16:07:00 #startmeeting 16:07:00 Meeting started Thu May 3 16:07:00 2012 CET. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:07:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:07:23 #topic release team meeting 16:07:41 #info this Sat 05 is planned a RT meeting 16:08:11 #info part of the tentative agenda is about things that worked well on GNOME 3.4 16:08:21 #info and also things that got wrong 16:08:28 #info also discussion about feature proposal 16:08:54 so I will talk about things that went good/bad on accessibility side 16:09:10 but if you think that I should mention something specific you can ping me 16:09:27 questions, doubts? 16:09:31 good/bad with respect to what? 16:10:21 btw, tentative agenda: 16:10:24 #info https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2012-April/msg00038.html 16:10:32 joanie, with respect to GNOME 3.4 release 16:10:39 * joanie smiles 16:10:43 that much I figured 16:10:45 on the agenda they mention "forgot to inform i18n" 16:11:03 I think that I would mention as a issue more than a problem 16:11:17 that brightness/contrast "almost" got GNOME 3.4 deadline 16:11:30 +1 for that 16:11:36 but in general, things that could be better 16:12:23 taking into account recent threads on desktop-devel 16:12:31 I guess that we are also going to talk about 16:12:37 feature proposal procedures 16:12:58 * joanie wonders if clown has comments to provide API about the brightness/contrast stuff 16:12:58 as Seif thinks that it is confusing for "middleware" module maintainers 16:13:05 and also relation with design people 16:13:34 or if I need to say something about focus tracking ;) 16:13:35 * clown wonders what the relation with design people is. 16:13:49 API, re: brightness/contrast... 16:14:14 right now there is a 'commit-now' on two patches to the GS-mag, but... 16:14:42 they depend on a gsettings bugzilla ... 16:15:02 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=645665#c7 16:15:02 04Bug 645665: normal, Normal, ---, gsettings-desktop-schemas-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Magnifier: Add brightness and contrast preferences 16:15:22 which could be wrapped up in minutes, but hasn't been. 16:15:42 if this is a release team issue, well, now you know. 16:15:53 re: focus-tracking. 16:16:13 I was going to update the status on the features request page sometime this week, but briefly... 16:16:17 clown, well, obviously not in so detail, keep saying that it is "almost done, pending or review" will be enough 16:17:14 a good chunk of the code is written, and needs debugging. The main issue is calling into the atspi event queue asynchronously from with java script (talk about detail...). 16:17:33 clown: did you have any thoughts on why this didn't get included in 3.4? In terms of the process, etc. of the 3.4 cycle? 16:17:45 since it sounds like the RT is doing a post-mortem 16:17:46 clown, so the plan is still propose that as a GNOME 3.6 feature, right? 16:18:06 joanie: this == brightness/contrast? 16:18:12 * joanie nods 16:18:20 * API this is also relevant as we plan to review the features proposed on previous cycle 16:18:51 API focus tracking is on the ThreePointFive list of feature proposals. 16:19:07 re: process around brightness/contrast, let me think about it. 16:20:02 clown, well, in general any feature not finished on previous cycle was moved to the next 16:20:04 I'll send my thoughts via email to API — is that a good approach? 16:20:09 I asked if a re-proposal was required 16:20:11 clown: I think so 16:20:24 and matthias said not, just a review would be enough 16:20:29 clown, yes, thanks 16:20:33 API, I don't know what you mean be "re-proposal". 16:20:51 I mean that I asked 16:21:02 if those people needed to propose again those features 16:21:10 * API being paranoid on last day of feature proposal 16:21:24 matthias said that this was not required 16:21:41 * joanie notes the gnome-goals bullet point 16:21:41 but that a little review of those features not finished would be good 16:21:42 API, let's suppose that the answer was "yes, a re-proposal is needed". What are the actual implications of that? 16:21:58 some of them showed 0 work on the previous cycle, so probably will be dropped 16:22:23 I see. Yes, focus tracking showed zero work, pretty much. 16:22:26 clown, I think that as far as I said "clown is working on that, and he still plans to get this ready for 3.6" 16:22:32 clown: ditto for Dots 16:22:39 but focus tracking should NOT be dropped 16:22:40 okay. I get it now. 16:22:41 but in the same way, at least you plan to work on that 16:22:46 dots as an official feature can be 16:22:59 doesn't mean I won't resume hacking on it once I'm more caught up on Orca stuff 16:23:07 no, it shouldn't be dropped especially since I've actually done some work this cycle. 16:23:11 ;) 16:23:16 amount of work != 0. 16:23:29 ditto for me and dots 16:23:32 but it wasn't committed 16:23:40 * clown will make effort to update the status section of the features page. 16:23:55 ok, thanks everybody 16:23:57 API in terms of what was good: 16:24:05 * API waiting 16:24:05 No forced gnome-goals ;) 16:24:17 snarkiness aside, surprise gnome-goals suck 16:24:35 where surprise == "Orca will break if you don't do this goal" 16:25:24 before we move on, I'm still wondering what "relation with design people" means. 