1 16:35:25 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:35:25 <API> hmm, it seems that the bot doesn't work ;)
   3 16:35:25 <API> anyway
   4 16:35:25 <API> #topic Magnification discussion
   5 16:35:25 <clown> tota11y:  what's up?
   6 16:35:25 <API> #info people at the meeting has a brief discussion about magnification, after API experience on KDE Sprint
   7 16:35:25 <API> #info API suggested a kind of "high level" guide, in order to have a similar experience on every magnifier
   8 16:35:25 <API> #info specifically about focus tracking
   9 16:35:25 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Oct  4 16:35:25 2012 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
  10 16:35:25 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
  11 16:35:25 <tota11y> clown: Error: "what's" is not a valid command.
  12 16:35:25 <API> clown, although probably that already exist
  13 16:35:25 <API> clown, what are you using to know what do you want to add to the focus tracking at gnome-shell?
  14 16:35:25 <API> just common sense?
  15 16:35:25 <API> comments from users?
  16 16:35:35 <clown> API, mostl duplicating what Orca did.  Way back when, WIll Walker advised me: "let orca handle the focus tracking.  It does what users want."
  17 16:35:51 <clown> hey tota11y woke up!
  18 16:36:22 <API> and suddenly
  19 16:36:22 * API shrugs
  20 16:37:11 <API> but afaik, that pyatspi2 is just a subset of what orca did
  21 16:37:12 <clown> and, the default focus tracking scenario in Orca was: "push" tracking, completely decoupled from the mouse.
  22 16:37:12 <API> right?
  23 16:37:40 <clown> afaik, magFocusTracker.py in pyatspi2 is exaclty what orca did.  The only thing missing is the connection to user preferences.
  24 16:38:38 <API> clown, ok, we could ask joanie later
  25 16:38:49 <clown> actually, I don't recall if orca ever linked focus tracking and mouse tracking — it's been a while since I've seen that user preferences dialog (that no longer exists).
  26 16:39:37 <API> ok,
  27 16:39:53 <clown> what I mean:  there used to be a "Magnifier" tab in Orca's preferences dialog.
  28 16:40:11 <API> yes I know
  29 16:40:22 <API> for that reason some people still think that Orca is a magnifier
  30 16:40:46 <API> anyway, lets keep the feeling of a meeting
  31 16:40:57 <API> clown, something to add on the magnifier discussion?
  32 16:41:26 <clown> shall I info some of the stuff I said above about focus and/or mouse tracking?
  33 16:41:42 <API> clown, ok, makes sense
  34 16:41:45 <API> thanks
  35 16:41:51 <clown> hang on...
  36 16:42:21 <clown> #info With respect to focus tracking and interactions with the mouse, Joseph noted:
  37 16:43:01 <clown> #info 1. Currently, the setting is that focus and mouse tracking are decoupled and independent.
  38 16:43:31 <clown> #info 2.  Some magnifiers provide the option to link them together such that the mouse pointer is moved to the focussed item as focus changes.
  39 16:43:57 <clown> #info 3. A third option is to decouple them, and to stop tracking mouse movements when focus tracking is on.
  40 16:44:39 <clown> #info We should explore adding these options as preferences after focus tracking is implemented in gnome-shell.
  41 16:45:09 <clown> Anything else to add on this?  If not, I have other information about the focus tracking work.
  42 16:45:23 <jjmarin> not for me
  43 16:45:25 <API> I think that this is enough for the meeting
  44 16:45:47 <API> but as I suggested, it would be good to have something common
  45 16:46:02 <API> or we can just let KDE peole their as they want ;)
  46 16:46:10 <API> anyway, for the sake of meeting
  47 16:46:25 <API> #topic GNOME 3.6: Code Freeze is here. Accessibility is AlwaysOn(tm). Anything critical?
  48 16:46:31 <API> #info aka 3.6.1 is coming
  49 16:46:46 <API> #info Some bugs at the login screen and the lock screen were detected
  50 16:46:53 <API> #info the more relevant related with passwords
  51 16:47:10 <API> #info working on that, as probably they could deserver a code freeze for 3.6.1
  52 16:47:34 <API> clown, anything new about the packaging of that focus tracking script?
