1 16:07:00 <API> #startmeeting
   2 16:07:00 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu May  3 16:07:00 2012 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 16:07:00 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 16:07:23 <API> #topic release team meeting
   5 16:07:41 <API> #info this Sat 05 is planned a RT meeting
   6 16:08:11 <API> #info part of the tentative agenda is about things that worked well on GNOME 3.4
   7 16:08:21 <API> #info and also things that got wrong
   8 16:08:28 <API> #info also discussion about feature proposal
   9 16:08:54 <API> so I will talk about things that went good/bad on accessibility side
  10 16:09:10 <API> but if you think that I should mention something specific you can ping me
  11 16:09:27 <API> questions, doubts?
  12 16:09:31 <joanie> good/bad with respect to what?
  13 16:10:21 <API> btw, tentative agenda:
  14 16:10:24 <API> #info https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2012-April/msg00038.html
  15 16:10:32 <API> joanie, with respect to GNOME 3.4 release
  16 16:10:39 * joanie smiles
  17 16:10:43 <joanie> that much I figured
  18 16:10:45 <API> on the agenda they mention "forgot to inform i18n"
  19 16:11:03 <API> I think that I would mention as a issue more than a problem
  20 16:11:17 <API> that brightness/contrast "almost" got GNOME 3.4 deadline
  21 16:11:30 <joanie> +1 for that
  22 16:11:36 <API> but in general, things that could be better
  23 16:12:23 <API> taking into account recent threads on desktop-devel
  24 16:12:31 <API> I guess that we are also going to talk about
  25 16:12:37 <API> feature proposal procedures
  26 16:12:58 * joanie wonders if clown has comments to provide API about the brightness/contrast stuff
  27 16:12:58 <API> as Seif thinks that it is confusing for "middleware" module maintainers
  28 16:13:05 <API> and also relation with design people
  29 16:13:34 <API> or if I need to say something about focus tracking ;)
  30 16:13:35 * clown wonders what the relation with design people is.
  31 16:13:49 <clown> API, re:  brightness/contrast...
  32 16:14:14 <clown> right now there is a 'commit-now' on two patches to the GS-mag, but...
  33 16:14:42 <clown> they depend on a gsettings bugzilla ...
  34 16:15:02 <clown> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=645665#c7
  35 16:15:02 <tota11y> 04Bug 645665: normal, Normal, ---, gsettings-desktop-schemas-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Magnifier: Add brightness and contrast preferences
  36 16:15:22 <clown> which could be wrapped up in minutes, but hasn't been.
  37 16:15:42 <clown> if this is a release team issue, well, now you know.
  38 16:15:53 <clown> re:  focus-tracking.
  39 16:16:13 <clown> I was going to update the status on the features request page sometime this week, but briefly...
  40 16:16:17 <API> clown, well, obviously not in so detail, keep saying that it is "almost done, pending or review" will be enough
  41 16:17:14 <clown> a good chunk of the code is written, and needs debugging.  The main issue is calling into the atspi event queue asynchronously from with java script (talk about detail...).
  42 16:17:33 <joanie> clown: did you have any thoughts on why this didn't get included in 3.4? In terms of the process, etc. of the 3.4 cycle?
  43 16:17:45 <joanie> since it sounds like the RT is doing a post-mortem
  44 16:17:46 <API> clown, so the plan is still propose that as a GNOME 3.6 feature, right?
  45 16:18:06 <clown> joanie:  this == brightness/contrast?
  46 16:18:12 * joanie nods
  47 16:18:20 * API this is also relevant as we plan to review the features proposed on previous cycle
  48 16:18:51 <clown> API focus tracking is on the ThreePointFive list of feature proposals.
  49 16:19:07 <clown> re: process around brightness/contrast, let me think about it.
  50 16:20:02 <API> clown, well, in general any feature not finished on previous cycle was moved to the next
  51 16:20:04 <clown> I'll send my thoughts via email to API — is that a good approach?
  52 16:20:09 <API> I asked if a re-proposal was required
  53 16:20:11 <joanie> clown: I think so
  54 16:20:24 <API> and matthias said not, just a review would be enough
  55 16:20:29 <API> clown, yes, thanks
  56 16:20:33 <clown> API, I don't know what you mean be "re-proposal".
  57 16:20:51 <API> I mean that I asked
  58 16:21:02 <API> if those people needed to propose again those features
  59 16:21:10 * API being paranoid on last day of feature proposal
  60 16:21:24 <API> matthias said that this was not required
  61 16:21:41 * joanie notes the gnome-goals bullet point
  62 16:21:41 <API> but that a little review of those features not finished would be good
  63 16:21:42 <clown> API, let's suppose that the answer was "yes, a re-proposal is needed".  What are the actual implications of that?
