie> done 32 16:18:21 <joanie> thoughts? 33 16:18:25 <mgorse> I'm not seeing the build error on my box, fwiw 34 16:18:41 <joanie> mgorse: really? 35 16:18:51 <joanie> what version of gnome, autotools, etc.? 36 16:19:12 <mgorse> GNOME 3.6, automake 1.12, autoconf 2.69... I'll try with jhbuild 37 16:19:28 <joanie> mgorse: I tried with those same things 38 16:19:35 <joanie> though not sure about the autoconf version 39 16:19:38 * joanie looks 40 16:19:56 <joanie> yup 2.69 41 16:20:34 <mgorse> I just tried in my jhbuild environment, and I do get an error there 42 16:20:40 <joanie> anyhoo.... if you and others will help me sort this out, I'm willing to here-and-there try to solve it 43 16:20:44 <joanie> yay for errors! 44 16:21:10 <joanie> I can't focus on or prioritize this myself. But clearly neither can Oracle ;) 45 16:21:23 <joanie> and my money is on us over Oracle any day of the week. 46 16:21:26 <mgorse> actually, I thin kit's warnings that jhbuild is treating as errors 47 16:22:01 <joanie> API what do you think about us tackling this? 48 16:22:09 <joanie> if we don't spend a bunch of time on it 49 16:22:12 <joanie> ? 50 16:22:21 <API> don't understand last question 51 16:22:45 <joanie> API one of the previous discussion questions was: Do we even care about Swing apps? 52 16:22:46 <API> I agree that I see really unlikely Oracle taking a look to this 53 16:23:09 <joanie> if we definitively don't care about Swing apps, we can declare it abandonware 54 16:23:16 <joanie> if we do care (because our users do) 55 16:23:22 <joanie> then we need someone to do something 56 16:23:33 <API> well, first step would see 57 16:23:40 <API> which "popular" apps are using Swing 58 16:23:57 <API> taking a look to orca list, some people were asking about Jaw 59 16:24:04 * joanie nods 60 16:24:08 <API> but I don't remember any specifc application mentioned 61 16:24:09 <mgorse> Does anyone here know Java already? 62 16:24:17 <joanie> not I 63 16:24:25 <joanie> but on a related note.... 64 16:24:48 <API> last time I used Java when when I was a student 65 16:24:56 <joanie> During my presentation at fossa, I learned that apparently european universities are big on using java as their course language 66 16:25:00 <joanie> see! :) 67 16:25:15 * API well, also a brief look when I was looking at Android, but just a look not really developing 68 16:25:16 <joanie> and I've since heard that from Univ of Connecticut Hartford 69 16:25:17 * jhernandez timidly rises his hand 70 16:25:31 <joanie> jhernandez: You don't have time 71 16:25:35 <jhernandez> at all 72 16:25:36 <jhernandez> xDDD 73 16:25:38 <API> joanie, in fact, I think that the recent trend is start to use Java from the beginning 74 16:25:54 <joanie> my CS course work was 20+ years ago 75 16:25:56 <API> when I was a student, it was at the 3rd course etc 76 16:26:10 <joanie> we did Lisp, scheme, and really ancient c++ 77 16:26:26 <joanie> oh and pascal 78 16:26:28 <joanie> ;) 79 16:26:30 <API> anyway, jhernandez do you want to mention something? 80 16:26:38 <jhernandez> nope 81 16:26:56 <joanie> api I think he was raising it because he knows java 82 16:27:01 <jhernandez> I mentioned that i know java 83 16:27:02 <API> ah ok 84 16:27:12 <joanie> but between cloud4all, life, and Accerciser still not being Python 3 ready.... 