16:06:43 #startmeeting 16:06:43 Meeting started Thu Sep 13 16:06:43 2012 CET. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:06:43 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:06:56 #topic Concluding which project(s) will be proposed for use of the FoG funds. 16:07:07 I see the same people that were here last time, but just in case 16:07:23 #info we talked about that on the last meeting 16:07:51 #info the idea was well accepted by the people at the meeting 16:08:09 #info we mentioned that FoG was the main topic on previous meeting, and this one to the list 16:08:20 #info no feedback 16:08:55 #info should we assume that as a implicit approval from the a11y team, and just write the proposal and send to the board? 16:08:57 done 16:09:17 questions, doubts, suggestions? 16:09:31 #info During the last meeting, Joanie's proposal included two "to be refined" statements. 16:09:38 So I think if anyone has nothing more to say, we can go forward with this proposal 16:09:48 #info Joanie thinks we should either do the refining or remove the refined 16:10:03 #info Joanie also thinks we should identify who will draft these proposals 16:10:16 #info Joanie proposes that Joseph draft the caret and focus tracking one 16:10:23 +1 16:10:26 #info Joanie is willing to draft the Document one 16:10:35 clown: +1 to what? 16:10:47 "Joanie proposes that Joseph draft the caret and focus tracking one" 16:11:01 ysy 16:11:15 I +1 your +1 16:11:20 and -1 my typing skills 16:11:52 ok so regarding your's clown, will you do the refining in the "to be refined" 16:11:55 ? 16:11:59 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=YSY 16:12:35 * joanie worries about urban dictionary 16:12:40 but looks anyway 16:12:40 joanie, my thought was that since the work has started and progressed, that I would modify the original proposal in light of that. 16:12:53 in short, bring the proposal up-to-date. 16:13:02 awesome 16:13:13 what is the deadline? 16:13:23 * clown notes it's a busy time with 3.6 coming out... 16:13:30 and perhaps include explicitly its relevance to and/or plans for use by other things such as the osk? 16:13:40 good point. 16:13:51 as for "busy time", yes: 16:14:24 because of 3.6, because Bastien is a major developer (and the guy who got tasked with this on the Board since Karen is out on maternity leave) 16:14:33 I don't think this is an OMG we need it NOW 16:14:58 it's more of a "Joanie has been poked about this several times and when Bastien pokes next we need proposals" 16:15:03 speaking of which 16:15:07 * joanie info's 16:15:18 * clown action's? 16:15:31 give me an idea of a deadline — even if a very rough estimate. 16:15:35 (not yet) 16:15:38 * joanie returns to infoing 16:15:45 * clown waits 16:16:24 #info It is anticipated that Bastien will be contacting us regarding this as he is the one who received this task that was on Karen Sandler's plate. (Karen is on maternity leave.) 16:16:37 anyway, about busy time, probably it would be good to send a notification to them, something like "a11y team have agreed on a project, writing the details, it will be there eventually" 16:16:46 +1 16:16:52 #info There is a small, unexpected chance that Bastien will reject this idea. 16:16:55 so they know that at least, we didnd't forget that 16:17:07 * joanie stops infoing to action for a sec 16:17:11 to make everyone happy 16:17:25 #action Joanie was already planning to report this back to the Board at the next meeting. 16:17:29 * joanie returns to infoing 16:17:59 #info After the next Board meeting (see previous action) we should have some idea regarding what the "deadline" really is. 16:18:03 (not done) 16:18:35 #info Therefore, it is suggested that we have our ideas fleshed out sufficiently that we can answer Bastien/Board questions should they occur 16:18:54 so… when is the next board meeting? 16:18:56 #info But not necessarily spend significant time on writing them perfectly now. 16:19:15 #info Board meetings are every two weeks -- just now moved to Tuesdays. 16:19:27 #info the next Board meeting is on 18 Sept at 14:00 UTC 16:19:31 now I am done 16:19:32 questions? 16:20:07 btw I had no idea ysy is like teh 16:20:15 it sounds good to me :-) 16:20:21 I have use for teh; not much for ysy 16:20:33 anyhoo, other questions? 