16:07:07 <API> #startmeeting
16:07:07 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Jan 10 16:07:07 2013 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:07:07 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:07:50 <API> #topic About meetings starting time, quorum and waiting for people
16:08:41 <API> #info In some cases, we didn't have too many people on the meeting
16:09:01 <API> #info in those occasions, we were wondering about cancelling the meeting, or just doing a short meeting
16:09:22 <API> #info but in most of the cases, we waited like 30 minutes for people
16:09:37 <API> #info this happened recently, mostly due Christmas holidays
16:10:21 <API> #info last week we did that, we started 30 minutes late, but in the end the meeting was longer that expected and we finished more than 30 minutes late
16:10:33 <API> #info and that was not the first time that happened
16:11:04 <API> #info taking into account that starting 30 minutes late, and ending 30 minutes late is somewhat silly
16:11:44 <API> #info for now on, if there are people when the meeting starts, and someone willing to lead the meeting, we are going to start the meeting at time (or at least, just waiting 5 minutes instead of 30)
16:12:15 <API> #info if meeting finish on 10 minutes, that would be ok, people would be free to go out without being 30 minutes wandering at the IRC
16:12:16 <API> done
16:12:20 <API> questions, doubts?
16:12:34 <joanie> makes sense to me
16:12:42 <joanie> I think I'll info something additional though
16:13:18 <joanie> #info If we do not have enough people for a quorum, we will discuss but not make binding decisions at the meeting in question.
16:13:26 <joanie> (done)
16:14:51 <API> ok, then lets move
16:15:01 <API> #topic JAW Update (Sorta)
16:15:08 <API> well I don't have anything new here
16:15:15 <joanie> I sorta do
16:15:30 <API> your turn then
16:15:45 <joanie> #info At the end of last week, Joanie did a little bit of investigation on making JAW build
16:16:06 <joanie> #info It was a slow process of make a change, try again, google, read docs, rinse and repeat
16:16:52 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks that given the lack of response from everyone else, perhaps she and Mike and Piñeiro and *maybe* Javier Jardon can get this problem solved
16:17:27 <joanie> #info Joanie mentions Javier because he has autotools skills (she thinks)
16:17:58 <joanie> #info Once the blessed thing builds, then we can start debugging and get things re-working.
16:18:16 <joanie> #info Or make a more educated judgment that it's not worth the effort
16:18:19 <joanie> done
16:18:21 <joanie> thoughts?
16:18:25 <mgorse> I'm not seeing the build error on my box, fwiw
16:18:41 <joanie> mgorse: really?
16:18:51 <joanie> what version of gnome, autotools, etc.?
16:19:12 <mgorse> GNOME 3.6, automake 1.12, autoconf 2.69... I'll try with jhbuild
16:19:28 <joanie> mgorse: I tried with those same things
16:19:35 <joanie> though not sure about the autoconf version
16:19:38 * joanie looks
16:19:56 <joanie> yup 2.69
16:20:34 <mgorse> I just tried in my jhbuild environment, and I do get an error there
16:20:40 <joanie> anyhoo.... if you and others will help me sort this out, I'm willing to here-and-there try to solve it
16:20:44 <joanie> yay for errors!
16:21:10 <joanie> I can't focus on or prioritize this myself. But clearly neither can Oracle ;)
16:21:23 <joanie> and my money is on us over Oracle any day of the week.
16:21:26 <mgorse> actually, I thin kit's warnings that jhbuild is treating as errors
16:22:01 <joanie> API what do you think about us tackling this?
16:22:09 <joanie> if we don't spend a bunch of time on it
16:22:12 <joanie> ?
16:22:21 <API> don't understand last question
16:22:45 <joanie> API one of the previous discussion questions was: Do we even care about Swing apps?
16:22:46 <API> I agree that I see really unlikely Oracle taking a look to this
16:23:09 <joanie> if we definitively don't care about Swing apps, we can declare it abandonware
16:23:16 <joanie> if we do care (because our users do)
16:23:22 <joanie> then we need someone to do something
16:23:33 <API> well, first step would see
16:23:40 <API> which "popular" apps are using Swing
16:23:57 <API> taking a look to orca list, some people were asking about Jaw
16:24:04 * joanie nods
16:24:08 <API> but I don't remember any specifc application mentioned
16:24:09 <mgorse> Does anyone here know Java already?
16:24:17 <joanie> not I
16:24:25 <joanie> but on a related note....
