1 15:07:21 <API> #startmeeting
   2 15:07:21 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Dec 15 15:07:21 2011 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
   3 15:07:21 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
   4 15:07:31 * clown what about Canuks?
   5 15:07:37 <API> #topic Release Team Meeting Update and Pings
   6 15:07:49 <API> #info release-team had a meeting this Monday
   7 15:08:05 <API> #info one of the things they requested is an update of the feature proposals
   8 15:08:24 <API> #info in summary, update this page: https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/Features
   9 15:08:58 <API> so clown I0m looking to you ;)
  10 15:09:00 <joanie> #info Joanie has been busy with Orca + WebKitGtk. But she hopes to resume working on Dots next week.
  11 15:09:06 <API> joanie, you could do the same
  12 15:09:18 <joanie> #info Joanie has already done most of the introspection work in her sandbox.
  13 15:09:22 <clown> what do I need to update, specifically, API?
  14 15:09:30 <API> I guess that an update is also saying the status at this week
  15 15:09:46 <API> Zoom Options Dialog (Universal Access)
  16 15:09:47 <clown> the "current status" sections?
  17 15:09:47 <API> things still discussing
  18 15:09:52 <API> yes
  19 15:10:02 <API> things still discussing, avoiding circles ;)
  20 15:10:16 <API> I saw your last comments on that bug
  21 15:10:18 <joanie> #action Joanie will update the status page for the Features at the beginning/middle of next week.
  22 15:10:29 <API> it would be good, imho, on that current status a date
  23 15:10:29 <API> but I was not asked so details
  24 15:10:41 <API> clown, Focus-caret tracking in GNOME Shell
  25 15:10:45 <API> mclasen asked on the bug if the work was started or not
  26 15:10:54 <API> so I guess that ths is also something to write down on the wiki
  27 15:11:02 <clown> #action Joseph will update the status of Zoom Options dialog, Focus-caret tracking, and Brightness and Contrast Functionality.
  28 15:11:24 <clown> yes, mclasen has posted to all the relevant bugzillas asking, "what's the status"?
  29 15:12:16 <API> and thats all
  30 15:12:29 <API> as Dasher thing was not approved as feature but as a app on moduleset
  31 15:12:32 <clown> there's not much different.  most of the work that I have done has been on the zoom options dialog.  A little research in the brightness/contrast.  Nothing in terms of focus tracking.
  32 15:12:38 <API> I think that all people were pinged
  33 15:13:11 <API> clown, ok, so just put that on the wiki
  34 15:13:42 <clown> also, wtih resepct to focus tracking, technically, I'm waiing on a grant approval.  Should that go in the wiki too?
  35 15:13:49 <clown> "waiting".
  36 15:13:59 <joanie> clown: I think so.
  37 15:14:08 <clown> cool.
  38 15:14:25 <API> clown, a fog grant approval or something  on your daily work?
  39 15:14:35 <clown> FoG, API.
  40 15:15:14 <clown> technically, my supervisor doesn't want me working on this without funding. (that doesn't mean I won't do it…)
  41 15:16:05 <joanie> is your supervisor Jutta (?sp)
  42 15:16:11 <clown> ultimately, yes.
  43 15:16:40 <clown> we are trying to get aegis europe to approve of the work.
  44 15:17:04 <clown> that way, we can justify the work under the current aegis grant I am working on.
  45 15:17:20 <clown> but, having FoG come thru would make things much simpler.
  46 15:17:48 <API> clown, but longer
  47 15:18:00 <API> I mean that we needed to change the idea of proposing projects and then asking
  48 15:18:11 <API> a fog
  49 15:18:14 <API> to make a fog more general and then define projects
  50 15:18:35 <API> and this is process is becoming more slow that ideally
  51 15:19:06 * clown notes that aegis europe moves at glacial speeds.
  52 15:19:15 <API> anyway, I think that this is somewhat off-topic right now
  53 15:19:34 <API> :P
  54 15:19:35 <clown> however, I'm pretty sure Peter Korn approves of the work, and that might speed things up.
  55 15:19:40 <API> so I will just move on
  56 15:19:44 <clown> sure.
  57 15:19:49 <API> clown, ok thanks
  58 15:20:01 <API> speed things up seems good
  59 15:20:14 <API> #topic FOSDEM
  60 15:20:42 <API> #info FOSDEM is coming
  61 15:20:53 <API> #info last year we had a specific a11y room
  62 15:21:05 <API> #info probably this year we will not have something like that
  63 15:21:20 <API> #info but it would be good to have some kind of accessibility talks,
  64 15:21:33 <API> #info in other rooms, like GNOME and so on
  65 15:22:00 <API> #info API is checking if he can go or no
  66 15:22:41 <API> #info lighning talks can be also an option
  67 15:23:06 <API> well, in fact there is no GNOME room, but a crossdesktop one
  68 15:23:08 <API> but this is the same
  69 15:23:13 <API> questions, doubts?
  70 15:23:22 <joanie> #info Joanie is thinking she will likely not go as she thinks she'll be attending an event prior to the hackfest, and being away from home for a month is a bit much in her opinion.