16:20:44 thanks jjmarin :) 16:20:53 no questions from my side 16:21:04 clown? 16:21:10 I think that this plan is good and makes sense 16:21:22 sounds like I need to write update the old focus tracker proposal by next Tues, albeit not perfectly. 16:21:49 I will not be taking that to the Board next Tuesday 16:22:02 then my question is: 16:22:05 but IF you have time, it would be something I could use to answer questions or point to 16:22:19 what did you mean by "Therefore, it is suggested that we have our ideas fleshed out sufficiently that we can answer Bastien/Board questions should they occur"? 16:22:39 What I mean is that I will report to the Board what our conclusions are 16:22:52 and Bastien and other board members will no doubt ask questions 16:23:00 ah, okay. you are saying that an update would be useful but not necessary by Tue. 16:23:02 ideally I will have answers 16:23:16 clown: you have the old proposal here: https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/Biddings 16:23:20 if I don't have answers I want to be able to say "I'm not sure, Joseph is working on that, let's ask" 16:23:42 and when Bastien asks Joseph, the answer should not be "oh crap, I dunno" 16:23:43 :) 16:24:21 well, it depends on his question. If he asks, how to solve the problems in the middle east, my answer will be I dunno. 16:24:23 so "fleshed out" means "do whatever you need to do mentally or in writing to be prepared to intelligently respond to questions from the Board in a timely fashion" 16:25:05 in the case of documents it means API and I should examine the current state of Document accessibility, look up relevant bugs about keyboard nav, examine the patches previously provided 16:25:09 etc. 16:25:55 clown: Bastien shall not ask questions about the middle east. ;) But please try to anticipate the questions he might reasonably ask 16:26:03 and please have a reasonable answer 16:26:48 other questions on this topic? 16:27:02 * joanie notes that korn, who never attends meetings, is here 16:27:05 joanie: I know. I exaggerate to make a point: ometimes the questions come from "out in left field", and are something I hadn't anticipated. 16:27:09 * korn Hi gang! 16:27:16 * clown hey korn 16:27:22 clown: you've talked with Bastien before? 16:27:24 :) 16:27:27 * korn When y'all get to "misc items", I have a misc item for you. 16:27:32 ok 16:27:43 korn, as usual, at the end of the meeting 16:27:44 we'll move on in the meantime 16:27:49 not directly, joanie, but during the whole zoom options UI debate on bugzilla. 16:28:00 * joanie nods at clown 16:28:06 so having said, so and as most people agree on this topic 16:28:12 should we move? 16:28:18 +1 16:28:23 * korn Yup API; just hanging (and reading while I also attend a second meeting) until the end of the meeting 16:28:25 still, joanie, I'll think about things, make notes, and try to antipciate "right field" questions. 16:28:26 * API realizes that 30 minutes have passed 16:28:33 * clown wow! 16:28:34 :) 16:28:46 API this was important 16:28:50 and 30 minutes haven't 16:28:53 yes, I know 16:28:56 as we start 5 minutes late 16:29:00 and it's not yet 16:30 16:29:01 ;) 16:29:06 not saying "we need to move because we don't have time" 16:29:06 but we could move on 16:29:17 ok, so lets move then 16:29:23 #topic GNOME 3.6: Code Freeze is Monday. Accessibility is AlwaysOn(tm). Are we ready? 16:29:30 #info Monday 17 is code freeze 16:29:59 #info for the ones not used to that: that means no code change until final release, unless a really important (crashes, etc) appears 16:30:14 #info doing my tests I didn't found anything relevant 16:30:34 #info this Tuesday some people were talking on #gnome-os about leaks related to a11y 16:30:45 #info ie: bug 683317 16:30:46 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683317 normal, Normal, ---, gtk-bugs, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Leak in gtk_widget_accessible_get_description() 16:31:07 #info but after some tests, jon mccan found that there are more leaks in other parts (specifically gtk css support) 16:31:14 #info so a11y will not take the blame 16:31:53 #info other worry mentioned is about performance loss and memory 16:32:00 #info jon mccan was asking for data 16:32:30 #info I mentioned that we made some measures last year, and that we made a lot of work to ensure that without AT listening the system will not be affected 16:32:43 #info were "we" is mostly mgorse (kudos) 16:32:53 definitely kudos. 