15:08:12 <joanie> #startmeeting
15:08:12 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Mar  1 15:08:12 2012 UTC.  The chair is joanie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:08:12 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:08:24 <joanie> #topic Outreach Program for Women
15:08:46 <joanie> #info Marina a while back added our team to the list of ongoing mentors
15:09:21 <joanie> #info Marina also has a specific page on "info for mentors" in which she specifically addresses the case of what to do when you don't have availability.
15:09:46 <joanie> #info Joanie's personal translation of these documents is that even when we are busy, we are supposed to remain on the mentor list. ;)
15:10:09 <joanie> #info We are now starting to hear from would-be Outreach Program interns.
15:10:36 <joanie> #info Joanie would like to know which team members can serve as mentors and have a requisite "pre-participation contribution" to offer.
15:10:44 * joanie yields the floor
15:11:21 * joanie hums a tune
15:11:36 <aleiva> umh, how much time it will need?
15:11:47 <joanie> mentor time or student/intern time?
15:11:55 <aleiva> mentor time
15:12:06 <joanie> Depends on if you get an independent student or not.
15:12:27 <joanie> In the case of Aline, things worked out nicely. She showed up even though we were not on the mentor list.
15:12:32 <joanie> She had done her homework.
15:12:38 <joanie> She had a project to propose.
15:12:44 <mgorse> Does the document explain what kind of "pre-participation contribution" is required?
15:12:46 <joanie> She required very little mentoring.
15:12:46 <jjmarin> hi !
15:12:52 <joanie> hey jjmarin
15:13:01 <joanie> getting back to aleiva's question....
15:13:05 <jjmarin> who's she ?
15:13:28 <joanie> The two people I have heard from so far have shown up and basically said "hi! I'd like to participate. Assign me something."
15:13:38 <aleiva> ok
15:13:45 <joanie> so I am guessing that they are not going to be self-starters and WILL require time.
15:13:46 <mgorse> jjmarin: Aline. We're discussing the outreach program for women
15:13:56 <joanie> hence I am not volunteering to mentor
15:13:57 <jjmarin> ok, thanks !
15:14:09 <joanie> mgorse: to your question
15:14:18 <joanie> the pre-participation contribution is typically bug fixing
15:14:24 <joanie> for coders
15:14:35 <joanie> people can participate in other areas
15:14:39 <joanie> like documentation writing
15:14:41 <joanie> marketing, etc.
15:14:49 <aleiva> I would like but I feel I don't have enough time :-(
15:14:50 <joanie> but the two in question are CS students
15:14:54 <joanie> aleiva: me too
15:15:03 <joanie> and there is also cost-benefit analysis
15:15:14 <joanie> Aline was worth it. She's busy now, but she'll be back I think.
15:15:17 <aleiva> but I think that documentation of at-spi and creating of more examples would be a good thing
15:15:29 <aleiva> creation*
15:15:34 <mgorse> yeah, ideally I guess it's supposed to get people more involved in GNOME in the long term
15:15:43 <joanie> mgorse: exactly
15:16:01 <joanie> and the hard thing about accessibility (imho) is that you kinda need to know quite a bit
15:16:08 <aleiva> sure
15:16:09 <joanie> at least conceptually
15:16:13 <clown> yep
15:16:20 <joanie> if you don't know about the disability in question
15:16:20 <aleiva> it's a complex technology stack
15:16:31 <joanie> AND you don't know about toolkit and application development
15:16:39 <joanie> AND you don't know about accessibility support
15:16:52 <joanie> and the other thing worth stating imho
15:16:58 <joanie> is that these are paid internships
15:17:08 <joanie> in other words, the motivation is hopefully to get involved
15:17:14 <joanie> but there is a stipend
15:17:19 <joanie> of I think $5000
15:17:27 <joanie> if you are a student in a developing nation
15:17:34 <joanie> this is also a motivator
15:17:45 <joanie> so....
15:18:13 <joanie> I will ask officially for the sake of minutes..... (and answer for myself)
15:18:22 <jjmarin> wow+
15:18:55 <joanie> #info Joanie asked the team members present if they have the time to serve as mentors and if so if they have a proposed initial contribution and a proposed project task.
15:19:31 <joanie> #info Joanie herself feels that she does not have the time and is concerned that students with no knowledge about accessibility will be hard to place in the Orca project.
15:19:36 <joanie> everyone else?
15:20:20 <jjmarin> I agree with you. We need more human resources for having time to mentor
15:20:28 <joanie> jjmarin: info's please
15:21:08 <aleiva> #info aleiva suggest that gnome a11y group don't have enough time to achieve their goals neither to mentor students with no knowledge
15:21:09 <joanie> aleiva: mgorse clown ?