16:24:48 <API> last time I used Java when when I was a student
16:24:56 <joanie> During my presentation at fossa, I learned that apparently european universities are big on using java as their course language
16:25:00 <joanie> see! :)
16:25:15 * API well, also a brief look when I was looking at Android, but just a look not really developing
16:25:16 <joanie> and I've since heard that from Univ of Connecticut Hartford
16:25:17 * jhernandez timidly rises his hand
16:25:31 <joanie> jhernandez: You don't have time
16:25:35 <jhernandez> at all
16:25:36 <jhernandez> xDDD
16:25:38 <API> joanie, in fact, I think that the recent trend is start to use Java from the beginning
16:25:54 <joanie> my CS course work was 20+ years ago
16:25:56 <API> when I was a student, it was at the 3rd course etc
16:26:10 <joanie> we did Lisp, scheme, and really ancient c++
16:26:26 <joanie> oh and pascal
16:26:28 <joanie> ;)
16:26:30 <API> anyway, jhernandez do you want to mention something?
16:26:38 <jhernandez> nope
16:26:56 <joanie> api I think he was raising it because he knows java
16:27:01 <jhernandez> I mentioned that i know java
16:27:02 <API> ah ok
16:27:12 <joanie> but between cloud4all, life, and Accerciser still not being Python 3 ready....
16:27:13 <jhernandez> but without more intentions
16:27:14 <API> so volunteering to take a look to jaw ;)
16:27:26 <joanie> I would rather jhernandez focus on his module first
16:27:26 <API> I knew that
16:27:34 <joanie> and if time later permits
16:27:37 <API> makes sense
16:27:39 <joanie> then hell yeah, please help with JAW
16:27:48 <jhernandez> anyway, I know people with java skills an could be interested in
16:28:21 <API> anyway, as I said before, we don't know if that is relevant
16:28:33 <API> as I said, no application was mentioned on that orca list
16:28:42 <mgorse> I feel like whoever fixes something will become the de facto maintainer
16:28:43 <API> so what about first decide if jaw is important or not?
16:28:50 <API> mgorse, yes true
16:28:59 <joanie> Part of it is relevant in so far as Orca users have raised it and mentioned trying it
16:29:10 <API> mgorse, anyone willing to do some work on jaw will receive it with a pretty lace
16:29:13 <joanie> and if we have yet another abandoned module, it doesn't look good
16:29:19 <API> joanie, well yes, but as I said
16:29:28 <API> orca users were mentioning that they didn't get it working
16:29:29 <joanie> mgorse: if we get it running and working
16:29:32 <API> but didn't mentioned any app
16:29:41 <joanie> api some mentioned getting it working and using it
16:29:45 <joanie> so you could ask them on the list
16:29:52 <joanie> but as I was saying before
16:30:13 <joanie> if we get it running and working, we can potentially have three multiple maintainers
16:30:20 <joanie> and contributors
16:30:25 <API> I don't understand that
16:30:30 <joanie> understand what?
16:30:33 <API> why getting it working and compiling
16:30:40 <API> would get maintainers?
16:30:46 <joanie> 16:28:42 <mgorse> I feel like whoever fixes something will become the de facto maintainer
16:30:49 <API> if someone is interested on being maintainer
16:31:00 <API> why don't start fixing the compiling and running problem?
16:31:13 <joanie> you mean just like I said?
16:31:23 <joanie> 16:29:29 <@joanie> mgorse: if we get it running and working
16:31:33 <joanie> and note the "potentially" later on
16:32:00 <joanie> my point is that I don't think we're at the stage where who will maintain it is a blocker or issue
16:32:21 <joanie> let's get it working and then cross the next bridge of maintaining the damn thing
16:32:30 <API> ok
16:33:36 <API> so, do we have any conclusion for this point?
16:33:47 <API> because I guess that we are in the same situation
16:34:06 <API> "jaw is not working, there isn't people available to solve it"
16:34:36 <joanie> #info Joanie will, as her spare time permits, try to get it building. She hopes Mike can help out too.
16:34:57 <joanie> done
16:36:10 <API> ok, so moving to next topic?
16:36:13 <API> anything else here?
16:38:03 <API> ....
16:38:08 <API> 2 minutes no answer
16:38:09 <API> moving
16:38:14 <API> #topic Python 3 (Are we there yet?)
16:38:17 <API> joanie, jhernandez ?
16:38:40 <joanie> #info Joanie filed bugs for the Accerciser Python 3 issues she found
16:38:49 <joanie> #info Javi just returned from vacation
16:38:50 <joanie> (done)
16:40:32 <API> jhernandez, something to add here?
