15:08:29 <joanie> #startmeeting
15:08:29 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Mar 22 15:08:29 2012 UTC.  The chair is joanie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:08:29 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:08:41 <joanie> #topic Outreach Program for Women
15:09:01 <joanie> #info Last meeting the decision was made to reorganize the OWP a11y team section.
15:09:20 <joanie> #info But the conclusion was to decide during next meeting (which is now this meeting) who would do so.
15:09:37 <joanie> #info Joseph is the one with the project. So how shall we proceed?
15:09:43 * joanie yields floor
15:09:59 <clown> what's the url to the "OWP a11y team section"?
15:10:07 <joanie> lemme look
15:10:37 <joanie> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove/Mentors
15:10:52 * clown looks
15:11:11 <joanie> I am thinking what we want is to emphasize your current project, but leave the generic details there too
15:11:29 <joanie> that way, each year, we can remove specifics and be ready
15:11:42 <clown> yeah, it's kind of a sub-heading of the main 'Accessibility" heading.
15:12:05 * joanie nods
15:12:32 <clown> Interesting that the other headings are "apps" like "Epiphany".  Wherease "Accessibility" covers everthing...
15:12:40 * joanie nods again
15:12:53 <joanie> although there's Getting things GNOME!
15:12:59 <joanie> oops that's an app
15:13:07 <joanie> anyhoo
15:13:30 <clown> maybe "module" is better than "app"
15:13:31 <joanie> Joseph, since this is your project and you'd be the mentor
15:13:50 <joanie> would you be willing to update the page to reflect your project?
15:14:31 <clown> How about this:  I'd add a bullet that says:  Projects under the a11y category include:
15:14:43 <clown> and then a sub-heading/link to my project.
15:14:45 <mgorse> Ugh. Sorry for being late--I forgot all about the meeting.
15:15:00 <clown> That way, if there are any others the come up, they can be added too.
15:15:02 <joanie> mgorse: no worries. we started with the OWP since clown is doing that.
15:15:13 <joanie> clown: how about a slight tweak
15:15:27 <joanie> something that reflects active owp/gsoc possibilities
15:15:28 <clown> yes?
15:15:40 <joanie> because the projects include orca and at-spi and accerciser and ....
15:16:02 <joanie> and as discussed a couple of meetings ago, some of those might not be appropriate for an owp candidate
15:16:59 <clown> so, what would "reflect active owp/gsoc possibilities"?
15:17:17 <joanie> hmmmm
15:17:30 <clown> any suggested verbiage would be appreciated.
15:17:34 <joanie> yeah
15:17:36 <joanie> it's not easy
15:17:38 <joanie> give me a sec
15:18:04 <joanie> or five
15:18:05 <joanie> lol
15:18:17 <joanie> "current opportunities to contribute"?
15:18:24 <clown> I'll give you 5 min, if you want :-)
15:18:26 <joanie> or something to that effect
15:18:29 <joanie> heh
15:18:59 * clown mulls that over
15:19:14 <joanie> or whatever distinguishes generic a11y
15:19:19 <joanie> and all a11y projects
15:19:24 <joanie> from "thing we can mentor now"
15:20:16 <joanie> anyhoo, we don't need the language *right now*
15:20:29 <joanie> so can we task you clown with this and then sort it out?
15:20:48 <clown> Yeah, okay.  I'll take the action (since it sounds like a few bullets of text), and do it by end of week.
15:20:56 <joanie> yay! thanks!!
15:21:26 <joanie> #action Joseph will update the a11y team section of the OPW/GSOC.
15:21:31 <joanie> moving on?
15:21:33 * clown yah beat me
15:21:37 <joanie> heh
15:21:55 <joanie> #topic GNOME 3.4 - Are we all set?
15:22:16 <clown> whoops sorry one last isseu on the last topic, if I may.
15:22:38 <joanie> #topic Outreach Program for Women
15:23:27 <clown> the end of the mentoring time period is sometime in August.  I'm away for most fo that month. So,  a little concerned about the mentor suddenly disappearing at the end of it.
15:23:40 <clown> is that a big deal?
15:23:49 <joanie> if we have guidelines to follow, the team can help out
15:24:04 <clown> okay, that's good to know.
15:24:10 <joanie> if we there are a lot of doubts from us about what you'd want/expect, it's a big deal
15:24:20 <joanie> if you give us a plan, it's not a big deal
15:25:14 <clown> actually, since I think most of the work will be with respect to Acceciser, I'll already depend on those developers.
15:25:32 * joanie nods
15:25:33 <clown> but, that's part of the plan, (to be witten).
15:25:38 <joanie> yeah
15:25:47 <clown> okay, that satisfies my last issue.
15:25:48 <joanie> takes a village to raise an intern
15:25:55 <joanie> cool
15:25:59 <joanie> thanks again
15:26:07 <joanie> #topic GNOME 3.4 - Are we all set?
15:26:09 <clown> wlcm
15:26:16 <joanie> #info This is just a quick check to be sure that we're good to go, don't have any surprises, etc.
15:26:34 <joanie> #info as far as Joanie is aware, everything is fine w.r.t. Orca and its users
15:26:43 * joanie yields floor to mgorse
15:26:51 <joanie> how's at-spi2?
15:27:53 <mgorse> There's still a problem with actions according to nagappan. I need to try setting up ldtp on ubuntu to see if I can reproduce it there. If there's an AT-SPI bug, then I don' tknow if fixing that would justify a freeze break or not
15:28:09 <joanie> what sort of problem?