  71 15:23:45 <API> I forgot something
  72 15:24:01 <API> #info from cross-desktop info : "The deadline for submissions is December 20th 2011"
  73 15:24:13 <API> so any interested need to think on something quick
  74 15:24:52 <API> questions, doubts?
  75 15:24:59 <clown> date for FOSDEM itself?
  76 15:25:43 <clown> http://archive.fosdem.org/2011/
  77 15:25:54 <clown> looks like Feb 4-5, 2012.
  78 15:25:54 <joanie> #info FOSDEM will be from 4-5 February
  79 15:26:08 <API> clown, we are talking about fosdem 2012 :P
  80 15:26:22 <joanie> I'm not
  81 15:26:24 <joanie> :P
  82 15:26:39 <clown> ?  I wrote Feb 4-5 *2012*?
  83 15:26:44 <joanie> the url
  84 15:27:24 <clown> yes, weill "http://archive.fosdem.org/2012/", gives a 404  ;-P
  85 15:27:44 <joanie> #info http://fosdem.org/2012/ (for the record)
  86 15:29:14 <API> well, no questions
  87 15:29:16 <API> so lets move
  88 15:29:26 <API> #topic Hackfest Update
  89 15:29:40 <API> #info still not publicly announced but the dates and places are still the planned
  90 15:29:52 <API> #info the plan is create a general agenda and make the announcement
  91 15:30:22 <API> #info as Ryan Lortie is not coming, Benjamin Otte contacted another person to be the "DBUS expert" at the hackfest
  92 15:30:33 <API> #info announcement will be done soon
  93 15:31:10 <API> #info I also reported foundation about the planned hackfest, as Brian Cameron was asking for updates from teams
  94 15:31:24 <API> #info also reported that we discarded Brno
  95 15:31:56 <API> so, questions dobuts?
  96 15:31:58 <API> doubts?
  97 15:33:52 <joanie> donuts?
  98 15:34:05 <clown> fear, uncertainty?
  99 15:34:34 <API> well, it seems that  nobody has any doubts
 100 15:34:55 <API> so no problem if I make questions at the end of the meeting, right?
 101 15:34:59 <API> moving on
 102 15:35:10 <API> #topic Marketing and Fundraising
 103 15:35:20 <API> juanjo marin sent us a email
 104 15:35:31 * clown looks.
 105 15:35:34 <API> saying that today he will not be here
 106 15:35:44 <API> clown, a private :P
 107 15:35:52 * clown stops looking.
 108 15:35:57 <API> but in summary:
 109 15:36:23 <API> #info Karen sent a mail to gnome-marketing about FoG
 110 15:37:02 <API> #info the summary of that FoG is "Help to make 2012 the Year of Accessibility at GNOME"
 111 15:37:33 <API> #info jjmarin is also working on a testimonials page
 112 15:38:09 <API> well, instead of "summary" it is the "slogan" of that FoG, but I guess that you got the idea
 113 15:38:14 <API> questions, doubts?
 114 15:41:09 <joanie> not from me.
 115 15:42:27 <API> well, it seems that nobody has questions
 116 15:42:35 <API> I guess that this is because we are not too many people today
 117 15:42:35 <API> so
 118 15:42:42 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
 119 15:42:53 <API> someone has something to add not included on the agenda?
 120 15:43:05 <clown> yes, seeking advice.
 121 15:43:20 <clown> any glade experts among us?  Or, where do I find them?
 122 15:43:36 <clown> to make it concrete, here is a picture:
 123 15:43:38 <joanie> #info Seems that Ubuntu has decided to ship a custom blend of GNOME 3.4 and GNOME 3.2. We have been warned.
 124 15:43:46 * joanie listens to clown
 125 15:43:49 <clown> http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=203048
 126 15:44:07 <clown> the screen shot on the right is my dialog executing.
 127 15:44:25 <clown> the picture on the left is Allen Day's better layout, but done using GIMP.
 128 15:44:48 <joanie> how are you positioning your widgets?
 129 15:44:52 <clown> the task is to make the one on the left look more like the one on the right in terms of spacing, padding, etc.
 130 15:45:31 <clown> not sure how to answer that.  The largets container is a GtkBox (vertical).
 131 15:45:36 <clown> "largest"
 132 15:45:50 <joanie> are you packing the widgets in the GtkBox directly?
 133 15:45:56 <joanie> or are you using GtkAlignment's?
 134 15:46:02 <clown> some.
 135 15:46:06 <joanie> you should be using GtkAlignments I think
 136 15:46:21 <joanie> and can just adjust the alignment properties to get the spacing and padding you need
 137 15:46:23 <clown> the box has three GtkFrames, one for each major heading.
 138 15:46:24 <joanie> (in theory)
 139 15:46:56 <joanie> http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkAlignment.html
 140 15:47:02 <clown> the sliders/color on the bottom are a GtkGrid within a GtkAlignement.
 141 15:47:19 <clown> I'll read that!  Thanks.
 142 15:47:46 <joanie> were it me I'd put everything in alignments and keep tweaking values until they matched the pretty picture ;)
 143 15:47:50 <clown> hopefully those properties can be adjusted in glade.
