16:06:39 #startmeeting 16:06:39 Meeting started Thu Jul 5 16:06:39 2012 CET. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:06:39 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:06:51 #topic Planning how to use the FoG funds 16:06:58 joanie, jjmarin ? 16:07:03 I'll take this 16:07:48 #info The FoG is nearly over. During the last (and Joanie's first) Foundation Board meeting, it was suggested that she would have something to present to the rest of the Board on how these funds might be applied. 16:08:08 #info Joanie has all sorts of ideas, but she is not (yet) supreme dictator of the universe. ;) 16:08:28 #info Therefore, we as a team should make a short list of priorities. 16:09:00 #info Short list because $20,000 -- while very much appreciated -- is realistically very little money and will not remotely address everything we need to do. 16:09:31 #action Joanie will create a page on the wiki where these ideas can be jotted down. 16:09:45 +1 16:10:06 #info Since we are having an unexpected two-day-long BoF/Camp/Whatever at GUADEC, we can also discuss these items there. 16:10:37 #info However, since not everyone will be present, Joanie feels it would be best to have as full of a list of candidate "wish list" items in advance. 16:10:50 * joanie yields the floor for comment 16:11:16 * jjmarin thinks it sounds very sensible 16:11:23 yes, thanks joanie 16:11:31 just guessing if we should debate about 16:11:36 how to use the money 16:11:50 in the sense of "just one project" or "several projects" 16:11:50 I think a debate might be in order 16:11:57 so first let's make a list 16:12:03 so we have something to debate 16:12:04 although probably thats inherent to those items 16:12:04 ye 16:12:06 s 16:12:16 I would also like the debates to happen where they are clearly documented 16:12:17 ok, make sense 16:12:30 so that I can present to the board "here is what we as a team think and why" 16:12:37 hold on a sec, lemme info that. 16:12:50 once you create the list, do you plan to announce it to gnome-accessibility list? to IRC? 16:13:02 * API holding 16:13:03 #info Joanie would also like the debates to happen where they are clearly documented so that she can present to the board "Here is what we as a team think ande why." 16:13:10 there was a page that had proposals/grant-applications. I can't remember the url, though. we could use that as a starting point. 16:13:57 clown, but as far as I remember those were projects bigger that 20k $ 16:14:04 #action (Amended) Joanie will create a page on the wiki where these ideas can be jotted down. Having done so, she will annnounce this page on the mailing list. 16:14:05 although not 100% sure 16:14:22 clown: API: I'll work them in somehow 16:14:28 either start there, reference it, whatever 16:14:29 API, I don't remember. As a total? Or each individual project? 16:14:43 joanie: sounds good. 16:14:54 there's also the possibility of those tasks being broken into smaller ones 16:14:54 clown, I think that individually each one was bigger, but not sure either 16:14:59 * jhernandez wondering if clown is talking about https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/FoG 16:15:23 jhernandez: thanks, that's close. 16:15:39 but the actual grant applications aren't there; nor the budgets. 16:15:47 * clown must be another related page. 16:16:21 I think clown is refering https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Marketing/Biddings 16:16:49 yup, jjmarin. 16:16:54 only two there, though 16:17:07 so yes, definitively I was wrong 16:17:13 all were smaller that 20k 16:17:56 API, the performance improvements comes to a total of 25k 16:18:10 clown, yes but it was split in two 16:18:17 although it is broken down into … right. 16:18:18 so each one is <20 16:18:36 anyhow, probably too much detail for this meeting — we found the page. that's enough. 16:18:56 clown: you caught API's efficiency flu. :P 16:18:57 yes 16:18:59 it's fatal 16:19:07 so, any other question, doubt? 16:19:08 * clown croaks 16:19:19 * joanie wonders how clown looks in all black and with a frown on his face 16:19:22 * joanie hides 16:19:35 * clown he looks mahvallous! 16:19:41 I'm set on this topic if everyone else is. 16:19:43 :) 16:20:11 ok, lets move 16:20:17 #topic Reminders 16:20:26 #info Q2 Reports due 16:20:36 https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/QuarterlyReports/2012/Q2 16:20:56 I think that everybody knows how that Quarterly reports works 16:20:58 :P 16:21:00 questions? 16:21:03 #action Joseph will add to the a11y Q2 report page regarding progress on GNOME Shell magnifier by next meeting (Jul 12). 16:22:06 it seems that no 16:22:09 so please 16:22:11 as clown did 16:22:25 or as clown plan 16:22:32 update a11y Q2 report page 16:22:36 next reminder ... 16:22:41 is Jul 12 soon enough, or do you want it sooner? 16:22:45 #info Sign up for the GUADEC BoF, "A11yCamp" 16:22:54 https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BoFs/A11yCamp2012 16:23:07 questions, comments? 