16:25:36 (and I'm done) 16:25:51 clown, well some people were complaining 16:25:55 on desktop-devel-list 16:26:02 that interaction with design people is hard 16:26:04 as in, "it's great; let's not change anything" vs. "it's abysmal, how can we improve it"? 16:26:18 and that in some cases, extreme cases 16:26:41 some complains like saying that design people dictates what is in and whats not 16:26:46 clown, the latter 16:26:49 I tend to agree with that. but, it shouldn't be. But, I think there is a basic distrust between designers and developers. 16:27:17 well, that depends on who do you ask 16:27:25 "we" appear to have solve it, here at the IDRC. 16:27:28 ie: allan day seems are receptive with designers 16:27:35 but, it took a bit of effort. 16:27:48 and in general Emmanuelle Bassi is also a design team supporter (AFAIS) 16:28:06 s/Emmanuelle/Emmanuele 16:28:39 but IMHO, this seems more a communication problem that anything else 16:28:50 some have proposed to create a gnome-design mailing list 16:28:51 for example 16:28:59 etc 16:29:18 there could be a lot flames there (that might be too cynical). 16:29:30 in fact, it is somewhat a flame 16:29:49 I guess that as soon as you get some harsh emails, and some people asking for apologies 16:29:56 you can declare a thread as a flame 16:30:12 anyway ..., probably this is too much detail for the a11y meeting ... 16:30:15 makes sense. 16:30:20 clown, did I answer your question? 16:30:29 yes, you did. thanks. 16:31:20 ok, so lets move, as it is meeting start and a half 16:31:29 #topic Ohio Linux Fest? 16:31:55 #info jjmarin sent a mail to Bryen, waiting for answer (Bryen is traveling) 16:32:08 btw, jjmarin told us that he couldn'¡t be there 16:32:12 so he sent us a summary 16:32:29 questions, doubts? 16:32:44 related topic 16:33:12 since I had the action item of adding a possible workshop for this linux fest 16:33:39 I'm wondering how many people on this side of the pond would be interested in a day or two a11y hackfest 16:34:05 taking place during (or right before/after) the linux fest 16:34:19 because all of the other events we've had have been in Europe 16:34:42 Well, if I'm going anyway, then I guess it would be a convenient time for it, though I don't know how many of us are on "this side of the pond" 16:34:55 clown is 16:35:02 * clown walden pond? 16:35:20 and if, say, david bolter comes down (since Bryen seems to want multiple orgs represented) 16:35:30 when is it again? this fall? 16:35:34 clown: well, you and I are on the same side of Walden pond 16:35:38 but mgorse ain't 16:35:54 yeah, early october I believe 16:35:55 * joanie looks 16:36:13 28-30 sept 16:36:20 there is an aria face to face meeting this fall as well. I'll have to check for conflicts. 16:36:23 Around the time of the Boston summit (or is it really a Montreal summit, or something else?) 16:36:57 and, if there is no conflict, I'd need funding to go to Ohio, since all the travel funds I have are for the aria face to face. 16:37:02 mgorse: who knows re boston summit 16:37:12 clown: travel funding might be a problem 16:37:18 this is the other reason I mentioned it 16:37:28 flying to europe tends to be more expensive 16:37:33 yeah. 16:37:39 sucky economy sucks 16:38:04 okay, so lemme info this 16:38:38 #info Joanie asked if it would be worthwhile to have some sort of a11y team event/hackfest at/before/after the Ohio Linux Fest (28-30 September). 16:38:59 #info Her rationale is that all recent events for the team have been in Europe. 16:39:07 #info No conclusions reached at this time. 16:39:08 (done) 16:39:59 ok, so I guess that that done is "green light to move on" 16:40:00 right? 16:40:04 joanie, mgorse: honestly, nobody knows re boston/montreal summit 16:40:17 shaunm: I gathered that from the Foundation list 16:40:25 so I'm guessing that I won't be going 16:40:27 * clown quebec city is nice... 16:40:32 since I will be going to Grace Hopper 16:41:59 anyhoo, moving on? 16:42:20 ok 16:42:27 #topic Marketing and Fundraising 16:42:32 in jjmarin behalf: 16:42:47 #info The last figure of the FoG Campaign is $15,297 so $4,703 to go 16:43:02 done 16:43:10 if you have questions doubts, 16:43:17 you would require to send them via email to jjmarin 16:44:19 so I will move on 16:44:22 #topic Reminders 16:44:32 #info Draft notes needed for Q1's 16:44:43 #info Input needed for the Open Help Conference 16:44:54 questions, doubts, other reminders that I forgot? 16:45:49 not that I recall 16:46:06 but if I remembered, it would be on the agenda and I wouldn't need reminding. ;) 16:46:33 well, as we said, today we had a light agenda 16:46:43 so as nobody wants to add any other reminder 16:46:47 #topic Miscellaneous time 16:47:01 someone wants to add something short and not-scheduled? 16:47:11 * joanie ai's herself: 16:47:27 #action Joanie will update the 3.4 team planning pages for 3.6 16:47:41 (done) 16:49:01 is it nap time yet? 16:50:30 I have been sleeping all the meeting 16:50:43 my words were basically snores 16:50:48 crap! I've been DoingItWrong(tm) 16:51:01 #fakeaction joanie will nap at all future meetings 16:51:33 so taking that into account how miscellaneous misc time became 16:51:38 I will close the meeting 16:51:42 thanks everybody 16:51:46 see you neext meeting 16:51:48 next meeting 16:51:51 #endmeeting