  64 16:21:58 <API> some of them showed 0 work on the previous cycle, so probably will be dropped
  65 16:22:23 <clown> I see.  Yes, focus tracking showed zero work, pretty much.
  66 16:22:26 <API> clown, I think that as far as I said "clown is working on that, and he still plans to get this ready for 3.6"
  67 16:22:32 <joanie> clown: ditto for Dots
  68 16:22:39 <joanie> but focus tracking should NOT be dropped
  69 16:22:40 <clown> okay.  I get it now.
  70 16:22:41 <API> but in the same way, at least you plan to work on that
  71 16:22:46 <joanie> dots as an official feature can be
  72 16:22:59 <joanie> doesn't mean I won't resume hacking on it once I'm more caught up on Orca stuff
  73 16:23:07 <clown> no, it shouldn't be dropped especially since I've actually done some work this cycle.
  74 16:23:11 <joanie> ;)
  75 16:23:16 <clown> amount of work != 0.
  76 16:23:29 <joanie> ditto for me and dots
  77 16:23:32 <joanie> but it wasn't committed
  78 16:23:40 * clown will make effort to update the status section of the features page.
  79 16:23:55 <API> ok, thanks everybody
  80 16:23:57 <joanie> API in terms of what was good:
  81 16:24:05 * API waiting
  82 16:24:05 <joanie> No forced gnome-goals ;)
  83 16:24:17 <joanie> snarkiness aside, surprise gnome-goals suck
  84 16:24:35 <joanie> where surprise == "Orca will break if you don't do this goal"
  85 16:25:24 <clown> before we move on, I'm still wondering what "relation with design people" means.
  86 16:25:36 <joanie> (and I'm done)
  87 16:25:51 <API> clown, well some people were complaining
  88 16:25:55 <API> on desktop-devel-list
  89 16:26:02 <API> that interaction with design people is hard
  90 16:26:04 <clown> as in, "it's great; let's not change anything" vs. "it's abysmal, how can we improve it"?
  91 16:26:18 <API> and that in some cases, extreme cases
  92 16:26:41 <API> some complains like saying that design people dictates what is in and whats not
  93 16:26:46 <API> clown, the latter
  94 16:26:49 <clown> I tend to agree with that.  but, it shouldn't be.  But, I think there is a basic distrust between designers and developers.
  95 16:27:17 <API> well, that depends on who do you ask
  96 16:27:25 <clown> "we" appear to have solve it, here at the IDRC.
  97 16:27:28 <API> ie: allan day seems are receptive with designers
  98 16:27:35 <clown> but, it took a bit of effort.
  99 16:27:48 <API> and in general Emmanuelle Bassi is also a design team supporter (AFAIS)
 100 16:28:06 <API> s/Emmanuelle/Emmanuele
 101 16:28:39 <API> but IMHO, this seems more a communication problem that anything else
 102 16:28:50 <API> some have proposed to create a gnome-design mailing list
 103 16:28:51 <API> for example
 104 16:28:59 <API> etc
 105 16:29:18 <clown> there could be a lot flames there (that might be too cynical).
 106 16:29:30 <API> in fact, it is somewhat a flame
 107 16:29:49 <API> I guess that as soon as you get some harsh emails, and some people asking for apologies
 108 16:29:56 <API> you can declare a thread as a flame
 109 16:30:12 <API> anyway ..., probably this is too much detail for the a11y meeting ...
 110 16:30:15 <clown> makes sense.
 111 16:30:20 <API> clown, did I answer your question?
 112 16:30:29 <clown> yes, you did.  thanks.
 113 16:31:20 <API> ok, so lets move, as it is meeting start and a half
 114 16:31:29 <API> #topic Ohio Linux Fest?
 115 16:31:55 <API> #info jjmarin sent a mail to Bryen, waiting for answer (Bryen is traveling)
 116 16:32:08 <API> btw, jjmarin told us that he couldn'¡t be there
 117 16:32:12 <API> so he sent us a summary
 118 16:32:29 <API> questions, doubts?
