1 16:06:21 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:06:21 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Oct 25 16:06:21 2012 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:06:21 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:06:41 * API realizes that today we have a light agenda
   5 16:06:49 <API> #topic GNOME 3.6.2 and/or 3.8 updates
   6 16:07:06 <API> #info API was working on a gnome-shell dash accessibility support regression
   7 16:07:22 <API> #info patch provided, waiting for review
   8 16:07:58 <API> #info that was a 3.6.0 to 3.6.1 regression, hopefully will be fixed for 3.6.2
   9 16:08:09 <API> nothing to add to 3.8 or 3.6.1 (AFAIR)
  10 16:08:10 <API> otherS?
  11 16:09:00 <mgorse> #info a Debian developer filed bug 686667, which mgorse will need to look at and fix for 3.6.2
  12 16:09:00 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686667 normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, closes a shared libdbus connection
  13 16:09:47 <joanie> #info Orca has been surprisingly 3.6.x regression free (so far, knock on wood).
  14 16:10:28 <joanie> #info Accerciser has been giving Joanie problems however. She has not yet had time to look into them.
  15 16:10:28 <clown> #info Joseph is trying out Fedora 18 alpha, and updating the system periodically.
  16 16:10:36 <joanie> yay f18! :)
  17 16:10:40 <joanie> that's what I use.
  18 16:11:02 <clown> #info Joseph is still seeing that pyatspi2 is stuck at 2.2.25 (need to check that version number).
  19 16:11:10 <joanie> #info the WebKitGtk a11y crasher fixes made it in to the most recent stable release.
  20 16:11:55 * clown looking up the version number...
  21 16:12:31 * joanie remembered another issue
  22 16:13:12 <joanie> #info Epiphany chat is not accessible due to a bug in WebKitGtk. Joanie does not believe it to be a regression per se in WebKit, but she is not positive.
  23 16:13:33 <joanie> ugh
  24 16:13:47 <joanie> #info Empathy chat is not accessible due to a bug in WebKitGtk. Joanie does not believe it to be a regression per se in WebKit, but she is not positive.
  25 16:13:49 <clown> #info Joseph is finding that pyatspi2 is stuck at 2.5.92, even thoug other updates are marked '3.6.1'
  26 16:14:07 <clown> #info pyatspi2 should be at least 2.6
  27 16:14:18 <clown> (done)
  28 16:14:23 <joanie> clown: file a bug against Fedora
  29 16:14:43 <clown> joanie:  okay, where?  and what about other distros?
  30 16:14:44 <joanie> #info Joanie is still wondering what the Release Team will decide about Python 3.
  31 16:14:55 <joanie> clown: other distros do their own thing
  32 16:15:03 <joanie> I just know about Fedora because I use it
  33 16:15:21 <API> ah, true, and as you mentioned, we don't have a python3 item on next agenda, ... probably it would be good to ping them
  34 16:15:22 <clown> and that thing is?  (I just know about Fedora)
  35 16:15:28 <API> about that pyatspi version thing
  36 16:15:37 <joanie> API isn't that already on your agenda?
  37 16:15:48 <joanie> as I pinged the RT in IRC and then emailed you?
  38 16:15:57 <API> as it seems that it became a constant error, shouldn't someone pinged somebody
  39 16:16:05 <joanie> ?
  40 16:16:06 <API> joanie, let me see last mail aboug that
  41 16:16:25 * clown thinks that two conversations are happening at once.
  42 16:16:46 <joanie> didn't take my dexedrine so I am in full-force-adhd mode
  43 16:16:52 <joanie> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/
  44 16:17:24 <API> joanie, no mail sent to release-team list with respect to python3
  45 16:17:38 <API> so sorry for not sending a mail as soon as you sent me that mail
  46 16:17:44 <joanie> API I emailed you privately and pinged in IRC
  47 16:17:46 <joanie> ah
  48 16:18:00 <joanie> is there an agenda yet?
