Attachment '20120315_log.txt'
Download 1 15:11:52 <API> #startmeeting
2 15:11:52 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Mar 15 15:11:52 2012 UTC. The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
3 15:11:52 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
4 15:12:02 <API> #topic GNOME 3.4 Updates
5 15:12:10 <API> I claim my turn
6 15:12:24 <API> #info some ATK related patches were committed on GNOME Shell
7 15:12:33 <API> #info some others were reviewed and updated
8 15:12:59 <API> #info not sure if we would get all of them committed by this Monday
9 15:13:16 <API> #info probably ping dan winship on florian mullner about that
10 15:13:29 * API hopes to have written florian surname properly
11 15:13:30 <API> done
12 15:13:36 <API> next one?
13 15:13:40 <API> clown, mgorse joanie
14 15:13:46 <API> who wants to claim the meeting scepter?
15 15:13:52 <clown> i'll take it.
16 15:14:16 <clown> #info uploaded patch to GNOME Shell that integrates the Clutter brightness/contrast effect.
17 15:14:34 <clown> #info noted that it doesn't work, and conditions where it does work.
18 15:14:43 * clown get's url
19 15:15:03 <clown> #info https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=639851#c21
20 15:15:03 <tota11y> 04Bug 639851: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Magnifier: Add brightness and contrast functionality.
21 15:15:25 <clown> #info and updated the "current status" on the featurs page — http://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/Features/LightnessBrightnessContrastEffects#Current_Status
22 15:15:44 <clown> #info note that the relevant gesttings schema is marked for commitment.
23 15:15:58 <clown> done, questions?
24 15:16:16 <API> so possibilities to be integrated on 3.4
25 15:16:17 <API> ?
26 15:16:23 <API> I guess that for this monday will be complex
27 15:16:35 <API> so it would require a eventual code breeze break request
28 15:16:55 <clown> well, not unless the effect actually works in GNOME Shell. And I'm still working on daignosing why.
29 15:17:13 <clown> that is, I wouldn't commit it in this state.
30 15:18:04 <API> well,
31 15:18:16 <API> in this case I guess that likely
32 15:18:19 <API> will be move to 3.6
33 15:18:26 <API> although lets not move it until then
34 15:18:33 <API> s/then/next meeting
35 15:18:49 <clown> makes sense.
36 15:18:53 <API> anything else? clown ? more questions from others?
37 15:19:09 <clown> not from me.
38 15:19:14 <jjmarin> a second
39 15:19:41 <API> jjmarin, ?
40 15:20:03 <jjmarin> so when we have a definitive answer about the inclusion in gnome 3.4
41 15:20:15 <jjmarin> My question is because the release notes
42 15:20:59 <jjmarin> we are asked to write the a11y release notes asap
43 15:21:13 <API> jjmarin, well we need to start some kind of draft
44 15:21:21 <API> so we can start with the list of things
45 15:21:24 <API> that we have
46 15:21:25 <clown> jjmarin: the release notes have a bullet under Clutter for the b/c effect. But not as a function of the magnifier.
47 15:21:28 <jjmarin> in fact they want to have it for the beginning of the next week
48 15:21:51 <clown> and, that effect is part of Clutter.
49 15:21:57 <API> jjmarin, well, they want that because next monday is next freeze
50 15:22:17 <API> in my case, for the ATK stuff on gnome-shell, and as release-notes should not be really long
51 15:22:25 <API> I will make a general line
52 15:22:34 <joanie> and I'll write up something for Orca
53 15:22:43 <joanie> but not until after code freeze
54 15:23:05 <jjmarin> clown: ok, at least we have a configuration menu for the magnifier ;-)
55 15:23:14 <clown> I went to add something about the mag prefs dialog, but someone had already added it.
56 15:23:19 <clown> right jjmarin
57 15:23:55 <API> well, we can provide something for all
58 15:24:00 <API> and also a section with "pending final commit"
59 15:24:03 <API> having said so
60 15:24:16 <clown> I guess I'll add the b/c effect in GNOME Shell to the "plans for 3.6" section after the code freeze. And the focus/caret-tracking.
