15:05:17 <joanie> #startmeeting
15:05:17 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Mar 29 15:05:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is joanie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:05:17 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:05:30 <joanie> #info Uber-Fast Meeting Today
15:05:33 <joanie> oops
15:05:38 <joanie> #topic Uber-Fast Meeting Today
15:05:41 * joanie is sick
15:05:59 * clown makes some chicken soup for joanie
15:06:12 <joanie> #info We do not have a quorum for a variety of reasons. But the only two topics involve people here. So we're having a quick meeting anyway.
15:06:22 <joanie> #topic Outreach Program for Women
15:06:30 * joanie gives floor to clown
15:06:53 <clown> #info Joseph updated the a11y section of the OPW wiki page.
15:07:02 <clown> #info:  http://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove/Mentors#line-27
15:07:19 <joanie> thanks!!
15:07:24 <clown> #info Marina made minor edits, and suggested that the GSOC page also be updated
15:07:40 <clown> #info https://live.gnome.org/SummerOfCode2012/Ideas#line-71
15:07:57 <clown> #info and, the same was done for our (IDRC) local GSOC page
15:08:06 <clown> #info http://wiki.atutor.ca/display/atutorwiki/Google+Summer+of+Code+2012#GoogleSummerofCode2012-1.WAIARIAAutomatedTesting(GNOMEProject)
15:08:10 <clown> (done)
15:08:17 <clown> and you're welcome
15:09:19 <joanie> #info Seeing as how Joseph has been in touch with Marina, Piñeiro's "next step" of following up with Marina to inform her of these changes seems unnecessary.
15:09:22 <joanie> :)
15:09:34 <joanie> any questions from jjmarin about clown's report?
15:09:55 <jjmarin> that is awesome is not a question
15:10:00 <jjmarin> :-)
15:10:01 <joanie> :)
15:10:06 <clown> :-)
15:10:11 <joanie> mgorse: we're wrapping up discussion of the OWP
15:10:25 <clown> isn't it OPW?
15:10:30 <clown> or is it WOP?
15:10:31 <joanie> yeah
15:10:32 <mgorse> okay, thanks. Sorry for coming in late.
15:10:40 <joanie> I haven't gotten unsick in the past 5 minutes
15:11:04 <joanie> mgorse: no worries, but it's a two-topic, four person meeting
15:11:06 * joanie smiles
15:11:21 <joanie> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
15:11:26 * joanie gives floor to jjmarin
15:12:22 <jjmarin> #info We have added some info about some of the new a11y features in the GNOME 3.4 Release Notes
15:13:13 <jjmarin> #info and in the FoG a11y campaign, we don't have an update this week, but less than the half is left
15:14:09 <jjmarin> and Joanie and Karen gave an accessibility presentation in libreplanet conference, right ?
15:14:19 <joanie> yeah
15:14:24 <joanie> we were underprepared unfortunately
15:14:37 <joanie> and my car got towed *right* before the preso
15:14:40 <joanie> so we had to fetch it
15:14:49 <joanie> basically, we could have been way better than we were.
15:15:06 <joanie> and now, thanks to LibrePlanet, I have death flu
15:15:28 <joanie> #info Joanie gave a good presentation two weekends ago at Northeast GNU/Linux Fest.
15:15:31 <joanie> :)
15:15:41 <jjmarin> :-)
15:16:05 <joanie> Normally I give good presos
15:16:11 <jjmarin> thanks for your presentation in the Northeast GNU/Linux Fest and in FluPlanet :-)
15:16:13 <joanie> LibrePlanet is not my norm.
15:17:11 <jjmarin> they are general conferences and people are not very receptive maybe ?
15:17:16 <joanie> no
15:17:19 <joanie> that's not what I mean
15:17:27 <joanie> everyone was nice and interested
15:17:41 <joanie> I (Karen and I) were not sufficiently prepared
15:17:49 <joanie> slides got made mostly the night before
15:17:57 <joanie> were to be finished up at lunch
15:18:02 <joanie> my car got towed
15:18:03 <clown> and you're car got towed just before — that would break my concentration.
15:18:20 <joanie> we couldn't use the slides as subtle prompts because they were displayed above us
15:18:23 <joanie> bla bla bla
15:18:31 <joanie> I normally prepare presos weeks in advance
15:18:49 <joanie> 1 week in advance with all talking points committed to memory *at the latest*
15:19:08 <joanie> karen asked me to join her about a week before LibrePlanet
15:19:10 * joanie shrugs
15:20:00 <jjmarin> anywhere, even a suboptimal preso is good I think, and it's good enough under such circunstances :-)
15:20:08 <joanie> heh
15:20:17 <joanie> anyhoo, anything else on this front?
15:20:27 <jjmarin> so, no more marketing things
15:20:30 <jjmarin> yeah
15:20:34 <joanie> k thanks jjmarin!
15:20:47 <joanie> #topic Miscellaneous Time
15:20:57 <joanie> I've got one silly aside finishing the previous conversation
15:21:05 <clown> yes?
15:21:14 <jjmarin> hmm
15:21:25 <joanie> #info During LibrePlanet, Jonathan Nadeau (an Orca user) gave a presentation about Free Accessibility
15:21:49 <joanie> #info As part of his presentation, he presented MouseTrap as a good example of GNOME A11y.
15:22:07 <joanie> #info For the record, MouseTrap *was* cool, but was a student project and is now abandonware.
15:22:27 <clown> time to un-abandon it?
15:22:32 <joanie> #info Joanie chatted with Karen about what Joanie calls the "Google Summer of Code Problem."
