Attachment '20120920_log.txt'
Download 1 16:12:13 <API> #startmeeting
2 16:12:13 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Sep 20 16:12:13 2012 CET. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
3 16:12:13 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
4 16:12:29 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
5 16:12:31 <API> jjmarin, ?
6 16:14:10 <mgorse> Okay. Sorry for being so late.
7 16:14:19 <API> mgorse, np
8 16:15:11 <jjmarin> #info because there isn't any change in the features for GNOME 3.6, the Release Notes are finished with the correction added in the last meeting
9 16:15:19 <jjmarin> done 1
10 16:15:23 <jjmarin> done !
11 16:15:37 <clown> congrat jjmarin, and thanks for writing those notes.
12 16:16:15 <jjmarin> usual
13 16:16:25 <jjmarin> ;)
14 16:16:44 <API> so ...
15 16:16:53 <API> anything else? moving to next (or previous) topic?
16 16:17:26 <jjmarin> nothing more from my side
17 16:18:01 <API> ok
18 16:18:16 <API> #topic GNOME 3.6: Code Freeze is here. Accessibility is AlwaysOn(tm). Anything critical?
19 16:18:31 <API> #info my action of review pef/memory consumption is still pending
20 16:18:59 <API> #info William Jon and others are doing a leak review of all the stack, several bugs and patches committed
21 16:19:09 <API> #info also some bugs caused, still pending to be solved
22 16:19:10 <API> done
23 16:19:14 <API> mgorse, ?
24 16:19:32 <API> I thinkm that you have more detailed information about all this
25 16:20:00 <mgorse> #info mgorse applied several patches that fixed leaks. Some of those patches caused other problems that should be fixed, but, regardless, hoping that there aren't any new problems.
26 16:20:32 <mgorse> #info also planning to install the interim caret focus tracker into the bin directory; unsure if this constitutes a freeze break.
27 16:20:34 <mgorse> done
28 16:20:57 <joanie> mgorse: did you see but 684434
29 16:21:02 <joanie> mgorse: did you see bug 684434
30 16:21:03 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684434 normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, Segmentation fault when exiting GTK applications in GTK 3.5.18 with an AT client registered.
31 16:21:30 <mgorse> oh, I hadn't seen that
32 16:21:39 <joanie> matthias triaged it
33 16:21:43 <joanie> it's a typo
34 16:21:51 <joanie> but a big deal of a typo
35 16:21:55 <mgorse> #info also, bug 684434 needs to be fixed
36 16:22:06 <clown> matthias has eagle eyes.
37 16:22:49 * mgorse didn't know that atk_bridge_adaptor_cleanup was being called
38 16:23:10 <API> joanie, typo?
39 16:23:18 <API> mgorse, it was added recently
40 16:23:21 <joanie> did you see the bug comment API?
41 16:23:34 <API> it seems that I didn't read the last ones
42 16:23:55 <joanie> for (ls = clients; ls; ls = ls->next)
43 16:23:56 <joanie> g_free (l->data);
44 16:24:07 <API> mgorse, on the bugm Luke mention that happens after a specific commit
45 16:24:13 <clown> why does g_free even work? (What is l?)
46 16:24:15 <mgorse> yeah, that's an easy fix; needs freeze break but I don't see that being a problem
47 16:24:19 <API> that commit was done by William Jon as part of his cleaning effort
48 16:26:10 <mgorse> clown: l is a GList pointer. ls is a GSList pointer (though not sure if there's a good reason for me to be using both in my code). Anyway, I suspec t that it never worked, but atk_bridge_adaptor_cleanup wasn't being called, so the code wasn't being tested
49 16:26:33 <clown> ah — (we need unit tests).
50 16:26:45 <clown> thanks mgorse.
51 16:27:37 <API> well, yes, nobody never uninstalled the module, so yes
52 16:27:40 <API> probably not tested
53 16:27:51 <API> so, any other want to add something to this point?
54 16:28:02 <joanie> i've got just one
55 16:28:19 <joanie> #info Joanie needs to look into bug 684474.
56 16:28:19 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684474 normal, Normal, ---, orca-maint, UNCONFIRMED, screen reader doesn't read on the login screen
57 16:28:39 <joanie> #info It may not be an Orca bug, but she is going to triage it before passing it along.