16:32:55 * joanie +1000's the kudos to mgorse 16:32:57 #info anyway, some people would be "more happy" with more data 16:33:03 mgorse: You are a hero 16:33:03 #info so I will do more tests 16:33:14 thanks for doing those tests API 16:33:29 #info ie: the accessible objects are still created, something that I thought was not happening 16:33:40 #info probably we could change that, but not *now* 16:33:50 btw 16:33:53 #info API will make some more tests, and check if "some data" could be achieved 16:33:54 I have a patch for bug 682209 that I need to commit, to not initialize the cache until it is used, though I haven't reproduced the underlying delay that prompted the bug, and that change won't really fix it; it'll just hide it when a11y isn't in use 16:33:55 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682209 normal, Normal, ---, liyuan, UNCONFIRMED, a11y freezes gucharmap on first click 16:34:11 if the objects are still created, won't that means huge trees are still slow 16:34:23 #info API will be grateful if others do the same: specifically tests all the desktop and see if there are some kind of crash of freeze 16:34:37 that bug is a good example 16:34:52 joanie, mclasen also mentioned Company work in relation to treeviews 16:35:05 but yes, main concern of jon mccan was treeviews 16:35:15 s/crash of freeze/crash or freeze 16:35:38 #info in order to make "user oriented tests" there are some ISOs with the last releases 16:35:40 * API looking 16:36:29 http://napoleon.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/misc/testing/GNOME-3.5.91-LiveUSB.iso 16:36:30 #info liveUSB here: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2012-September/msg00066.html 16:36:34 (done) 16:36:42 was more long that I thought 16:36:53 no worries, this is important too 16:37:04 so, questions, doubts, more comments about this? 16:37:48 I have a couple of questions about other things related to the code freeze. 16:37:54 near and dear to me. 16:38:03 but not about what you info'ed above. 16:38:52 clown: please go on and #info as appropriate 16:39:01 code freeze is monday 16:39:05 it's thursday 16:39:09 thanks. two questions. 16:39:14 * joanie sighs and notes she'll be working this weekend 16:39:43 Apart from mccan, there are any other people who show any concerns about this ? 16:39:47 I made changes to pyatspi2 to the "makefiles" for distributing the interim focus tracker. Will those be folded into the code freeze? 16:40:09 * clown oops. didn't meant to interrupt you jjmarin. 16:40:10 clown: if they are committed by monday 16:40:23 clown: though that is mgorse's module 16:40:27 ah good, joanie. they were committed three days ago. 16:40:38 yeah, I'll create a new release on Monday 16:40:46 thanks mgorse. 16:40:48 clown: code freeze is more about the deadline 16:41:10 i.e. must be committed by freeze or it ain't going into 3.6 without RT approval 16:41:31 and I have had serious things in the past which only impact Orca users not blessed for freeze break 16:41:32 clown, any case, that interim focus tracker is not part of the main library 16:41:47 2nd question: I found a minor bug in the latest zoom options UI. I have a patch. Is there anything special about filing it in bugzilla so it's gets noticed, reviewed, and committed by monday? 16:41:55 I mean that it would not be difficult to ask for a freeze 16:42:08 what's the bug? 16:42:23 really dumb simple: A missing colon. 16:42:42 clown, well, the problem with that is thats a UI thing 16:42:43 not actually a code issue. totally a UI issue. 16:42:45 so it's a ui change and possibly a string freeze 16:42:49 string announcement I mean 16:42:50 and UI freeze was some weeks ago 16:42:59 so you need freeze break request 16:43:11 ugh. 16:43:19 not necessarily ugh 16:43:23 if you get it blessed 16:43:37 you can use the blessing to poke folks to commit 16:43:54 who is the beneficent who blesses? 