15:22:42 <joanie> #info We seriously need to do something in this regard.
15:23:03 <joanie> clown: either that or mark it as such
15:23:09 <joanie> people search for stuff and find it
15:23:15 <joanie> an LWN writer did the same recently
15:23:44 <joanie> I might be able to turn these sorts of things into HFOSS projects
15:24:00 <joanie> but we need to get the maintainer(s)/author(s)/whatever(s) on board
15:24:09 <joanie> either to help or to bless it
15:24:21 <joanie> anyhoo, I'm done with misc stuff
15:24:29 * joanie yields the floor
15:24:34 <clown> I have one minor thing.
15:25:05 <clown> #info Joseph sent a proposal to the a11y list about removing some methods from the magnifier DBus interface.
15:25:21 <clown> #info specifically methods that are inconsistent with the relevant GSettings.
15:25:36 <clown> #info http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2012-March/msg00026.html
15:26:06 <clown> #info was asking if anyone objected to the proposed approach.
15:26:37 <clown> #info Joseph got one reponse that was not posted to the list, and it was a minor objection.
15:26:47 * clown looks up bugzilla
15:27:01 <clown> #info https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=669192
15:27:01 <tota11y> 04Bug 669192: minor, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, D-Bus: org.gnome.Magnifier.setActive incomplete.
15:27:22 <clown> #info Joseph is inclined to proceed since no real objections.
15:27:31 <clown> opens floor to discussion
15:28:32 <joanie> So what happens if we want to move to a desktop-environment-independent world?
15:28:44 <joanie> are there any implications?
15:28:56 <joanie> (if not, I'm fine with it but perhaps API should also weigh in)
15:29:18 <clown> maybe…  If GSettings is not on that deskop, then you can't set any of your magnifier preferences.
15:29:22 <clown> I think....
15:29:43 <joanie> so I wonder if the thing to do is bring the dbus settings in line with your existing settings
15:30:04 <clown> I actually mentioned that scenario to a co-worker, and he suggested that GSettings should be port that that desktop as the solution :-_
15:30:06 <jjmarin> I don't understand why we should support two ways of changing the settings. It's not only one good enough ?
15:30:27 <joanie> jjmarin: what about other desktop environments?
15:30:42 <clown> joanie:  I think it's misleading to call them "dbus settings".  It's just an interface/method.
15:30:54 <joanie> sorry clown. so noted
15:31:01 <joanie> anyway
15:31:07 <clown> rather, settings are settings, Dbus is interprocess communication.
15:32:03 <joanie> my point is, rather than removing some methods from the interface because they are inconsistent with the relevant GSettings, would it make sense to modify the methods to make them consistent with the relevant GSettings?
15:32:44 <clown> yes, another possiibililty is to leave the methods in Dbus, and the specific GS-mag implementation turns around and call GSettings.
15:33:16 <clown> and that's okay since if you have GS, you must have GSettings.
15:33:28 * joanie nods
15:33:40 <clown> and, how the Dbus method is implemented is a black box.
15:33:48 * joanie nods
15:34:15 <clown> actually, I think it might go deeper in terms of turning on the magnifier — the JS code should make sure the state of the mag is consistent with the GSetting.
15:35:09 <clown> however, the bug reporter thinks the above solution is the worst possible:  "3. Bind the DBus setting to the gsettings setting. *worse*"
15:35:19 <joanie> i saw that
15:35:45 <joanie> but I still am looking for the cross-desktop a11y future
15:36:00 <joanie> if the proposed change is not relevant to that, fine
15:36:25 <joanie> but if down the road there is some sort of global mag framework (or whatever you wish to call it) that exists at the freedesktop level
15:36:35 <clown> yes, all the preferences work done at ISO, and IMS, and the Cloud4All are using *preferences* to configure things, and ignoring interprocess communication.
15:37:24 <clown> specifically coming out of the Cloud4All work is a desire for a common x-platform preferences system.
15:37:31 <joanie> yay
15:37:42 <clown> and, they like GSettings.
15:38:10 <joanie> rather than have a more desktop-agnostic one?
15:38:13 <clown> beats the Windows registry, and is better than what Mac uses.  (I haven't seen any comments about KDE).
15:38:35 <clown> they like the architecture of GSettings is probably the best way to put it.
15:38:43 <joanie> :)
15:38:47 <clown> set/get and event/listener based.
15:39:40 <clown> they really like the live-update feature:  change a setting, and the app immediately shows the new setting.
15:40:14 <jjmarin> +1
15:40:42 <clown> anyhow, you've swung me back to not removing the Dbus methods, but fixing either the implementation or the mag itself to make it consistent.
15:41:05 * clown wonders why he's gone around in circles like this for 3 years now...
15:41:12 <joanie> :)
15:41:41 <joanie> now that I'm out of the magnification business, I totally defer to you. I was merely wondering about the implications long term. bla bla bla.
15:41:56 <clown> but I think I will wait until API weighs in (if he does).
15:42:01 <joanie> ping him
15:42:15 <clown> will do.
15:42:18 <joanie> thanks
15:42:36 <joanie> so.... anything else?
15:42:39 <clown> #action Joseph to consult with API and magnifier DBus vs Gsettings issue.
15:42:57 <clown> s/with API and/with API about/
15:43:04 <clown> (done).
15:44:02 * joanie raises the gavel
15:44:08 <joanie> going once....
15:44:12 * clown hides his fingers
15:44:17 <joanie> going twice.....
15:44:32 <joanie> #endmeeting