85 16:27:13 <jhernandez> but without more intentions 86 16:27:14 <API> so volunteering to take a look to jaw ;) 87 16:27:26 <joanie> I would rather jhernandez focus on his module first 88 16:27:26 <API> I knew that 89 16:27:34 <joanie> and if time later permits 90 16:27:37 <API> makes sense 91 16:27:39 <joanie> then hell yeah, please help with JAW 92 16:27:48 <jhernandez> anyway, I know people with java skills an could be interested in 93 16:28:21 <API> anyway, as I said before, we don't know if that is relevant 94 16:28:33 <API> as I said, no application was mentioned on that orca list 95 16:28:42 <mgorse> I feel like whoever fixes something will become the de facto maintainer 96 16:28:43 <API> so what about first decide if jaw is important or not? 97 16:28:50 <API> mgorse, yes true 98 16:28:59 <joanie> Part of it is relevant in so far as Orca users have raised it and mentioned trying it 99 16:29:10 <API> mgorse, anyone willing to do some work on jaw will receive it with a pretty lace 100 16:29:13 <joanie> and if we have yet another abandoned module, it doesn't look good 101 16:29:19 <API> joanie, well yes, but as I said 102 16:29:28 <API> orca users were mentioning that they didn't get it working 103 16:29:29 <joanie> mgorse: if we get it running and working 104 16:29:32 <API> but didn't mentioned any app 105 16:29:41 <joanie> api some mentioned getting it working and using it 106 16:29:45 <joanie> so you could ask them on the list 107 16:29:52 <joanie> but as I was saying before 108 16:30:13 <joanie> if we get it running and working, we can potentially have three multiple maintainers 109 16:30:20 <joanie> and contributors 110 16:30:25 <API> I don't understand that 111 16:30:30 <joanie> understand what? 112 16:30:33 <API> why getting it working and compiling 113 16:30:40 <API> would get maintainers? 114 16:30:46 <joanie> 16:28:42 <mgorse> I feel like whoever fixes something will become the de facto maintainer 115 16:30:49 <API> if someone is interested on being maintainer 116 16:31:00 <API> why don't start fixing the compiling and running problem? 117 16:31:13 <joanie> you mean just like I said? 118 16:31:23 <joanie> 16:29:29 <@joanie> mgorse: if we get it running and working 119 16:31:33 <joanie> and note the "potentially" later on 120 16:32:00 <joanie> my point is that I don't think we're at the stage where who will maintain it is a blocker or issue 121 16:32:21 <joanie> let's get it working and then cross the next bridge of maintaining the damn thing 122 16:32:30 <API> ok 123 16:33:36 <API> so, do we have any conclusion for this point? 124 16:33:47 <API> because I guess that we are in the same situation 125 16:34:06 <API> "jaw is not working, there isn't people available to solve it" 126 16:34:36 <joanie> #info Joanie will, as her spare time permits, try to get it building. She hopes Mike can help out too. 127 16:34:57 <joanie> done 128 16:36:10 <API> ok, so moving to next topic? 129 16:36:13 <API> anything else here? 130 16:38:03 <API> .... 131 16:38:08 <API> 2 minutes no answer 132 16:38:09 <API> moving 133 16:38:14 <API> #topic Python 3 (Are we there yet?) 134 16:38:17 <API> joanie, jhernandez ? 135 16:38:40 <joanie> #info Joanie filed bugs for the Accerciser Python 3 issues she found 136 16:38:49 <joanie> #info Javi just returned from vacation 137 16:38:50 <joanie> (done) 138 16:40:32 <API> jhernandez, something to add here? 139 16:40:49 <jhernandez> API: not from my side 140 16:40:58 <API> ok, so lets move then 141 16:41:09 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates 142 16:41:11 <jhernandez> I'll try to review these and other pending patches this week 143 16:41:18 <joanie> thanks jhernandez 144 16:41:22 <API> from my side there is nothing new on GNOME 3.8 updates 145 16:41:25 <API> anyway... 146 16:41:47 <API> #info last week we didn't have too many people on the meeting, but we had a long update 147 16:42:02 <API> #info about GNOME 3.8 in relation with webkit2, please read it 148 16:42:16 <joanie> I've not posted the minutes yet sorry 149 16:42:39 <API> no problem 150 16:42:42 <API> as soon as they are 151 16:42:47 <API> and no problem because 152 16:43:01 <API> #info I added myself some actions related with that, still pending to be done 153 16:43:20 <API> #info in the same way, Benjamin Otte announced some changes on gtk 154 16:43:31 <API> #info related to not expose widgets not visible 155 16:43:39 <API> #info he and Mike Gorse are working on that 156 16:44:04 <API> #info he sent a mail to gtk-devel announcing just in case, I sent a mail adding some info and asking some questions 157 16:44:14 <API> #info eventually, it would be good to do the same for clutter 158 16:44:17 <API> (done) 159 16:44:27 <API> anyother with GNOME 3.8 updates? 