16:44:17 clown, the R-T team 16:44:24 https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointFive#Schedule 16:44:33 The Freeze: UI Freeze: No UI changes may be made without approval from the release-team and notification to gnome-doc-list@ 16:44:33 you need to ask the freeze break request to the release-team mailing list 16:44:37 * clown notes that the 'ugh' is partly due to the fact that it not only changes the "english", but all the translations. 16:44:54 String Change Announcement Period: All string changes must be announced to both gnome-i18n@ and gnome-doc-list@. 16:45:05 oops 16:45:08 we're in string freeze 16:45:16 String Freeze: no string changes may be made without confirmation from the l10n team (gnome-i18n@) and notification to both the release team and the GDP (gnome-doc-list@). 16:45:39 so I would do as API hinted at: email the RT 16:45:59 cite "every detail matters" :P 16:46:09 no colon is too small :P 16:46:13 ;-) 16:46:23 well, once you see it, it drive you nuts. 16:46:30 clown, more questions? 16:46:53 there are three sliders all with labels like; "Blah", excpet the last one. 16:47:00 like "Blah:" 16:47:06 * clown is easy to drop the colon. 16:47:12 API, no more questions. Thanks. 16:47:16 ok 16:47:18 jjmarin 16:47:22 about your question 16:47:47 the vocal voice was jon mccan, mclasen just mentioned some about other leak (on a cell renderer) 16:47:54 anyway, doing that testing could be good 16:47:57 having said so 16:48:08 more questions/comments for this point? 16:48:11 moving to next one? 16:49:16 so it seems that no more questions 16:49:19 next topic then 16:49:23 #topic Marketing and Fundraising 16:49:25 jjmarin, ? 16:49:42 #info Juanjo has been working in the a11y section for the release notes. 16:50:07 #Info This time the notes are short, but I think we have some good features for the release 16:50:22 you can check in http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.6/ 16:50:31 gnome / 3.6 16:50:50 take a quick look if you want :-) 16:50:54 * clown thanks jjmarin for work on the release notes. 16:51:01 * joanie thanks jjmarin too 16:51:18 having a marketing guy has really been awesome (and extremely helpful) 16:51:28 :-) 16:52:12 if no more questions or praises we can move forward :-P 16:52:38 jjmarin, I just noticed in the brightness, contrast, etc. release notes: two different spellings of "greyscale". Should be consistent. 16:52:45 the other is "grayscale" 16:53:00 heh 16:53:01 I don't know which is preferred... 16:53:03 clown: thanks, I take not 16:53:05 note 16:53:39 so, more questions or praises to jjmaring? 16:53:40 * clown excels in the past few days at niggling details like colons and spelling. 16:53:45 user name and password? 16:53:52 gnome 16:53:54 3.6 16:54:03 ah 16:54:06 sorry I see that now 16:54:07 silly me 16:54:33 jjmarin: nit 16:54:43 s/remarkable better/remarkably better/ 16:55:12 the rest looks good to me 16:55:16 well, I note that notes review is not a a11y meeting task 16:55:20 so.. 16:55:21 I think there is also a type "via refreshable braille" -> via refreshable Braille display 16:55:25 typo 16:55:41 no 16:55:43 #info jjmarin encourage people to review the notes and provide constructive feedback 16:55:45 braille is lowercase 16:55:55 please do not capitalize Braille 16:56:01 ok, thanks 16:56:02 unless you are talking about Louis Braille, the guy 16:56:13 take note 16:56:23 thank you again jjmarin! 16:56:28 obviously yes, Louis was a really refreshable guy 16:56:32 rimshot 16:56:38 eyeroll 16:56:40 :P 16:56:43 so lets move then 16:56:44 :-) 16:56:49 #topic miscellaneous time 16:56:54 please before the jokes kill us 16:57:02 as usual time for (short) not scheduled topic 16:57:04 * korn Izzit my turn now? 16:57:09 * clown notes that Louis had lovely dimples when he simled. 16:57:10 korn, I think that you had something to add? 16:57:19 Yes, thanks API. 16:57:25 * joanie notes that heidi might as well (her NSF grant) 16:57:45 heidi: but korn already jumped in 16:57:51 so we should let him go first 16:57:53 A long time ago, I think I mentioned to this group that we were hoping to contribute work on implementing real-time-text support for Ekiga 16:58:07 no sorries, just unexpected 16:58:23 This was one of (I'd say, the last) AEGIS-funded contribution we were hoping to make. 16:59:12 Long story, but after much testing & difficulties, we've come to the end of the AEGIS project 16:59:33 And we didn't quite finish the