  49 16:18:02 <API> yes, I read that private mail, but I didn't react properly
  50 16:18:07 <joanie> not saying that
  51 16:18:15 <joanie> you don't need to react until it's NOT on the agenda
  52 16:18:16 <API> at this moment there is just a list of possible topics
  53 16:18:20 <joanie> as Matthias said it would be
  54 16:18:25 <API> but usually possible topics became agenda
  55 16:18:41 <joanie> ok, could you please officially ask about it then?
  56 16:18:57 <API> well, in that case matthias probably will raise the topic at the meeting but he didn't send any mail
  57 16:19:00 <joanie> as I keep saying, I don't care what the decision is as much as I care about there being a decision
  58 16:19:12 <joanie> because the two-branch thang is doable, but not fun
  59 16:19:22 <API> this is the last mail mentioning topics for mext meeting:
  60 16:19:24 <API> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2012-October/msg00040.html
  61 16:19:28 <API> s/mext/next
  62 16:19:46 <joanie> yeah that was before my ping in #release-team
  63 16:19:59 <joanie> after the meeting, I'll send you the brief chat from that
  64 16:20:02 <API> #info joanie wonders about what would happen with python3 on 3.8
  65 16:20:04 <joanie> so that you have it in context
  66 16:20:26 <API> #action API will send a mail to release-team ml in order to include this as topic on the next release-team meeting
  67 16:20:35 <joanie> tyvvvvvvm
  68 16:20:36 <joanie> :)
  69 16:21:12 <joanie> #info Javi was asking about it too, so it's not *just* Joanie. :)
  70 16:22:20 <API> well, that info was about this meeting ;)
  71 16:22:26 * jjmarin would like to know if help icons for sticky keys, etc will be in the roadmap for GNOME 3.8, AFAIK it was mentioned in that in the 3.6 cycle there were conversations with the design team
  72 16:22:29 <API> anyway, anything else on this 3.6.2/3.8 topic?
  73 16:23:00 <API> jjmarin, well, as usual the problem with that kind of features is that somebody needs to do that stuff
  74 16:23:15 <API> so we could ping people, like design folks
  75 16:23:32 <API> in order to know if they want to work on that feature or not
  76 16:23:50 <API> and just in case people on the meeting are not aware
  77 16:23:58 <API> jjmarin was talking about bug 647711
  78 16:23:58 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=647711 normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Stickykeys does not have a notification system
  79 16:24:14 <joanie> actually I have a related question:
  80 16:24:22 <API> last three comments are related with "how this should be implemented"
  81 16:24:24 <joanie> do we have someone how is going to do the Orca design?
  82 16:24:34 <joanie> it's clear it should not be me
  83 16:25:11 <API> joanie, now Im lost, what is the relation between sticky keys design and orca design?
  84 16:25:24 <joanie> 16:23:00 <@API> jjmarin, well, as usual the problem with that kind of features is that somebody needs  to do that stuff
  85 16:25:27 <joanie> 16:23:15 <@API> so we could ping people, like design folks
  86 16:25:35 <API> ah, ok
  87 16:25:42 <joanie> you said that the day I was not at Boston Summit, Matthias asked
  88 16:25:50 <API> well, in that sentence I was just specifically talking about sticky keys one
  89 16:25:54 <API> in the case of Orca
  90 16:26:01 <API> I mentioned that Felipe was working on that
  91 16:26:09 <joanie> aha
  92 16:26:12 <API> so in that case "ping design people" means ping Felipe
  93 16:26:17 <joanie> ok
  94 16:26:31 <API> in the case of sticky keys mean ping Alan, and perhaps Matthias or Mat Brown
  95 16:26:44 <joanie> #action Joanie will ping Felipe about the design for moving Orca's preferences to the control center.
  96 16:26:53 <API> ok
  97 16:26:56 <API> lets add actions
  98 16:27:04 <clown> Note that that sticky keys notification is *not* here:  https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointSeven/Features
  99 16:27:11 <API> someone volunteering to ping Allan about the notification stuff=
 100 16:27:41 <API> clown, well, as usual we came to the problem of "when something new is a feature or just a improvement of current features"
 101 16:27:48 <API> what I mean is that there are small stuff
 102 16:27:53 <clown> API, yeah sure.