  53 16:47:39 <clown> #info Joseph noticed that the live ISOs for GNOME 3.6 are using a slightly older version of pyatspi2 (2.5.92).
  54 16:47:55 <clown> #info they should have used 2.60
  55 16:48:27 <clown> #info the effect is that the focus tracking script is in a different location depending on the version.
  56 16:48:51 <clown> but, they should have used 2.60, since that's the one for gnome 3.6
  57 16:49:37 <clown> any idea if 3,6.1 will use pyastspi2  2.60?
  58 16:49:50 <API> hmm, it should use 2.60
  59 16:50:01 <API> in fact as you said 3.6 should had
  60 16:50:20 <clown> yup
  61 16:50:55 <API> clown, so what was the location used for pyatspi2 2.60?
  62 16:51:31 <clown> my client won't let me type slashes...
  63 16:51:41 <clown> so:  slash-usr-slash-bin
  64 16:51:55 <clown> colin walters recommended that.
  65 16:51:59 <API> ok
  66 16:52:14 <API> so, anything else on this point?
  67 16:52:29 <clown> not from me.
  68 16:52:40 <API> ok
  69 16:52:45 <API> #topic marketing
  70 16:52:46 <API> jjmarin, ?
  71 16:53:03 <jjmarin> hi, not to much to say, anyway
  72 16:54:05 <API> jjmarin, so nothing?
  73 16:54:08 <API> moving ?
  74 16:54:08 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo want to revamps the accessibility project page. It means to update some documents. Juanjo will work in a report about the current status of these documents and
  75 16:54:31 <jjmarin> #info some posible ways to update
  76 16:54:35 <jjmarin> done !
  77 16:54:37 <jjmarin> :-)
  78 16:55:09 <API> jjmarin, ok thanks
  79 16:55:10 <API> so
  80 16:55:17 <API> #miscellaneous time
  81 16:55:29 <API> #info API will be at the Boston Summit this weekend
  82 16:55:51 <API> #info joanie will go first to the grace hopper event, and then she will go also to the Boston Summit
  83 16:55:56 <API> done
  84 16:56:07 <API> anyother one want to use misc time?
  85 16:56:13 <clown> yes.
  86 16:56:29 <clown> #info Joseph made some progress in terms of the freezing problem in the g-s focus tracking.
  87 16:57:03 <API> reentry?
  88 16:57:04 <clown> #info the events are coming thru in a timely manner, regardless of where they come from (inside gnome-shell or some external process).
  89 16:58:07 <clown> #info but, any method call on the accessible taken from the event results in a freeze when the event is from within gnome-shell
  90 16:58:30 <clown> #info for e.g.  accessible.getName().
  91 16:58:36 <API> well, yes, seems a reentry problem ...
  92 16:58:56 <clown> sure, API, but….
  93 16:59:22 <clown> why reentry problem here, but not for the atsp events?
  94 16:59:34 <clown> the events are also dbus calls ultimately.
  95 17:01:05 <API> ok
  96 17:01:28 <API> well, this work is good, a pity that mgorse is not here
  97 17:01:37 <API> anyway, anything else for misc time?
  98 17:01:45 <clown> one final info...
  99 17:01:46 <API> can we close this short-low-attendance meeting?
 100 17:01:50 * API waiting
 101 17:02:01 <jjmarin> yes from my part
 102 17:02:37 <clown> #info Joseph is looking very closely at pyatspi2 and atspi-core to see how python solves the rentrancy problem.  There might be a need for a JSatspi2 library.
 103 17:02:40 <clown> (done)
 104 17:03:05 <API> hmm, so in the end
 105 17:03:22 <API> the idea of using directly the gobject-introspection based bindings
 106 17:03:32 <API> seems that will have some issues
 107 17:03:38 <API> and some wrapping is required?
 108 17:04:50 <clown> that's my current hypothesis.  Ultimately accessible.getName() becomes a gobject call in atspi-core, which is implemented as a d-bus call to the accesible interface for its name property.
 109 17:05:33 <API> clown, ok thanks, lets see what happens
 110 17:05:38 <API> thanks for the investigation
 111 17:05:50 <API> as as it is already the official end-time for the meeting
 112 17:05:51 <clown> you're welcome.
 113 17:05:53 <API> #endmeeting