work, but we got far enough along to file a bug, and attach a couple of patches to it. 17:00:05 You can find that at Ekiga bug #683919: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683919 17:00:06 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683919 major, Normal, ---, ekiga-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Ekiga support Text over IP 17:00:07 04Bug 683919: major, Normal, ---, ekiga-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Ekiga support Text over IP 17:00:45 So, the question I put before y'all is... Is this something of interest, that perhaps we want to try to take forward (as, alas, I believe Oracle's work here has to be done) 17:01:11 At some point - when there is more time for a longer disucssion - I'm happy to go into detail on what we accomplished, and what work remains, etc. etc. 17:01:33 But quickly... does everyone here know what "real-time-text" is, and why it might be desirable? 17:02:12 I don't — quick description? 17:02:25 well, backing up a sec 17:02:30 this bug has status fixed 17:02:35 were the changes committed? 17:02:43 yeah I noticed that too. 17:02:48 I see that they have been attached 17:02:55 I see no indication in the bug if they have landed 17:02:57 no review of the patches, and their status is "none", not "comitted" 17:02:59 Rather than "IM-style" conversations (like this one), real-time-text is essentially like the old UNIX 'talk' application. 17:03:04 clown: exactly 17:03:18 Character by character echo - text sent as it is typed. 17:03:43 korn: if these patches provide important support, I probably would have your colleague follow traditional procedure with respect to bugzilla 17:04:05 because no one is going to see this "fixed" bug 17:04:07 It is something that a number of folks in the deaf & hard of hearing community want as an alternative to IM. To better replicate and provide an option to that community as VoIP isn't an option. 17:05:10 Joanie: I've been pressing for this to get contributed back to the community for a while. I didn't suggest that it get marked as "fixed", and done different from community practice. I'm not thrilled with that - it happened last night while I was sleeping, and this group's meeting was this morning, so I thought I'd take advantage of that in 'misc time' to let y'all know about this. 17:05:33 so backing up 17:05:43 a) was the patch committed to Ekiga? 17:05:48 * korn My other meeting just ended; making it easier for me to fully participate here. 17:06:06 well, this meeting is now in overtime 17:06:07 No, the patch was not committed. And in our own testing, we found interoperability issues we didn't manage to fix. 17:06:16 so the bug was not fixed 17:06:22 yet it has status fixed 17:06:36 * korn Joanie - perhaps this should become part of a future meeting, with more time for it. 17:06:36 yanjing guo should undo that status 17:06:43 Looking at this: http://git.gnome.org/browse/ekiga. I don't see the commit (confirming what korn said). 17:06:50 well, really, there's nothing to meet about is there? 17:06:55 the bug has the wrong status 17:07:01 it is not an a11y team module 17:07:02 Yeah, looks to me like the developer didn't understand bugzilla procedure and thought that he shouldmark the bug "fixed" once he submitted the patches, and it was now out of his hands 17:07:10 if you want the changes committed 17:07:18 Joanie, leave aside the wrong status. Leave aside the commit question. 17:07:20 the patch will need review (and from what you described) revision 17:07:36 and you will need to convince the ekiga maintainers to include it 17:07:45 is ekiga still an official module btw? 17:07:51 API thoughts on that? 17:07:57 I thought it was no longer core 17:08:08 first, if the patch is not committed the status is wrong 17:08:23 I can change the status, but we could let the developer do that 17:08:26 API korn has instructed us not to do that 17:08:31 17:07:18 Joanie, leave aside the wrong status. Leave aside the commit question. 17:08:38 second, about korn question 17:08:50 The issues / questions I'm trying to raise is/are: ... 