61 15:24:18 <API> IMHO, at this moment we should focus on getting things integrated
62 15:24:25 <joanie> +1 API
63 15:24:30 <API> clown, yes that makes sense
64 15:24:38 <API> if in the end we are lucky and brightness
65 15:24:42 <API> is integrated on 3.4
66 15:24:51 <API> we can move that 3.6 item to 3.4
67 15:25:17 <jjmarin> ok. I'll ask where we have all the bits for the release notes to show to the marjeting team
68 15:25:36 <jjmarin> sorry for the interruption. we can move on
69 15:26:11 <API> joanie, ?
70 15:26:29 <joanie> #info Joanie is continuing to work on small, safe fixes for Orca and testing with gnome-shell
71 15:26:37 <joanie> (done)
72 15:27:21 <API> mgorse, ?
73 15:28:28 <mgorse> #info mgorse fixed a regression introduced with a recent glib that was making gnome-shell not be accessible, and also tried to fix a "bug" where keystrokes intended for Orca are sometimes being passed through to the application., and is also concerned that Evolution still isn't usable.
74 15:28:30 <mgorse> done
75 15:28:47 <joanie> evolution is a disaster a11y wize :(
76 15:28:56 <joanie> but way to go on the glib fix
77 15:29:01 <joanie> and thanks!
78 15:29:20 <joanie> I do have a question though
79 15:29:40 <joanie> since you put "bug" in quotes, is this something I should be trying to handle somehow within Orca?
80 15:30:03 <API> mgorse, but this evolution thing is something related with at-spi2 changes?
81 15:30:07 <API> or a general disaster?
82 15:30:26 <joanie> I think it's their custom atk implementation
83 15:30:33 <mgorse> joanie: I don't think so. Sorry.
84 15:31:17 <joanie> you don't think it's something for me to handle in Orca (keystrokes) or you don't think the evolution problems are their custom atk implementation?
85 15:31:28 <mgorse> yeah; it used to be normal for apps to get the gail type through the atk factory, and that doesn't work anymore after the GAIL refactor
86 15:31:40 <mgorse> (I have a patch which I thought should help in theory, but it doesn't seem to)
87 15:32:33 <mgorse> joanie: I don't know how much Orca can do to handle it, although maybe there's some way to handle it that I'm not thinking of
88 15:32:55 * joanie nods
89 15:32:56 <joanie> ok
90 15:33:03 <API> about the factories thing
91 15:33:10 <API> strange, as Benjamin refactor
92 15:33:16 <API> still kept the factories there
93 15:33:22 <API> anyway, somewhat offtopic now
94 15:33:33 <API> so anyone else want to add something to 3.4 updates?
95 15:33:39 <API> comments? doubts? questions?
96 15:33:41 <mgorse> Ideally I guess Orca would somehow tell X which key combinations it needed and grab them, but I guess that would take some investigation, etc
97 15:34:19 <joanie> we do set the xmodmap
98 15:34:31 <joanie> but maybe we can discuss this more outside the meeting
99 15:35:32 <API> I will take that as a "move on"
100 15:35:35 <API> #topic Outreach Program for Women
101 15:35:49 <API> clown, ?
102 15:36:19 <clown> #info Joseph wrote a draft of a proposal for automated ARIA testing.
103 15:36:32 <clown> #info http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/AriaAutomatedTesting
104 15:37:15 <clown> # info I also attempted to break it down into sub-tasks so that there is something a student could take on.
105 15:37:22 <clown> oops.
106 15:37:31 <clown> #info I also attempted to break it down into sub-tasks so that there is something a student could take on.
107 15:37:36 <joanie> :)
108 15:37:53 * clown wonders what the next steps are
109 15:37:54 <API> clown, ok thanks
110 15:38:03 <API> yes, this is the same I wanted to talk about
111 15:38:06 <API> during these weeks
112 15:38:14 <API> joanie and me were contacted by students
113 15:38:22 <API> interested on this
114 15:38:24 <API> so
115 15:38:33 <API> should we tell them (an Marina)
116 15:38:41 <API> that during weekly meeting we talked about that
117 15:38:45 <joanie> we could add a link to the page
118 15:38:45 <API> and defined that project?
119 15:38:53 <API> and put in contact with you?