 103 16:27:56 <API> that are planned for 3.8
 104 16:28:00 <API> but not included as a new feature
 105 16:28:31 <API> I was assuming that stickykeys notification was just a regression fix
 106 16:28:53 <clown> ok
 107 16:29:04 <API> but probably this is something that we can conclude as soon as we ping people
 108 16:29:12 <API> jjmarin, as you raised the topic
 109 16:29:22 <API> could you ping allan day about that bug for 3.8?
 110 16:29:42 <API> at least to know if there will be someone willing to take a look to that
 111 16:30:04 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo will ping Allan Day about the sticky keys bug
 112 16:30:14 <clown> should be an action.
 113 16:30:28 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will ping Allan Day about the sticky keys bug
 114 16:30:30 <jjmarin> :-)
 115 16:30:32 <clown> :-)
 116 16:30:33 <joanie> :)
 117 16:30:58 <clown> quick! take a picture.  everyone is smiling
 118 16:31:11 <API> |-)
 119 16:31:12 <joanie> API isn't
 120 16:31:17 <joanie> hahahaha
 121 16:31:17 <API> ups, I'm with the closed eyes
 122 16:31:19 <API> rimshot
 123 16:31:21 <API> soo
 124 16:31:25 <clown> what is that?  is API asleep?
 125 16:31:32 <joanie> silly leader is silly
 126 16:31:37 <clown> no need to worry about red-eye.
 127 16:31:42 <joanie> and he never EVER smiles in pictures
 128 16:31:47 <API> anyother thing in this topic?
 129 16:33:26 <API> is the sound ... of the silence
 130 16:33:35 <API> ok, I will assume that no comment
 131 16:33:39 <API> means nothing else
 132 16:33:44 <API> so moving to next topic
 133 16:33:57 <API> #topic Marketing
 134 16:33:59 <API> jjmarin, ?
 135 16:36:10 <jjmarin> #info Well, the little time I spend in checking the accessibility project web page conclude that we have updated information
 136 16:36:27 <API> jjmarin, updated or outdated?
 137 16:36:35 <jjmarin> sorry
 138 16:36:46 <jjmarin> #info Well, the little time I spend in checking the accessibility project web page conclude that we have outdated information
 139 16:37:08 <jjmarin> so, I think it's better start with some cleaning of very old stuff
 140 16:37:24 <API> well, as I said (not remember the day)
 141 16:37:33 <API> one little task while reviewing
 142 16:37:38 <API> is properly classiffy outdated pages
 143 16:37:52 <API> in the sense that if someone is looking for an old gnome2 accessibility page
 144 16:37:59 <API> they could know that it is a gnome2 accessibility page
 145 16:39:26 <jjmarin> we (I think for joanie) put old wikie stuff in a different space https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Documentation/GNOME2
 146 16:39:50 <API> yeah but that was for live.gnome.org
 147 16:40:05 <API> but most people that arrive to #a11y making questions based on outdated documentation
 148 16:40:19 <API> were reading projects.gnome.org
 149 16:40:35 <API> afair, you were also reviewing projects.gnome.org right?
 150 16:40:40 <jjmarin> I'm thinking about put there the Demos and Talks section from the a11y project page
 151 16:41:12 <jjmarin> because it's old GNOME 2 stuff
 152 16:43:02 <jjmarin> Do you agree with this move ?
 153 16:43:14 <joanie> probably
 154 16:43:21 <joanie> a diff would be good
 155 16:43:49 <jjmarin> I know is a baby step form improving this, is just the first one
 156 16:44:36 <jjmarin> what do you mean with a diff ?
 157 16:46:27 <API> joanie, ^
 158 16:46:29 <joanie> to change the project pages you have to checkout the module
 159 16:46:35 <joanie> via git
 160 16:46:54 <joanie> to know if I agree with your proposed change, I would need to see the proposed change
 161 16:47:08 <joanie> therefore I am suggesting making a patch before committing the change
 162 16:47:22 <joanie> so that we can see what you are proposing specifically before you go through with it
 163 16:48:56 <jjmarin> My idea was put this info in https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Documentation/GNOME2
 164 16:49:15 <joanie> and change what in projects?