17:09:08 yes, that feature is good for ekiga, although I don't follow the longer discussion thing 17:09:15 1: Is real-time-text support for the deaf something of interest to this community 17:09:25 (please add a '?' to the end of that last bit) 17:10:00 2. Is the work that we've done - partway - an interesting basis from which to continue that (assuming answer to #1 is 'yes')? 17:10:07 3. If so... how might we proceed? 17:10:10 17:10:20 1. yes 17:10:23 2. I dunno 17:10:32 I'm not suggesting that we answer any of this today. I just bring it up now for a longer, future discussion. 17:10:33 3. change the bug status and talk to the ekiga team 17:10:43 all questions answered 17:10:56 is this possiblly better served by and email to the a11y list? 17:10:57 the proceeding bit requires (REQUIRES) the ekiga team 17:11:03 they will not see the bug 17:11:06 because it is fixed 17:11:12 they will not know what the bug is about 17:11:14 about 3, the problem is the same that usual, we are underdeveloped 17:11:17 "we" 17:11:24 as joanmarie is saying is not the people on this room 17:11:25 because the report is "Project AEGIS need this feature:" 17:11:27 * clown but I am working out... 17:11:28 but ekiga maintainers 17:11:48 so contrary to what you keep telling us korn, our points about the status are relevant 17:11:58 because you are not going to need to convince us 17:12:04 but rather the Ekiga team 17:12:05 all the people in this room is already overloaded, so although we could be interested on that kind of features, we can't be the working force behind 17:12:26 and from what you stated korn, the current patch has problems 17:12:33 that, too, should be stated in the bug 17:12:41 Sigh. Joanie, I'm not saying your points aren't relevant. I'm saying, can we put those aside for a moment to address some questions. You did, and in parallel I'm going to work with Yanjing (Oracle Beijing engineer who filed the bug) to fix the problems with that bug. 17:12:43 because if the problem is one the ekiga team won't catch 17:13:09 And I am saying the points are not only relevant, but form the basis of the next steps 17:13:30 * jjmarin has no idea about communication apps, but from my ignorance I though Empathy was the right app for adding new chat features 17:13:34 bottom line: You MUST convince the ekiga developers and work with them 17:13:40 We are NOT the ekiga developers 17:13:58 None of us here, afaik, contribute to ekiga 17:14:02 or are familiar with that code 17:14:16 we cannot do anything of any import to address your concerns 17:14:29 Does Ekiga have a mailing list? If so, then it wouldn't hurt to send an email there to ask if anyone is interested in picking up the work. That seems to be the main issue, that someone would need to take the time to finish what AEGIS started 17:14:29 other than state: Deaf people should have this feature 17:14:39 I'm sorry. I'm clearly not doing a good job communicating this. 17:14:50 Yes mgorse - that is the core question. 17:16:13 korn, in that case, and as clown suggested, this point is more something to be pushed and tracked via email 17:16:23 anyway, thanks for reporting us about those patches 17:16:35 Because this meeting was in-process - about 10 minutes after I found out he'd done this - I thought I'd raise the topic here in 'misc. time'. 17:16:56 * clown is worried that we creamed korn here. surely not our intention. 17:17:00 But I've held you over time, and I thought heidi might also have an item. So I'll close my topic. 17:17:10 korn, ok thanks 17:17:14 korn: thanks. please raise this with the ekiga team 17:17:16 as I say, thanks for reporting us 17:17:35 so, heidi, just in case you are still here 17:17:44 do you want to mention something ? [NOTE: For some reason/bug in meetbot, Heidi's text was not logged and commands not accepted. Joanie will look into this. In the meantime, the following is taken from the bot's backup/always-on logger.] And from the academic front, Western New England University and colleagues from Drexel and NCC have recieved an NSF grant yayayayay NCC = Nassau Community College and congrats The grant is to provide funding to get faculty members to workshops to learn about FOSS and humanitarian FOSS in particular. btw heidi, if you type a #info in front of your statements, they get auto-added to the meeting minutes Got it #info And from the academic front, Western New England University and colleagues from Drexel and NCC have recieved an NSF