58 16:28:41 <joanie> (done)
59 16:29:26 <clown> if it matters, gs-mag works from the login screen.
60 16:29:40 <joanie> heh
61 16:29:46 <clown> oh, but, that's because it's part of gnome-shell
62 16:29:56 <joanie> does tracking, etc.?
63 16:29:57 <clown> doesn't really depend on a11y libraries.
64 16:30:01 <joanie> i.e. are you getting events?
65 16:30:39 <clown> good question. How would I start the interim focus tracker from the login screen? Is that even possible?
66 16:31:19 <clown> I suppose I could rebuild gs with the built-in focus tracker (the real one), and see what happens.
67 16:31:38 <joanie> don't spend time on it if you don't need to
68 16:31:45 <joanie> I'll look into it
69 16:32:03 <clown> sure. If I think of anything that can help, I'll let you know, joanie.
70 16:32:07 <joanie> :)
71 16:32:08 <joanie> thanks!
72 16:32:23 <clown> or, if you want me to try something, ask away. (I might say "no").
73 16:32:26 <clown> ;-)
74 16:32:27 <joanie> :)
75 16:33:23 <API> api the evil talking after the silence: anything else?
76 16:33:55 <jjmarin> Not critical, what is going on with the "Enable by Keyboard" option in the a11y menu ? It seems an useless option with the Accessibility Always On, anyway, it doesn't hurt anybody :)
77 16:34:14 <clown> I want to say something about the interim focus tracking, as the last sub-topic, API
78 16:34:49 <API> jjmarin, I still don't know what that feature does
79 16:34:57 <API> activate a11y with a keyboard combination?
80 16:35:17 <clown> is that the onscreen keyboard? Or something else?
81 16:35:56 <API> clown, no, we are talking about a new/moved option at the universal access settings
82 16:36:09 <clown> something else then..
83 16:36:14 <API> at typing, there are a "enable by keyboard" checkbox
84 16:36:17 <API> anyway,
85 16:36:35 <API> #action API will investigate that "Enable by Keyboard" thing
86 16:36:36 <API> so
87 16:36:39 <API> clown, your turn
88 16:37:18 <clown> okay, regarding mgorse's last info about putting the interim focus tracker into bin, here is some background.
89 16:37:57 <clown> #info Bjorn Lie had a problem building a package for openSUSE, and traced it to the interim focus tracker.
90 16:38:02 <clown> #info https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682636#c11
91 16:38:03 <tota11y> 04Bug 682636: normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, Interim focus tracking for gnome-shell magnifier via D-Bus
92 16:38:28 <clown> #info I found a way to fix the specific problem.
93 16:39:13 <clown> #info but that fix may not be legitimate — it's a change ot the makefile such that the focus tracker code's executable bits are on when it's copied to site-packages.
94 16:39:36 <clown> #info mgorse suggested that we really should be using EXTRA_DIST in the makefile for this code.
95 16:40:09 <clown> #info the problem there is the tracker isn't installed anywhere even if you have pyatspi2 installed.
96 16:40:34 <clown> #info which makes it very complicated for an end user to find the tracker and launch it.
97 16:40:52 <clown> #info mgorse's latest suggestion is to install it in /usr/bin.
98 16:41:29 <clown> #info but I'm not sure that's not too heavy handed for a hack interim solution.
99 16:41:41 <clown> done — any questions?
100 16:42:39 <API> not from my side
101 16:43:19 <jjmarin> so you think /usr/bin is not good udea because it is an interim solution ?
102 16:43:42 <mgorse> I'm just wondering if I need to ask permission from the release team to do this--"simple build fixes" are allowed without asking, but I'm not sure if installing something in /usr/bin goes beyond a simple build fix
103 16:44:02 <clown> jjmarin: I'm not totally against it, but isn't is odd to put something like that in a global bin folder? Maybe I"m too cautious.