120 15:39:03 <clown> sure
121 15:39:37 <joanie> I'm thinking that on http://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove/Mentors it could be added
122 15:39:46 * clown looks
123 15:40:01 <API> ok, so, what about this
124 15:40:06 <API> 1. send a mail to marina
125 15:40:19 <API> "we were talking about GSOW during meeting bla bla
126 15:40:33 <API> what about adding a link to that project, and Joseph as mentor
127 15:40:42 <API> what we should do with students that put in contact with us"
128 15:40:48 <API> 2. depends on Marina answer
129 15:40:53 <joanie> or
130 15:41:06 <joanie> we could break the current a11y team section up
131 15:41:13 <joanie> into a bullet called general
132 15:41:22 <joanie> and further indent ourselves under that
133 15:41:30 <joanie> because I think marina wants to keep us there
134 15:41:40 <joanie> and a new bullet called <whatever joseph wants>
135 15:41:45 <clown> or both (an email, and re-org of mentors page).
136 15:41:47 <joanie> with sub-bullets
137 15:42:01 <joanie> i.e. we do not need to ask permission
138 15:42:16 <joanie> but if you want to email Marina, sure
139 15:42:45 <API> well, she coordinates that stuff
140 15:42:56 <API> but we can reorder that
141 15:42:58 <joanie> Mentors, please read the information for mentors before adding yourself and your project to this page.
142 15:42:59 <API> as it is the a11y stuff
143 15:43:03 <API> and tell marina
144 15:43:11 <clown> good point, joanie
145 15:43:12 <API> "marina, we were doing this this and this"
146 15:43:17 <joanie> the above text was written by Marina
147 15:43:27 <joanie> she wants you to read the info for mentors
148 15:43:28 <jjmarin> We have "posted opportunities." section in out live page
149 15:43:32 <joanie> and suggests we add ourselves
150 15:44:13 <jjmarin> s/our/out/
151 15:44:42 <jjmarin> we can add a link to the aria project there
152 15:45:11 <API> poster opportunities?
153 15:45:11 <joanie> posted opportunities are contracts
154 15:45:12 <API> jjmarin, url?
155 15:45:20 <API> yes I have the same feeling
156 15:45:28 <joanie> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Opportunities
157 15:45:30 <API> just wanted to check it
158 15:45:34 <joanie> since I wrote the page
159 15:45:40 <joanie> I can tell you your feeling is correct
160 15:45:50 <API> yes, I agree with joanie
161 15:46:03 <API> this is not the place for a GSOW project definition
162 15:46:06 <API> imho
163 15:46:16 <joanie> yeah
164 15:46:30 <joanie> anyway, let's just decide and move on?
165 15:46:35 <jjmarin> ok, I didn't know the exact meaning of poster :-)
166 15:46:47 <API> yes
167 15:46:49 <API> so in summary
168 15:46:58 <API> #action reorganize GSOW section about a11y
169 15:47:09 <joanie> needs and assignee
170 15:47:14 <joanie> s/and/an/
171 15:47:20 <API> #action API send a mail to Marina after that, we will ask her what to do with students that contacted us
172 15:47:59 <API> well, this week we will bery busy with code freezes
173 15:47:59 <API> oops
174 15:48:04 <API> s/bery/very
175 15:48:21 <API> so, could we set a GSOW reorganization on next week meeting?
176 15:48:23 * joanie nods
177 15:49:28 <API> #info on next weekly meeting we will decide who will do the reorganization
178 15:49:30 <API> so moving
179 15:49:40 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
180 15:49:41 <API> jjmarin, ?
181 15:50:01 <jjmarin> No new info this week
182 15:50:19 <jjmarin> the main topic is the release notes
183 15:50:51 <API> jjmarin, could you give us some deadlines?
184 15:50:53 <jjmarin> We need to organize the process to get all the release notes :-)
185 15:51:01 <API> I mean that I'm not sure when all the stuff needs to be done
186 15:51:06 <API> and when it will be published
187 15:51:09 <jjmarin> they want to have for tomorrow
188 15:51:21 <joanie> I want to be rich
189 15:51:22 <jjmarin> but it's unrealistic
190 15:51:28 <joanie> :)
191 15:51:33 <API> well, I know that they want to frighten people
192 15:51:36 <API> to get things done
193 15:51:43 <jjmarin> I think we can get early next week
194 15:51:46 <API> but having the release-notes before the real releases
195 15:51:51 <API> is just unrealistic by design
196 15:52:21 <clown> it's unrealistic on purpose?