grant #info The grant is to provide funding to get faculty members to workshops to learn about FOSS and humanitarian FOSS in particular. tyvm :) #info The work is still ramping up so look for more announcements in the coming months. * joanie cheers #info And if you know of any faculty who want some help getting started, send them to me! :-) #info ells@wne.edu #info Joanie is still interested in seeing if we could do some of her "outreach program for professors" work in partnership with this new program. GNOME is still interested in doing this #info Heidi thinks this is a really good idea and welcomes all input! and the Executive Director likes the idea (but just went on maternity leave) Ah, good! Having native FOSSers is a really important component of this. anyhoo, I am totally excited about this for the respective universities and colleges * joanie nods We're also working on building the TeachingOpenSource community as part of the effort. Me too! and anything the accessibility team can do to help you all out, please let us know. I like the idea ! OK, thanks! Wonderful! I do appreciate how supportive you folks are. we appreciate all of your involvement and the involvement of your students One last question? * korn Waves goodbye to all *** korn has left #a11y-meeting fine with me, heidi shoot fire away I've got students working on Epiphany extensions and Joanie suggested "lists of" we're a polite but violent team :-) heidi: I'm emailing you btw Where with a single keystroke, one could see all of the links on a page. Ah, OK. So is this question moot? I simply wanted feedback on other "list" extensions to direct students to. yeah, I'm answering that now not sure what that means, heidi: the links are highlighted? made bold? magnifiied? :-) for team benefit, JAWS and other windows screen readers as well as voice over.... have features to bring up various dialogs with list of elements list of links clown, that all links are shown in a window, allowing the user to navigate only the links. list of headings etc. ah, that sounds familiar... Or to select only the links that have been visited, or not visited. etc. :-) so it provides quick overview of content and quick navigation reminds me of aria landmark roles. and Orca users want this but it is not something ONLY screen reader users need e.g. a magnification user could also benefit so it makes more sense to have it in the browser * clown notes that aria is for all ATs, not just screen readers. as an extension exactly and while not ARIA, these list-of dialogs are similar in that spirit so I suggest providing something similar (list of dialog) for landmarks roles. moreover, doing it in the browser is more reliable and more performant "landmark" roles clown: could you provide us with a list of those roles clown, what are "landmark" roles? :-) heido: good question ! :-) I wonder too :-) and how they are identified via html * clown looks up link. so that they could be done in an epiphany extension yay thanks clown! oh, in html, they are defined as "role='blah'" yes, thanks clown! and the role attribute is on any element. Ah, got it! ok this is close: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#kbd_layout_landmarks see step 4. for specifics. clown, thanks! This is quite helpful. ysy! awesome thanks clown make that teh awesome :P btw, that documentation is for authors. So, assuming the author has put in the landmarks, then the ATs can make use of them. :-) ditto! Got it. [End of backup copy] 17:31:16 well, folks 17:31:21 anything else in this point? 17:31:25 something else to announce 17:31:39 just mentioning because we are already 30 minutes over time ;) 17:31:48 so??? 17:31:56 API always the whip-cracker 17:31:57 * clown ducks. 17:31:59 :P 17:32:06 he 17:32:18 well, just saying that if you want to keep talking about this 17:32:23 details and so on 17:32:28 probably #a11y is a better plance 17:32:34 fearless leader has spoken 17:32:40 anyway, heidi congrats 17:32:42 all humble minions, change rooms 17:32:43 NOW 17:32:45 :P 17:32:45 and thanks for the announcement 17:32:53 so, closing meeting 17:33:04 thanks everybody for being here 17:33:17 we were happy to do so heidi 17:33:23 really happy 17:33:23 and will do so any time you need 17:33:33 #endmeeting