16:40:49 <jhernandez> API: not from my side
16:40:58 <API> ok, so lets move then
16:41:09 <API> #topic GNOME 3.8 updates
16:41:11 <jhernandez> I'll try to review these and other pending patches this week
16:41:18 <joanie> thanks jhernandez
16:41:22 <API> from my side there is nothing new on GNOME 3.8 updates
16:41:25 <API> anyway...
16:41:47 <API> #info last week we didn't have too many people on the meeting, but we had a long update
16:42:02 <API> #info about GNOME 3.8 in relation with webkit2, please read it
16:42:16 <joanie> I've not posted the minutes yet sorry
16:42:39 <API> no problem
16:42:42 <API> as soon as they are
16:42:47 <API> and no problem because
16:43:01 <API> #info I added myself some actions related with that, still pending to be done
16:43:20 <API> #info in the same way, Benjamin Otte announced some changes on gtk
16:43:31 <API> #info related to not expose widgets not visible
16:43:39 <API> #info he and Mike Gorse are working on that
16:44:04 <API> #info he sent a mail to gtk-devel announcing just in case, I sent a mail adding some info and asking some questions
16:44:14 <API> #info eventually, it would be good to do the same for clutter
16:44:17 <API> (done)
16:44:27 <API> anyother with GNOME 3.8 updates?
16:44:49 <mgorse> #info mgorse has been struggling to find the memory leaks in pygobject but doesn't understand the code very well
16:44:50 <mgorse> done
16:45:12 <mgorse> (looks like there are a bunch of them, going by the output of running the tests with valgrind)
16:45:24 <joanie> #info Seems we are not getting keyboard events from gnome-control-center
16:45:49 <joanie> #info I don't know if it's a clutter-gtk thing or what
16:46:46 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691468
16:46:47 <tota11y> 04Bug 691468: normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, UNCONFIRMED, No accessible key events
16:47:16 <joanie> (done)
16:47:40 <API> ok
16:48:04 <API> so lets move
16:48:14 <API> #topic W3C updates
16:48:30 <API> #info Joseph was not present at the meeting, no W3C update
16:48:36 <API> joanie, this is right?
16:48:44 <API> or do you talked with him on IRC?
16:48:44 <joanie> yup
16:48:47 <joanie> nop
16:48:57 <API> last week some stuff were declared as "too much for the meeting"
16:48:58 <API> ok
16:49:01 <API> so lets move
16:49:04 <API> #topic Marketing
16:49:06 <API> jjmarin, ?
16:49:43 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo started an article about a11y in Spanish for GNOME Hispano (Spanish-speaking GNOME association). Mainly a translation of the Linux.com with some minor updates/changes
16:50:36 <jjmarin> and nothing more noticiable AFAIR
16:51:04 <API> well, if you don't have anything else, I guess that nobody else will ;)
16:51:11 <API> so moving?
16:51:15 <jjmarin> ok
16:51:54 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
16:52:07 <API> so, something (short) not scheduled to mention?
16:52:19 <jjmarin> Which is the status of the FoG contracts/projects ?
16:53:04 <joanie> #info Karen needs to approve the draft Bastien wrote for the RFP
16:53:32 <jjmarin> ok, thanks joanie ! ;-)
16:53:42 <jhernandez> don't know if you talked about fosdem, but are you going to attend?
16:54:17 <joanie> Fearless Leader is giving a preso
16:54:57 <jhernandez> ok
16:55:02 <jhernandez> API: see you there
16:55:07 <jhernandez> :]
16:55:25 <API> jhernandez, do you have also a talk there or it is just  because you love fosdem and belgium?
16:55:36 * joanie grins
16:55:50 <joanie> He knows no one in Brussels, surely
16:55:51 <jhernandez> hehe
16:55:53 <joanie> ;)
16:56:07 <jhernandez> my sister lives there
16:56:22 <jhernandez> and from last august, my girlfriend lives there too
16:57:03 <jhernandez> but, i love beers
16:57:05 <jhernandez> :]
16:57:20 <API> ah, ok then ;)
16:57:23 <API> see you there too
16:57:33 <joanie> Which makes Spain a problem
16:58:11 <API> what makes Spain a problem?
16:58:24 <joanie> loving beer
16:58:26 <jhernandez> the beer?
16:58:27 <joanie> ;)
16:58:28 <jhernandez> xDDDD
16:58:28 <API> (we have plenty of stuff making Spain a problem, but just asking about the specific one)
16:58:48 <joanie> Spain is delightful and my favorite Country
16:58:55 <joanie> the beer sucks
16:59:11 <API> well, nobody adding more misc stuff
16:59:17 <API> so lets finish the meeting
16:59:25 <API> hey one minute before official end time
16:59:28 <API> #endmeeting