 119 16:32:44 <joanie> related topic
 120 16:33:12 <joanie> since I had the action item of adding a possible workshop for this linux fest
 121 16:33:39 <joanie> I'm wondering how many people on this side of the pond would be interested in a day or two a11y hackfest
 122 16:34:05 <joanie> taking place during (or right before/after) the linux fest
 123 16:34:19 <joanie> because all of the other events we've had have been in Europe
 124 16:34:42 <mgorse> Well, if I'm going anyway, then I guess it would be a convenient time for it, though I don't know how many of us are on "this side of the pond"
 125 16:34:55 <joanie> clown is
 126 16:35:02 * clown walden pond?
 127 16:35:20 <joanie> and if, say, david bolter comes down (since Bryen seems to want multiple orgs represented)
 128 16:35:30 <clown> when is it again?  this fall?
 129 16:35:34 <joanie> clown: well, you and I are on the same side of Walden pond
 130 16:35:38 <joanie> but mgorse ain't
 131 16:35:54 <joanie> yeah, early october I believe
 132 16:35:55 * joanie looks
 133 16:36:13 <joanie> 28-30 sept
 134 16:36:20 <clown> there is an aria face to face meeting this fall as well.  I'll have to check for conflicts.
 135 16:36:23 <mgorse> Around the time of the Boston summit (or is it really a Montreal summit, or something else?)
 136 16:36:57 <clown> and, if there is no conflict, I'd need funding to go to Ohio, since all the travel funds I have are for the aria face to face.
 137 16:37:02 <joanie> mgorse: who knows re boston summit
 138 16:37:12 <joanie> clown: travel funding might be a problem
 139 16:37:18 <joanie> this is the other reason I mentioned it
 140 16:37:28 <joanie> flying to europe tends to be more expensive
 141 16:37:33 <clown> yeah.
 142 16:37:39 <joanie> sucky economy sucks
 143 16:38:04 <joanie> okay, so lemme info this
 144 16:38:38 <joanie> #info Joanie asked if it would be worthwhile to have some sort of a11y team event/hackfest at/before/after the Ohio Linux Fest (28-30 September).
 145 16:38:59 <joanie> #info Her rationale is that all recent events for the team have been in Europe.
 146 16:39:07 <joanie> #info No conclusions reached at this time.
 147 16:39:08 <joanie> (done)
 148 16:39:59 <API> ok, so I guess that that done is "green light to move on"
 149 16:40:00 <API> right?
 150 16:40:04 <shaunm> joanie, mgorse: honestly, nobody knows re boston/montreal summit
 151 16:40:17 <joanie> shaunm: I gathered that from the Foundation list
 152 16:40:25 <joanie> so I'm guessing that I won't be going
 153 16:40:27 * clown quebec city is nice...
 154 16:40:32 <joanie> since I will be going to Grace Hopper
 155 16:41:59 <joanie> anyhoo, moving on?
 156 16:42:20 <API> ok
 157 16:42:27 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
 158 16:42:32 <API> in jjmarin behalf:
 159 16:42:47 <API> #info The last figure of the FoG Campaign is $15,297 so $4,703 to go
 160 16:43:02 <API> done
 161 16:43:10 <API> if you have questions doubts,
 162 16:43:17 <API> you would require to send them via email to jjmarin
 163 16:44:19 <API> so I will move on
 164 16:44:22 <API> #topic Reminders
 165 16:44:32 <API> #info Draft notes needed for Q1's
 166 16:44:43 <API> #info Input needed for the Open Help Conference
 167 16:44:54 <API> questions, doubts, other reminders that I forgot?
 168 16:45:49 <joanie> not that I recall
 169 16:46:06 <joanie> but if I remembered, it would be on the agenda and I wouldn't need reminding. ;)
 170 16:46:33 <API> well, as we said, today we had a light agenda
 171 16:46:43 <API> so as nobody wants to add any other reminder
 172 16:46:47 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
 173 16:47:01 <API> someone wants to add something short and not-scheduled?
 174 16:47:11 * joanie ai's herself:
 175 16:47:27 <joanie> #action Joanie will update the 3.4 team planning pages for 3.6
 176 16:47:41 <joanie> (done)
 177 16:49:01 <joanie> is it nap time yet?
 178 16:50:30 <API> I have been sleeping all the meeting
 179 16:50:43 <API> my words were basically snores
 180 16:50:48 <joanie> crap! I've been DoingItWrong(tm)
 181 16:51:01 <joanie> #fakeaction joanie will nap at all future meetings
 182 16:51:33 <API> so taking that into account how miscellaneous misc time became
 183 16:51:38 <API> I will close the meeting
 184 16:51:42 <API> thanks everybody
 185 16:51:46 <API> see you neext meeting
 186 16:51:48 <API> next meeting
 187 16:51:51 <API> #endmeeting