16:23:11 clown: that's soon enough 16:23:15 api I have a comment 16:24:05 #info As is indicated on the A11yCamp page, the event is two days long (30-31 July), but unconference style. 16:24:18 #info It is not expected for everyone (or anyone) to be there the entire time. 16:24:53 #info We will have at least IRC. We may or may not be able to pull off voice, video, etc. Joanie will look into that. 16:25:19 #info Therefore even if you know you will not be able to attend in person, Joanie would appreciate it if remote attendees could sign up as well. 16:25:42 #info That way we know how many people will be there and can include those remote people when considering when to have what discussions. 16:25:45 (done) 16:26:24 actually not done, but it's a new thread related to this. 16:26:39 jjmarin: Now is the time to promote this event. 16:26:51 * jjmarin think is good idea to promote the a11ycamp is the mailing lists to invite people join us, the more people add to the participant list in advance, the better. 16:26:53 jjmarin: You are the team's Guy Who Promotes Stuff. 16:27:02 :) 16:27:29 I would like to personally reply on the BugSquad list to Andre 16:27:32 the "GWPS"? 16:27:34 but all the others are yours 16:27:39 I think API is better to write to the d-d-l list 16:27:53 I never get any reply for that list :-) 16:28:05 #action Joanie will reply to Andre personally about A11yCamp. 16:28:07 this can be the first time ;) 16:28:27 anyway, this kind of announcements usually doesn't lead to replies 16:28:35 as they are informative 16:29:10 ok, then I'll write the email 16:29:17 jhernandez, thanks 16:29:17 ups 16:29:18 ai jjmarin? 16:29:20 jjmarin, thanks 16:29:42 * API autocompletion and more that one name starting by j 16:29:43 #action Juanjo will promote the a11ycamp in the gnome community 16:29:59 :) Thanks jjmarin 16:30:19 (I'm done w.r.t. this topic if everyone else else) 16:30:25 API: Do you know if Felipe will attend the a11ycamp 16:30:26 * joanie fears the Man In Black 16:30:42 Will Smith? 16:30:50 jjmarin, Felipe Erias Morandeira? 16:30:58 yes 16:31:11 don't know, but it would be good 16:31:22 I think he's working in orca UI and can give some clues about a11y design 16:31:28 ie: to talk about Orca preference ui and blah 16:31:28 * joanie nods 16:31:59 I see Felipe as (hopefully) becoming our team's Design Guy. 16:32:03 as his time permits 16:32:11 so, more questions on the reminders topic? 16:32:18 not from me 16:32:25 ok, lets move then 16:32:41 #topic GNOME 3.6 16:32:51 #info About atk-bridge 16:33:16 #info Luke, mgorse and me were talking about the gtk3 at-spi2-atk module 16:33:27 #info Luke has less concerns now 16:33:34 (yay) 16:33:55 #info API was testing Unity with atk-bridge provided some branches 16:34:31 #info so next steps: kill that gtk3 module, propose those unity branches 16:34:59 #info that also means that current atk-bridge API is considered "final" 16:35:16 #info still on unstable branches, but will be as it is now for a time 16:35:42 #info if in the end a bridge object is exposed, the current API will not change, but some methods will be added 16:35:50 wow, this was longer that I planned 16:35:52 done 16:35:59 heh 16:36:01 mgorse, anything to add or to correct? 16:36:05 But a good update. Thanks! 16:36:46 I guess this is somewhat unrelated, but there's also https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020512 16:37:19 * API looking 16:37:20 and part of the issue is that gtk+ isn't telling atk-bridge to clean up, so I need to file a bug 16:37:27 * clown loading ... 16:37:41 * joanie presses F5 on clown 16:38:30 mgorse, with a module gtk+ was properly cleaning up? 16:38:56 no, but then the sockets used to be in /tmp/at-spi2 16:39:17 * jjmarin gets the idea after reading that bug that at-spi2 is considered like a sort-of virus or something 16:39:35 ie, bug 678348 16:39:35 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678348 major, Normal, ---, mgorse, RESOLVED FIXED, Creates a potentially insecure non-randomized /tmp/at-spi2 directory to store sockets 16:41:01 mgorse, ah ok, but I guess that we would have that problem if we were still using the bridge as a module, right? 16:41:06 Anyway, other than that, I don't have anything to add 16:41:33 Yeah. It's a bit unrelated 16:41:50 mgorse, ok, but also something to have in mind 16:41:53 thanks 16:42:08 so, going on with the topic 16:42:10 GNOME 3.6 16:42:29 clown, we were talking about focus tracking on last meeting (or previous one I don't remember) 16:42:44 yes, API 16:42:47 do you have now more information about if that feature will be available for 3.6? 16:43:01 and btw2, did you take a look to aleiva work? 16:43:08 unfortunately, no. little progress between last week and this. 16:43:26 I did a cursory look at aleiva's approach. 16:43:35 he is using X events. I am using Atspi. 