15:21:16 <jjmarin> Info Juanjo agrees we need more people to be able to mentoring and doing our stuff
15:21:25 <joanie> (#info)
15:21:40 <jjmarin> #Info Juanjo agrees we need more people to be able to mentoring and doing our stuff
15:21:49 <joanie> (thanks)
15:22:03 <jjmarin> :-)
15:22:17 <mgorse> #info Unit tests for AT-SPI might be a good project, but would need to come up with a proposed initial contribution
15:22:35 <joanie> that might be cool
15:23:00 <clown> #info Joseph feels that he doesn't have a lot of time either.
15:23:13 <joanie> mgorse: if we came up with such a proposed initial contribution, would you have time to supervise it
15:23:19 <clown> #info Since this is new to him, he wants to mull it over some more.
15:23:25 <clown> #info Especially in terms of a project.
15:23:29 * joanie nods
15:24:00 <joanie> okay so how about this:
15:24:00 <jjmarin> mgorse: yes, it sounds like a good project for new people.... I think
15:24:19 <mgorse> I think I could, at least
15:24:36 <joanie> #info Based on this discussion, we might be able to offer something in the area of AT-SPI unit tests and maybe magnification. BUT we do not yet know for sure.
15:24:54 <joanie> #action Joseph and Mike will each give this some careful consideration and get back to the team.
15:25:01 <joanie> fair enough?
15:25:06 <clown> fair.
15:25:08 <mgorse> ok
15:25:14 <joanie> and thank you guys
15:25:28 <joanie> for the record, I don't want to discourage; but I do want to be realistic and practical
15:25:38 <joanie> if another Aline shows up, I'll make time
15:25:52 <joanie> okay... moving on?
15:26:37 * joanie takes the silence as acceptance
15:26:43 <joanie> #topic GNOME 3.4 Updates
15:26:54 <joanie> #info Code freeze is the 19th
15:27:11 <joanie> #info Joanie and Piñeiro have been working on Orca + gnome-shell
15:27:34 <joanie> #info Piñeiro has done a number of patches, some have been committed; others are being reviewed by Dan W. (Yay!)
15:27:57 <joanie> #info Joanie hopes gnome-shell + Orca will actually work fairly nicely for 3.4 (also yay!)
15:28:03 * joanie yields the floor to everyone else
15:28:22 <clown> #info Joseph has been diagnosing the problem with integrating his Clutter shader effects into GNOME Shell.
15:28:23 <jjmarin> #info In gnome-themes-standard Cosimo Cecchi rewrote the high contrast theme, making it as decent as the GTK2 theme.
15:28:33 <clown> jjmarin:  go ahead.
15:28:50 <jjmarin> thanks
15:28:59 * joanie notes that she will re-arrange infos later for the minutes
15:29:11 <jjmarin> #info He mostly restored it to a good working state and made sure it works with the new widgets we have (e.g. inline toolbars in the control center, the new spinbuttons, ...)
15:29:25 <jjmarin> done :-), clown, please
15:29:33 <joanie> (oh yeah, new spinbuttons. didn't think about that one)
15:29:44 <clown> jjmarin:  okay.  restarting...
15:29:52 <clown> #info Joseph has been diagnosing the problem with integrating his Clutter shader effects into GNOME Shell.
15:29:58 <clown> #info discovered that the bug is actually in Clutter --
15:30:05 <clown> #info any shader applied to an actor makes it semi-transparent.
15:30:22 <clown> #info  even when you really don't want it to be transparent at all.
15:30:28 <joanie> (ugh)
15:30:36 <clown> #info worse, I somehow missed a comment on the bugzilla by Ebassi that said as much.
15:31:03 <clown> #info so, trying to find a work around, although maybe I need to become a cogl (open gl) expert...
15:31:56 <clown> also, there were some accerciser bugs I filed back in 2009 that Andre Klapper pointed out needed a review for a patch.
15:32:04 <clown> does that apply here (a 3.4 thing)?
15:32:09 <joanie> it can
15:32:17 <joanie> I'd like them in the minutes somewhere
15:32:26 <joanie> jhernandez said he'd be late
15:32:34 <joanie> so maybe misc time?
15:32:40 <clown> sure.
15:32:42 <joanie> k
15:32:46 <joanie> thanks
15:33:03 <joanie> mgorse: updates (info's) for at-spi2 3.4 progress?
15:33:03 <clown> no problem.  nothing else really on the 3.4 front from me, then.
15:34:15 <joanie> and after mgorse responds, aleiva any updates on your looking into the vte a11y bugs?