15:28:38 <mgorse> Calling doAction might time out and say that the process is hung, if it brings up a dialog
15:28:56 <joanie> ah
15:29:24 <joanie> LDTP is, of course, really important. But given code freeze, I have to ask.... Does this impact end users with disabilities?
15:30:27 <mgorse> I don't know that it would affect Orca. As I said, if a fix is needed, I'm not sure if it justifies breaking code freeze or not, or if a fix in 2.4.1 would be sufficient
15:30:38 <joanie> well that's what I'm getting at
15:31:00 <joanie> if this turns out to break accessibility for end users of ATs then it might be code-freeze worthy
15:31:19 <mgorse> right
15:31:20 <joanie> if instead it breaks LDTP, I think we owe Naggapan an apology and we don't ask for freeze break
15:31:38 <joanie> so how about this (which I shall info)
15:32:03 <joanie> #info There is a possible issue in AT-SPI2 with actions, according to Nagappan.
15:32:11 <joanie> #info Mike will investigate it.
15:32:36 <mgorse> ok
15:32:36 <joanie> #info We will determine if it is worthy of a code-freeze break request once Mike knows the scope of the problem.
15:32:51 <joanie> anything to add mgorse?
15:33:20 <mgorse> don't think so
15:33:28 <joanie> cool beans. Thanks for the update!
15:33:41 <joanie> clown: you all set w.r.t. 3.4?
15:34:03 <clown> with respect to zoom options dialog:
15:34:12 <clown> #info Joseph wrote the release notes for the zoom options universal access panel
15:34:20 <clown> #info jjmarin incorporated them.
15:34:29 <clown> with respect to brightness/contrast
15:34:42 <clown> #info Joseph uploade patch to GNOME Shell incorporating the effect.
15:35:02 <clown> #info but, it still suffers from a undesired transparency side effect.
15:35:23 <joanie> so this is not breakage in 3.3.92
15:35:24 <clown> #info Joseph is trying to debug, and has traced it back to somewhere inside clutter
15:35:39 <clown> #info and it looks like *all* clutter effects show this problem.
15:36:00 <joanie> oh, so it is breakage in 3.3.92?
15:36:02 <clown> #info Joseph has just finished some demo test code to show the problem just using Clutter
15:36:20 <clown> #info and needs to confirm his test code is valid.
15:36:41 <clown> #info if he does, then he will be contacting ebassi to discuss.
15:36:57 <clown> #info i.e. it's possilbe this is a general bug in clutter.
15:37:05 <clown> (done)
15:37:32 <joanie> so in terms of 3.4 going out the door, and end users: do we have a 3.4 problem and possible need to request freeze break?
15:37:39 <clown> s/possilbe/likely/
15:38:09 <clown> there are two ways to parse that question:
15:38:35 <clown> 1.  is there an a11y issue?  No, it means the effect will not be included in gs-mag for 3.4 (it doesn't work).
15:38:50 <clown> 2.  is there a general clutter effects issue?  Yes.
15:39:10 <joanie> okay, so in light of that....
15:39:10 <clown> does that mean that clutter is not released until the problem is fixed?
15:39:58 <joanie> follow-up question: If the clutter devs get a code freeze break for this issue, what is the likelihood of it breaking something for magnification users?
15:40:50 <joanie> in other words, at this stage in the game, my concern is: Will 3.4 go out the door with a potentially accessibility breakage which we might could fix/prevent now?
15:40:53 <clown> it won't break anything since the current magnifier doesn't do it.  It isn't a regression, It's a lack of a new feature.
15:41:01 <joanie> ok
15:41:03 <clown> or a delay in the release of that feature.
15:41:08 <joanie> that makes it a 3.6 problem
15:41:36 <joanie> (not any less of a problem; merely something we cannot deal with this week or next)
15:41:38 <clown> right.  but, outside a11y, if people are using clutter effect elsewhere, and they make things transparent, that isn't good...
15:41:45 <joanie> deal with == fix in time for release
15:41:58 <joanie> oh, yeah, I get the isn't good bit :)
15:42:11 <joanie> but we have our hands beyond full with just a11y
15:42:37 <clown> on the other, if it turns out that I'm doing something trivially wrong, then maybe the fix is easy, and b/c could be included in 3.4
15:42:49 * clown is ever hopeful
15:42:56 <joanie> :)
15:43:27 <clown> so, any more info's needed here?
15:43:32 <joanie> okay, so anything else from anyone else about 3.4, code freeze, and breakage?
15:43:39 <joanie> clown: I don't think so
15:43:48 * clown yields the conch
15:43:49 <joanie> this was just meant to be a sanity check thing
15:44:02 * joanie hates surprises
15:45:02 <joanie> okay, I'll take the silence to mean it's time to move on
15:45:15 <joanie> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
15:45:31 <joanie> #info Juanjo isn't present and Joanie has not seen any report from him.
15:45:55 <joanie> #info Release notes were drafted by the team, submitted by Juanjo, reworded by Allan Day.
15:46:33 <joanie> #info Joanie has not been following the day-to-day chances of the FoG campaign, but according to www.gnome.org:  Friends of GNOME
15:46:36 <joanie> $10,631 - $9,369 to go
15:46:47 <joanie> I bet that won't get info'ed
15:46:55 <joanie> #info $10,631 - $9,369 to go
15:47:09 <joanie> anything else marketing and fundraising wize?
15:47:13 * joanie yields floor
15:48:34 * joanie assumes that means no
15:48:43 <joanie> #topic Miscellaneous Time
15:48:49 * joanie re-yields floor
15:51:22 <joanie> I knew it would be a short meeting.
15:51:41 <clown> well, off by only 10 min
15:51:51 * joanie raises gavel and looks for fingers
15:52:01 <joanie> #endmeeting