16:44:09 my intuition says that Atspi provide more info, and better integrates with GNOME Shell, but if anyone has other ideas... 16:44:19 well, aleiva is not here 16:44:32 but it could be a good question 16:44:42 why he decided to use X events instead of atspi 16:44:49 okay 16:44:53 ie: is atspi lacking something? 16:45:07 clown, you also said that you suffered some crashes 16:45:07 it might be "performance" again. 16:45:22 API: clown I'll talk to aleiva about this 16:45:22 but you were not sure if was due your work or due gnome-shell 16:45:31 you know that now? 16:45:34 Yes, that is the little bit of progress. I set up a brand new F17 system 16:46:14 Usually I do the developement within a VM. The worry being that it might be something funny in the virtual graphics drivers. 16:46:24 So far, on the real machine, no crashses. 16:46:33 clown, ok, good 16:47:02 but, for some cases, there is a noticeable delay before the callback fires. 16:47:20 an example is the alt-tab to bring up the task switcher. 16:47:50 It takes about 5 seconds for it to come up once I start listening for focus events. 16:47:56 clown: I think there is a general a11y issue there. 16:48:13 I don't always see it, but sometimes when I launch Orca and immediately alt+tab it's there. 16:48:16 it feels like a asynchronous/synchronous issue, but I need to investigate more. 16:49:05 but, stepping back, and addressing the main issue — will this be ready by 3.6. I still can't say one way or other. 16:49:24 clown, ok thanks 16:49:36 some pretty #info please? 16:49:43 okay 16:50:26 #info Joseph skimmed aleiva's focus tracking approach for compiz, and noted that he is using X events, while Joseph is using Atpsi. 16:50:38 #Info there is a question as to which is "better". 16:50:52 whoops — does case matter on the 'info'? 16:51:08 #info there is a question as to which is "better". 16:51:18 * clown copy/paste is your friend. 16:51:56 #info to see if the crashes are due to using a VM, Joseph set up a "real" F17 system, and the crashes have not occurred there. 16:52:37 #info however, there is a noticeable time lag when listening for focus events for some UI. Example: the task switcher invoked from alt+tab 16:52:46 #info investigation continues. 16:52:59 #info unclear if this will be ready for 3.6. 16:53:01 (done). 16:53:08 clown, ok thanks 16:53:11 wlcm 16:53:16 less that 10 minutes to go 16:53:27 people, other stuff related with "GNOME 3.6" topic? 16:53:36 In the design front, there are new symbolic icons for apps (like libreoffice) here https://github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-icons 16:54:02 though we are not validating anny of this work 16:54:26 it is useful for many a11y users I think 16:55:37 Do you think we should do anything about it ? 16:55:38 hmm, but do design team have a specific goal about those symbols towards GNOME 3.6? 16:56:17 I don't know sincerly 16:56:37 jjmarin, ok 16:56:37 I guess if there are considered finished, they will be delivered 16:56:42 just asking because of the topic :P 16:56:50 ok 16:56:51 it's part of a GSoC project 16:56:58 well, it would be good to ask them 16:57:17 jjmarin, for minutes sake, a #info? 16:57:22 ok 16:57:55 #info The design team is working in more symbolic icons for apps 16:58:44 #Info Juanjo will ask to the design team about their plan to release a new set symbolic icons for GNOME 3.6 16:59:05 #action Juanjo will ask to the design team about their plan to release a new set symbolic icons for GNOME 3.6 16:59:22 ok 16:59:23 I think is more action than info, right ? 16:59:30 :-) 16:59:34 jjmarin, yes, it is fine 16:59:43 and as we are almost without time 16:59:57 #topic Marketing and Fundraising 16:59:58 jjmarin, ? 17:00:37 #info the FoG counter for the a11y campaing is $18,245 - only $1,755 to go 17:01:12 jjmarin, from last meeting, you had this ai: 17:01:15 Talk with Karen about companies donating to the FoG a11y campaign. 17:01:18 still pending? 17:02:04 #Info Karen re-sent some requests to some companies to fill the last mile 17:02:31 We don't have an answer AFAIK 17:02:56 no more real info 17:03:27 jjmarin, ok thanks 17:03:31 the counter is about a week old, so maybe we are only $1000 or so to go 17:03:35 np 17:03:38 anything else ont this point? 17:03:57 not for my part, questions ? 17:04:06 s/for/from/ 17:04:58 chan chan chaaan 17:05:01 or in english 17:05:04 dun dun dun! 17:05:09 Lol 17:05:09 well, it seems that no questions 17:05:13 so just in case 17:05:18 #topic miscellaneous time 17:05:28 anything not scheduled to comment? 17:06:32 and now is when clown usually yields the floor for comment :-P 17:06:43 jjmarin: i was thinking the same 17:06:48 * clown yields the floor for commnet 17:06:52 xDDDDD 17:06:54 heh 17:07:06 miscellaneous time is miscellaneous 17:07:30 :-) 17:07:31 * jhernandez votes for doing a s/miscellaneous/clown's 17:07:49 hehe 17:09:27 ok, 5 minutes of silent misc time was enough 17:09:43 so, thanks everybody 17:09:46 #endmeeting