197 15:52:24 <joanie> <rant>Release notes should be written after code freeze. Prior to that, poking developers who are scrambling is just plain mean and won't get results.</rant>
198 15:52:25 <clown> -)
199 15:52:31 <API> clown, well, it is just my opinion ;)
200 15:52:32 <jjmarin> yes, but they want to translate and show to the press even before to release
201 15:52:49 <API> jjmarin, well, as you are the marketing volunteer ;)
202 15:53:02 <API> what about if any of us send to you the release notes of his own module
203 15:53:07 <API> or own work
204 15:53:18 <API> if you prefer we can go directly to the release notes wiki
205 15:53:20 * API searching
206 15:53:37 <API> https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/ReleaseNotes
207 15:53:53 <clown> According to Andre's email, they don't want full release notes on that wiki page (let me confirm that).
208 15:54:47 <clown> actually that's on the page itself:
209 15:54:57 <clown> "Please note that this does not need to be pretty. It's just a list that will be used to make the actual release notes."
210 15:55:30 <clown> so: where to put the actual release notes? and who writes them?
211 15:55:39 <jjmarin> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2012-March/msg00022.html
212 15:56:08 <clown> thanks jjmarin
213 15:57:12 <API> so jjmarin what do you think about my "lets send jjmarin mails"?
214 15:57:17 <API> is too much for your plate?
215 15:57:33 <joanie> or perhaps start a draft page on the wiki
216 15:57:35 <jjmarin> anyway. For me it's ok to add in a wiki or emails and I'll put in th right place http://git.gnome.org/browse/release-notes/tree/help/C/rna11y.xml?h=gnome-3-4
217 15:57:38 <clown> of course, I can't actually look at the meat, since it is password protected: http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.4/
218 15:57:43 <joanie> like we do for quarterlies?
219 15:57:48 <API> joanie, well, I like that idea
220 15:59:05 <joanie> so looking here:
221 15:59:13 * joanie waits for page to load
222 15:59:26 <joanie> http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ReleaseNotes
223 15:59:39 <joanie> it even looks like we have a planning page
224 16:00:03 <joanie> so jjmarin why not make the planning page for 3.4
225 16:00:09 <joanie> and we can add stuff?
226 16:00:11 <joanie> (next week)
227 16:00:37 <jjmarin> https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ReleaseNotes/ThreePointFour
228 16:00:51 <joanie> yup
229 16:00:58 <API> soo o
230 16:01:02 <jjmarin> people who has
231 16:01:11 <API> #action everybody, start to fill https://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/ReleaseNotes/ThreePointFour ASAP
232 16:01:28 <jjmarin> thanks API for the action
233 16:01:35 <jjmarin> the sooner the better
234 16:01:46 <joanie> after code freeze
235 16:01:47 <joanie> ;)
236 16:01:58 <API> ok, so as we already over meeting time
237 16:02:03 <jjmarin> when is code freeze
238 16:02:03 <API> lets move quick
239 16:02:05 <jjmarin> ?
240 16:02:07 <joanie> monday
241 16:02:10 <API> jjmarin, this monday
242 16:02:15 <jjmarin> ok
243 16:02:17 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
244 16:02:30 <API> someone wants to add something not-scheduled and short?
245 16:02:43 <API> "something" can be also a question
246 16:02:53 <joanie> I'm not scheduled and I am short
247 16:03:38 <jjmarin> which new feature can have a screenshot in the release news. AFAIK, magnifier menu and high contrast theme
248 16:03:40 <jjmarin> ?
249 16:04:00 * clown looks for mag prefs screen shot
250 16:04:38 <API> jjmarin, yes I think so
251 16:04:40 <API> as other improvements
252 16:04:44 <clown> jjmarin, http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Magnification/ZoomOptionsDialog?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ZoomOptionsDialog.png
253 16:04:52 <API> like stability or more ATK support on GNOME Shell
254 16:04:59 <clown> would that do?
255 16:05:04 <API> are not really "screenshotable"
256 16:05:43 <jjmarin> well, I can add and someone will remove if not fashionable enough :-)
257 16:06:15 * joanie smiles quietly to herself
258 16:06:34 * clown can hear joanie smiling to herself
259 16:07:23 <jjmarin> anyway I know mag users will love it eve if not "screenshotable" enough
260 16:08:01 <API> ok
261 16:08:09 <API> I think that this is enough for today
262 16:08:13 <API> thanks to be here
263 16:08:18 <API> see you soon in #a11y
264 16:08:21 <API> #endmeeting
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