 144 15:47:52 <joanie> fwiw I think yours is fine
 145 15:47:59 <joanie> clown: I think they can
 146 15:48:11 <joanie> but worst case you can hand-edit the xml
 147 15:48:25 <joanie> but I'm almost positive you can do it within glade itself
 148 15:49:01 <clown> been there, done that, but it's not always obvious which spacing, padding, alignment, whatever is the one that is most relevant.
 149 15:49:14 * API thinks that joseph one is fine, should be approved and committed, and the other stuff should be just future improvements/refinements ... just my humble opinion
 150 15:49:25 <joanie> +1 to API's opinion
 151 15:49:32 * clown thinks that API should go to the bug and say that.
 152 15:49:45 * clown also vote for the radio button version.
 153 15:49:58 <clown> radio button version:  http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/aegis/GS-Mag/ZoomOptionsRadiosV2.png
 154 15:50:02 <API> probably doing that will just add noise there
 155 15:50:02 <joanie> that accessibility options get blocked based on what looks pretty is just ludicrous in my opinion.
 156 15:50:17 <API> mostly taking into account how near are to be accepted
 157 15:50:38 <clown> and, it's holding up my working on brightness/contrast and focus-tracking.
 158 15:51:05 <joanie> clown: that comment might be worth making in the response to matthias' question re status of focus-tracking
 159 15:51:08 <joanie> ;)
 160 15:51:18 <joanie> or not. I could be a bad influence. ;)
 161 15:51:28 <clown> well, I was going to say something more general like "I have other tasks to complete first".
 162 15:52:02 * clown notes that other tasks include activities outside of gnome work.
 163 15:53:09 <joanie> clown: getting back to your original question. Give the GtkAlignment stuff a go and if you simply cannot make it happen/match, then ping me
 164 15:53:24 <joanie> I am not an expert, but I can usually bend GtkAlignments to my will. ;)
 165 15:53:41 <clown> joanie, cool.  it's pretty much the task for the day, so maybe we'll talk later.
 166 15:53:46 <joanie> sure thing!
 167 15:53:54 <clown> thanks a bunch!
 168 15:54:32 * clown realizes we are in the same time zone.
 169 15:54:34 <API> so, joanie you were saying something about ubuntu
 170 15:54:34 <mgorse> Is the hackfest definitively planned for January 18-22 now? Sorry--you probably answered that before I finally came in; just trying to figure out if I should go ahead and book a flight
 171 15:54:54 * joanie defers to mgorse's question first
 172 15:54:55 <API> mgorse, yes, current plan is that
 173 15:55:24 <API> the only stuff remaining is public announcement
 174 15:55:35 <API> we will do that as soon as we have a initial agenda
 175 15:55:40 <joanie> do we know for sure about travel committee?
 176 15:56:24 <joanie> or should we ping them before people start buying tickets?
 177 15:58:02 <API> joanie, good question
 178 15:58:11 <API> I have just sent a mail to shaun and german
 179 15:58:37 <API> mgorse, so for the moment, although those are the dates, lets wait for travel committee folks answer
 180 16:01:59 <API> so, it is 16:00 UTC now, so
 181 16:02:08 <API> a last question or doubt?
 182 16:02:30 <joanie> nope
 183 16:02:31 <clown> what does the ubuntu issue mean?
 184 16:02:44 <joanie> the ubuntu issue is merely a heads-up
 185 16:02:45 <clown> what is the downside of a blend of 3.2 and 3.4?
 186 16:02:55 <clown> other than things will be flakey :-)
 187 16:03:07 <joanie> it means users of ubuntu next gnome 3 are going to start reporting things not working as expected
 188 16:03:21 <clown> ok
 189 16:03:23 <joanie> and if we are not using ubuntu anywhere, we will have no clue what they are talking about
 190 16:03:36 <joanie> so I last night and today have set up a new machine with Ubuntu next
 191 16:03:59 <mgorse> It makes me wonder which components they'll upgrade. Ie, will AT-SPI 2.4 packages be used?
 192 16:04:01 <joanie> if you are a person/developer who might be getting "doesn't work in Ubuntu" reports like I am....
 193 16:04:09 <joanie> mgorse: damned if I know
 194 16:04:17 <mgorse> I should ask Luke
 195 16:04:17 <joanie> but it's worth pinging Luke
 196 16:04:27 <joanie> and apologies for my "potty mouth"
 197 16:05:38 <mgorse> That sounds kind of scary, though. I guess they're trying not to introduce new bugs with GNOME 3.4, but they might introduce new bugs with things not interoperating
 198 16:05:52 <joanie> yeah
 199 16:06:36 <joanie> I'm expecting all sorts of bumps and bruises. In fact, they have already begun.
 200 16:06:58 <joanie> fallback mode uses compiz. compiz task switcher selected gives no a11y events. wheeeee.
 201 16:07:37 <joanie> when the true mix of 3.2 and 3.4 kicks in.... things will only get more amusing.
 202 16:09:40 * joanie thinks the meeting is over, right?
 203 16:09:52 <API> yes, I think that it is a good moment
 204 16:09:56 <API> #endmeeting