 165 16:49:25 <joanie> anyway, we are deep diving
 166 16:49:35 <jjmarin> http://projects.gnome.org/accessibility/talks/talks.html
 167 16:49:52 <jjmarin> http://projects.gnome.org/accessibility/screencasts.html
 168 16:50:13 * clown looks
 169 16:50:29 <API> jjmarin, so your idea is totally forgot that underdeveloped section at projects and start to use live.gnome.org?
 170 16:50:33 <jjmarin> The idea is clean what is not going to be useful for GNOME 3 stuff
 171 16:50:41 <API> again that seems as having the same in two different places
 172 16:50:48 <API> in my opinion the two options are:
 173 16:50:54 <API> * complete that section at projects
 174 16:51:11 <API> b) switch to live.gnome.org, removing the one at projects
 175 16:51:39 <API> anyway, I think that all those details are "too much detail" for the meeting
 176 16:51:46 <API> that is basically informative
 177 16:51:52 <jjmarin> ok
 178 16:52:03 <API> so, could we finish that topic here, and talk about documentation in other moment/plac?
 179 16:52:08 <API> s/plac/place
 180 16:52:09 <jjmarin> I think about this just a preliminary work
 181 16:52:16 <jjmarin> so
 182 16:52:19 <API> jjmarin, ok, btw, thank you ;)
 183 16:52:53 <jjmarin> we can think deeply by in the a11y list I think
 184 16:53:11 <API> jjmarin, yes, makes sense, as I can't talk about that on #a11y after the meeting
 185 16:53:30 <API> so, lets move to next topic
 186 16:53:33 <API> #topic Reminder: Q3's
 187 16:53:34 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will start a thread in the a11y list about how to revamp the information about GNOME a11y
 188 16:55:04 <clown> #action Joseph will add to the Q3 a11y report in terms of magnifier work.
 189 16:55:05 <API> #info please remember to fill the Q3 report
 190 16:55:22 * joanie looks guilty and says "yessir"
 191 16:55:24 <joanie> ;)
 192 16:55:26 <clown> API, deadline?
 193 16:55:35 <API> everybody please generalize clown action
 194 16:55:53 <API> not sure, joanie do you know something about the deadline?
 195 16:55:56 <joanie> #action Team members will do their Q3's
 196 16:55:56 <clown> since you and joanie are responsible for summarizing the a11y report.
 197 16:56:01 * joanie looks
 198 16:56:46 <joanie> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/QuarterlyReports/2012/Q3
 199 16:56:49 <joanie> This is a rough draft of the 2012 Q3 report. Please add your teams update at the bottom and remove your name from the list of those needed. Thanks!
 200 16:56:52 <joanie> Due Date: TBA
 201 16:57:10 <clown> okay, I'll have it done by then!
 202 16:57:13 <joanie> :)
 203 16:57:15 <joanie> thank you
 204 16:57:42 <API> so, as I think that we don't need too much here
 205 16:57:46 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 206 16:58:03 <API> has someone something (short) to add not scheduled at agenda?
 207 17:00:01 <jjmarin> what about the projects funded with the a11y campaing ?
 208 17:00:21 <joanie> We are waiting to hear back from Bastien
 209 17:00:30 <jjmarin> ok
 210 17:02:20 <jjmarin> nobody else wants to play in the miscellaneous time :-)
 211 17:03:12 <API> we had our little misc-foolish time before
 212 17:03:20 <API> about photos and eyes open/closed
 213 17:04:43 <jjmarin> true, you can open your eyes now, no more pics for today ;-)
 214 17:04:48 <joanie> heh
 215 17:04:51 <clown> *flash*
 216 17:04:56 * joanie winces
 217 17:05:08 <API> 0-|
 218 17:05:15 <joanie> cyclops
 219 17:05:33 <API> although that was more like polyphemus photo
 220 17:05:37 <API> so having said so
 221 17:05:42 <API> closing the meeting
 222 17:05:47 <API> thanks everybody
 223 17:05:49 <API> #endmeeting