15:35:08 <aleiva> #info aleiva's finally have a dev environment and a debugging vte thing. He's trying to run faster to have it managed before code freeze deadline.
15:35:36 <mgorse> #info some AT-SPI bugs have been fixed recently. LDTP still has some issues that might not be delt with.
15:36:23 <joanie> does LDTP get impacted by code freeze?
15:36:38 <mgorse> #info and apps running as the super-user reportedly aren't accessible (although it works for me when I test). Need to investigate that.
15:37:17 <mgorse> I'm not sure off-hand. I'm guessing not for ldtp itself. If there's something in AT-SPI that needs to be fixed, then it's impacted
15:37:38 <mgorse> It's hosted on git.freedesktop.org
15:38:00 <joanie> ah
15:38:50 <joanie> and the super-user thing has always struck me as a comes-and-goes, distro-specific thing
15:39:08 <joanie> I have never gotten why it doesn't just always work and/or be broken for everyone
15:39:32 <joanie> anyhoo....
15:39:36 <mgorse> or it isn't working with whatever mechanism vmware is using
15:40:07 * joanie nods
15:40:13 <joanie> so.... anything else on this front?
15:40:31 <joanie> if not....
15:40:35 <joanie> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
15:40:43 <joanie> jjmarin?
15:40:50 <jjmarin> ok
15:41:05 <jjmarin> #info We've got around US $1400 more in the a11y FoG campaign  in the last two weeks
15:41:40 <jjmarin> #Info I've got the legal permission for another (short) testimonial. It will probably go to the FoG page
15:42:09 <jjmarin> and I don't remember more thing to say :-P
15:42:14 <joanie> question:
15:42:19 <jjmarin> yes
15:42:25 <joanie> On the legal permission: Has this been seen by Karen?
15:42:38 <joanie> i.e. to be sure that GNOME thinks we have the requisite permission?
15:42:47 <joanie> i.e. we ain't lawyers
15:42:48 <jjmarin> yes, I work with her
15:42:51 <joanie> good
15:42:52 <joanie> thank you
15:42:59 <jjmarin> :-)
15:43:00 <joanie> Karen is a lawyer I believe, in addition to being ED.
15:43:10 <jjmarin> yes, she's
15:43:15 <joanie> excellent
15:43:19 <joanie> that makes me feel better
15:43:40 <joanie> okay, so that's my only question.
15:43:42 <joanie> anyone else?
15:43:57 <jjmarin> And the legal risk seems to be low, if this make you feel even better :-)
15:44:20 <joanie> What makes me feel fine is knowing that we have done due diligence.
15:44:37 <joanie> If there ever is a problem, I want it to be Not Our Problem.
15:44:58 <jjmarin> yes, you're right
15:44:58 <joanie> we don't have time to mentor; we sure as heck don't have time for legal-related "oopses"
15:45:30 <joanie> so I am happy knowing that we've done all we are SupposedToDo(tm)
15:45:31 <joanie> ;)
15:45:42 <joanie> ok, still no javi, but....
15:45:49 <joanie> #topic Miscellaneous Time
15:45:54 <joanie> let's start with clown
15:46:06 <clown> #info Joseph did the barest minimum review of two of Aline's patches for Accerciser.
15:46:16 <clown> #info bug 596758 596757
15:46:16 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596758 normal, Normal, ---, accerciser-devel, UNCONFIRMED, Configure does not install ipython
15:46:29 <clown> #info The patches don't apply to the latest master code.
15:46:45 <clown> #info I'm considering trying to modify them so they work, but haven't found a spare moment so far.
15:46:59 <clown> #info Perhaps it's better if someone from the accerciser developers took a look.
15:47:02 <clown> (done)
15:47:05 * joanie nods
15:47:28 <joanie> aleiva: since you work with jhernandez, can you ping him the next time you see him about this?
15:47:48 * jjmarin thinks clown's progress on his patches are like soap-opera with several plots and characters :-P
15:47:54 <joanie> :)
15:48:22 <aleiva> joanie: sure
15:48:23 * clown wants to know what jjmarin's role is in this soap opera.  where does a singing zombie fit in?
15:48:44 <joanie> and misc time has just gotten misc ;)
15:49:34 <joanie> so, whilst we chat amongst ourselves, if anyone has real stuff to info that wasn't discussed earlier, please feel free
15:49:41 <joanie> the rest can sing, dance, etc.
15:49:41 <joanie> :)
15:50:54 <joanie> or we can just close the meeting
15:51:03 * joanie raises her gavel
15:51:12 * joanie looks around the table for fingers
15:51:33 <joanie> #endmeeting