160 16:44:49 <mgorse> #info mgorse has been struggling to find the memory leaks in pygobject but doesn't understand the code very well 161 16:44:50 <mgorse> done 162 16:45:12 <mgorse> (looks like there are a bunch of them, going by the output of running the tests with valgrind) 163 16:45:24 <joanie> #info Seems we are not getting keyboard events from gnome-control-center 164 16:45:49 <joanie> #info I don't know if it's a clutter-gtk thing or what 165 16:46:46 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691468 166 16:46:47 <tota11y> 04Bug 691468: normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, UNCONFIRMED, No accessible key events 167 16:47:16 <joanie> (done) 168 16:47:40 <API> ok 169 16:48:04 <API> so lets move 170 16:48:14 <API> #topic W3C updates 171 16:48:30 <API> #info Joseph was not present at the meeting, no W3C update 172 16:48:36 <API> joanie, this is right? 173 16:48:44 <API> or do you talked with him on IRC? 174 16:48:44 <joanie> yup 175 16:48:47 <joanie> nop 176 16:48:57 <API> last week some stuff were declared as "too much for the meeting" 177 16:48:58 <API> ok 178 16:49:01 <API> so lets move 179 16:49:04 <API> #topic Marketing 180 16:49:06 <API> jjmarin, ? 181 16:49:43 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo started an article about a11y in Spanish for GNOME Hispano (Spanish-speaking GNOME association). Mainly a translation of the Linux.com with some minor updates/changes 182 16:50:36 <jjmarin> and nothing more noticiable AFAIR 183 16:51:04 <API> well, if you don't have anything else, I guess that nobody else will ;) 184 16:51:11 <API> so moving? 185 16:51:15 <jjmarin> ok 186 16:51:54 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time 187 16:52:07 <API> so, something (short) not scheduled to mention? 188 16:52:19 <jjmarin> Which is the status of the FoG contracts/projects ? 189 16:53:04 <joanie> #info Karen needs to approve the draft Bastien wrote for the RFP 190 16:53:32 <jjmarin> ok, thanks joanie ! ;-) 191 16:53:42 <jhernandez> don't know if you talked about fosdem, but are you going to attend? 192 16:54:17 <joanie> Fearless Leader is giving a preso 193 16:54:57 <jhernandez> ok 194 16:55:02 <jhernandez> API: see you there 195 16:55:07 <jhernandez> :] 196 16:55:25 <API> jhernandez, do you have also a talk there or it is just because you love fosdem and belgium? 197 16:55:36 * joanie grins 198 16:55:50 <joanie> He knows no one in Brussels, surely 199 16:55:51 <jhernandez> hehe 200 16:55:53 <joanie> ;) 201 16:56:07 <jhernandez> my sister lives there 202 16:56:22 <jhernandez> and from last august, my girlfriend lives there too 203 16:57:03 <jhernandez> but, i love beers 204 16:57:05 <jhernandez> :] 205 16:57:20 <API> ah, ok then ;) 206 16:57:23 <API> see you there too 207 16:57:33 <joanie> Which makes Spain a problem 208 16:58:11 <API> what makes Spain a problem? 209 16:58:24 <joanie> loving beer 210 16:58:26 <jhernandez> the beer? 211 16:58:27 <joanie> ;) 212 16:58:28 <jhernandez> xDDDD 213 16:58:28 <API> (we have plenty of stuff making Spain a problem, but just asking about the specific one) 214 16:58:48 <joanie> Spain is delightful and my favorite Country 215 16:58:55 <joanie> the beer sucks 216 16:59:11 <API> well, nobody adding more misc stuff 217 16:59:17 <API> so lets finish the meeting 218 16:59:25 <API> hey one minute before official end time 219 16:59:28 <API> #endmeeting
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