104 16:44:14 <mgorse> Also, the original code installed it in /usr/lib/python-(version)/site-packages/examples, which isn't really the right place to install it
105 16:45:16 <API> mgorse, I agree with you
106 16:45:23 <jjmarin> I think we are delivering betas in gnome like boxes or clocks, so I don't thing this is a problem unless it has security problems or something
107 16:45:26 <API> I mean that we didn't ask any kind of permission
108 16:45:33 <clown> anyother way to look at it: If the relase team says not to put it in /usr/bin, where can it go so that it's relatively easy for a user to find it and run it? What's plan B?
109 16:45:33 <API> because it was just a test
110 16:45:55 <jjmarin> clown: ok :-)
111 16:46:21 <API> clown, I guess that plan B is a kind of manual
112 16:47:19 <jjmarin> and we want people try it easily
113 16:47:34 <API> jjmarin, well yes
114 16:47:35 <API> but
115 16:47:35 <clown> API, you mean instructions like "clone the pyatspi2 from git, then navigate to the examples folder and run mayFocustracker.py"? Something like that?
116 16:47:45 <API> this is already a plan B
117 16:47:53 <API> we were not in time for a feature
118 16:48:05 <API> and this was just a way to ship this
119 16:48:27 <API> if the concluded that the feature is not ready, we can't just install that on /usr/bin
120 16:48:27 <jjmarin> API: exactly
121 16:48:50 <API> clown, well, yes, something like that (probably more elaborated)
122 16:49:00 <API> I know that it is not really user-friendly
123 16:50:05 <clown> yes, it is hardly user-friendly.
124 16:51:27 <clown> I was hoping that the instructions would be simply, "run '../some/common/directory/magFocusTracker.py', and to put that line in your .bash_profile, if you want it on everytime you log in".
125 16:51:29 <API> I will use again the card "this is already plan B"
126 16:52:30 <API> mgorse, in which directory is installed using EXTRA_DIST?
127 16:52:47 <clown> API, that's the point — it's not installed if its' in EXTRA_DIST.
128 16:52:54 <API> ah ok
129 16:53:10 <clown> you must git the source if you want to see the examples folde.
130 16:53:11 <API> but there isn't any kind of /.../share
131 16:53:14 <API> directory to install
132 16:53:15 <clown> "folder".
133 16:53:21 <API> like documentation or so on?
134 16:53:25 <mgorse> I just labeled it EXTRA_DIST because that is what some other modules do to handle their "examples"
135 16:53:36 <mgorse> but this case may or may not be different
136 16:54:36 <API> well, Im sorry
137 16:54:43 <API> but as I said at the beginning of the meeting
138 16:55:01 <API> I need to go before usual meeting time
139 16:55:03 <API> so about this
140 16:55:17 <API> clown, mgorse could you investigate any other option to ship that stuff?
141 16:55:27 <clown> API, yes.
142 16:55:28 <API> I still don't buy the /usr/bin thing
143 16:55:33 <API> and having said so
144 16:55:36 <API> I must go
145 16:55:42 <clown> understood.
146 16:55:51 <jjmarin> API: bye !
147 16:55:57 <API> if anyother one want to led the meeting ...
148 16:55:59 <API> so bye
149 16:56:17 <joanie> did he not end the meeting
150 16:56:25 <joanie> #endmeeting
151 16:56:29 <joanie> nice
152 16:56:44 <clown> we can't end the meeting? Only the chair?
153 16:56:52 <clown> …has that authority?
154 16:56:59 <joanie> you can add chairs
155 16:57:13 <joanie> I need to look at the bot docs :-/
156 16:57:21 <clown> http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
157 16:57:25 <joanie> thanks
158 16:57:49 * clown doesn't see anything about adding chairs.
159 16:57:58 * clown or tables for that matter.
160 16:58:09 <joanie> there's a command
161 17:00:36 * jjmarin wonders is someone enter in the room names API can do the trick :-)
162 17:00:43 <clown> addchair <channel> <network> <nick>
163 17:01:05 <clown> addchair clown
164 17:01:10 <clown> #addchair clown
165 17:01:18 <joanie> you have to be chair to do that
166 17:01:23 <joanie> so, lemme deal with this
167 17:01:24 <clown> !
168 17:01:40 <joanie> as the bot owner if everyone leaves me alone I should be able to solve it
169 17:01:50 <joanie> (api is pinging me via jabber asking where I am)
170 17:07:15 <joanie> #endmeeting
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